Here's The Deans' 2nd release:
Attachment 17072
Printable View
Here's The Deans' 2nd release:
Attachment 17072
Here are The Commercials [[the secular group name for singers from one of HOB's former Gospel groups, singing a popular Gospel song, with new, secular lyrics. Notice that Starmaker had its label changed in both colour and style for EACH new record:
Attachment 17073
Some nice pics up there.
Great to read about your background Robb and it's good that you're able to recall so much [[and pass it on to folks here). You mention that "many of the remaining unused cuts we had planned to be in our 10-LP series, were used in Motown's 25th Anniversary LP series". I know, for example, that I have The Temptations and DRATS 25 Annuversary CD sets, which other albums had the unreleased songs on?
There was a fair bit of unreleased stuff on Mary Wells "Looking Back" Vandellas "Live Wire" are they part of that?
Attachment 17094
Probably a few cuts on each. There was never an all-encompassing effort to use the results ALL of our research in any re-release project. And after Tom and I left, other Motown staff worked on looking through The Vault for unreleased material other than what we recommended. But, however it was done, eventually they released ALL we had slated for the 10 LPs. Many of them on those stray LPs in the early 1980s and The 25th Anniversary LP Series, and many of the remaining cuts on CDs, and finally most of the rest on the year, by year digital file releases, except those recordings of Jobete music songs that were demos and proof of song ownership acetates that can't be proven to have been sung by singers who had performer contracts with Motown at the time their recording was made.
There were Motown 25th Anniversary LPs for many of Motown's individual artists and groups. Virtually all of them had previously unreleased cuts on them as a bonus, in addition to their well-known songs. Some of those were songs we had slated for "From The Vaults", and others were not. But, together, The 25th Anniversary LPs made a decent dent in the remaining cuts we slated that hadn't been released on our one 1979 released LP, and the 1981 and 1982 Vault-related LPs.
I remember The Temptations, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Tammie Terrell, The Four Tops, The Supremes, The Spinners, Brenda Holloway, Martha and The Vandellas, Jimmy Ruffin, - really, almost all the major and second-tier artists and groups for whom a 25th Anniversary LP was made, had one or two of our slated songs.
Some examples of that are:
"Tear's, Nobody, and a Smile" by The Serenaders [[who DID sign a performance contract and had a release, but it can't be proven that that demo was made after the signing);
"I Misjudged You" by The Parliaments [[who were NEVER signed to a performers' contract-as far as anyone knows-despite Raynoma Gordy having been said to have promised them she would facilitate that happening)
"Baby, Don't Leave" by Edward Earling - [[not known to have been signed)
Attachment 17096
Yes. I was referring to all the LPs released around the time of the official 25th Year Anniversary, not just those that have "Motown's 25th Year Anniversary" written on the jacket front cover. All the anthology-type LPs released around that time were specifically related to the celebration event; and most had at least a few previously unreleased recordings on them. Why else would Berry Gordy allow a Mary Wells LP to come out, if not for that 25 year celebration, looking back on Motown's history, and what got them to that point of Worldwide fame?
Had to be something different as what came immediately to mind were the 25th LPs/CDs which I thought were nothing remarkable so had to do an immediate re-take. These ones:
Attachment 17169
We've been so fortunate to get all the unreleased material that has come out, the big packages and the tracks that have sneaked on to various CD releases. In fact it's been hard to keep up lol. To have worked on a lot of that stuff must've been a great experience but frustrating as well knowing how good much of it was but not able to immediately get it released.
Given the number of "out of copyright" releases that came out a couple of years ago, I wonder whether there may have been a HOB set. Will have to have a look.
I picked up the From The Vaults LP when it was reissued in 1981 so while the album flopped when it first came out in 1979, they thought enough of the album reissue it. I knew someone that had the original album and when I heard it I was amazed that Motown had great songs from the '60s that were not released at the time [[and as we know, this was just the Tip Of The Iceberg for the Motown Vaults). So, thank you Robb K. for your hard work & knowledge.
Highly doubtful that you will find a HOB set, in fact, you are being presented with more information on the secret label than anyone has ever seen before.
I have Dave Rimmers Detroit discography book; as well as the Motown Encyclopedia and Carmen or the HOB label is completely absent from it. Thank you Robb for the information that you have given to us.
Sure is great having Robb's knowledge on the Forum. Amazing stuff.
