My pleasure. Our patience will be rewarded soon my friend.
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Got my credit card ready to go. Buying two copies.
From Sing HDH, three tracks are over 2 to nearly 3 yrs old: You're Gone [[But Always In My Heart) was the B side to Come See About Me as Always In My Heart, Love Is In Our Hearts and Remove This Doubt were from early 1964. I noticed when I first purchased the lp that those three tracks don't have the polish of the rest of the lp. Diana was more nasal on those tracks and the piano work on Remove dated it to me.
does anyone know the timeline for the HDH work slowdown and when they really departed Motown?
Sing HDH was released in January
In late 66 and early 67 focused on their concept albums - Sing R&H [[October time period and produced by Askey) and then Broadway to Hollywood sessions [[which were produced by HDH in oct and nov)
then in Jan 67 they were working on the Disney material with producer Michael Gentile.
In spring 67 HDH did various work on Reflections, The Happening, In and out of love, All I Know about you and Forever Came Today and a few others
In October 67, HDH worked with D, M and C on Heaven Must Have Sent You and some of the Reflections lp tracks.
In December 67 they were doing some of the gospel recordings [[what a friend, every time I feel). They also worked on I'm Gonna Make It. was that still HDH? or were they gone?
Of the Reflections
I'm pretty sure HDH were out before the end of the year. They did a few sessions in October for Chuck Jackson and the Isley Brothers on the track "I Can't Go On Sharing Your Love." In November they finished "Helpless" for Chuck Jackson, cut the track for "I'm In A Different World," and did some sessions with the Supremes. I believe the last recording session they oversaw were the background vocals for the Four Tops' "I'm In A Different World" which was December 13, 1967. R Dean Taylor supervised Levi's lead in April 1968.
I always thought R Dean Taylor oversaw Diana's vocal on "Forever Came Today." I know he oversaw Levi's vocal on "I'm In A Different World." Maybe he did it on behalf of them? I don't think there were any new HDH recordings in 1968. I'm pretty sure "I'm In A Different World" was the last track they cut.
according to the Four Tops 50th anniversary singles set, it states that I'm In A Different World is the last HDH recording session. now what part of the song and what session, we don't know. was it the final vocal? was it the instrumental track? no idea
I too had heard that Forever Came Today was unfinished and that other producers completed it after HDH split. It does seem that HDH didn't make a regular habit of using the Andantes exclusively on the Supremes records. sure there are some tracks that were recorded using the Andantes and then shifted around until Diana put down a lead vocal. it doesn't seem that Forever was one of these - I'm pretty sure they intended it for the Sups. maybe they did the backing track and the lead and then another producer came in for the backgrounds? just guessing here
I’m pretty positive the last recording session they supervised was the Four Tops/Andantes background vocals on “I’m In A Different World” on December 13, 1967. Everything after that I believe was overseen by R Dean Taylor thus why he is credited as producer on the song.
“Forever Came Today” was cut in spring of 1967 and assigned to the Miracles. It may have been one of those tracks Motown pulled from the vaults for them to record so they could get an HDH product out there. I don’t know if HDH supervised the background and lead vocal sessions, but I’m leaning toward they didn’t. They were done by that time.
good info Brad! I didn't realize Deke was listed as a producer for World.
Both World and Forever represent interesting "what if" scenarios. neither charted particularly well. and it seems that [[perhaps) neither were really completed by HDH. so we could speculate if these songs, in their current finished format, are really what HDH envisioned. would they have done some thing differently and potentially made them more commercial?
