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I'm pretty sure that is the groups name and the song came out in the late 60's. The lyrics start out this way:
The evening summer breeze comes and takes your breath away
And the one you love sits beside you and you know he's here to stay yeah
You can'thelp but fall in love, talking about L-O-V-E love
I'm also pretty sure that this was a local release in Chicago. Anyone know anything about the group?
Attachment 17854Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_june
I remember The Scientists of Soul. They were a local Chicago group who had one regional hit with "Be's That Way Sometime" on Kashe Records. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdP2ooO76rI
The lyrics you describe are from another song, and it's also not their hit's flip, "Baby, Baby, I Love You". Those lyrics are slightly familiar to me. But, I can't remember the other song, and I don't think I have that record. But I'll look for it. It also doesn't show up on Kashe Records' discography. So, it might have been on a different local Chicago label.
As to the group, I know that Lee Wells produced them. I think he was a cousin of The Steelers' Kenneth Wells. Thomas Bailey and John Brown were members. I don't remember any of the others, but I think the songwriter, Ira Shy, might have been another. Interesting that they worked with Joe Scott, of The Scott Brothers. He arranged their Kashe cuts.
Sorry, I can't be of more help, but this was during late 1969 or 1970, when I was only in Chicago for a few months each year, and wasn't listening to the radio much, and wasn't buying many new records.
Thanks Robb, I knew you would have some info. I don't think the group nor the song are mentioned in the the Chicago Soul book either. I remember listening to the late DJ, Herb Kent playing the song as I was raking up leaves one fall day back then. The song is a very nice recording by the way. I have it dubbed onto a CD but don't remember the original source.
Edit: A lady on Youtube said this when she found "Be That Way Sometime" listed there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC2DqYFEKwg.
Lovin Spirit
7 years ago
OMG....I can't believe I found this. This is my uncle and his group. Thomas Bailey was my uncle, he just passed on 12/9. The only other member I know I that still lives is John Brown. He's here in Wilmington, DE. Oh3
She said would check on "You Can't Help But Fall In Love"
Attachment 17856Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_june
Can you post a soundfile of it on this thread? Maybe it can trigger my memory. There seems to be no video of The Scientists of Soul - "You Can't Help But Fall In Love", nor does it come up when googled. Was it a fast song like "Be's That Way", or was it a ballad? I recall it as mid-tempo, but it's only a faint memory. Too bad Bob Abrahamian is no longer with us. He'd be able to tell us everything about the record, and probably be in contact with John Brown, the group member who is still with us.
Attachment 17902Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_june
Great! I look forward to finding out more about it from Tom, and hearing it again.
Robb, I guess it was more like a ballad than anything else. I've got the song ripped to my PC but am having trouble getting the file copied to SDF. I'll keep trying. In the mean time, here is another song that was probably local to Chicago that I don't know who the group is. The song is titled "The Big Parade" and some of the lyrics are:
Make me a face in the crowd, one of the lonely who only can cry and watch the big parade go passing by.
At the end of the song the group sings "Passing by" repeatly while a deep voice repeats this line about 4X: "And watch the big parade go by" That song was played by DJs on WVON in Chicago.
Attachment 17918
That song is "The Big Parade" by The Trends. It sounds so good because it was written by Van McCoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v50PNXbmfsE
That song was played for awhile on WVON. It charted locally, but wasn't a local hit. The Trends had a few charted records on Smash Records from 1964-65. They were with ABC from 1966-1970.
Attachment 17917
This was The Trends' big early hit in 1963. I should have put it on The Chicago Soul thread. Thomas Dorsey was their main writer [[other than their producer/arranger, Johnny Pate. He was one of their 2 main lead singers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1T9NWNCAcs
Attachment 17917
This was one The Trends' best ABC records:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B1fr55FtYg
"If You Don't Dig The Blues", another of their best, is on our recent "Chicago Soul" thread.
Thanks for the Trends information. Most of the groups and artist like the Trends are all but forgotten. It makes me sad. I always thought The Big Parade would have been a nice song to play during the Bud Bilikin parade. How do you rip a song off of a CD and make it playable here? I have not been able to copy and paste it.
Attachment 17919
I tried dragging an audio file into the text box, but that doesn't work. The only way I know how to get a sound file into a post is to post a link to the file after it's hosted somewhere on The Internet, so you can link to that specific Internet address [[URL). But, this website has a special tool to upload soundfiles IF they are also videofiles. That is located in the post toolbar above the text box, when you start to make a text post. The tool is the second from the right [[2nd to last). It looks like film, and is mostly turquoise in colour. You will need to go to a "hosting website", and open an "account" with them. You could do that by opening a You-Tube account. It may be easier if you ask someone like Ralph, just to upload the audio file for you. If you send him a personal message on this website, and he agrees to do it for you, you'll just need to send a copy of your digital file to him, and then he can upload it onto this thread.
Anyone reading this thread, if you are willing to upload Mr. June's soundfile for him, please send him a personal message. Thanks in advance.
Thanks again Robb, I'll ask Ralph first off.Quote:
Originally Posted by robb_k
Attachment 17953
Motown01 provided us with a link to an audio file hosting/sharing website which hosts your audio file that is less than 15 MB, and will allow you to post a link to it. I've gone there to check it out, and it seems legitimate.
Here's a link for you to go to that website:
https://sndup.net/
I kind of like this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by robb_k
Yes it would've been!Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_june
Attachment 17954Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
We could have recommended it for this year's Parade. But, unfortunately, The Parade has been cancelled for this year. It will be the first year it hasn't been celebrated since it started in 1929. They even held it during World War II.
I know. It sucks but is understandable. The mere mention of the parade reminds me of my childhood.Quote:
Originally Posted by robb_k
Attachment 17955
I am now testing the audio file hosting website. Here's the link to the MP3 I uploaded [["Fighting A Losing Battle" by Billy Butler and The 4 Enchanters, from 1963, Okeh Records). It was originally considered for inclusion in Billy's "Right Track" LP, but later dropped:
https://sndup.net/4vst
It works for MP3s, OGG files and WAV files only, and the file must be smaller than 15 MB.
So, we don't need to convert all our sound files to video files just to link them in a post, or use the insert video tool.
However, IF we want to use SDF's Insert Video tool to have the song's audio accessible here on an SDF post, we can use MP3 Toolbox's free online service, to convert MP3s to videos, here's the link: https://mp3toolbox.net/mp3_to_mp4#.XxciKed7lhE
Then, we have to find a media hosting website, like You-Tube, to provide a URL - web address for SDF to link to, to be able to use SDF's "insert video" tool. I used my You-Tube channel to host the new MP4 I made.
Attachment 17957
I used a free online service to change my MP3 audio file to an MP4 video file, and uploaded it to my You-Tube channel. Here is the MP4 which you all can see here on this post, or you can go to my channel on You-Tube to watch [[actually listen to) it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlcEXmKfHKw&t=43s
Well done Robb, the sound is punchy and true. I am assuming/expecting/hoping this is the first of a treasure trove of rate tracks you will post going forwards. I subscribed to your channel so look forward to it!
Cheers ☺️. Mike
Attachment 17958
Mr. June,
If you don't want to deal with the new file creation, conversion, uploading and registering for, and using a hosting service, just send me the sound file, and I'll convert it to MP4, upload it to my You-Tube channel, and post the audio/video here onto this thread.
I look forward to hearing that song, and any other Chicago Soul songs you have that only came out locally, after I moved away from Chicagoland [['66-'67).
Thanks.
Robb, I have converted it to MP4 but the problem I'm having is that I can't copy to paste elsewhere for some reason. I'm working on it.
Attachment 17978Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_june
If you run into too many technical problems, just send me the MP4 in a PM, and I'll upload it to my You-Tube channel, and post it on this thread.
Robb, check your PM.
JM
Attachment 17987Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_june
Check yours now.
Robb
Just did a quick check--I had to confirm it via Discogs--"You Can't Help But Fall In Love" is by the Contributors of Soul on Venture, not the Scientists of Soul.
Best,
Mark
Attachment 17990
The Contributors of Soul were a different group from The Scientists of Soul, but you were right, June, that they were a local, Chicago Group. I remembered, correctly, that it was a mid-tempo song. They used Chicago arranger, Eddie Silvers, and the writers of the song, Gerald Dickerson and Charles Boyd, were both members of Chi-Town singing groups, The Creations, and a few others. Both Dickerson and Boyd, as well as Silvers, worked with Joshie Armstead's Chicago labels, Giant, Globe, Gamma, and Wise/Wide World Records. And this Record's original label [[before being leased to Mickey Stevenson's Venture Records), Tad Records, also seems to have been related to, or run by Armstead. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2RJZRBV1YQ
I assume this is the song [[and group) to which you refer. It was from 1969. Surely it is the same song, starting with the words you described. I doubt that two different groups that included "[[something) of Soul" as their name, recorded the same song. It appears that you confused them, because 2/3 of their names were the same. Upon hearing it [[again), I remember that I've heard it before. I believe that Gerald Dickerson and Charles Boyd were members of The Contributors of Soul. I don't know if the other members of The Contributors had also been with them in The Creations on Globe Records in 1966-67. The Creations on Ric Williams' Zodiac Records in 1966, were a different group, made up of Detroiters, Bridges, Knight and Eaton, who wrote the two songs, and had come to Williams' label, together with Joshie Armstead, who also brought arranger, Mike Terry, and produced Ruby [[Stackhouse) Andrews' "Casanova" and other Mike Terry arranged cuts on Zodiac and Aquarius Chicago artists. The Creations who recorded, in 1963, for Chicago's Penny Records, were also a different group. The Contributors of Soul also recorded for New Miss Records in the very early 1970s. Dickerson and Boyd also wrote those songs.
