They admired each other -
There are some entertainers that you don't compare because they are in their own place in history.
Aretha, Whitney, Diana, Nancy. Michael and Elton.
There was a Tribute to Diana Ross that I remember Whitney singing on.
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This one? :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK3qzIyo8b8
You seem to have difficulties following your own rules ! A few weeks ago, you were full of pride that Mary Willson called Donna Summer "her friend". Yet she didn't even know she was sick. What kind of friendship this is?
she was as friend to Donna that Diana is to Beyonce.
Does it make Mary Wilson a sociopath?
Just wanted to pop in and thank you folks for some of the nice comments here. What I've learned is that if you're in the public eye and you're around long enough, eventually your old TV appearances will pop up to mortify you over and over and over again.
What can I say about that Joan Rivers appearance? I remember it well; it was my first national TV show and, boy... what a day. I remember sitting in the make up room getting a nice varnishing on my face of what seemed like all the amber waves of grain rolled into one coat of paint when Joan walked in. "First time on TV, kid," she said. "Nervous?" she asked me. I scoffed. Me? Nervous? That'll be the day, I thought. "Heck, no," I told her, full of confidence. "I'm just gonna be myself." She looked aghast. "Oh my dear," she said, shaking her head. "You will have to be SO MUCH MORE that just yourself!" Okay... I thought, NOW I'm nervous.
So much craziness happened that day. My friends know all the stories; one day I'll write about them, maybe.
Indeed, what can I say about this show and all of the others relating to Call Her Miss Ross? I was barely 30... dumb in so many ways... giving it my best shot... hoping to not look like an idiot... you know... a heady experience and pretty much what you'd expect for a guy who, prior to this time, could barely afford to eat spaghetti and Ragu with his best friend, George Solomon [[and, believe me, for the two of us, that was a big night; we probably had a collective fifty cents to our names.)
Call Her Miss Ross holds an assortment of bittersweet memories for me. My first New York Times best seller, it's still my most popular title even though it's been out of print for something like 25 years. [[It's that cover! What a cover!) I've had 14 New York Times best sellers since that one, but none can compare to the impact CHMR had on me, my audience [[and on Miss Ross, too, I dare say.) I've had dozens of opportunities to re-issue that book over the years - as recently as last year, actually - but have always declined. Why? Because as someone here so wisely opined, it was of a very specific time and place back in the 1980s, and it will always belong there, frozen for all eternity. Yes, I admit, I do cringe when I read a lot of it. I had always wanted a re-do. And I had that opportunity 12 years ago when I wrote a third Diana biography and was able to clean up all the ... well... naivete, I guess [[trying to be kind to myself here)... of CHMR. That said, I'm still proud of CHMR; a lot of people over the years have said it made them love Diana more, not less. My friends and family know how I feel about her and about all of the Supremes. Of course they do, and I think my readers do, as well.
It's been many years now since I have had the chance to write about any of my childhood heroes, and I really miss those days. I look at this wide-eyed youngster on this video and I think, kid... you don't have a freakin' clue, do you? You don't know a thing about life... about love... about how complicated relationships are...about anything actually. But I know you're doing the best you can with what you have to work with - just maybe don't smile so much when telling these terrible stories, alright? :-)
So, yeah... 30 years later, when these things pop up out of nowhere, I have to smile and acknowledge the incredible journey I've had. YouTube keeps you humble, that's for sure, but also grateful.
Thank you for posting this little slice of my history and reminding me of what was then... and what's now. Also, I want to thank you guys - any of you who have supported me since I was a kid and watched me grow up with the passing of one decade after another... after another. I think after all this time, you know my heart. For sure, I know yours, too. And as for Miss Ross and all of the Supremes. How lucky have we been?! How truly LUCKY have we been to have been able to live in this world ... with them?
Glad to see you have joined the forum. It is good that you will be able to see first hand some of the comments about Ms Ross. As you can see there is one particular member who is very vocal in his hatred for Diana. Maybe he will draw his horns in a little now he knows you are watching.
Enjoy the forum!
Hi Randy, and welcome. I'll pass on your mortifying appearance and start anew! As you may have seen there are several [[!) level-headed posters here who will welcome your information. And yes, what a wonderful world it has been to have witnessed the Supremes and to remain witnessing the once-in-a-lifetime Diana Ross. I wish you well and look forward to your biographies.
Thanks Randy
LOL -- I knew you were here !!
We were all young once but we all knew you loved the Supremes.
About « call her Miss Ross », Rupaul stated
« Love her even more after this one »
Diana said in a Larry King interview that her lawyers advised her that it was best not to sue because she would have to sit through long depositions and it would be time consuming but she regretted that she did not sue.
Cindy Birdsong may have told him the story. According to the book Diana shared the story with her.
Okay I'll say it. I loved Call Her Miss Ross, The Music and the Madness, AND Dreamgirl. When I read those books, I found Diana Ross to be an odd, quirky, career driven woman who made it all happen for herself. I am always confused by people who want to just say DR came off as a bitch. I never saw her that way! She was just hyper-focused, egotistical and sometimes thoughtless when it came to other people. That doesn't make her a bitch IMO. She never maliciously stomped on anybody and was almost always complimentary and gracious regarding the other Supremes and/or other performers.It seems to me that she has a very precise view of herself and although many people got left high and dry along the way, it wasn't her fault. Diana's story is fascinating--people like us are still talking about her 60 years later! She was one of a kind and still is.
