Did Mary Wells leaving Motown benefit the Marvelettes?

Obviously, with the recent passing of Wanda Young, I’ve been playing my copy of “Forever More” in my car the past couple of days. And I’m noticing some similarities between her and Mary Wells on most of the Smokey Robinson produced cuts. I can easily imagine “Don’t Mess With Bill” and “ The Hunter Gets Captured by the Game” being recorded on Mary had she’d not abruptly left the company. While Brenda Holloway was the one who was supposed to be her successor, IMHO, Wanda Young came the closest to filling the void left by Mary Wells’s departure.

What do you guys think? Did the Marvelettes get a major boost because of Mary Wells leaving Motown?

I think the Temptations got the greater boost from the departure of Mary Wells. In terms of materials and producers.

I don't think Mary's leaving had an impact at all on the Marvelettes for better or worse. You do make a good argument though. However, Smokey had a thing where he wrote songs with a particular singer in mind. He would hear something in each one's voice so distinctly that I recall in an interview he remarked how he liked how a singer would sing certain words.

Smokey had Wanda specifically in mind for "Don't Mess With Bill" because he liked her little country voice [[ I too like her particular way of saying certain words to the point that I ended up co-opting it in everything I would sing.)

I don't doubt Smokey was on a different track musically when it came to either Mary or Wanda. Also, keep in mind that Smokey had already been working with Wanda well before Mary Wells's departure.

Still, you do raise a really good question, one I had never thought about before, so who knows?

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Originally Posted by WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance

I don't think Mary's leaving had an impact at all on the Marvelettes for better or worse. You do make a good argument though. However, Smokey had a thing where he wrote songs with a particular singer in mind. He would hear something in each one's voice so distinctly that I recall in an interview he remarked how he liked how a singer would sing certain words.

Smokey had Wanda specifically in mind for "Don't Mess With Bill" because he liked her little country voice [[ I too like her particular way of saying certain words to the point that I ended up co-opting it in everything I would sing.)

I don't doubt Smokey was on a different track musically when it came to either Mary or Wanda. Also, keep in mind that Smokey had already been working with Wanda well before Mary Wells's departure.

Still, you do raise a really good question, one I had never thought about before, so who knows?

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The act that benefited the most from Mary's sudden departure was clearly The Supremes. In fact, it was one of the reasons Mary left. She claimed that as Motown's biggest moneymaker that funds were being diverted to promote them over her. To an extent she was correct. Had Mary stayed she'd have had a few more hits but clearly the Supremes would have eclipsed her and she knew it. Her leaving was a smart move in some ways, a bad move in that it was a bit premature; she needed a few more big hits to get the attention of the bigger labels. 20th Century was just venturing into r&b and really didn't know what they were doing.

...and she was Bobby's Rogers wife, so I would think that familiarity would also come into play somewhat?

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Originally Posted by tjl

...and she was Bobby's Rogers wife, so I would think that familiarity would also come into play somewhat?

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In most cases that would be true TJ but here is isn't I'm afraid. Kat Schaffner told me many years ago that the instability of the group, constant changes, affected their standing with the company and also they were not as polished as the Supremes and didn't care to be. Berry could see in the Supremes crossing over into the plush nightclubs and showrooms with his girls excelling on standards like "Somewhere" and Funny girl songs. The Marvelettes were just too street, they didn't take to Maxine Powells etiquette classes the way Ross and her girls did.

Also in the mid 60s Wanda's mental and health issues began taking a toll on the group as well. Kat elaborated on this in their Unsung episode. It was sad but she became more of a problem than Flo towards the end.

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Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan

The act that benefited the most from Mary's sudden departure was clearly The Supremes. In fact, it was one of the reasons Mary left. She claimed that as Motown's biggest moneymaker that funds were being diverted to promote them over her. To an extent she was correct. Had Mary stayed she'd have had a few more hits but clearly the Supremes would have eclipsed her and she knew it. Her leaving was a smart move in some ways, a bad move in that it was a bit premature; she needed a few more big hits to get the attention of the bigger labels. 20th Century was just venturing into r&b and really didn't know what they were doing.

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Mary Wells could have been with Motown to her dying day and the Supremes still would have been the label’s biggest act. Giving that HDH was turning out the hits for them.
But most of Mary’s success came with Smokey behind the glass. Yes he was also working with the Marvelettes and the Temptations, but eventually Norman Whitfield would become main producer for the latter. So with Mary gone and Norman’s stronghold on the Tempts, Wanda and the Marvelettes were able to get more quality material and production’s from Smokey. Hence, why I believe Mary Wells leaving Motown helped the Marvelettes stay a consistent presence on the charts.

Jboy I think the Marvelettes benefited more from Wanda marrying Bobby Rogers than any other factor. By the end of 1965 product on the Marvelettes slowed and their dominance on the charts diminished as the Supremes went into orbit and Martha's group was reaching a nice peak. Smokey liked Wanda's voice which was soft and sensual like Mary Wells therefore he took the group under wing and made Wanda the lead singer, to the chagrin of Gladys Horton. Don't Mess With Bill was a huge hit but the hits that followed were more mid-level successes. Most oldies stations play the hits of the group prior to 1966. Despite Smokey's revitalization of the group, Motown didn't book them too far outside of Detroit and tv appearances after 1966 are practically nonexistent as Wanda's troubles spiraled more out of control as time went on. After 1965 Motown never knew who was going to show up for recordings and performances as the groups bandmembers came and went and the other two ladies kept asking Motown for help with Wanda, but Motown was too involved with the Supremes and to a lesser degree the Vandellas who were much bigger moneymakers for the company.