it means simpson stitched her voice over tammi's ... if, in fact, tammi was in any shape to sing a single note!
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it means simpson stitched her voice over tammi's ... if, in fact, tammi was in any shape to sing a single note!
I agree. What reason would Marvin Gaye have had to lie? He was in a confessional mood at the time he was interviewed by David Ritz. I believe he was free from Motown and wanted to set the record straight. I'm not sure what Motown and Valerie Simpson's motives or incentives were in replacing Tammi Terrell and denying that Valerie sang on those records. Maybe they meant well and are protecting Tammi's legacy. But it's Valerie Simpson on many of those duets, no punching in or tweaking was involved. You can't fool my ears.
Dag, I missed this discussion but I have to say, someone would have to have been REALLY STRONG to, after going through six brain operations, somehow manage to come to Detroit and sing at a recording studio. At this point, I don't think saying it's Valerie singing on those records would hurt Tammi's reputation at all. If anything, it actually strengthens it.
Motown wanted to protect it's own mythology..
they also told us all those 1960's Diana Ross records were by The Supremes [[Love Child, Someday We'll Be Together, The Composer, No Matter What Sign You Are, etc..)
I definitely thought she sounded different. I think I was 12 at the time. To me, the voice had an exaggerated forced quality, almost like a Mae West impersonation. Of course, being 12 and unfamiliar with what shenanigans could be going on, you're right, it never crossed my mind that it might not be Tammi singing. But of course I was still years away from even ever hearing about the Andantes!
And even back then it was obvious to me that on a couple tracks they were just Tammi solo vocals with Marvin's voice added.
Midnight Johnny is right, a good listen to the LP is quite revealing.
Great input radionixon. I dont understand why some dismiss Valerie as perpetuating falsehoods. It clearly wouldnt hurt her to say it was her if that was the truth.
I say give Tammi her props, and give her the mike in her last days as it was previously stated I hear her on all the hits:
Your All I Need to get by, Ain't No Mountain HIgh Enough,
Ain't Nothing Like the Real Thing, Your Precious Love, If I Could Build My Whole World Around You, And with that said Marvin and Tammi Terrell were the greatest Pop Soul Duo that has not been touched since.
I was flabbergasted when I listened very carefully to You're All I Need To Get By yesterday and realized that it's Valerie Simpson's voice!!! It's not my favorite "Marvin/Tammi" record ... that would be "Your Precious Love", so I hadn't listened closely or sung along with YAINTGB very often. It was immediately apparent to me hat instead of Tammi's high, thin, reedy [[but infinitely charismatic) voice it was the richer, more colorful, gospel inflected [[but less charismatic, less unique) voice of Miss Simpson.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy this charade. The texture of the two voices is not the same. Neither is the diction. Tammi had a very strong [[or "strawng") southern twang in her delivery that is missing in Valerie's imitation. Check out Tammi's twang on the word "enough" in "Ain't No Mountain High Enu-u-uff" for example. That along with the fact that Val's voice is smoother, more nuanced and controlled than the thin, high, reedy and to me, much more captivating and interesting voice of Tammi Terrell was all the proof I needed when I listened. There is more "depth" to Val's voice but I prefer Tammi's. I just let my ears tell me.
What a great discussion.
I remember this thread occurred while I was taking Mass Comm 101 in college. There I learned the concept of Selective Exposure, where a person only takes in information that aligns with their own opinions or beliefs. I say this discussion, more often than not, fit the definition to a T. Several well thought out and written posts are met with disdain and criticism, while post like “ears don’t lie” are met with high regard.
So many old timers gone - some so connected with Motown - sad, such a shame
I truly believe it’s as simple as that Jimi and the fact Valerie was under contract to Motown.
I still love the album be it TT or VS singing. My ears tell me it’s Valerie Simpson on the majority of those “Easy” tracks doing an extremely good impression. Either way it’s still a superb album. :)
My 1st M&T was their greatest hits, even then I knew there was a difference in the female voice on some of the tracks..But after doing some research.on Tammi I just thought it was because of her declining health. If Tammi only was able to sing a line or 2 at a time, as Valerie has said did happen, then of course it would effect the sound of the performance..in some instances on You're All I Need, I hear the Easy Tammi voice on the title track! But there are parts on YAINTGB where MG says Tammi's name. Pretty confusing to me
Here's another interesting piece to the puzzle. It's another solo track that Tammi did in May 1966 where Marvin Gaye's vocals are added way after the fact. DFTM indicates that this manufactured duet was completed in March 1968. Anyone else find it interesting that this track was done so early in 1968, even before the true nature of Tammi's illness was unknown?
https://youtu.be/Hulm3szuMB0
Quite a few of the Marvin and Tammi duets on the UNITED and YOU'RE ALL I NEED albums were originally Tammi solos that Marvin later added his vocals to. So that started even before Tammi's collapse on stage in 1967.
