if that ain’t the pot calling the kettle black
Your summarization of this thread is spot on Ran.. Having a joke and a little dig now and then is one thing, but some of these posts are really nasty and it's not just marv. I can't help but think this is the main reason many Supremes fans decline to post messages on this forum.
I view it as 'When in Rome' - 'The rules of the road' - 'What's good for the gander' etc. To wit: if one poster is allowed, unsanctioned, to express their true opinions of one performer, why would it then be unacceptable for others to do the same regarding another performer? An application of the principles of classical logic and rules of inference would, I'm quite certain, lead us all to the same conclusion. A happy weekend to all!
I guarantee you that it's the only reason many Supremes fans don't participate. I lurked around SD for years before finally joining and throwing my two cents in the ring, and the reason why I took so long was because of that Ross hater who always seemed to be in the middle of some mess, usually a mess that he created. But I figured why should I let some jerk keep me from discussing my favorite vocal group of all time? So here I am. Except now I know that the Ross hater is not alone in his mess. There are some Ross lovers who orchestrate just as much drama...and honestly I think they are even more of a problem than he is because it's more of them. But anyway, I'm willing to bet that Supremes fans are scared away from the forum because of the drama makers. I myself have started taking long stretches of absences from the forum because it does get to be too much and little is done about it. It's not my forum so there aint much I can do.
Let me make clear, once again, the reason this particular room was created. I got tired of putting out fires throughout the forum regarding any and all things Supreme, The deal was, anything goes in this room and I don't have to deal with it. So here it is. You asked for it. Now deal with it without bitching.
I think the Supremes forum has been a fantastic success and both it and the Motown Forum are better for it
There’s tons of activity in the Supremes forum and while it’s easy to get to on a phone, it’s not so easy on a desktop
Having a gadfly inside stirring the honeypot is a great idea too - the bees come flying and rout the gadfly !
Good work Ralph and Lowell! It’s time for us to send in another forum donation
As long as bitches are allowed to come into the forum that you created and add nothing but drama and arguments-because apparently it's a fun thing to do-I'm going to bitch about it. And I never asked for a separate forum, nor did I ever complain about a separate forum. [[Personally I thought that there should be sub forums for all the acts that generate the most activity so as to make it easier to find those posts, but that's just a personal critique.) But I find it strange that if the Supremes forum is allowed to be a free for all without a moderator, you pop in to moderate the people saying its some bullshit that the forum has bad apples in the bunch that frighten away more good apples who would participate. So basically, the bitches whose purpose is to come to the forum and bitch about two former Supremes are allowed to bitch without rebuke, but the folks who complain about it are bitching and should just deal with it? Now aint that a bitch?:p
This thread is dead. Rest in peace.
https://media.giphy.com/media/13Yjln8dW18nEA/giphy.gif
Now that you have had your Bitch Fest Ran, How would you correct the problem?
Thank you, Rob.
Three pages and 100+comments of folks bitching about [[I want to insert "two bitches" here to keep with my bitch theme but that would be so disrespectful to two women I respect so very much) two former Supremes, and I'm the one having a bitch fest? Yeah, okay Ralph. I see you.
But since you asked, my correction would be to remove the problems. No ifs ands or buts. Soulful Detroit is an excellent site. Lots of good people here, so much fantastic Motown and soul music information. If I just wanted to bitch- as you seem to think is my contribution to the forum- there's tons of online sources to do that, such as Youtube, where the comment section makes some of what goes on at Soulful Detroit look like an episode of Mister Rogers'. I've told you before that I understand fully the pressure you're under running this ship. I'm a member of an admin team of a Facebook African American genealogy group, as well as co admin of the forum similar to this one located on the web that was begun because of the popularity of the FB group. So I fully understand the tough job that exist in trying to keep different personalities and headbutting in check. However, tough as it may be, you gotta put your foot down if you find that there's a tone circulating among some that is contradictory to the tone you hope to set for the forum.
Two or three days ago I had this dude post about a conclusion he had come to based on his DNA haplogroup. This started a conversation among some who hoped to get the brother to understand that his conclusion was faulty, and they laid out the reasons why in as respectful a way as you would imagine normal grown folks corresponding. Dude didn't like it and he resorted to name calling and insults. From his photo he looked to me like he was about 19 or 20. I'm always excited when young Black people get interested in their family history, so rather than boot him out, I gave him a warning. Then I found out he was nearly 30. Too old not to know how to disagree without being nasty. He chose not to heed my warning. He is now probably trying to figure out how he can get back into the group, since he's been booted and blocked. As I explained to him, if he can't get his point across without resorting to such nastiness, the group wasn't the place for him. I keep reading the "old timers" in Soulful Detroit saying that Motown people once regularly posted here until they were scared off. Ralph maybe if you took a hard stance against some of them [[and I'm sure you know who they are, if not I'll gladly provide you a list:cool:) the forum would evolve into a place where fans and artists alike could congregate and talk MUSIC again. I am by no means suggesting that this would end all conflicts. Wherever there are people there will be conflicts, but the hope is that adults should be able to resolve said conflicts without reflecting poorly on the rest of the forum. Like I said before, I didn't- and don't- have a problem with a separate Supremes forum, but the fact that you felt the need to create it as a result of the shenanigans that go on here, is sad as hell. I realize I'm not the most popular person here and my contributions are mostly my overrated two cents of an opinion about whatever the subject matter is, but I value this forum as the place where I can talk my kind of music with people who appreciate the music as most of my peers are not of my same musical tastes. So yeah, I'll bitch and have a whole bitchfest to boot to ensure that folks know that there's one [[of many to be sure) who thinks it's enough of the negativity. Dole out consequences for those who can't play nice and you'll see a different forum. That's what I think anyway.