That's the song alright! Great to get to the bottom of this and thanks for tracking down the song and the correct groups name. Interesting to hear some history on the song also. The Creations had a song that I have on a WVON aircheck [[can't remember the name though). Didn't they change their name to the Brothers of Soul? You Can't help But Fall In Love has great production and the groups singing is tight. How did you and anyone else who followed this thread like the song?
Attachment 17991I like it a lot. It has the very sweet, mid-tempo Chicago Sound I like, which was a lot less common as late as 1969, which is why I didn't like so many songs on the radio starting in 1967, and getting worse to my taste every year, moving forward. From 1959-1965, I liked virtually EVERY song played on the R&B/Soul stations [[like WVON/WDIA) or R&B shows [[like on WGES). Whereas, by 1969, I liked relatively few by 1969. In 1969, I was only visiting Chicagoland [[to visit family and friends during school breaks), as I was attending UCLA at that time. So, I didn't even buy this record, because it never crossed my path in a bargain bin, junk store, thrift store, or Walgreens or Kresge 10¢ sale 9whereas, The Scientists of Soul hit did. The latter was a bigger seller. But both are about the same level of quality to my ears.
Attachment 17992Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_june
No. The Brothers of Soul were Fred Bridges, Richard Knight, and Bobby Eaton [[all from Detroit). The Creations were Gerald Dickerson, Charles Boyd, and 2 other singers, all from Chicago. As I explained above, The Creations[[Chicago group), brought to Chicagoan, Ric Williams' Zodiac/Aquarius/Boo Records by Jo Armstead, along with Detroit producer/arranger, Mike Terry, and Detroit songwriters, Bridges, Knight & Eaton, were originally supposed to record "A Dream". But, for some reason, Bridges, Knight, & Eaton ended up doing the vocals, but the group name, The Creations was still used on the record. Bridges, Knight & Eaton [[who later became "The Brothers of Soul") had written the song, and as was their usual method, had sung the demo guide tape for the artists to use to learn it. Apparently, Armstead liked their demo enough to put that over the BG track and release it. Or, maybe The Creations couldn't make the session, and Armstead had them record, rather than waste the studio fee money?
The Creations releases were:
"Oh Baby"/"Plenty Of Love" [[Globe 1000)
"Just Remember Me"/"Times Are Changing" [[Globe 102) A Vietnam song-their biggest chart record
"I've Got To Find Her"/"Times Are Changing" [[Globe 103)
The "Creations" on Zodiac 105 was "A Dream"/"Footsteps"
Attachment 17992Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_june
No. The Brothers of Soul were Fred Bridges, Richard Knight, and Bobby Eaton [[all from Detroit). The Creations were Gerald Dickerson, Charles Boyd, and 2 other singers, all from Chicago. As I explained above, The Creations[[Chicago group), brought to Chicagoan, Ric Williams' Zodiac/Aquarius/Boo Records by Jo Armstead, along with Detroit producer/arranger, Mike Terry, and Detroit songwriters, Bridges, Knight & Eaton, were originally supposed to record "A Dream". But, for some reason, Bridges, Knight, & Eaton ended up doing the vocals, but the group name, The Creations was still used on the record. Bridges, Knight & Eaton [[who later became "The Brothers of Soul") had written the song, and as was their usual method, had sung the demo guide tape for the artists to use to learn it. Apparently, Armstead liked their demo enough to put that over the BG track and release it. Or, maybe The Creations couldn't make the session, and Armstead had them record, rather than waste the studio fee money?