Not sure of the timeline but by early 1968, Tammi may have already been operated on at least once. Her illness is referenced in the liner notes to the YOU'RE ALL I NEED album, which was released in August 1968. So by that point, there might have been more of a need for Marvin to overdub on Tammi's older recordings.
On YAINTGB it's a mixture of Tammi and Valerie. That's the blend of voices that Valerie referred to once. Tammi sings some lines, Valerie others [[where more power is needed). I found that hard to believe at first but seems obvious now.
I think on YAINTGB that it's actually more Valerie than it is Tammi. I use to think that it was Tammi singing at the very beginning of the song and that Valerie came in around the 43-second mark and sang the rest of the song. But after re-listening to the first 90 seconds of the track several times in a row, I'm now beginning to think that it's actually Valerie singing very low and soft in her Tammi voice and Tammi's not on the record at all.
I don’t think Marvin Gaye ever specified what tracks Valerie stepped in for Tammi. I don’t think anyone is trying to erase Tammi from songs, we’re having a discussion and people are just discussing the facts and music.
It’s my understanding that there are other unreleased tapes of Tammi attempting to sing. An individual who heard those tapes described Tammi’s voice as being frail and was convinced that it is indeed Valerie on the songs in question.
In DIVIDED SOUL, Marvin specifically mentioned the EASY album as an example of Valerie subbing for Tammi.
Another Marvin bio subsequently published by MOJO Books [[I believe) brought up the question of whether Valerie subbed on the single YOU'RE ALL I NEED TO GET BY as well. But Marvin didn't mention that one.
I went to the site DFTMC and looked the M&T Easy tracks up. Ludie Montgomery says Tammi had her 8th brain surgery in January 1970. So Tammi had possibly had 6 surgeries by the time Tammi recorded her vocals for that album. Can't really see her being able to go into a recording studio and take hours to record any vocals. Unless ?
Interesting topic to revisit again; I think Valerie worked with Marvin on the songs and that is why Marvin said what he did. I think Tammi was brought in the studio later and Valerie's tapes or dubs were used to help Tammi through the songs so it look they [[Marvin and Tammie were in the studio at the same time). Valerie and Nick used Tammie words line by line or word by word similar to what was done with Touch Me in the Morning. What you get is sometime just Val. There is probably only one person alive today that knows this.
That was not Valerie on You're All I Need to Get By. I'll go to the afterlife believing that.
You know what I think now? David Ritz misconstrued Marvin's words about the "Easy" sessions. Marvin probably did tell him what songs Tammi sung on "Easy". It's also probable Tammi and Valerie shared vocals on a couple of songs. But I can tell Tammi was on a good chunk of "Easy" [["Good Lovin' Ain't Easy..." is definitely Tammi).
We can probably settle the dispute here by putting in the dates of WHEN Tammi had surgery on her brain.
I think the first surgery was January 1968? The last one [[this one to just ease the pain as Tammi was clearly dying) was January 1970. So what happened in between these dates? And then we can go over "Easy" session dates and see if it makes sense. Obviously, she was there when N&V and Marvin worked on the album.
Val is the only one of the 4 major players still alive so I'm starting to believe that she brought Tammi in and got what she could from her. It's still a good album.
Good Lovin Ain't Easy, to my ears, is definitely Valerie Simpson. The track was finished in November 1968. Tammi herself is quoted in a magazine article published in November of '69, as saying that she had not been to Detroit to record in a year in a half. Aren't all of the tracks in question all produced by Ashford & Simpson? Things that make you go hmmmmm.
For me, a key reason to think it's Tammi on YAINTGB is that Marvin mentions her name, "Tammi listen". I don't think that he would have mentioned her name on a song where Valerie is singing or where he is duetising a solo recorded Tammi song.
I've been following this thread for a while, and there is nothing of note that I can add to the debate, plus my lack of knowledge and the inability of my ears to note subtle changes would clearly prevent me. This is my own personal view and is not meant to try to influence or disagree with anyone else. Over the past few days I have listened to the CD twofer "United / You're All I Need" issued in the UK, the double CD "The Complete Duets", plus "Come On And See Me".
Probably you are all correct in various ways, and I understand to get to the truth and the final answer would be very satisfying. However, for what it's worth, in my fantasy world I would like to think that Tammi gave all she could, the Motown "family" came together and used whatever they could and Valerie filled in wherever and whenever necessary to complete the project and provide a final and lasting tribute and memorial to Tammi.
In no way am I saying that I am right, but for me some mysteries are never meant to be solved but we are all free to come to our own independent conclusions. I will continue to follow this thread and perhaps one day the full facts will appear, but in the meantime I am happy to have and listen to "Easy" based on my own, perhaps inadequate, understanding.
Please accept that I don't intend to step on anybody elses toes or views.
Wow it does say Valerie under female vocal