Attachment 17223
Some years ago, our own, Ron Murphy, was working on getting a CD series on all Mrs. Murphy's labels together. There was some delay in finding the proper rights owner, and then he got sick, and unfortunately he died. And none of us, who were involved had the time to pursue that project. I have no idea who the rights owners are, as Ron was handling that alone.
Unfortunately, I don't have the time now, or the ability to spend time in The Detroit Area; and, indeed, I'm wondering when or even IF I'll even be able to return home, or if I'll risk sitting in an airport waiting room or in the confined space of an airplane ever again, or ever schedule another seminar. There were a couple other people on this forum interested in this project, including Ralph. They were all Detroiters. But I don't remember if they all still lived in Southeastern Michigan, and I think they were all as old as I am. So, I don't know if any of them would have any interest in pursuing that project now. But, with The current Corona Virus situation, it's not a good time to try to get things moving in that direction.
By the way, I have about 10 more House of Beauty Gospel records from that label's pre-Scepter ownership period I could have scanned on this thread, but I didn't want to clutter it up with way too many graphics. It's already eating up too much of the available band width.
We had so many threads like this on the old SDF that were lost when Lowell had to change platforms. Ralph had put them all in a "Classic Threads" section of The SDF Archives. But I can't find it. Remember, we had "Pre-Motown Gordy Productions", "Off-Motown Detroit Soul Labels", "New York Jobete Music Office Productions", "Los Angeles Jobete Music Office Productions", "Detroit Gospel", "'50s Detroit R&B", Individual label threads like "Thelma", "Ed Wingate labels[[Golden World/Ric Tic/Wingate)", "Fortune", "Solid Hitbound[[Revilot/Groovesville/Solid Hit)", "Correc-Tone", and many more similar style ongoing many months threads filled with label scans and discussion of their histories. Luckily, a lot of the latter were duplicated in Graham Finch's and others' Detroit label webisodes, still in existence on SDF.
Attachment 17224
Definitely let us know if you find anything. I'll be very curious to know that, and possibly approach the producer to see if I can help with any additional release related to that project. I would be willing to provide 45s for re-mastering for any whose master tapes can't be found, as well as providing label scans, and writing CD booklet artist/producer bios and record and label historical information. Maybe Ace/Kent would be interested. I'm actually surprised they haven't done one yet, as it would be right up their alley. But, maybe that means they already looked into it, but no one can locate the rights owners, and the master tapes are all lost?
Attachment 17225
I just remembered another unreleased recording gem for which no documentation could be found that the singers were currently under contract with Motown as recording artists at the time the recording was made: The Doo-Wop style song, "All I Have Left Are Memories" from late 1963, by Sammy Turner, backed by The Serenaders [[all of whom were eventually signed to artist contracts with Motown for their releases on Motown and V.I.P., but because no documentation exists to confirm that they were signed before those proof of song ownership acetates were made, the owners of Motown's rights can't use them commercially. That is unfortunate, as I am convinced that these artists WERE under contract at that time, and the recordings are so great. Luckily, "Tears, Nobody, and a Smile" by The Serenaders has been released on CD [[maybe by the current holders of George Kerr's or Sidney Barnes', or both's rights), so, I wonder why the Sammy Turner wasn't [[as it was also a Kerr-Barnes production).
Here's "Tears":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IMeter4RSU
Robb, thanks for posting this really nice song. I really love If Your Heart Says Yes, the first VIP 45 release #25002. It's a shame the Serenaders were not more successful in life.
Attachment 17281
I met Mary Wells. Our Airwave Records talked with her about recording for us [[although, unfortunately, that never happened). Stevie Wonder recorded for us [[not singing, but he played harmonica on one of Freddie Gorman's recordings. I met Bob Kayli [[Robert Gordy), head of Jobete Music. I met Brenda Holloway, and Mary Love. I met Gloria Jones [[who was a good friend of one of our fellow owners of Airwave Records), Mickey Stevenson [[of The Lovetones/Love-Tones, and Mello-Dees), Freddie Gorman, who recorded for us. I met Don Davis [[who was an ad-hoc session guitarist and songwriter at Tamla in their first 3 years. We also recorded Mel Carter [[not a Motown artist, of course). I also met Dee Dee Warwick, who was also a good friend of our same partner. I've met Bunky Sheppard, and a lot of other Chicago artists and producers including Bo Diddley, Richard Pegue, and several others. I met some other Motowners in the office building, just saying hello. I can't remember all of them. It doesn't matter because that amounted to nothing that matters, any more than meeting and greeting anyone else. Iris Gordy was head of our projects. But, we've had lots of people on this website who worked at Motown in Detroit during the '60s, and met, and worked with all the big singing stars. Ralph Terrana for one. Mike McLean, Bob Ohlsson, Dennis Coffey, Bob Babbit, Clay MacMurray. They could still, or could have [[while they were still around) told us some interesting stories.
