Thanks Sans! Wow, I had no idea. I played A+'s "All I Need" OUT, but I never had his album. Very interesting use of the sample.
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i wonder if Motown was the one that wasn't wanting a full Mary lead on the lp and figured a duet would at least keep Jean's voice on it, which was familiar to the public.
"Touch" was a horrific mess as a single; Top 40 radio at that moment in time had no place for such a track, it should have remained on the album; and for those who have followed me, I supported the post Ross Supremes and I heavily supported the solo Mary Wilson album, in print in the mags I was writing for, and at retail as I was a Sam Goody department management person when it was released.. all the 'uncivil war' stuff that followed was not to my liking,but it certainly fills the hours for many, I see. I happily support all Supremes and have kept my hand in the game [[who do you think mentioned that Supremes A Go Go was the first album on the Motown imprint label to go go to #1 on Billboard's main Albums chart and also the first album by a female vocal group to go to #1 on that same chart? that info was the lead off sentence on the expanded edition's booklet... so don't paint me with the uncivil war brush" touch' was a weak and harmful choice for a single at a moment when the group was struggling to keep their footing; it was all downhill after that..
I agree, it was not a great choice as a single....Have I Lost You? or Here Comes The Sunrise were more radio friendly. It would have been nice to have the song open the LP, and to have Cindy's roll expanded in lead chores.
all the 'hippie commune' , everyone gets to be the lead, never flew with the general public;the success of The Supremes was predicated on an identifiable lead vocal and when that vocal changed to Jean , the public followed until the tinkering around started, and it was then The Supremes in name only and the public said 'bye, baby'..everyone gets a trophy!! lol
Im a Supremes fan period...they all played a part in the biggest female group EVER and I will never understand all the bitchiness that goes with being a Supremes fan...anyway to the point I was going to say that I think "Touch" was on the wrong album...if it had been on NWBLS and either segued into "Bridge Over Troubled Water" or followed it then I think it would have found its niche...it just seems out of place as a single .
sorry - i might not have been clear on this. I don't think motown was "super duper neg" on Mary leads. But i think they did intend the Supremes to have 1 primary lead singer for the majority of the commercial releases. Now clearly and rightfully they were ok with M and C being highlighted on lines like in Ladder. or the shared leads on an album track like Bridge Over Troubled Water.
I think they could [[and should) have done more like Ladder. For Everybody's Got the Right, i love how [[live) they would get M and C, and later L, a chorus to sing solo. I think that could have worked beautifully on the recorded track too. You still had Jean as the primary lead, anchoring the song. but there's a stronger group presence
As for Touch, I think that same approach would have helped it, but not totally saved it. Jean should have done 80% of the song, especially the first verse or two. Then Mary would have some parts and a couple lines for Cindy.
But i've also listed out a whole slew of other problems with Touch besides simply lead singer.
while i like you're idea of Touch segueing from Bridge, wanted to repost something from another Touch discussion
There's the Touch dj interview version of the LP and the girls discuss the overall process of working with Frank. They talk about how Frank was wanting to tell a full story with the songs and the sequencing. here's my take on that:
This is the story - the pain of heartbreak
Nathan jones - ok you d***, screw you and the horse your rode in on lol
Here comes the sunrise - starting over
love it came to me this time - thanking god for a new love entering your life
Johnny Raven - ok boy, are you a player too? but you're kind of fine so maybe i'll play along
Have I lost you - oh no, not heartbreak again
Time and love - even if it is heartbreak again, time and love will cure all
touch - ok you're bad and that was a HOT night last night. makeup sex can be amazing lol
Happy is a bumpy road - we're together but will this last?
It's so hard - it's not gonna last and i have to go
Motown may have intended the Supremes to have a main lead singer, but if that's the case then Motown would've passed on "Touch" and focused on a Jean led single. Whatever the reason behind "Touch" being a single, something happened from the producer's standpoint of why two leads became a duet. That's what I'm really interested in. What was the rationale from a production standpoint? Was the song always meant to be a duet but Frank wanted each girl to sing a separate lead so that he could get the best parts of both? Did Frank cut "Touch" with the intention of having only one girl lead it and then after hearing the playback decide that he wanted to go in a different direction and thus have another girl do the lead? And then if after all of that, did he suddenly figure neither girl had the clear cut better version but if he took the best of both parts he could create a perfect song?
I am really hoping someone, somewhere, picked Frank Wilson's brain on his work with the Supremes.
Sup_Fan, I totally get what you're saying about having a feeling [[and rightfully so) that you might never see [[CDs) again, so just buying all of them when you had the chance. That's basically how I've spent my entire 32 years of being a Supremes/Motown fan. If you see something and you want it, buy it. Unless the price is absolutely outrageous, you need to just get it. Every once in awhile, I'll see a poster here saying something to the effect of, "I wish I'd bought _____ when it first came out because now it's [[outrageously expensive)." There have been a few things along the way that I wish I'd bought when it first came out, but I've adjusted. I've filled in the collection with a few pricey purchases after-the-fact, but now? If you think you might want something, Supremes, Motown, or anything, just BUY IT. ;)
That's a really good point, RanRan... Maybe "Touch" would've fared better as a love duet--between The Supremes and The Four Tops? It does make sense to either have one [[female) voice singing it [[to her intended) or a man and woman singing it back and forth to one another. I also agree that the song was more suited to Mary's smoky alto than Jean's soprano/her talents. Coulda-woulda-shoulda, but I almost wish Mary circa 1975, after she'd been taking vocal training and seemingly "came into her voice" a bit better, would've been able to sing the "Touch" single in 1971. It definitely needed an assertive delivery, but still sexy. Mary's voice in '71 was a tad thin. Don't get me wrong, though--I like Mary on "Touch"!
