I've always loved this. Glad to view it in high resolution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHv3mMGcdGQ
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I've always loved this. Glad to view it in high resolution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHv3mMGcdGQ
And no wig change from the show opener "Forever Came Today".
Probably one of my favorites from their Sullivan appearances. Diana, Mary and Cindy were absolutely ON POINT with their performance. Yes, it's total pandering to the older adult crowd, but they did it with such STYLE.
agreed!Quote:
Originally Posted by danman869
the only problem with this clip is the end lol. I have a vhs with all of the Sullivan performances and as the applause swept the audience, the camera goes to Ed who is just beaming with joy and pride, applauding strongly himself. as he wraps up and turns to the camera he says
"they are just great!!!"
then my clip ends :)
this is probably one of the most flawless routines the girls did on tv. i'm pretty sure they're lip syncing. but that's ok. the vocals are perfect. and this was one of their most complex routines for choreography. they hit every mark.
I think this is one of the few appearances where Ed didn't call them over for a quick chat or handshake.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
I love this!!! Not only are "The Girls" paying tribute to a true legend, they are just terrific in this clip. I really like how they consistently paid homage to the generation that preceded them [[Waller, Waters, Andrew Sisters, Baker, on and on and on). They were a true class act.
IMO DRATS were never better than they are during this performance. There are other wonderful performances from this grouping for sure, but for me this is tops. In regards to what Danman stated, probably my favorite part of the performance is when Diana gets to the line about "taking sips" and goes into a contemporary beat. The mixing up of the classic with the contemporary was genius.
Sheer perfection!
My favourite part is also towards the end when the music turn uptempo and Diana injects a little soul into the proceedings. Hits aside, this performance highlights just what made the Supremes so incredibly special. Would loved to have seen Flo doing this routine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyluckyme
this is probably my fave DRTS performance and maybe Supremes ever. The vocal arrangements are intricate and brilliantly highlight the material; vocals are superb with Ross nailing not only the material, but the difficult lipsink duties as well - very tough to concentrate on while performing all new material with all new choreography while trying to charm yourself into a solo career with a probable 3-4 day head start. Mind blowing impressive. New member Mary is on fire and definitely giving my fave of her performances as a Supreme. She’s beautiful and, while normally I’m not too keen on bgs competing with the lead for attention, she doesn’t cross that line and dresses it up sensationally. Plus, next to her I dream of Jeannie hair, this is my fave Mary hair.
I don’t recall my first viewing of this medley, but I do recall my first viewing of the show opener, Forever Came Today. Of course, I was still in the ICU over Flo’s departure, but I do recall thinking how killer they looked in the black gowns as they initially walked downstage. I begrudgingly admitted to myself Flo would not have looked as good in that tight gown. At her firing weight, they would not have worn these on tv.
it’s thrilling to finally have a crystal clear copy of this amazing performance. Thanks for sharing it!
As much as I love Florence, I fear this routine would not have been as slick. Flo was the more dance challenged of the three and sometimes came across a wee bit clumsy in comparison to Mary and Diana. Cindy apparently didn't have this problem. So whereas the originals had these routines that played up their charming youthfulness, for which Flo was a big part of IMO, DRATS was a different animal entirely. The Fats Waller routine proves it. They were as good as anyone at what they were doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
Now Flo's voice in the harmony, I would've loved to hear that.
Flo would've killed in that gown. The girl was never fat, overweight, chunky, chubby, or any other adjective used to describe a truly curvy woman. Mary once made a comment about how big Flo looked in comparison to herself and Diana. That to me was a big problem. If those two women are going to be used as the barometer for how a woman should've looked, especially one who had an eating disorder, Flo was always going to fight a losing battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac
Flo has previously mentioned that she felt Gordy wanted her out of the group. Could her lack of dance skills when being compared to Diana and Mary been part of that reason, no matter how small. He was always looking at the big picture and ways to expand the groups appeal. Is it a possibility that more intricate choreography had already been sacrificed when appearing on tv?.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
Flo was definitely dance challenged. Now in some of the early clips like the fabulous appearance on Hullabaloo where they did BIMA and You're Nobody, they had those little turn steps at the beginning of Back. and they 3 girls were flawless. but lots of other times, she could flub little steps here and there.
Probably the most intricate choreography DMF did was Rockabye and the Millie/Rose/Mame medley. and Flo goofs the little kick moves towards the end.
The DRATS did many more complicated medleys than DFM. I Get A Kick, Fats Waller, Funny Girl.
