One of the Supremes best early recordings has been given an extended work out here. Written by Berry Gordy with Mary Wilson on lead and Florence Ballard, Diane Ross and Barbara Martin on background:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm1XIHJ7CYU
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One of the Supremes best early recordings has been given an extended work out here. Written by Berry Gordy with Mary Wilson on lead and Florence Ballard, Diane Ross and Barbara Martin on background:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm1XIHJ7CYU
What a great performance by Mary. She sings the heck out of this...soooo soulful.
This proof that she was never a "background singer" in terms of her true abilities!Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
It is amazing to me when I think of the fact they recorded this while Kennedy was the President. Wow!
Thanks was thinking same thing Marv about Mary’s talent.
This is a knock-out performance that showcases Mary’s niche perfectly. It also makes her case for why Yhe Supremes/Primettes were a triple threat live. It’s not what Gordy was looking for commercially, but I think he missed the boat on her not giving her a spot earlier than 1966 People. This song would have had more radio appeal than the first 3 Supremes singles.
While I understood the rationale behind having Diane as lead consistently on the singles, I could never understand why Florence and Mary were so pitiably under-utilized in live performance and on non-hit album tracks. Diane’s voice was perfect for the crossover appeal which Gordy was aiming for, and that just makes good business sense. Showcasing Flo and Mary to a greater extent would not have hampered Diane’s rise to superstardom at all, and would have generated greater appreciation of the group as a whole, since both Flo and Mary had ardent fans, and could handle other material not suited to Diane. It would have been a win-win for everyone, in my opinion. [[But what do I know about showbiz?)
IF Flo and Mary had such ardent fans where were they when Flo's solo singles and Mary's Motown album were released? Ardent fans are ardent forever.. the solo projects didn't make any noise whatsoever and the ardent fans knew they'd been released..
now continue with the coulda/woulda/ shoulda party..
Are we going down this road again?
i think this is a perfectly fine lead from Mary, at the time. i don't think it's an amazing record though. there's a lot of development needed by mary on phrasing and lyrics. but i do realize she was 16 or so at the time.
my fav Mary lead [[or at least one of) is the partial lead we have on The Christmas Song. her phrasing there is glorious and definitely shows off her talent. and i believe that was only a demo.
and probably my fav mary lead live is her Don't Let My Teardrops Bother You on Mike Douglas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXJ-BSAY1vw
but many of her other leads were just fine IMO. a perfectly nice lead song in a show but nothing sensational and nothing that highlighted that she had somehow been unjustly robbed of a solo career
This is one of my favorites from the early Supremes [[along with The Tears [[my favorite),Your Heart Belongs To Me & Buttered Popcorn). Mary sounds more accomplished and mature than Diana or Florence in those first recordings. Diana Ross was the best choice for lead on the hits but Mary and Flo should have had more leads on the albums.
^completely agree. and in the shows too. imagine if the Millie/Rose/Mame medley was a three-way lead shared by the girls. each one assuming a different character
all three were talented and all three needed coaching and opportunity to grow and mature. clearly Diana was afforded this in the studio. it's too bad Flo and Mary weren't
boy oh boy.. Levi never heard any of this jive..nor did Smokey.. orGladys Knight..or Martha.. etc.. Ross was the LEAD SINGER..still is..ALWAYS will be!! HAPPY HOLIDAYS!![[DAZE)
It had nothing to do with hampering Diana’s career at all, how could it? It had everything to do with Berry Gordy didn’t dare for their voices. Period. He didn’t want what they had to offer exposed to Supremes audiences who cane because of Miss Ross’ voice. So, it wouldn’t have been win-win for him. It’s too bad, but Flo was very amateurish on People but Mary nailed the end. His decision to only use Ross was way before he was thinking superstardom for her. He just didn’t see anything extraordinary in there voices and, frankly, it seems, neither did anyone else. I would have lived more Flo solos personally but I see his point.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl
BigAl you said it perfectly. Rarely if ever has a singing group had such talent in all it’s memebers and I do believe that’s why they were Supreme!
