Leave it to Dave Marsh to hear disco in AINT NOTHIN BUT A MAYBE [??] while totally ignoring the glaring disco masterpiece found here.
Either it’s another typically flimsy review or this piece got edited, leaving out a segment .
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Leave it to Dave Marsh to hear disco in AINT NOTHIN BUT A MAYBE [??] while totally ignoring the glaring disco masterpiece found here.
Either it’s another typically flimsy review or this piece got edited, leaving out a segment .
it’s not even the review, I’m looking for. There’s another one that I thought was Rolling Stone that said something to the effect, “this is the kind of album, Dionne Warwick, Natalie Cole, and Aretha Franklin you should be making “of course it could be dementia, however, I’m still looking for it because I remember that quote. The album was just perfect for that cold dark February day.
[QUOTE=sup_fan;749653]now maniac - lol. did you scroll up and see my earlier post on the album? i think you're reading my second post. :)
i do agree that it's a very excellent album. I don't know that i'd call it a masterpiece though. or grammy award-winning. IMO Touch Me In the Morning [[the album and the song) should have been at least nominated. the entire TMITM package was perfect, and also ironic that it was so many producers. with LH, yes it was a radically new sound and song. but that artistic tone wasn't carried throughout the album. with TMITM you have the first pop music Diana was to record AFTER the amazing foray into jazz. plus she'd married and had a child. plus launched a movie career. so you had this totally different person in 73 and with all of those massive life changes, how would it come through in …
You’re right sup,I missed it. I agree with you about TMITM. When I played that album for the first time, I almost cried. Here was her first viable, can’t go up against anyone in the business, stupendous album. I know how much the first two Ashford & Simpson albums are loved, and revered, and I certainly love elements about them. But they weren’t competitive in the market TMITM was. I am convinced part of the reason is because people who bought the album on the strength of the single, weren’t disappointed when they heard the other tracks. Side one I had, arguably, five tracks worthy of single release. Side two contained the master vees, brown, baby/save the children. How I wish that would have been promoted, edited and sent out as a single. It might’ve been a smash, or I might’ve been a flop, but it would be very interesting to know. Even the cover art, which, normally I would feel cheated. If that’s all the image we’re going to get of her, fit the mood of the single so much that I figured Motown must have a new art department. I mean, this is only three years after greatest hits, volume three, magnificent, 71 and two. Anyway, diana ross 76, with two obvious number one records, and another certain top 10 was even more competitive.
But did we need to highlight Diana's versatility yet again? I feel like anyone who didn't recognize how versatile of an artist Diana Ross was by 1976 just didn't deserve to find out.:p She had been providing evidence of her versatility to the general public since 1964. I guess I can overlook "Kiss Me Now", but "Smile" was going too far. It had no business being packaged with these other songs IMO.
Ollie my thoughts weren't that the album necessarily had to be more upbeat- although I guess my use of the word "funky" probably gave that impression- but that it needed some more 70s...soul. I love "Took A Little Time" and don't have any problem with it on the album. If they were gonna include "Mahogany", "After You", "Smile", then give the whole album to Masser. This wasn't the time for yet another hodgepodge. But at the end of the day, I'm guessing off the strength of the two #1s, the album succeeded in putting money in Motown's account and keeping Diana Ross relevant, which was ultimately the goal. So who am I to argue?:cool:
I think the time for a more funky, dance orientated album should have been in the followup to ”DR76”. The fact the public welcomed “Love Hangover ” with open arms should have given Motown some indication as to where she should be heading.
”Getting Ready For Love” though a really nice song, doesn’t quite cut the mustard....imo.
[QUOTE=TheMotownManiac;749791] the album graphics for TMITM are truly perfect. supposedly it was art design for the cancelled Blue project, of which several tracks were used for TMITM and other albums. Little Girl Blue on TMITM is IMO one of the most amazing DR songs ever recorded. so agree that Motown dropped the ball on TMITM by not continuing to push it, release a second or even third single!
i think the art for The Boss is the my favorite of all and damn! it couldn't be more appropriate for the music. Randy's description of her looking that a true 80s Woman was spot on. showing off some leg and chest, no sequins but still so utterly glamorous, the first time with the mane of hair. a defiant look that is still suggestive and appealing. it's not cold or threatening
and the art for DR76 is amazing too. that photo session was so unique and magical. i think the look works perfect with the released music but it also would have worked with my suggestion of reimagining the music a bit.