Blimey there's so much good stuff going on here it's hard to keep up. So many names for whom I recognise a Motown connection but obviously have a much wider history and recording career - it is fascinating.
Sammy Turner seems to have been a prolific recorder of covers of well known songs. He also has at least one record produced by Phil Spector which is really good. He didn't have much on Motown but plenty of other recordings - Marginal Records [[Belgian Bootlegs) produced a CD in 1995 "The Complete Story" plus there's a CD of out of copyright stuff on the Jasmine label.
Herman Griffin keeps cropping up what with the Motown and HOB material plus singles like "Mr Heartbreak"/"Never Trust Your Girl Friend" on Double L. Both written by Robert Bateman, the latter with William Stevenson and a Jobete BMI song. His "True Love"/"It's You" was released on Tamla but also on Columbia [[US). His Anna recordings are available via out of copyright releases. He did also record later for Ian Levine.
Again not much Motown from The Serenaders [[in fact not much of anything), but one of their unreleased Motown tracks appeared on ACE records "Satisfaction Guaranteed" release this was "Say, Say, Baby".
Obviously none of this is new to any of you guys but a voyage of discovery for the likes of me and a good way to listen to their tracks in more context.
Robb
One of the best threads ever!
So much is owed to Jack Surrell and Carmen Murphy, it was Jack that convinced Carmen Murphy to set up the HOB record studio in her Detroit Hair Parlour shop basement, if that had not happened it makes you wonder as to what direction Mike Hanks & Berry Gordy might have gone!
Heres the Link to Jack Surrell's HOB 45 record, arranged by "Mickey Stevenson & Johnny Allen"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHdBuE_S-88
...the beautiful... All I Have Left Are Memories ...by Sammy Turner ...was officially released for the first time only last year ...on the 2CD set ...Cellarful Of Motown Volume 5...!
https://www.discogs.com/Various-A-Ce...lease/15932544
...you can hear it here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yKGe6gGiUg
Grape :)
Attachment 19111
We used to have a LOT of threads like this[[actually much better) including old photos of artists and venues, radio play lists, and tonnes of scans of old, obscure records, regularly, back from our start in 2001 to about 2012 or so. Back then, former record masterer and producer, and label-owner, Ron Murphy, Ralph and even Russ [[a little bit), Dennis Coffey, Bob Ohlson, Bob Babbitt, Ray Monette, Mike McLean, Spyder Turner, Clay MacMurray, Lorraine Chandler, Frances Nero, Lyn Paul, StuBass, The Kount, etc., and so many more Motown Musicians, singers, and producers, and other people from Detroit's music industry, and several collectors of 1960s Detroit Soul Music all used to post here regularly. It's a tragic shame that almost all the "Classic Threads" [[like this-but much better because there were 10-15 knowledgeable old-timers posting on such threads rather than just one or two), were lost in 2010, when Lowell had to change the website's platform over to a new, more powerful platform.
I did attempt to re-create a few of those Classical SDF historical/informational-type threads that were lost, and they are good, but only a shadow of what those original threads were, because a lot of the posters who had contributed to the original threads were no longer posting on SDF, or they didn't have the time, anymore, to scan and post hundreds of record label scans and photographs, and spend hours typing.
But we DO still have a few of the replacement threads which are pretty good in their own right:
1. Pre-Motown Berry Gordy-related record productions
2. L.A. Jobete Music [[Motown) office productions and related released records
3. New York Jobete Music [[Motown) office productions and related released records
4. The "Chicago Sound"
There are probably a few more.