World seems like it should have been a hit. love that song. the intro is rather abrupt. and perhaps have Reach Out, Standing and Bernadette it's just not quite unique enough. but I think it should have done better
Forever is a fascinating song but I think not a good single choice. the melody and lyric just aren't as commercial. it doesn't do as well with my "whistle test" lol. hard to hum along and sing and the tune just doesn't stick in your mind like other Sup hits.
although this is a bit off topic of Sing HDH, the recent discussions around timing of their departure, the last recordings, etc prompted me to do some reading on Wikipedia. on the page for In and Out Of Love, in the style/genre description it identifies this song as Sunshine Pop, a category that features the 5th Dimension, Mamas and the Papas, Beach Boys and others.
to me, this finally helped make some sense of this song and what they were doing with it. made me reconsider the entire Reflections lp. obviously the sound of songs like Reflections/Forever/bah bah bah are quite different from In and Out of love/Up Up Away. But both are influenced by California pop - sunshine pop and psychedelic pop.
so while I'm still not a huge fan of In and Out, the context of the album and the tracks makes a bit more sense
I’ve always liked In and Out of Love but it is a bit odd. Happy go lucky music and sad lyrics.
I ve always liked In and Out Of love also and thought it was different. I liked the live version as well but I would one day like to hear the original version without the Andantees,...if it exits. last I heard it did not. but since they seem to find things every expanded edition,.....maybe.
not sure who finished the Reflections lp but there were some clunkers. FCT always sounded like a demo to me
A version of In and Out of Lovewith just Mary and Flo. Worth a listen to
I always thought "Different World" and "Forever Came Today" were very similar songs. They're both in the same style and gave an indication of a possible direction HDH may have been taking the Supremes and Four Tops. Both songs are more complex and have seriousness to them about a profound life-changing love. Much different from their earlier songs like "Baby Love," "You Can't Hurry Love," and "I Can't Help Myself." It's a shame neither song chartered higher on the charts, but I think its due to their complexity and structure. They're weren't simple songs. Regardless, I think they are both beautiful and are some of HDH's best work.
i wonder how HDH would have responded to the emergence of the heavier, more rock-influenced sounds of the late 60s. look at what Whitfield jumped into - how would HDH have entered that field?
not to say that they'd have given the Sups something that strong. but wonder what HDH's "Love Child" could have been?
aside from LC, most of the Sups late 60s content was still pretty innocuous. there are some attempts to broaden their sound - You Gave me Love, I'm So Glad I Got Somebody, Discover Me.
I guess it's anyone's guess what sound they could have gone with. Judging by "Reflections," "I'm In A Different World," and "Forever Came Today," my guess the sound they were aiming for would have been a more mature, complex sound. I'm not sure how if it would have worked. As incredible HDH were, they were losing their grip a bit on number one strongholds by mid-1967, but they were able to adapt and no doubt would have changed formulas if needed. Take a listen to Chuck Jackson's "Helpless," one of the last songs HDH produced at Motown. The intro of organ, french horn, oboe, bass, drum, and violin was quite different from previous arrangements of the song and shows their experimenting with orchestral instruments in songs. How many soul songs opened with an oboe and french horn? They used an accordion in "Reflections" too. We don't have anything to judge them by between 1968-late 1969 until the Honey Cone's "While You're Out Looking For Sugar" which was a throwback to their familiar 4-on-the-floor sound. Their Hot Wax/Invictus recordings are definitely what I like to think of as a "neo-Motown" sound although not as adventurous or daring as what they did when they were with Motown.
My thought: I think that the expanded editions of REFLECTIONS, LET THE SUNSHINE IN, and CREAM OF THE CROP should be combined into one package identical to The Marvelettes two “Forever” compilations. Since those three DRATS albums have so many tracks that cross over the years, there could be both stereo and mono versions plus a disc of unreleased/alternate versions. The booklet would be the perfect place to annotate the legacy of these albums and explain the timeline of the individual tracks and how they came to be included on the various albums. This multi album collection would be an excellent finale to the Diana years.
Oh, I did not forget LOVE CHILD. Of course, it could well be included in this same multi disc set. However, I’m thinking that it might stand alone as an expanded edition. Of course, no one asked me. :-)
yeah i had looked at their Invictus material to see if it would have provided any insights as to what could have been at Motown. and frankly, although the stuff is nice, it's not breaking new ground. some songs hit pretty well but nothing made an impact on the overall music scene like their classic Motown stuff. and sometimes people run out of new things. HDH don't really strike me as hard-core r&b producers, like what was emerging in the late 60s and early 70s. they were more on the pop side of things, IMO
The version I had definitely didn't have Flo or Mary or Cindy on backing vocals. In fact I remember HATING the backing vocals. I thought it sounded like crap. [[Now to be fair, I haven't heard that version since at least 2005- the last time I remember seeing my cd- and there are quite a few musical opinions I held then that I have since changed my mind about.) How happy I will be if there is an early version in the vaults with Florence and Mary on backing vocals.
I agree - I hate the bg on that song. If ever a song needed DMF and only DMF, it was that one!
Freda Payne's Invictus album "Contact" starts off with a medley of "I'm Not Getting Any Better" and "Suddenly It's Yesterday" which structurally takes the style of "I'm In A Different World" and "Forever Came Today" into further extreme levels of complexity. I'm sure this is the direction that HDH would have propelled a solo Diana Ross. In fact "Suddenly It's Yesterday" even has a theme similar to "Reflections".
No problem with the Andantes being on a song instead of Supremes. They had the best best harmonies. The heavenly harmonies blows others out of the water.
I too did not like the background vocals on Forever Came Today. What I do not like is the arrangement for the backup vocals, not the gals singing them. The Andantes are great if their vocal arrangement is great.
I don't deny the fact that the Andantes had great vocal skills. their ability to harmonize is top notch.
But there's something about their tone that I've never really cared for. it's very clear on Forever, Love Child and many other DRATS recordings. I don't know how to really describe what it is that I don't care for. something about their vowel formation or something. and not sure if it's mostly 1 voice or the blended combination of the three.
now there are other songs where I find them enjoyable - many of the four tops recordings.
I think the bg vocals on Diana solos [[reach out, mountain and many others) and the four tops Still Water work is much preferred to the Andantes on the DRATS stuff. Perhaps it's the arrangements or keys they're singing in on certain songs. or maybe who's taking the soprano 1 part. I definitely like the Supremes backing vocals after Cindy shifted back to soprano 2 parts. I think her voice is weak on certain DRATS songs [[on the few times they used her) as they had her doing the top harmony with Diana in the middle. with the "new Supremes" Jean often took the top harmony which allowed cindy to move to the middle. jean's soprano tones are stronger and fuller than cindy's, which works better for the upper harmonies.
I do not like the backup arrangement for I's Livin' in Pure Shame. It would have been a bigger hit with a less shrill backup vocal.
I think Cindy with her airy soprano adds a great element to I’m Gonna Make you love me, with the Tempts
I can’t understand one word of what the bg on Forever is except when copying the lead. I think the mix is too gospelish- the voices seem heavy, I would have preferred the clean, clear sound of Mary and Flo. Although they i’m Not nuts about the bg on Reflections either. It’s all TOO gospelish for me on these songs. I want to hear what they are singing - not discuss for literally 50 years what it might be. I love The A’s on many songs - not these. They are perfect on Love Child. Actually, I also love The Blackberries On No Matter What Sign You Are and on TMITM tracks. In most cases, I do not care for the sound of Mary & Cindy alone on record. Flo’s clear, crisp soprano pierced and livened Mary’s rich, lush alto. Cindy, to me, sounds hushed and weak and dullifies Mary’s sound. Hey, I made up a word! I think. Dullify?
Ahhh like the riddle of the sphinx!! what are the bg to Forever Came Today! lol
there's been several posts on here and I think this was the most accurate:
"Ahhhhh, Got My Man At Last, My My MY My Loneliness Has Passed..."
I definitely agree. The background vocals on a lot of songs that are way too low. Like on LOVING YOU IS BETTER THAN EVER.
Come on Universal we are ready for a release date :-)
exactly Universal....they cant even give us a release date