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I have been listening to the Jean albums a lot lately. I rarely ever listen past Rodgers and Hart but have branching out more into the 70s grouping. I'm sure this has been discussed before but do you think Jean would have sounded good on the Scherrie material? I can particularly hear Jean doing High Energy well.
great questionQuote:
Originally Posted by floyjoy678
and i don't know
IMO the material on MS&S was specifically crafte for that lineup. after the success of Walking, the Hollands developed Wheel, LYG and other tunes. and given the talents of Susaye, they crafted Come Into My Life and things. so could jean have done that album? maybe but it was really a Scherrie project
as for the HE project - i think so. i can hear her and Mary doing You're What's Missing as a duet, especially given how the group did several M/J duets.
for Sup 75, the Ivey Woodford material has a lightness/popness to them that sort of harkens back to the Diana era. songs like You Can't Stop A Girl and Sha La are excellent updates on the girl group sound of the 60s. Scherrie had a powerful voice but IMO she was easier to adapt the lighter pop sound of Diana on a tune like Baby Love. Scherrie also held true to melodies more than jean.
As much as I love Jean's sound, no. That album needed a deeper voice oriented toward the emerging disco sound. Jean was neither of those at the time. Scherrie did Scherrie songs superbly just as Jean did Jean songs superbly. Of course there are songs that they were given that weren't great for one reason or another [[always an exception the to rule), but in general, I have a hard time imagining one lead singer interchanging songs with another, from Diana through Jean and onto Scherrie. That's why I don't much like the 60s medley by the 70s groupings.Quote:
Originally Posted by floyjoy678
I'm with you, Thanxal. Scherrie was great with dance material. She could breath life into the most dreary lyric or song. I personally think Scherrie is the best singer to ever have recorded with the Supremes.
It's hard to say. Music had changed so much from 1970 to 1976.
Scherrie's voice had a playful quality to it. I never got that from Jean. so songs like He's My Man, Walking, Can't stop a girl, wouldn't have fit Jean
i do think Jean would have been wildly amazing on a number like This Is Why. not that it's a great song or that jean singing it would have made it better. but i think she would have handled the material well
from the HE album, maybe jean would have done well with You Keep Me Movin' On. I'm not sure though about Only You. the title track HE though required a seductive tone. again, not something i'm thinking is a great fit for Jean
I agree, Supsy
I know the lineup changes are often a knock on the 70s groupings, but this is part of the beauty of them - Jean and Scherrie were different vocalists for different times and sounds. As much as I think she's one of the greatest singers to ever grace the group, I don't think Jean would have ushered in The Supremes to the demands of disco as well as Scherrie did. Now, High Energy, that would have likely sounded good with Jean on lead, however I'm not sure if she would have been comfortable doing anything faster. Even Jean's own solo album, released when disco was an even bigger force, didn't really contain anything that matched the energy of the later Supremes singles.
Now, hypothetically, if Jean had stuck with the group and perhaps they ended up going in a more Philly soul/Philly disco direction, or if they ended up working with someone like Van McCoy, either of those possibilities might have been better suited for a singer like Jean.
Jean Terrell a disco diva?? its laughable.
Come to think of it, I'd have said the same for Diana Ross
I guess I'm in the minority here, I think Jean would have handled the Scherrie songs very well. The Supreme sound was changing I could hear Jean rocking I'm Let My Hear Do The Walking she was amazing on Bad Weather & Tossin and Turnin. Yeah Jean could handle the Scherrie stuffQuote:
Originally Posted by telekin
Jean was an excellent singer but she would not have worked as well on the songs on HE. The harmonies of Mary, Scherrie and Cindy could not be beat. The addition of Susaye gave the group another dimension. Jean's approach to Bad Weather shows her approach would have been somewhat at odds with the material. Scherrie made the disco songs soar. Susaye had so much to add with her adlibs and vocals. Mary was really getting confidence in her vocals. Jean could do it but would have had the energy of Scherrie or Susaye? I personally feel she would not.
I have a hard time hearing Jean replace Scherrie on these vocals. Jean is a more distinctive vocalist than Scherrie - but Scherrie has a fuller bodied sound and I struggle to replace the Scherrie vocals. There are a lot of singers around with a Scherrie type sound but there are many fewer Jean style vocalists - but I think the sound would have been so much less full with Jean.
I know this is hijacking this thread - but why was Mary Scherrie and Susaye such a poor seller - I don’t believe it even made the Top 200 on Billboard.
The two women’s voices being so different in sound and style i would have to say a resounding no.
A more comfortable fit would have been Jean singing Susaye’s material. Her voice had a narrower range, but a little closer in sound then Scherrie. She would have been great on “He Ain’t Heavy”
What a dynamic combination Mary, Jean & Scherrie might have made.
If you listen to the voices in each incarnation there are slight resemblances in each to the original trio. Of course, Mary was there from start to finish so her role was her own. Diana had the high distinct voice, Jean had a different high distinct voice and Susaye had her own high distinct voice with her multi range octaves. Florence was the powerhouse vocalist, Lynda also had a great deal of power to her voice, Scherrie being lead singer had a powerful voice much like Florence but she had more control in her voice-it seems to me her voice represents what Flo might have sounded like had she been the lead and was given attention to develop her craft better. Only Cindy's sweet soprano is different as it wasn't the powerhouse of Flo that she replaced but she & Mary managed to blend visually and vocally while Motown worked to make Diana the center of attraction.
I think MSS was one of the best LPs the group ever had with 3 strong lead vocalists, but it didn't have a single to pull anyone in-Driving Wheel had such a different sound than IGLMHDTW did that it just didn't capitalize on that sound and momentum. HE was a very lush LP with a great single to pull you in. The illustration on the cover represented the group without showing faces that the general public may not know outside of Mary. The cover of MSS was beautiful but the type of The Supremes and Mary, Scherrie & Susaye seemed to blend in to the photo. Plus, many may not know any of the last trio outside of Mary. Motown did push it in the trade publications but perhaps had there been a big plan to follow up the success of HE it ended up getting lost. People really did not know who they were anymore outside of fans and disco enthusiasts.
possibly a few reasons. the album was released in mid to late Oct 76. in early Dec 76 they had their terrible run at Caesar's Palace, where Mary announced she was leaving the group. at that point there was 0 reason to do any promotion for the groupQuote:
Originally Posted by jobeterob
another issue IMO was the chaotic approach to the release of the dance singles. with HE and Walking, all of the emphasis was on Walking. yes HE and the album appeared on the disco charts at times but everyone was focused on that 1 song. that helped coalesce attention to it and unified that djs and clubs to playing it.
with MS&S, Wheel was the first official single but different markets had different songs quickly climbing their dance charts. In some markets it was Wheel and LYG. in others it was LYG and Love i never knew. some focused on LYG and Don't wanna be tied down. some did Wheel, LYG and Love i never knew. frankly IMO LYG was the better song to go with. there should have been a focused effort on that 1 song so that the group's reputation and sales would also be focused. then after success in the discos, the song could hopefully make the leap to the pop market
Although i have always loved the album, it was perhaps a little overly r&b orientated for what the public expected from the Supremes. A lighter sound might have proved more popular in the vein of “IGLMHDTW”.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
I’m sure if Mary could have convinced Diana to be a guest vocalist on one of the songs, the album would have garnered far more media attention and interest. I’m guessing the two women were on reasonable terms at that point.
it's definitely a more experimental album than HE. Sweet Dream Machine, Come Into My Life, We Should Be Closer and Don't Wanna Be Tied Down are all amazing tunes that really push the group. SDM is just a spectacular tune, allowing each woman a bit of the lead. Come Into My Life should be a hot mess but given Susaye's totally unique voice and talents, the Hollands have created this icy other-world full of synthesizer effects and fade in and out of her vocals, her kittenish, pouty delivery of some pretty mature lyrics. just an amazing and entrancing tune. then the excellent duet with Susaye and Mary. their voices just perfectly in tune on those octaves where they're singing together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
plus you have 3 tried and true disco smashes and a thick, lush ballad.
IMO Mary shone brightest within a group setting. i feel leaving the group was a major mistake even though it was clearly a crazy mess at the time. had there been a more logical or orderly approach to the promotional aspects of MS&S, if they'd doubled down on LYG as the follow up to Walking and had Mary not announced her departure, things might have been different
plus the whole pedro issue - we know that Berry asked that Motown manage the group again. and i'm not so blind to assume that motown would then instantly take the group back to their 1966 stellar status. I think Bayou has mentioned on here that motown was rather late to the whole disco game. and with Walking being a smash at discos and with the gay and r&b clubs, i think he stated that motown was like "hey maybe the Sups can be our disco group" so perhaps there might have been some degree of support. but we know the chaos within the group and with pedro wouldn't have allowed this
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the reason I find it laughable is that Jean Terrell had zero interest in doing disco. When she did her own album in 1978 she didn't allow for even one such song on it. [I believe that's right]. This during the height of disco and even after seeing LOVE HANGOVER take Diana Ross to the very top. Having someone performing music they weren't interested in would've been disingenuous and not a satisfying solution to any of this mess.
I see I placed this in the wrong thread. Laughable isn't the right word .....but it does give me a chuckle that all Jean had to do was jump on the disco train and everything would've been hunky dory .... I think believing in what you're doing had to count for something.
Jean probably saw what the aimless results were with Jimmy Webb and then Smokey's recycling of old forgotten tunes and new stuff with lame lyrics ....same for for Stevie .....and then what?? disco??? ....."get me out of here !!"
Boogie has a point - and there were also the weak Four Tops albums and the weaker personal appearances
I remember saying WHAT???? another new girl??? ...and a big yawn....here we go again...I became a fan in '68 right before TCB...so Cindy was my fav group soprano...case closed...I felt she always belonged there with Mary...and was so happy to see her return. The MSC sound was very clean, the look of Cindy and Mary together familiar...Mary was always my fav Supreme, and despite loving EVERYTHING about Scherrie, when Cindy left again, it dialed it way back for me...the Studio LP was good...but the live performance clips??? no thank you...
Like you, I became a fan later but in 1970. Mary and Cindy together were the Supremes to me whether it was Diana, Jean or Scherrie on lead. It was exciting to see Cindy back but I can also see on some clips that Cindy was certainly far less engaged than she had been in previous years. One Soul Train clip she is barely going through the motions on Early Morning Love and doesn't even lip sync her part at the start.Quote:
Originally Posted by gman
Don't get me wrong-I liked Jean- but there seemed to be more excitement and energy in the group with Scherrie and since Mary was stepping up she was also bringing far more to the group than before. In the studio the addition of Susaye added a great vocalist, yet the harmony of MSC could not be beat. HE & MS&S offered a great sound for the group moving forward. Seeing them on television, they just did not seem to be as cohesive visually as they were dynamic in the Recording studio:
https://youtu.be/CZm2yyVaatY?si=t9o_uffF849bXWxT
So you think Jean anticipated the disco wave in 1973!? It should be noted that Jean has often said the Jimmy Webb album is among her favourite work with the Supremes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogiedown
iQuote:
Originally Posted by telekin
No but I think its been suggested that had Jean held out until disco arrived, it all would've flowed along quite well for them .... so what I mean to say is , when coming to the point to be told, "girls, you're now a disco act", instead of Jean being thrilled, it would've instead been the ultimate final straw.
That she thought WEEDS was the group going in the right direction ...kind of makes the point. Jean was aiming for something more regal. Not BABY LOVE and FLOY JOY. When she signed on as a Supreme she was likely envisioning the big life, performances at nice halls in London and NYC and stays at Caesar's Palace.
Maybe Jean favored the Webb project because the lyrical content of the songs she sang gave her a range of themes and stories that were more than just singing love songs?
Jean's voice was great...on the right material....there was something heavenly about the Frank Wilson material...and the lighter Smokey stuff fit her well too...but I don't think dance music would have fit her style very well cut after cut...RnB and Pop, yes...
I like some of Diana's disco cuts....Lovin' Livin' & Givin'...the ROSS LP version only...and Swept Away are 2 of my top 10 DR solo cuts...the rest of my choices would be ballards [[Come In From The Rain, Sorry Doesn't Always, To Love Again) and RnB [[The Same Love) choices.
Scherrie was perhaps the singer who like DR was most able to handle various styles the best...even her Motorcity material is pretty good, and I like some of the Invictus work too...Mary was a wonderful singer...of course, ballards..and mid tempo stuff like Under Any Moon worked better for her than the loud fast stuff. Her sultry live performances of RED HOT are among my fav. MW concert moments.
you're absolutely right that M and C were really about the perfect pairing of backing vocalists ever within the group. somehow, someway, their voices were just perfectly matched and blended. they provided the ideal foundation for a unique singer like D or J or S to be the lead upon. and possibly even Lynda, although i'm not as familiar with her voice and leads other than a few short clips of them in HI.
the group harmonies of MCS were excellent.
i agree - Scherrie was an extremely talented and versatile singer. IMO she also really understood melody and lyric and the importance of conveying that live. like diana. and unlike jean. IMO Jean took each and every live performance as an opportunity to change things up, experiment, stretch her vocals. while that's admirable in terms of hearing what else she was capable of, for a fan sitting in the audience hoping to sing along with Stoned Love and she off riffing and mumbling, it would be disappointing. frankly the live show isn't about jean and her lofty goals as a singer. its about selling the group and their music to the audience and fans so they'll go out and buy things.Quote:
Originally Posted by gman
scherrie seemed to blend the two well. she definitely took more liberties with her vocals than diana but kept it under control
i do wish that she would have taken on a larger presence while in the group. she seemed too shy and reserved, not engaging too much with the tv hosts or interviews. she wasn't cold or distance. just sweet and shy. as the lead singer i think having her with a more present personality would allow more of the public and audience to get to know her and identify with her.
Jean could sing anything. "That's the Way Our Love Grows" is disco and one of the highlights of her solo album. I think she would be more than capable of singing lead on "He's My Man", "Early Morning Love", "Sweet Dream Machine", "You Keep Me Movin On", "Heart Walking" and all the rest. Y'all know how I feel about Jean. She could sing the phone book and by the time she got to Krasinski I'd be laid out.:D So I definitely think anything you give her- dance, pop, R&B, country, gospel, polka- she would have done it justice. Now whether she would be interested is a whole other thing.
Which "ballards" in particular? Florence? Hank? Alimi? Robert?:pQuote:
Originally Posted by gman
Kaye!Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/wp...ye_ballard.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M46jAjvEvMQuote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
Jean does a good job on this. But someone needs to wake up those sagging back-up singers!
"hey pick it up or we'll get some Supremes in here! "
Added:those backgrounds are horrible .....could they re-sing the title any more often??? They don't blend, they sound dreamy bored and are they even louder than Jean!!!!:p
Ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by sansradio
I went with the Ballards I knew [[besides my relatives). I've heard of Kaye Ballard, but not sure who she is.