Smokey did a lot of great things for the music of motown and nothing against him as an artist and two sides to a story.
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Smokey did a lot of great things for the music of motown and nothing against him as an artist and two sides to a story.
exactly!!!!!!
"Two sides to a story".
Sure if there's a source...
You know what? I'm starting to think most of the stuff we get from Motown books about supposed drama was only halfway true. You know what it reminds me of? There is this YouTuber called Karceno and he has a channel called Karceno4Life.
If you look at his channel, some of his videos remind you of what has been spewed here on Soulful Detroit the last 16 years!!!
And mainly on many Motown forums since 2002 at least.
Gladys Horton, AFAIK, has never talked smack about Smokey in public. When the Marvelettes' name came into play, she blamed not Gordy or Smokey but LARRY MARSHAK!
That's the only guilty party. Any attempt to shame BG and Smokey for it is really lame, honestly.
Weird dynamics in Soulful Detroit that folks just accept gossip. Marv and Fran, y'all know better than that. :rolleyes:
Folks here are easily persuaded to believe the worst out of the most successful Motown acts in some attempt to "humanize" them. It reminds me of Lipstick Alley's constant defaming of Marvin Gaye for example because of rumors that were never confirmed. So why would we even believe the stuff we hear about Smokey or Berry or Michael Jackson or Diana or Marvin or whatever when they're at best exaggerated.
When you repeat something that you weren't present for and present it as fact, it's gossip. And while I will certainly appreciate you posting word for word what Gladys supposedly said, I'd much rather have you source where this information is coming from. Is this a television program? A written article perhaps? Who, what and where would be greatly appreciated.
With you even saying Gladys "did not deserve the garbage she had to deal with", it tells me that your entire opinion about the subject is operating from a place where only Gladys' side of things matter. You claim to have Gladys' side, but how can you make an informed opinion about the situation if you don't also have Smokey's side? This I don't understand.
The verdict in this case still stands: rumor.
Like I said, folks rely on tea no matter how unsubstantiated it is because they wanna knock an icon down a peg. Since folks tried doing it to Diana, MJ and Marvin, now Smokey is next on the list. Just pathetic.
The problem for you is that it is not gossip. What I say actually happened. Unless preface something "I can imagine that...." or "In my opinion...." or" Wouldn't it be funny if that happened......." So, like I said, it is not critical that you believe anything that read here.
This should actually be required reading for anyone first joining the forum because it is 100 percent true. But what we see in the forum is just a mirror of what goes on in the real world. This Motown gossip aint no different than church gossip, school gossip, job gossip, even family gossip. Some folks get their lives spreading stuff about other people. What's the point? Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all taking issue with this supposed Gladys admission that she and Smoke had a problem. If we're discussing the downfall of the group and friction between Smokey and Gladys is mentioned as a possible element, it has to be allowed a part of the conversation. But when people start talking about it like they actually saw and heard it all go down when they surely didn't, it gets a bit creepy. Add to that the noise about Smokey gambling the name away when he so clearly didn't. Why in the world would anyone just take someone's word for something even after they were so clearly wrong about something else? Gladys' mouth wasn't no prayer book and neither is any of ours. If it can't be backed up then it has to be placed in the gossip pile.
Thanks Reese for reminding me about "He's A Good Guy[[Yes He Is)" one of my faves from that time, yes Smokey wrote & produced and Gladys did an exceptional job on lead. That record was big on Miami POP radio, I was surprised a few years later to find out it was not a big hit nationwide.
I have a feeling this Smokey stuff will die a quick death. They'll start on Stevie next, so get your popcorn ready. I'm guessing he said something mean and nasty to Mary Wilson and that's why "Bad Weather" tanked and the Supremes/Stevie project was abandoned.:rolleyes:
I just posted the interview where bill randle interviews gladys while she was in england in 92 she talks about gordy motown and smokey its in the thread titled gladys horton interview 1992 which was posted here interview 2011 listen for yourself in what she had t say.
Y'all didn't listen to what Marvin Gaye said:
"People say believe half of what you see, son, and none of what you hear..."
Y'all are fools for clinging on to a 1990s interview because Gladys HEARD what was going on. I bet when she finally investigated it [[prior to her getting sick) that that wasn't the case and it was just Larry's doing.
You're not doing Gladys justice thinking what she heard is "proof" Smokey was being dirty with a name that was in only Motown's and the Marvelettes members' control to begin with.
Nice try though. "Don't mess with Bill" indeed.
Wow,nice to see some passion for the marvelettes[my favorite girl group]now i ain't getting into the who said this or that,all that i'll say is that perhaps smokey chose wanda's voice because he liked the sweeter softer side of a woman's voice..he recorded mary wells softer side where as berry wanted her to be mable john,he choose david for[my girl]maybe because he heard something more mellow in his delivery as opposed to the great paul williams who while great sang with more sadness in his voice,just my humble opinion..marvelettes and motown forever!