Attachment 19112
Thanks Grape!!! I've been waiting to see this released by Motown since I discovered it in 1974. We had it slated for inclusion in one of the 2nd batch of "From The Vaults" LPs. After 47 years!!1 Finally!!! It happened while I'm still alive. Maybe there's hope for the Edward Earling cuts! I've found out recently [[within the last 5 years) that Edward was one of the lead singers [[the good one) of The Morrocco Muzik Makers. I still think that The Serenaders recorded "Tears, Nobody and A Smile for Motown WHILE under contract for Motown, and they should have been able to release it. But, at least it got released.
Attachment 19113
I move that we make a lot of new threads with the same spirit of inquiry as this one. So, you youngsters, fire away your questions about the old days before we Oldies pass on, and can no longer answer them.
P.S. I would have liked to have seen Ralph comment on this.
Attachment 19114
Well, their artistic leader, co-lead singer, songwriter, and main producer, George Kerr, was very successful, and so was his main co-writer and co-producer, Sidney Barnes. And their other main lead singer Timothy [[Tiny Tim) Wilson, had a pretty good career, too. So, that's 3 out of the 5 main group members. So, that's not bad.
Attachment 19115
Here's my favourite Serenaders' song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmcJ4iaxOds
Attachment 19116
Here's an unreleased cut by The Serenaders recorded in 1963 for Riverside Records. They should have had this on the flip of "Two Lovers Make One Fool" - it would have quickly become the "A" Side!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14BNaFs77p4
Attachment 19117
I've been dragging this thread off-topic. So here's a HOB production - Angry Angel by The Caravelles [[led by Harry [[AKA Lee) Gates [[Who was also the lead singer of Detroit's first Dramatics group, recorded by Motown's Joe Hunter):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V0BKH_1CCg
Attachment 19118
Here's The Glows led by a familiar voice I can't seem to place. But I know I have other records with a group that recorded a fair amount of records with that same voice on lead, but can't remember their group name nor his name:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFjqlhmPcVY
Attachment 19121
Here's the most haunting version of "Willow Weep For Me" I've ever heard out of hundreds of versions, led by a very young Roger Craton [[AKA Lee Rogers):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpP_SsBkWes
A bit more soulful than Chad & Jeremy's, eh???
Attachment 19122
Here's Beth Bynum singing "I'll St You Free" [[Written by Mike Hanks and Carmen Murphy-as an answer song to Ray Charles' "Set Me Free":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FRgBH11UF0
A good job, too!
Attachment 19123
Here's Herman Griffin and The Rayber Voices singing "I'm So Glad I Learned To Do The Cha Cha":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2inWgwBlBtc
It was NOT the first record Gordy published with Jobete Music. It was the second. The first was the Wade Jones record on RayBer Records [[1001) which was recorded in late 1958, and released early in 1959, while this record was released later in 1959.
Attachment 19124
Here's Freddy Butler singing "I Told You So" - his first record:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGAtyjz5WlQ
Attachment 19125
Here are The Deans singing "Lady of The Caravan" and "Chills, Chills, Chills:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJSIVg9MpcY
Attachment 19126
Is that how they list it now at BMI. I've seen hundreds of copies of the record, and EVERY one listed Jobete Music on both sides. And, actually, The Wade Jones RayBer 1001 record may have been first put out in late 1958. But it didn't sell. Then Berry had Robert West's B&H Distributors take over in early 1959. It's difficult to know which was first because there wasn't any official release date for the RayBer record. I've seen both a late '58 and early '59 release date for Griffin's HOB record. I've actually read a quote tonight that said it was a December, 1959 release [[but that's too late).
Attachment 19127
Here's The Meditations singing "One More River To Cross":https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXTYA1zhoec
Check out https://www.45cat.com/label/hob/2
Attachment 19130
Thanks. Very interesting what I never noticed before, were white DJ issues of The
Peppermints' "Believe Me", and The Herman Griffin record. I had never seen either before. And they don't say, "DJ issue, not for sale".
Attachment 21180
Our member and personal friend of several of us, Ron Murphy, had made new master recordings for several of the candidate cuts, I had loaned him some of my records for that project, as well as providing several label scans. He was still looking for someone to take on the projects financing, of CD manufacturing and distribution when he died several years ago. Nothing has happened with that project since. I wonder if Ralph knows anything about what happened to Ron's recordings and any written material he had prepared for it? I've heard nothing about it since Ron's passing.
Guess I should have checked for old posts on H.O.B. and SOUL before posting my latest question. As always, the SDF family have the answers.