Dan I gotta disagree on Mary's vocal approach. I think "Touch" needed a laidback, sexy, airy vocal, not an assertive one. She needed assertive when she sang "Come And Get These Memories", which I think is why I don't care for her lead on that. Mary was brilliant during the later years when she did "Don't Let My Teardrops Bother You" and "You Are the Heart Of Me", both of which needed just what she gave it. But I'm not sure "Touch" needed anything more [[vocally) than what Mary did.
I think Mary did a fine job on Touch and would have preferred her solo version over the duet .imo. but I think Motown felt the public didn't know her and it was made a duet.
i think mary was pushing to establish a larger role for herself within the Supremes post-Diana. she was taking on more of the spokeperson role in interviews, more of the onstage dialog. a large featured solo spot. Then into 71, I think she was pushing for more lead material on lps. of course i'm just speculating here. but i would assume it was coming from mary and not motown.
So frank i think looked at a song like Touch and figured she could do a fine job with it. and i think she did. As they were assembling the lp, i'm assuming they consider both the M and the J solo lead versions of Touch and maybe Frank thought "hmmm perhaps this song is strong enough to be a single." Then since the idea of a full mary lead on a single was pretty remote, they decided to do the duet version.
As much as i love the Frank work, he did do Everybody's Got the Right. which IMO was a poor follow up to Ladder. so i don't think it's that far of a stretch to think he thought Touch would be a superstar. Especially after the Temps just had a huge hit with Just My Imagination which was released in Jan 71
oh the duet idea with the Tops would have been a strong one! it could have easily been part of Return of Mag 7. Jean and Levi doing the bulk but maybe with small lines given out to the rest of them.
I don't know that i fully agree that in 75 mary was coming into her voice. I do agree she was improving but most of her leads on Sup 75 are rather uninspired IMO. Don't Let My Teardrops is a stunner - that's probably her most emotional and accomplished lead during the Sup years. Followed closely by We Should Be Closer.
Can We Love Again was IMO her strongest Sup 75 track. Where Is It I Belong is hideous in nearly every way lol - her lead is dull, the backing vocals are sung well but useless, inane lyrics. Turn Me Around is a strong one though.
I agree sup_fan. I'm not a fan of Mary's voice but I absolutely love Teardrops. I think it's the best thing she ever did and I cant understand why she's never performed as a soloist.
Have to agree with you here. Where is it i belong is just dreadful. Mary's delivery is dull, bland and quite frankly poor, but the song itself is awful and even a good vocalist would have trouble in making that song sound good.
By the time of the final pair of albums she was beginning to find her feet somewhat. Teardrops and you are the heart of me were perfect for her
and she grasped the opportunity. She should have progressed from here. Instead she performed ghastly versions of Supremes classics which were never going to find widespread favour. I am no fan of her vocal ability but i would much rather hear her sing those ballads than those Supremes songs .
i agree. and her live performance on Mike Douglas is probably her best live singing i've seen. excellent
don't know if they ever really added Teardrops to their live material aside from that show. they most certainly should have. and dropped The Way We Were. would be much preferred to have her sing one of HER songs and sing it beautifully.
You Are Heart Of Me seems to only be done as a lip sync which is odd. they did it several times on tv so you would think they would have eventually done it live.
but again, their live work was so hit or miss during this time
I agree with you, which is probably why I have a house full of stuff that I've hoarded over the years and now don't know what to do with!
Seriously, though, I never bought the "This is the Story" Jean Terrell Years Box Set when it first came out because it only had a few previously unreleased tracks on it [[the "Promises Kept" sessions). Later the box set was selling at huge prices on Amazon and even today I see it listed for $400. Luckily, thanks to the great groups of fans here and a very generous member, I was able to buy the box set from him and he didn't even charge me more than the original price.
That led me to buying the sets on Debarge and some others who I honestly never even listened to as a fan, and haven't even played since I bought them!
Could it be their best ever?
I think Motown delivered two great debited for Ross and the Supremes.
Both albums were flawless.
Would love an expanded version of Right On......Life Beats and That's How Much You Made me Love You were two classic out takes
This is an extended version of one of my favorite cuts from the album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXZWPSU03rA&list=PLDGQvwJmd9vwCVv6ssZEVbqr Y-w3Hl8Fm&index=19&t=0s
The most underrated song from Right On IMO. I’m having trouble posting and deleting! It’s- You Move Me.
They sound like soulful angels....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttdqj3rGwy8&app=desktop
I don't know if I would award that, but definitely in the running. While I don't like every song on the album, I can say song for song the album is excellently executed. I feel the same about the Love Child album. I think care went into constructing the tracks for both albums. If it were not for the out of place "Time And Love", I would award Touch the best Supremes album. It's just that one song that throws me off.
Thanks Marv. Perfect description!
I love all the voices on that song. Jean is amazing. Music critics have not given her her due.
Right On is a superb album. and that's absolutely astounding given the number of producers involved.
I don't think it's the best album of the Supremes or even the best Jean album. I think Touch gets that's credit [[even with the dumb Time & Love). This is getting very nit-picky but by the time they did Touch, Jean was a MUCH more developed recording artist. Notice i'm not saying singer - she sang the hell out of tracks on RO. but she gives a much more varied performance with the Touch material. her anguish on This Is The Story, her sassiness on Nathan and Raven, her reverence on Love It Came To me, love and affection on Sunrise and Happy is bumpy. She digs deeper in the material, offers up more compelling vocal performances, experiments more with different tones and approaches.
I love But I Love You More and Then I met You