And remember, you asked.:p
Ran, you say to solve any forum problems is to "remove the problem, no ifs ands or buts". How would you handle a long time respected member who just happened to go off on something? It is difficult to look at situations in black and white when there is too much variation involved, creating an enormous gray area to deal with. However, you may have solved your own problem. Simply employ the "ignore" button and your problem is solved. The perp disappears. Try it.
[QUOTE=nathanj06;503169] I apologize for not being clear.
I do not believe the article as written is true. I do not believe Diana Ross requested that Cindy - someone that she personally knows is incapable of attending be banned from the stage. No, I do not believe that.
I do believe, understand, and find no fault with Diana Ross requesting not to be on stage with Mary Wilson. I don’t KNOW if it’s true, but, I believe it could be easily be true. If I were she, it would be true.
[QUOTE=TheMotownManiac;503702] Let's just let it go. I apologize for my part. I honestly cannot stand all these decades of bickering over The Supremes and their individual members. It really has chipped away at their wonderful legacy they all helped to create. Love and admire whomever you choose but let's not get into another hate fest and be so over sensitive about a "girl group" that hasn't existed but maintained their popularity for years. Enjoy those incredible singles and albums we all cherish so much and forget these worthless threads and find something positive to say. I for one am ashamed I even made a previous comment. Keep the peace.
Isn't it a bit contradictory pretending looking for subject about the greatness of The Supremes 'music and then opening a topic whose title refers to the National Inquirer. We know a little bit about what to expect, don't we?
Then, to really know what is happening on such a subject, to judge honestly about who is saying what, you have to read more than 100 interventions! Isn't it a little bit masochist?
All this to take the posture of the wise, sicken to witness so much childishness....
Isn't that adding drama where it already exists.
Since I've been on the forum, and others before, there's been a speaker and his devoted coterie, who uses Diana Ross as a pretext to attack her fans through her. In return, they respond as they feel they should.
Diana Ross seems to provoke that kind of feeling and that's fine. Complainnig is a lost cause, be surprised is dishonest.
None of this is new - a la Beatles, Beyoncé, Madonna - the bigger the star the uglier the talk
It’s just a bunch of idle meaningless chat
I'd remind the long time respected member to stay on course. If that member has as much respect for you and the forum as you and the forum would have for them, they'll cut it out and let a moment where they "just happened to go off" be just that: a moment. We certainly all have them, but you have screennames that have waaaaayyyyyy more than a moment. Sure there are some gray areas, and you'd have to use your judgement on that, but a lot of what goes on around here can't just be gray area. Again, you had to create a whole separate section for the Supremes because adults couldn't discuss the subject without someone going over the deep end in their "devotion" to Mary Wilson and/or Diana Ross. It's ridiculous you were made to feel that this was your only option [[barring the censorship of anything related to the Supremes, I'm sure).
As for the ignore button, you don't have to tell me about that. I've gotten to the point where if a particular screenname smells like trouble, they get blocked. Gotta be around 12 to 15 names. And it is a good tool and it certainly makes my forum time more pleasant. But I don't know if the ignore feature helps potential members considering getting involved in the forum, especially actual artists. I'd rather see the forum grow than to see good contributors leave or get scared off from joining in at all and basically leaving the forum with nothing but the crazies.
But if you're good with the way it is, what can I do or say that would change things? Nothing. And I have to allow you to feel how you feel. But likewise I have to be allowed to say the shenanigans around here are some bullshit because that is how I feel. Peace.
I address that in my first post in this thread. Let me refer you to post #115. Thanks!
I did not read all of that. I read enough. As for being a masochist, I wouldn't go that far but you'll find a bit of response to your question in post #115.
Only in the minds of the ones who get off on the drama. To the ones who do not, it's probably very easy to understand that I value the forum and it's integrity. And because of that, if I feel things can be better, I speak on it. I can't do anything about it except voice my issue. If I had the ability to act on my feelings, things would be different around here and a few people would be gone. Problem solved.