The Creations releases were:
"Oh Baby"/"Plenty Of Love" [[Globe 1000)
"Just Remember Me"/"Times Are Changing" [[Globe 102) A Vietnam song-their biggest chart record
"I've Got To Find Her"/"Times Are Changing" [[Globe 103)
The "Creations" on Zodiac 105 was "A Dream"/"Footsteps"
Here's "Just Remember Me" - I'm sure you'll remember it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l1lrNYqSLQ
Attachment 17993
Here's Bridges/Knight/Eaton's "A Dream". Mike Terry's arrangement and use of Detroit musicians makes it sound more like a Detroit, than Chicago record:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs0ISp547MI
Attachment 17996
Here are The Creations 1962-63 group. While attending Hirsch High School, later WVON DJ and record label owner/producer, Richard Pegue, organised the "creation" of this group, and got his boss, the owner of the [[Metropolitan) Met Record Shop, to finance it. He also assisted Johnny Pate in producing it. A few years later, after being a member of the R&B/Soul singing group, The Norvells, while being well established as one of Chicago's most popular DJs, he revived The Penny label, as well as its subsidiary, Nickle Records. This "Creations" group was made up of his schoolmates, and not at all related to the Dickerson/Boyd Globe Records group:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ3QHGFlJdw
The young high-schooler must have had some communication lapse with the printer, as the song title seems to have been "[[Let The World Know) We're In Love", but it ended up with only "Let the" as the preface, with no parentheses. "Let The We're In Love"! Is that a Yogi Berra-ism???
Attachment 17997
Here's The Contributors of Soul's early 1970s release on New York's New Miss Records. They went to New York to work with producer, Emmet Garner. This one has a different lead singer from their Tad release, and their work as The Creations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftnXQNAOJ_M
Hi Mark, I missed your reply. Thanks also for your help and have a blessed day.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark speck
Attachment 17998Quote:
Originally Posted by mark speck
Yes, thanks for that information. I find it interesting that Mickey Stevenson's L.A.-based Venture Records leased the Chicago Tad production for national distribution, and they also leased Bob Lee's and Ruth Moore's Vows/Major's' Chicago productions, and signed The Majors to Venture, leading to 4 singles by The Majors/Major IV. Maybe Mickey found out about the promising Tad release, and that producers Judith Ross and Eddie Silvers were looking for a national distribution deal, after Jo Armstead failed to get one for them [[unlike how she got Garland Green picked up by Uni/Revue, Bobby Hutton by Mercury's Blue Rock/Philips, and Rhetta Hughes to Tetragrammaton), from Bob Lee, or Mickey's ex-Motown colleague, Mike Terry, who was her main producer and arranger at her Giant Records. Mickey's independent production company [[after Venture/People Records disbanded) offices operated out of the suite next to our Airwave Records for 5 years, and he worked with us on a few projects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robb_k
So, the Brothers of Soul sang that song but under The Creations name. I can see how that would cause confusion. They must have done it again on another song. The reason that I asked the question about them also being The Creations concerns a song played on WVON on 8/29/67. The voices [[lead singer, back ground and music) are exactly like The Brothers of Soul other songs. There is no mistake of that. The DJ [[Bill "Butterball" Crane) said, "I hear foot steps and these are The Creations." The song was "Foot Steps." The world of music with it's many changes here and there, can cause a lot of mistakes.
Attachment 17999Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_june
So, "Footsteps" was re-released as a B-side of a later Brothers Of Soul release on Williams' Boo or Shock Records in 1967? If so, was it a re-recording, or their original 1966 recording?
Yes. We'll never know if it was just an information transfer error that caused the group name "Creations" to end up on the Zodiac label [[because Bridges, Knight, and Eaton didn't have a group name at that time), OR that Ric Williams intended to have The Creations' version of those songs on the released record, but the tapes were accidentally switched [[placed in the wrong canister), OR, Williams wanted to have those songs "belong" to The Creations, and they would sing those songs in their live performances, but liked Bridges, Knight & Eaton's recording better, and thought it would sell better, OR, he just didn't want to throw away the expensive recording studio fee when The Creations didn't show up, so he had The Brothers sing it, and liked it so much, he released it as is, but intended to promote it using the contract-signed Creations.
The latter situation had happened many times in that business. Detroit's Golden World producer, Don Davis, wasn't happy with The Holidays' lead singer, Eddie Anderson's effort on "I'll Love You Forever", when label Owner Ed Wingate wanted to get a new record out quickly. Edwin Starr happened to be in the studio, and told Davis he could do a good job on that tune. Davis tried him, and liked his version much better. So, he put out the record. But Starr already had several good A-side recordings ready for future release, and Wingate wanted to get a Holidays' record out to promote his new group. So, the record was released as by The Holidays.
OK, the Brothers of Soul sang that song under The Creations name. I can see how that would lead to confusion. They must have done it again. The reason I asked that question about TBOS cocerns a song that I heard on a WVON aircheck, dated 8/29/67. The voices [[lead singer, back ground and music) are exactly like TBOS other songs but the DJ [[Bill "Butterball" Crane) said, "I hear foot steps and these are The Creations." The song was "Foot Steps." The world of music with it's many changes can cause a lot of mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by robb_k
Edit: I've heard the "A Dream" song but it is another version that has a different opening, fuller music and more background singing. It's the one on the Collectibles CD