Exactly Arr&Bee. But people wanna be about gossip... I'm just tired of it.
I mean if Smokey really hated Gladys, explain why he still produced songs that featured her on leads. Only difference was they weren't released as singles and Motown decided the Wanda leads were perfect for them at this point. It was a label decision after all!
Did you just compare a faith and belief in Christ to believing in, um, you? Yes I believe He was crucified and not only died on the cross but arose three days later. That's never a point I will argue with anyone. Ever. But I do not believe that you are my Lord and Savior, therefore I will refer you to the Bible to read what is written about [[a) putting one's trust in man, and [[b) gossiping. You are a gossiper. Whether you're actually making up stuff or repeating gossip you heard aint my business. But I know there is never a day when I will just blindly trust a word you say. And I would never ask you to do the same of me. That's the difference between you and I.
Btw, you don't ever want to bring Jesus into a back and forth with me. That's a very poor decision on your part and a dialogue you will not be able to match me in. Good day to you sir.
And yet you still can't say how you know it's true. We both know you weren't there- you've told us countless times that you were a mere babe in the 1960s, unless of course you're lying about that- so how can you say with such certainty that something is true? I get it if you say "well I heard Smokey insulted Gladys...". But when you say you "know", you're implying that you were a first person witness because only someone present actually knows what happened during any given event. Anything else is speculation. And speculation is fine but call it what it is. You keep trying to present speculation as fact and then want to not only cop an attitude but get blasphemous when people call you on it.
Look, I know you cannot be this stupid. What little I can and do share comes from first person witnesses as you call them. Fran asked what happened and I told her what happened and it was not for the reasons some keep throwing around here. Same thing with all that crap discussed about Berry Gordy and Jean Terrell. If you cannot take these little tastes, these little morsels of truth, I don't know what to tell you. Either you've lived a very sheltered life far different from mine or the people that came from Motown or you are just pretending to be overwhelmed so much that you just cannot believe these things happened. As I said, you cannot be this stupid. Quit playing!
How can a man born in the late '60s act like he knew that Gladys and Smokey were pulling hair?
That'll be like me, a mid-1980s baby and '90s child, claiming he knew Diana stood MJ up during their "fling" or whatever Lipstick Alley believes the next day...
Why didn't Smokey get a Motown Dearest book too? LOL
Two incidents that seem to come from gossip columns [[including Gladys Horton's own words) and we're supposed to believe William "Smokey" Robinson is a devil incarnate.
We got to exorcise Tony Turner from this forum.
He proved to me that he just likes to argue. I am not here for that. So unfortunately, I've had to now banish him to that netherworld of the "Ignored"! LOL! I really did not want to do that, but he left me no choice. He now joins my hall of fame of people that use to exist to me on the forum. LOL!!!
Why is he going on about religion now???
LOL
So as we all know I've been placed on Marv's ignore list. At first I was annoyed, not with Marv but at myself, because Marv ignored me before I could ignore him! Lol But then I thought this is a good thing. He has realized that he can't go toe to toe with me when he's talking nonsense. My words will shake him every time. So there's nothing for me to be annoyed about. I'm officially taking my blocked status as a compliment.
Now having said that, I will not allow his last words to me to stand alone without being addressed, whether he sneaks and reads it or not. Despite his accusation, I do not like to argue for arguments sake. What I do like to do is call people on their bullshit and Marv was talking bullshit. In a post somewhere above, he actually refuted my claim that he was spreading gossip by saying that what he says comes from what someone else told him. Even if you're an ally of Marv, you have to admit that this is just dumb and suggests that either he's an idiot [[which I don't believe is true) or he hopes that the people reading his words are idiots and don't know the difference between second hand gossip and first hand knowledge. I am not an idiot. I know the difference and as sure as I know that we're corresponding in the Motown forum of Soulful Detroit, I know that you can't claim first hand knowledge when the only knowledge you have is what someone else told you.
I'll wear my blocked status with pride. How does it look on me?:cool:
Yes Tom, that's exactly what it would be. Could you imagine Marv in court?
Lawyer: Marv, you're claiming today that Smokey Robinson insulted Gladys Horton, correct?
Marv: That is correct. He insulted her.
Lawyer: Do you know this to be fact?
Marv: Yes I do.
Lawyer: How?
Marv: Someone- I can't say who- told me.
Lawyer: Oh, so you don't know if this is true?
Marv: It's true.
Lawyer: But you don't know it's true.
Marv: Yes I do. Someone told me.
Lawyer: Objection. This is hearsay.
Marv: Look, no it isn't. I only tell facts and the fact is that someone- I can't say who- told me what Smokey said to Gladys. So I know all about it.
Lawyer: That's not first hand knowledge Marv.
Marv: Yes it is because I know first hand who told me. I can't say who.
Lawyer: Your honor I'm going home to kill myself, so no further questions for this witness.
Judge: Marv you may step down.
Marv: Mary Wilson rules!!!