What makes this Fats Waller one just stupendous is that they are flawless. if things weren't as precise, it just looks sloppy and frankly ruins much of the effect. the bit with the kicks and all after the "motown groovy" segment of Diana by herself is the best example. it was imperative that they moved perfectly in time with one another
pretty much every book has said that Berry was just brutal about mistakes. all of the girls were subject to them, with Diana receiving the most of it. there was an absolute demand for perfection. and to some degree he was right. if the group was sloppy in their tv medley appearances and didn't really burst through, would they really have broken into The Copa, into Las Vegas? into the top clubs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
the tv appearances were sort of their "audience" to convince these big white club owners that the Supremes really COULD do all of this. if they girls weren't flawless and perfect, it would have been far too easy for these white owners and mobsters to just write them off and never bothered with them. oh they're black - my patrons wouldn't want to see them anyway. oh they're young they're just dumb kids. oh they're a black pop group but see they can't even handle a simple set of choreography on that tv show - they must be lazy or dumb or not talented or whatever.
motown, berry and the supremes were fighting an uphill battle to gain the respect and praise that we all know they rightfully deserved. any little crack in their perceived perfection could have killed it. or at least greatly hindered it.
And think that was the main Flo problem. the fact that they couldn't rely on her to 1) be flawless 2) show up 3) not be on some emotional high or low simply eroded their confidence in her ability to do the work.
I think Flo genuinely felt that way. And honestly, Gordy may have even said so. [[I seem to recall Flo quoting him as having said so.) But I don't buy that he wanted her gone. Replacing Flo was always a gamble. While some Ross fans enjoy thinking that Flo and Mary were as replaceable as any Vandella or Marvelette, the truth is that it wasn't. The original Supremes were structured and marketed as a three lady group, with identifiable names and personalities, regardless of her role in the group. Gordy knew this. In fact, he was in charge of pushing this image from the beginning, so he was well aware of how the public viewed the group. He didn't want Florence gone until he felt he had no choice. That's not to absolve him of his role in what pushed Flo over the edge. But if the Supremes could stay intact until the end, that would've been preferable for everyone involved. Gordy knew Flo's limits long before 1967. He also knew that, like Cholly and Mary have said, while Flo might have to work on routines a bit longer than the other two, she usually got it down. Cindy made the act slicker because she was just a better dancer. But that's not to say that if Flo had stayed that she would've made the group look bad or unprofessional, or been so challenged that DRATS would have trouble moving on to bigger, better venues. Gordy didn't want to gamble on the Supremes until it appeared that keeping Florence meant a gamble on the Supremes in another way. He placed his bets on Cindy and won.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
Having said that, I just think it's important to point out Cindy's contribution to the group. Flo is my favorite and I'm unabashedly biased when it comes to her and all things Supremes. But it's usually pretty easy for those of us without a fake pro-Ross agenda to remark on how great the group was with Florence, and her contribution to that greatness. Cindy doesn't always get her just due and the Fats Waller Medley is probably the best example of what she brought to the group.
excellent post ran!!Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
in the original group, you had 3 charming and unique personalities. with DRATS, you had Diana of course as the focal point. M and C were more similar in look and how they presented themselves versus M and F. Flo was earthy and all. Cindy were more glamor like Mary. so i think the M and C pair worked beautifully with the ultra glam image of DRATS.
Interesting points, but isn’t Berry documented as mulling over the idea of replacing Flo quite early in the groups success. I think it was mentioned in one of the books on Motown, but can’t quite remember which one. I think he may have been willing to take the risk, but was perhaps talked out of it by others at the company.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
Looking back at the Millie,Rose & Mame routine of 67, Flo is definitely the weakest link. She clearly has problems performing the dance routines and also misses miming cues.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
Mary has said that Flo hated performing those show tunes, so this and the fact she was under incredible pressure at the time may have affected her performance level.
Flo imo had the more interesting voice, but Cindy certainly had her beat on the steps.
i think through much of 65, there wasn't an idea of replacing Flo. it's hard to pinpoint where things started to breakdown.
There's Tony Turner's story that Berry stole People from Flo at the first Copa engagement. but given the highly dubious nature of his stories, i don't put much faith in this.
Flo missed a handful of dates and Marlene subbed for her. There are the pics of Marlene on stage in Detroit at the Grosse Pointe Country Club for a party. i don't know when this was. in the pic they're wearing those long pink gowns that they wore on To Tell The truth and in that pic of them superimposed infront of the stained glass rose window. I believe these gowns were purchased for the Copa in June/July 65. they had Detroit & Michigan appearances in June 65, Aug 65, Jan 66. so maybe around one of those months
plus there are the story that in the dates leading up to their March 66 Copa appearance, Flo was sick and Marlene subbed for her there too.
Randy also mentioned that some time [[again in early 66 i think) there was a planned tour of Scandinavia that was cancelled due to flo being sick and her doc saying she shouldn't go
we do know that Flo missed recording sessions in July 66.
Mary mentioned how things started to unravel during the Orient tour in Sept 66.
Flo wanted out consciously or unconsciously. She herself arranged to be fired because she did not have the psychological strength to voluntarily walk away. Then she played the victim. Hmmmmmm
Me, too! I even made that “like takin’ sips from your tasty lips…” bit into a ringtone!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie9
Fats Waller medley showed that in the DRATS era, Diana Ross talents and star persona/star quality could be showcased without marginalizing Mary and Cindy, and maintain a group performance integrity as well.
I agree. One of the things that make this performance so special is that it was a real group effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spreadinglove21