I call BS on this. It's not just that person and his best friend [[I'm certain I know the two you are referencing). Their same antics and shenanigans are mirrored on the other side. Fans can't be attacked through any specific star. Either the poster attacks you or they don't. That "speaker" you're most likely referencing attacked me personally, which is why I would often get in his ass about something. Who gives a shit if he hates Diana Ross and says nasty stuff about her? He aint bad enough to say it to her face, so what? He is nasty enough to insult specific posters. He doesn't need Diana Ross to do it. So the ones who make it a life mission to do the same crap to Mary that he does to Diana are playing the same sick game. And then it goes off the rails, as usual, when it could've all been avoided if everyone was allowed to give their opinion and go home.
She provokes that in certain people, sure. People who have done great things with their lives- and especially when they appear to be as happy as Diana appears to be- tend to be a target for people who probably wish their lives were as rich [[and I don't mean "rich" as in financially either). Diana Ross is a highly respected, very gifted singer. People whose lives may not have always worked out the way they once wished might find some sick joy in targeting her.
Never really surprised by the bull that goes on around here, but until Ralph bans me, I will speak up when necessary if I think it means the forum some good. Are we really at a place in history where speaking up for good things draws more of a backlash than speaking ill?
Do you think this was directed to you? It's not, it's something I think now, and this was the same two month ago and since i'm a Diana Ross fan. Larger than life, imperial Divas, provoque this type of behavior all over the occidental world, and even oriental from what I've been told.
I really don't care about what some writes here, but It's frustrating that all topics involving Diana Ross are obliterated by that this passive-agressive behavior. Since this is not directed towards Diana but her fans, there is no reason to remain polite at all times.
I think of you as "The Force Behind The Power" RanRan. The lyrics to that song most certainly seem to fit.
Pleeeze keep posting "for good always wins the fight" lol.
"But if you give but only words to lift someone higher
Then a heart of gold is what you will be"
Great song! to bad that she doesn't do it anymore
Thanks for clarifying Al. Yes, I thought your post was directed at me. No worries. There is some passive aggressiveness that goes on, but again, it's not just Mary fans. Those barbs go in two different directions and both sides use the excuse that they're only responding to the other, but if you pay close attention to the threads [[both threads starring Diana and those starring Mary) you'll see how this thing really works. But like I said before, it's not my forum so all I can do is speak my peace.
My bet is on Bego as the leaker. He's got another Wilson book coming out and he's leaking Oscar night stories like R Kelly.
Bego? What’s he got to do with anything?
today I got a private message asking why I hate Mary. I had no idea I came across that way. I don’t hate Mary at all. I know Mary. I have her in my cell. She is a kind, fun, thoughtful, caring person who has, on one occasion, shown great care for me. I have respect for her talent and wish her well. If she opens The Carlyle with a new song from a 50s musical - that was my suggestion.
HOWEVER
As a Supremes fan, A Diana fan, I do not like Mary’s .......”behavior, ‘creativity’ and total lack of accountability for her actions concerning the Suptemes and Diana Ross.” Of course, it’s not for me to say how anyone should act - we all chose our paths - and even if we think we know what is best, we are really only thinking what’s best for us. I’ve always felt Diana to be very fragile. I know it seems crazy that this maniacally driven, steel hearted diva is really mush inside, but it’s how I feel. So, Mary’s public attacks really rub me the wrong way as does her rhetoric about loving Diane - as I feel it’s disingenuous based on past behavior and speak. So, I ultimately blame Mary for no Supremes anything for 40 plus years and in a perfect world, would have liked some of that. Ross is hardly blameless, but she’s been fairly open and honest about things.
Other than the Ross/Supremes thing, Mary is great. And anyone can get to know her just by going to her shows and buying a bottle afterwards. I signed on during the 70s, but Mary still enjoys the grape! And she’s fun!
I didn't read your full post [[wayyy too long), but what Bego's Got To Do With It is, as I stated, his probable plant of the ... 'information'. As I said in my post he's regurgitating stories currently so it's my opinion that he planted this story. I don't hate Mary either. It's not Mary's fault that Diana haters cling to her like plastic slipcovers on a faux-leopard print sofa. It ... just ... is.
I didn't read your full post [[wayyy too long), but what Bego's Got To Do With It is, as I stated, his probable plant of the ... 'information'. As I said in my post he's regurgitating stories currently so it's my opinion that he planted this story. I don't hate Mary either. Outside of this forum she does not register a single ping for me. It's not Mary's fault that Diana haters cling to her like plastic slipcovers on a faux-leopard print sofa. It ... just ... is.
Mary should give Bego’s butt a kick goodbye; such clingers do her no favours
NOW I know why Bego was mentioned....... page 6 loves dirt and Mark n Mary love attention, so he prolly was a little tipsy and let his tongue waggle a bit - I don’t know what his intent was but As far as I know he has nothing to do with being a spokes person for Mary so he might’ve been dishing just to gossip, or to get a ttension in the press. Either way I love the Lorna Luft angle “ hit the bunkers” lololol. He creeps me out a bit, but he and Mary are very close friends.