ah but see maybe you DID with this album. sure diehard fans were more than well aware of her talent and capabilities. but LH was such a phenomenon that it opened her up to a whole new fanbase. new fans that were too young to care much about her back in the 60s now had a reason to care. they might have never even paid attention to what she had been doing before
the whole Baby it's me project was mis-timed. everything about it is stellar but to release in fall 77 right on top of Saturday Night Fever was a terrible move. the dance tracks on it just weren't anywhere near powerful enough and fun, light pop tunes were not what people were wanting. BIM would have been perfect in 75 or hell even 81 instead of WDFFIL. you could have simply held the entire project and released it in the early 80s
so you're absolutely right. with the success of LH, motown should have gone full-on disco with her and made a major smash. and i guess they sort of tried with the subsequent Hal Davis productions and then the HDH stuff. but all of it was far inferior to LH. it's like they shot their shot with that first one and had nothing else left for her
The priority should have been in finding another “Love hangover”. It’s odd when you consider the high quality dance material HDH were producing on the Supremes that Diana was never taken in that direction for a complete album.
“Your Love Is So Good For Me” might have done well with a funked up remix to breath some oomph into it. The 12” version is a lot better but even so.
Then again the Mary Scherrie and Susaye album which is chock full of Holland Brother Disco songs, didn't even chart so maybe that's why Motown didn't go full Disco with Diana Ross albums? In a way, it may have helped her as she didn't get saddled with a Disco diva tag.
As opposed to Diana herself, the Supremes profile was by then quite low.
I don’t see why you might think she would be considered a disco diva by simply recording a few more songs in that vein.
As mentioned, the “BIM” album was all wrong for the time being why most of it’s singles died a death.
IMO the quality of the HDH productions for the supremes was FAR higher than the music they recorded with Diana. frankly i find the Diana tracks to be second rate, at best. nowhere near the quality she needed and laughable follow ups to LH. I can completely understand why they were canned
Greg Wright sort of tapped into something with You Were The One. it's a great song. i don't know if it's at LH level though
i think the MSS project suffered from a variety of things working against it.
1. the wrong first single - Wheel is a fine dance floor track but not radio friendly
2. disjointed campaign with the djs and discos - with the HE set, Walking was really the sole tune the djs were focusing on. sure the title track got some action. but everyone really was focused on Walking. i don't know if this was a strategically planned effort by the group and it's management [[doubtful lol) or just the fact that Walking is head and shoulders above everything else on the lp. it's the clear standout. with MSS, according to the disco charts, it was all over the place. some focused on Wheel. some on Wheel and LYG. or Wheel/LYG/love i never knew or only LYG and LINK or LYG and Don't wanna be tied down, etc. without having that focus in the clubs, momentum on 1 song never materialized and so the hopes of a crossover hit dimmed
3. mary's announcement of leaving - the lp came out in mid to late oct. according to mary's book, she announced her departure from the group in mid Dec. at which point apparently motown stopped all promotion
4. berry managing the group - this is certainly speculation but if mary had declined berry's offer, that would have done nothing to garner any support or interest from him or the label
I bought The ‘Last Time’ album when it was first released in 1975 and always considered it an okay ‘middling’ album, playing it only occasionally. It spawned two top 40 hits in the UK, the title track and ‘Love Me’.
I recently acquired the album on CD and now have a new respect for it. Diana explores different genres throughout the album, from Country, ballads and gospel. In addition to the two ‘hits’, I like ‘Sleepin’, ‘Stone Liberty’ and for me, the stand out track is the gospel tinged ‘You’. I just love the way the song builds to an all out crescendo and is one of those lost gems that could have made the album a classic.
I disagree. The real problem with BIM is that Motown bungled the release schedules for both the album and the singles. It was one big "who the hell is making the decisions at Motown" piss show. The singles did fairly well in some markets. The problem was that the album was on the street for awhile before Motown even dropped the first single. By then various markets were playing various songs. The singles started dropping and by then it was too late for a national hit.
I recall someone making the argument that the BIM project sounded like music that would be made a couple years later. I actually agree with that. I also think that worked in BIM's favor, as Diana was ahead of the game. I don't think we can accurately judge how well received the singles were because of the way Motown messed it up. With some of the dumb decisions made regarding Diana from 1970 onwards, it's a wonder the lady ever had a hit at all.
there might be some timing issues too. plus the Hollands had been working closely with Scherrie at Invictus. the early HDH disco songs with the Sups are fine but not special. even much of HE is still what i call "generic disco" Only You and High Energy are both great songs but it's possible to hear plenty of others singing them. Walking is unique and special. the power of the lyrics fits perfectly with the power of Scherrie's voice. and the exciting backing vocals are so well suited for the supremes and the tone of the song.
i think it was that success which gave the Scherrie lineup a "sound" and they developed MS&S off of that.
with Diana, they were probably just exploring different things that they had available. rather than tapping into a new custom sound
no i completely agree. MS&S is top notch but my point was that HDH got to that point AFTER quite a bit of trial and error. Where Do I Go From Here is fine enough. definitely better than Fire Don't Burn. but still it's not in the same league as the MS&S set.
with the diana tunes, it seems to me that they just went into the studio and had her record whatever. they hadn't had time to explore and come up with a new sound
i think market timing definitely played a role here. once Sat Night Fever was on the streets, the entire BIM set was just too tame. SNF was such a major cultural change. you could almost liken it to the arrival of the Beatles to the US in 64. sure american artists were still releasing good things but they just went nowhere due to the entire pop market audience shifting to something else.
It might have had some effect, but i still don’t consider the album to be choc full of potential hit singles. The fact that nearly all the singles died a death in the UK, normally one of her strongest markets gives some indication as to their commercial potential.
Had the album been released in 81 it would be following the biggest selling album of her career. “You Got It” is no “Upside Down” and “Getting Ready For Love” no “Mirror Mirror”. It would have been just to tame a follow up.
Hit singles are not always an indication of a good album, with “BIM” remaining a classy affair without them.
They did that. Exactly that how dave is came up with don’t leave me this Way and ross refused to record it. You can lead a stubborn Mule to water………. I think Thelma Houston was absolutely ideal for the song, but Diana would have hit with it also. Maybe not as big. She like to doing a variety of songs.
I think that Saturday night fever wasn’t big competition because it didn’t come out until Christmas time and baby. It’s me was came out in September. That was plenty of time to release a couple singles. I would’ve released top of the world in July. Then a follow up in September, and then the album I probably would have released come in from the rain second and a reworked same love that made me laugh. If those were hitting, OK, fourth single would’ve been baby it’s me. I’m very curious to see how it would’ve done.
Isn't this the period Bluebrock has told us someone at EMI was actively trying to sabotage Diana's UK career?
BIM was the really odd album in the UK which never charted but which remained just outside for a long period and wasn't far short of Gold status.
Interestingly Top Of The World and Your Love Is So Good For Me never made the Official chart but they did make the Gallup chart.
I'd put Touch Me In The Morning album north of middling.
In addition to Touch Me and Life, Leave A Little Room and I Won't Last A Day would surely have been at least top 20 although it looked as is they were ready to go with We Need You as the 3rd single - I have reservations about this, I think the lyrics may have been too dark for the UK public.
I think Diana does a good job on Imagine but what ruins the album for me are the other three tracks Little Girl Blue, my Baby and Brown Baby/Save The Children, not for me at all.
I wouldn't even class diana as middling - yes Upside Down was brilliant and My Old Piano was pretty good but didn't like the rest of the tracks not even I'm Coming Out.
How Deep Is Your Love was released in Sept 77. the full album soundtrack in Nov and was More than a Woman. plus You Should Be Dancing had been released the year prior and was now coming back strong [[though not officially released as a single). Plus there was just huge buzz about the Bee Gees, the film and everything associated with it.
BIM and Getting Ready for Love were issued in Sept and Oct 77 respectively. a single usually takes a month or so to enter the charts so the timing really is just totally off here. maybe if the releases had been spring or even early summer but still, this music was just a bit too safe and "nice" for what was going on. it didn't push Diana into anything new and exciting.
For Berry Gordy to miss the boat when he was actively trying to develop Motown's film empire seems hard to believe. Maybe being west coast didn't help, disco erupted out of NYC. But once SNF hit, he should've noticed. Maybe he was just too old, and things like PIPPIN attracted him instead.
But Motown's embarrassingly limp participation in THANK GOD ITS FRIDAY proved they hadn't caught on.... even when some of their biggest records recently were disco. Pity that with the ready made roster of performers they had, they didn't use it as vehicle for movie and music success. As stupid as TGIF was, so was SNF [and so was MAHOGANY].... so the standard to beat seemed a completely doable target.
"BOOGIE DOWN" was begging to be their cash in project .... especially with Diana so eager to be a film star and with nowhere to go...
I think you're giving SNF too much power. Fleetwood Mac and Linda Ronstadt finished off 1977 and into 1978. Yeah, no denying how huge SNF became, with a ton of weeks at #1, but a bit of hodgepodge artists with number one albums afterwards. And don't forget, when BIM dropped, Debby Boone was on her way to number one for ten whole weeks...a song about as far from SNF as one might get. Lol
Disco really had it's coming out party as 1978 got underway, but it didn't force other artists and songs into obscurity. People outside of disco were still hitting and selling big. When it was all said and done, BIM still did respectfully well, and that's with Motown's bungling of the singles. Imagine how much better it might have done if Motown didn't screw it up.
I think BIM's singles had a chance but how could they win when different markets were playing different album cuts at the same time because no singles were released for more than a month? By the time the singles dropped, some areas had already played it enough off the album that it didn't make sense to start playing it again just because Motown finally issued it as a single.
To my ears, BIM doesn't sound like much of anything that was out at the time. Maybe the ballads are of it's time, but the other songs come across as new. Even "All Night Lover" with it's throwback Supremes style seems pretty hip. I don't fault Motown for going in this direction with Diana in 1977. I fault them for not having their stuff together in giving the album the chance it needed to follow DR76's success. Diana78 on the other hand was a complete mess. It really should have been a breakout album had they gone with a disco lineup, maybe one ballad on each side if they were too scared to go full on disco.
now i might be jumping the gun a bit by saying SNF was starting to wipe everything else out in fall of 77. and it isn't that no other song or music broke through. but facts are facts Ran and you're wrong on this one
the soundtrack ended up selling over 40 million copies. was the biggest selling soundtrack until The Bodyguard and the biggest selling record until Thriller. it topped the record chart for 24 straight weeks
How deep is your love - went #1 and was in the top 10 for 17 weeks! selling nearly 2 million copies in the US
Stayin Alive - wasn't even released as a single yet but the trailers during the fall of 77 for SNF forced the singles release. it too topped the charts for weeks and sold nearly 4 million copies.
Night Fever - #1 for 8 weeks selling 2.5 million. and for 5 of the weeks NF was #1, SA was #2. and HDIYL was still in the top 10
i don't disagree that the soundtrack is a bit all over the place. some tunes are amazing and some are... But this thing just took music industry by storm. Fleetwood's Rumours was a huge phenomenon too. but at the beginning of the year. it was released in early Feb 77 and the final single was released in Sept 77. again, maybe if BIM was released in spring 77 it would have had time to find it's own place. totally agree motown's promotional efforts were haphazard.
i agree that BIM doesn't sound like anything else in late 77 or into 78. maybe a good way to describe the situation is similar to the mid60s music. by 66 and 67, music was becoming less cute. rock was kicking in more, bands and groups were getting more aggressive with their sound. HDH definitely became more adventurous with things like Love is Here, YKMHO, Reflections, 7 rooms of gloom, bernadette, etc.
top songs of 78 include the SNF tunes, Andy Gibb, various songs from Grease, Dance Dance Dance by chic, Boogie Oogie Oogie, two out of three aint bad, last dance, use ta be my girl, hot blooded, we are the champions. As i've said, mabye the BIM set was just too cute and not adventurous enough.
when you have at your fingertips Stevie and Marvin and Diana and Eddie ,and all those songwriters, this is an opportunity tailor made. Combine your existing music talent with your film aspirations. Not with a SNF knock off . Something more clever, along the lines of CAR WASH. Look what Whitfield did with that !!
For me the SNF album was mostly ho-hum. It was just in the right place at the right time for an under informed audience looking for something new. It was amazing working in the record store at the time. For every three people in line at the register, two of them had the SNF ST.
i agree. and don't forget it was a DOUBLE ALBUM!! problem is there's more than enough material for it to have been 1 disc, although maybe if you dropped Jive and You Should Be Dancing since they were previously released songs. all of the instrumental stuff isn't very exciting. or you play it once and then moved the needle. but i guess they needed the tunes to fill in the rest of the album
Yes a two record set, brilliant. Neil Bogart surely took notes. What people wanted most was the Bee Gees stuff ...
Nobody could have foreseen how that soundtrack would take off and over. Would be so interesting to learn how it was compiled and by who and how much thought was put into it. I'm sure KC was kicking himself for not contributing a stronger cut than BOOGIE SHOES. But , was also at the same time glad he got something on there.
A diverse array was tapped into. Was Motown approached if they were interested in getting something included??
added from wiki:
Quote:
The Bee Gees's involvement in the film did not begin until post-production. As John Travolta asserted, "The Bee Gees weren't even involved in the movie in the beginning ... I was dancing to Stevie Wonder and Boz Scaggs."[8]
given how tepid motown's interest was in disco, i'd be surprised if the SNF people wanted to do much with them. however you did have some huge hits like LH, Don't leave me this way, Walking, got to give it up. maybe the problem was motown didn't have a strong reputation in the area of disco even though they certainly had a lot of hits. they hadn't really produced a big disco LP. DR 76 was big but not as a disco album. Any Way You Like It [[thelma's album that included Don't Leave Me) wasn't a mega force.