Mary was pure voice and has returned to that over the years. Their harmonies were perfection and Motown destroyed that.Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Oh Lord..........let it go. Hehehehehehehe.Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
Agree 100 percent. Diana was going to be Diana no matter what. And Gordy was smart to hitch himself to her. He would've been smarter though had it put all three girls in a position to leave the group to greater success. Neither Flo nor Mary were going to be superstars. That takes a certain kind of je ne sais quoi and determination that I feel Flo and Mary lacked. Diana was destined for it. But solid hit makers- and in the case of Florence, a movie star- both girls would've been. But Gordy had tunnel vision. He was locked in on one thing and he couldn't see anything else. The Supremes were a triple threat, and IMO that's really one of the BIG differences between them and the rest of the female groups at Motown, maybe even the whole industry. Even as "background" singers, Flo and Mary gave off so much personality that there was no way even the great Gordy and his shenanigans could get people to forget about them during a performance. He could've spun them off into loads of money and instead he pushed two aside and focused on one. He got good money out of the one but even that he botched more often than not. Berry Gordy gets more credit for his "genius" than he should, to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl
I'm not a fan of "Baby Don't Go", but Mary's lead is good. I'm more impressed with what she did on "The Tears". Like most singers, Mary needed songs that were tailored to her talent. There are very few singers [[Aretha and Marvin come to mind) who can probably sing any song and make it sound good. Diana Ross can sing just about any genre of song, but she clearly needed songs tailored to her talent. Florence too. Those doowoppy songs were perfect for Mary. I like "Save Me a Star" and "Heavenly Father", but I honestly think Mary would've been better suited to them. "Come and Get These Memories" was a horrible choice for Mary to lead. Flo should've had that one. But Mary sounds wonderful on her part of "People". Makes me wonder what she might have sounded like singing the whole thing. The 70s is where Mary started to really step into her vocal abilities, and that came with her singing more leads. Her lead on "Can't Take My Eyes Off of You" from the Japan live album shows a woman who has definitely grown vocally. And "Teardrops", both studio and live, are further evidence that Mary had the goods, she just needed label support and being matched with producers who knew what to do with her. Her first solo album was not it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
The fact that Mary progressed the way she did in the 70s makes me wonder how much better Flo would've been had she stayed the course of a solo career. Who would Florence Ballard, vocalist, be in the 1970s? That would've been an interesting experience.
most of Flo's leads are only so-so for me. partially cuz the songs really are sort of crap. Buttered Popcorn is probably the most ridiculous thing released or recorded by the girls. flo does an ok job with making it soulful and all but it's a worthless song. sure i listen to it because it's fun as a sup fan. but i do recognize that it's schlock
heavenly father is ok. Save me a star too. but neither are special. I'd LOVE to hear Flo do lead on Let Me Go Right Way. now that song is much stronger than these other ones. You Bring Back Memories could have worked well for Flo too.
interesting idea about Flo doing Memories. i'm not sure though i hear it. mary does an adequate job with it. but this is a prime example of how uninspiring she could be on lead. it's just sort of right there in the middle. she's doesn't seem to be interpreting the lyrics or telling the story of the song. just singing words.
on A Go Go i'd like to have heard flo on Money. or on Boots. on Sloopy, i wish F and M did something more in the background. that is one of the most boring renditions of that song. why didn't anyone do an ad lib or add some fire?!?!
they were filling an album to cash in on the latest singles; it was actually called 'filler'back then
oh i know they were never going to do much more with the songs than pad out an album. still they could have put at least a modicum of effort into the recordings. on both Money and Sloopy M and F are practically sleepwalking their way through their parts. imagine if M and F channeled a bit of their "let me go the right way" backgrounds here.
I'm not saying the M and F are at fault here either. perhaps the producers instructed them to keep it more simple.
Nobody listens to "Buttered Popcorn" because of the lyrics. Lol It's a silly song, typical of the novelty records of the time. But Flo really gets into it and the band is cutting up. I do think with more of a push the song might've been their first hit, even a moderate one. It actually made some noise in a couple of regions outside of Detroit. Might've been interesting to see what direction the group would have gone in that event. But I agree about those early songs that were given to Flo, aside from Popcorn, they were on the boring side. "Right Way" and "You Bring Back Memories" were certainly more suited to Flo than "Star" and "Heavenly".Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
You point out exactly what I find wrong with "Come and Get These Memories". Mary doesn't sound like someone who can't sing, just sounds lifeless. Compare that to the original and there's no contest in who appears to be feeling it. I think Florence would've got into it, even competitively, knowing she'd have to bring her A game to a Martha Reeves song. Mary sounds like she brought her U game instead.:p But compare that lifeless reading with her more spirited vocal within the next year on "Davy Crockett" or even her beautiful rendition of "Our Day Will Come" a year before and you realize Mary was more capable than she sometimes put forth.
A Go Go had a couple of songs that would've been right for Florence, namely "Boots". As for "Sloopy", honestly I think the song should've been shelved and something better put in it's place. The one redeeming quality it has is that Diana does a really good vocal on it. Surprisingly I don't really think Flo and Mary are boring on it, not like they are on "I Can't Help Myself" and "Money" and some of the unreleased cuts from the session.
I believe in another thread [[perhaps one about A Go Go expanded?) I mentioned my problem with some of the songs were these lifeless backing vocals. To be fair, it's possible that some of the ones that went unreleased were never a finished product. Maybe HDH [[or whoever) intended to bring the girls back to do another vocal take. But that doesn't explain how some of those lifeless backgrounds made it onto the actual album. For that I do blame the producers. For whatever reason they wanted/allowed Flo and Mary to do a sub par job at this point. Take some of those boring backgrounds and compare them to songs cut during the same time period like "I'll Turn to Stone", "I Guess I'll Always Love You" and "You Keep Me Hangin On". It's hard for me to blame Flo and Mary for this. I'm laying this at the feet of the producers.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan