Oh 144man!!! ...LOL
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I was being facetious when I wrote the above here.
However in a serious article entitled "Business Must Get Off The Fence And Stop Brexit" in yesterday's Evening Standard, City Correspondent Anthony Hilton wrote: "And as for thwarting the will of the people as expressed in the referendum, consider this - by 2019 some two million people from the 2016 electorate will have died and been replaced by a similar number of 18 to 20-year olds. Given no change in the voting preferences between the old and the young, that would give a majority for Remain."
I just don't buy this often quoted argument 144Man .. in the 1975 referendum there was exactly the same pattern, in that the youngest were [[generally) in favour of being in The Common Market and the oldest were [[generally) not in favour ... with the tipping point where "leave" and "remain" were 50-50 being at around age 65. In last year's referendum the tipping point was at around age 40 .. if that trend were to continue by 2019 the tipping point would be down in the upper 30s and there might be a larger majority for "leave" than in 2016.
Certainly, many of those who were in the 18-24 age group in 1975 [[and who would therefore be in their early '60s in 2016) must have changed their minds between the two referendums.
On a more serious note, what is curious about the referendum of 1975, compared with that of 2016 is the way in which the two main parties switched positions on the issue .. in 1975 Labour was split right down the middle [[the big, influential Trade Unions were generally for "out) and The Conservatives were overwhelmingly in favour of being "in" [[with a couple of dozen maverick MPs campaigning for "out") .. in 2016 it was The Conservatives who were split down the middle and Labour who were overwhelmingly in favour of being "in" [[with a handful of maverick MPs campaigning for "out") and most trade unions were for "remain".
I wonder how future historians will view this.
Roger
People are also supposed to get more and more right-wing as they get older. I seem to be travelling in the opposite direction.
Brexiteers have been campaigning for us to leave Europe ever since we first joined the Common Market. It is therefore disingenuous for them to argue that Remoaners have no right to campaign to stay in the EU. Democracy did not suddenly end on the day after the Referendum. If the Country has changed its mind over Brexit, as it has every right to do [[after all, that is why we have general elections every five years), then this fact must be acknowledged.
If or when we leave the EU, no doubt a party called something like REP [Rejoin Europe Party]will be formed, its ranks swollen by the economic disaster that is to come. I shall be one of the first to join.
Good point 144man. Of course you can’t say that out loud or you will be accused of “ignoring democracy”...!
By the way, I think you should go ahead and start up that party! You sound like you know what you’re doing and what you stand for... and that’s a great party name too :p
Oh yea, a quick recap on where we are with this Brexit thing, erm... IT’S A MESS
Theresa May seems to be losing her authority faster than the EU is losing its patience, foreign secretary and all-round laughing stock Boris Johnson keeps making gaffs and undermining Theresa on the sly, and Brexit secretary David Davis seems to be taking the negotiations with the EU less seriously than his own stupid name. LOL
But at least Theresa’s address to the Tory party conference went down well
NOT
Couple of things you might have noticed went wrong with the speech:
1) a man got up from his seat and handed Theresa a fake P45 document [[notification of being sacked!) claiming it was from foreign secretary BoJo
2) Theresa was interrupted on many occasions by, um, her own cough
3) the slogan behind her on the wall, “building a country that works for everyone”, slowly fell apart, letter by letter, until it said “bui ding a c ntry th orks or ryon”
4) part of the speech was actually taken from the US TV show Westwing [[“our capacity to rise to the challenge before us may well be limitless“)
Nice one Theresa :p
Get them out,labour in,
And if you did find you have the energy now you've hit 70, a speed camera would surely catch ya....:[[
The nastiness is not surprising. The most ardent Leavers in the Tory Party included Iain Duncan Smith, John Redwood and Norman Tebbit, the policies and lack of compassion of whom once led Theresa May to quite rightly describe the Conservatives as being perceived as the Nasty Party.
Just as I predicted, Brexit has degenerated into a chaotic farce. Time to put a brake on the whole process until we can achieve some sort of consensus on how to proceed.
I know, 144man. Brexit is a mess. The whole thing might even collapse in on itself.
Attachment 13811
Only one year to go:mad:
ITV News have a Brexit countdown :rolleyes:
All I have to say is welcome to American-style politics.
Considering the "Windrush Scandal" meant that legal residents were treated as illegal immigrants, this does not augur well for EU citizens in the UK after Brexit.
A former town mayor who has lived in Britain for nearly 40 years has been denied citizenship [Metro, May 24]. Inga Lockington, who was mayor of Ipswich in 2007, moved from Denmark when she got married in 1979, and was granted leave to remain for an indefinite period. The 66-year-old applied for UK citizenship after the Brexit vote, but it was denied by the Home Office.
Why does she have to worry about the possibility of being deported when Brexit becomes a reality? That's just plain nasty.
Those c***s in the immigration department are now delaying or refusing to grant visas to relatives of those who died in the Grenfell fire tragedy whereas the relatives of those who died were supposed to be able to attend and pay tribute at the official enquiry.
When did the British "sense of fair play" become a thing of the past?
Boris Johnson was unreliable enough over Brexit. Now you can't even trust him to be able to post a letter:eek:
Only 36 days to go. Now both the Labour and Conservative parties have had defections to a new independent grouping.
If Trump gets elected for a second term, will there be any possibility of California trying to leave the USA?
HA! I forget about this thread. I remember, ages ago, I considered making a daily post on this thread, updating the forum on Brexit.
Boy am I glad I decided against that idea. :rolleyes:
It has been revealed in recent months that California [[and Texas) trying to secede from the union was partly instigated by the Russians looking to disrupt our society with divisiveness.
It has been clear to me that the whole Brexit thing was influenced by a desire to keep non-Whites out of the country. And, again, we have found that it has been influenced by the Russians seeking to destabilize the west. It's working.
I don't know how Chairmen of the Board have managed to get involved in the Brexit debate, but the main headline on the front page of last Friday's Metro was "GIVE MAY JUST A LITTLE MORE TIME...":)
Continuing its musical theme, the main headline on the front page of today's Metro is "STUCK IN THE MUDDLE WITH EU".
There was a recent front page article in the New York Times to the effect that with the attempt to prorogue Parliament we British are now starting to realise how fragile our democracy is owing to the fact that we do not have a written constitution.
Has there been much media coverage in the US about the constitutional crisis in the UK over Brexit and the impasse between the Prime Minister and Parliament?
11.00 and the United Kingdom has left the European Union, probably the biggest mistake this country has made in my lifetime.
Is it too early to start the "campaign to rEtUrn"?
1. Rioting over the Brexit agreement has broken out by Loyalists in Northern Ireland during the last few nights. The politicians, despite warnings, ignored Northern Ireland's peculiar situation. Rioting continued last night despite Loyalist leaders asking for them to stop as a mark of respect on the day of the death of the Duke of Edinburgh. Some loyalty!
The USA and the EU have legitimate interests in protecting the Good Friday agreement.
2. The Pandemic has distorted things so much that we will never be able to ascertain whether leaving the EU was beneficial or not.
3. We would have been able to enact our very successful current vaccination policy even if we had remained a member of the EU.
Chickens tend to come home to roost. For good or ill, choices have consequences.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rce=reddit.comQuote:
EU drivers won’t return to help UK ‘get out of the s***’, says European union boss‘Drivers need way more than a visa’
Adam Forrest
9 hours ago
comments
EU drivers won’t return to help UK ‘get out of the s***’, says European union boss
Lorry drivers from Europe are not keen to return to the UK to help the country “get out of the s***”, said a union leader representing hauliers across the EU.
Boris Johnson’s government is thought to be considering whether to call in soldiers to deliver fuel to petrol stations to address the drastic shortfall in tanker drivers.
The government has also agreed to offer temporary visas to 5,000 foreign heavy goods vehicle [[HGV) drivers in a bid to ease the fuel crisis.
But Edwin Atema, from the Federation of Dutch Trade Unions [[FNV), which represents lorry drivers across the EU, said it would not be enough to tempt drivers.
“The EU workers we speak to will not go to the UK for a short-term visa to help the UK get out of the s*** they created for themselves,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.
The FNV leader added: “It’s not like offering a visa … and the issue will be solved. Drivers need way more than a visa and a pay slip.”
Mr Atema cited poor levels of pay, lack of good facilities and the absence of any collective bargaining agreement for the road transport industry in the UK.
“Drivers from across Europe have completely lost all trust in this industry,” he said. “Long before coronavirus and Brexit this industry was sick already, plagued by exploitation … which ended up with drivers voting with your feet and leaving.”
The FNV representative added: “Drivers need way more than just a visa and a payslip. A Marshall Plan is needed for the whole of Western Europe to drag this entire industry back to the surface where it needs to be.”
The European Road Haulers Association [[UETR), which represents 70 per cent of trucking companies across the EU, has also said lorry drivers who left Britain are unlikely to return.
“I expect many drivers will not return to the UK even if the UK government allows them to,” said Marco Digioia, general secretary of UETR.
“While offering visas to drivers on the continent would be a welcome step, there are many other issues, such as working conditions, pay and the costs of getting into and working in the UK.”
Labour’s shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves said British motorists currently queuing for hours for petrol “couldn’t care less” if tanker drivers are foreign.
“What they want to know is that they can fill up their car or their van and go about the business – so let’s plug those gaps,” said the Labour frontbencher.
Industry leaders have said drafting in the military to deliver fuel to petrol stations across Britain will not on its own end shortages on the forecourt.
The Petrol Retailers Association [[PRA) chairman Brian Madderson confirmed some training had been taking place “in the background” for military personnel.
But he warned it was not an “absolute panacea” and that there was no “single lever” the government could pull to resolve the crisis.
Some fuel supply brands are seeing pumps run dry at as many as 90 per cent of their petrol stations, according to a straw poll by the PRA.
Business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng announced on Sunday that he was temporarily suspending competition laws to allow the industry to share information so it can target areas where fuel supply is running low.
Elizabeth de Jong, policy director at trade association Logistics UK, told BBC Breakfast consumers must stop panic-buying to ease the fuel crisis while the government implements longer-term solutions to tackle HGV driver shortages.
“There’s the shorter-term panic-buying, which if we go back to our normal amounts and almost relax our behaviour and bring it back to normal then that can calm down quite quickly.”
How it started vs How it's going:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAb5dGkW...jpg&name=large
All the Brexiteers do about all that is to blame the pandemic, and to be fair it has to have played its part.
Timing is everything.
From Twitter:
UK goods exports fell 14% in 3 months to Jan v same period in 2020, according to Netherlands Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis. Stark contrast to the global average of an 8.2 per cent rise over the same period.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOx7o9LW...pg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOx7o9KX...pg&name=medium