Diana is a very complex person. It's easy to dismiss her as some prima-donna who would throw tantrums when she didn't get what she want. Even Marvin Gaye admitted that Diana was a hard worker and admitted he was wrong for coming at her the way he did when they worked on their album. Sometimes I wish Diana had written that second book just so she can clear the air on what happened all those years ago. I know those rumors really got to her though. Diana strikes me as a person who wants to stay positive and remain positive and she has her reasons - five children and four grandchildren [[last I checked). The fact she came off as a great mother and grandmother further convinces me that what has been written about her was dead wrong.
RanRan I loved your post about family. I never had that, unfortunately. Good man.
I do love her even more for sure. It was easy to read between the biased lines.Quote:
"Yes, I admit, I do cringe when I read a lot of it. I had always wanted a re-do. And I had that opportunity 12 years ago when I wrote a third Diana biography and was able to clean up all the ... well... naivete, I guess [[trying to be kind to myself here)... of CHMR. That said, I'm still proud of CHMR; a lot of people over the years have said it made them love Diana more, not less. My friends and family know how I feel about her and about all of the Supremes. Of course they do, and I think my readers do, as well."
There have been tons of first rate testimony claiming she can be impossible to work with... Or that she can be very wise and tolerant.
There is an interview with Barbara Walters where she laughs when she heard the interviewer say "you are describe as a temperamental Diva that demands everything"
I did not end up disliking her after reading Miss Ross and Dreamgirl. I liked all three even more because it humanized them. Diana seeking parental attention and getting it from Gordy/Motown and the public, Flo who suffered a tragedy and then harbored mistrust of everyone because of that and Mary who was given to an Aunt felt abandoned and tries to make a family with her group and her friends who also did not rock the boat or say how she felt so she would not be abandoned again. They were human beings and they all do love each other because they shared the Supremes with each other even if there were personal differences that they did not like. Ross was very driven and if you pamper and give into the whims of anyone they will not act perfectly. I know I read something Cindy said that they were all good Moms and that should say alot about each of them even if they are all far from perfect human beings. I liked those books because if in any of there places-Diana, Mary, Flo,Cindy, Jean and Scherrie-what would your actions be if you were in their place? It would be a different life than the one you have now. The books helped humanize them and no reason to judge, just to enjoy ALL of their talents, which are immense.
I wasn't endeared to Diana after reading either Dreamgirl, CHMR or All That Glittered. I was young and reading these things at surface value. It wasn't until I was older that I started seeing through the crap. Not that the books were crap [[except for Glittered, the fairytale of a POS), but with age comes experience, and hopefully maturity, and one starts to see the story different. I realized Diana was as human as the rest of us. The same goes for the other Supremes. One of my favorite sayings is that we're all the villain in somebody else's story. That's why I'm always so amazed at how many people take up the mantle of real or imagined wrongs on behalf of Florence and Mary where Diana is concerned. I once posed the question in this forum: what would books written about you say, especially during your youth? In recent years I've looked back over my life and begun to realize that I romanticized certain aspects of myself when I was younger. I didn't see it then, but I was definitely a villain in a few stories. I have no room to judge. But we all live in glass houses, and yet some still find a way to fling rocks.
The thing all these books have in common, and what ultimately is viewed as negative, is the time period they were released. These books were all part of that 80’s [[early 90’s) set of trashy auto/biographies , therefore in the literary world, are not taken seriously.
I was in my mid 20's when I read Dreamgirl and already knew a bit about the drama from reading youtube comments :p. Probably why I got the book in the end. Just wanted to know what the people they were discussing had to say for themselves. I eventually got secrets of Sparrow too. Problem with books like these is that it's easy to take someone's side and take their word for it. Just because some don't get along doesn't mean that it's the same for you.
Oh Lord, I pray no one would ever write a book about me in my late teens/early 20s. I look back at my behavior and some of the mean things that came out of my mouth and am shocked I was not punched in the face more than the few times I was lol. I can honestly say though the person I am today is very laid back and earthy, that's not who I was back then. Point is: we all evolve in life [[most of us at least).
"I did then what I knew to do. Now that I know better, I do better." Maya Angelou
Exactly! And I'd offer that we tend to do this even when speaking to someone in person. If they sit down with you and tell you stuff going on, or has gone on, in their lives, the tendency is to get wrapped up in this person's versions of events. But that's just it: it's their version. On the flip, there are some who demonize Mary for writing both of her books because every page isn't a love letter to Diana Ross. Now I will not back down from my criticism that some of the stuff in Mary's books was not Mary's business to tell, but she was certainly free to write about her feelings. She felt slighted, she felt disrespected, she felt overlooked, she felt undervalued. And there are people who question why she should've felt like that. Wtf? Whether that was Gordy or even Diana's intention to make Mary, or even Florence, feel some type of negative way, the reality is that they perceived certain things, correct or false, and had human reactions to it. Does that mean that everything Mary or Diana or anyone else in the Motown stable wrote is 100 percent accurate? Nope. But it's how they remember it. Of course I'm sure there are instances where outright lies have been printed. News flash: people lie. That cannot come as a surprise. But to take sides, like you even know these people, or were present for anything, is just a real bad look.
I can't remember where I heard it originally, but I've used it a number of times over the last couple years, especially when telling someone -in the nicest way possible- to shut the fuck up, there isn't a saint in the room. Some folks forget their own dirt. Or hope you do.:rolleyes:
LOL I know what you mean. I never realized how reckless my mouth was back in the day. Not that I was in danger of getting punched. You walk in this direction like you plan on doing something and you won't be walking back, or walking at all. But I was definitely nastier than I remember being. Definitely had some mean moments. And then there was the stuff that wasn't nasty or mean, but boy I wouldn't want them documented for the world to see.:p
I've always been a pussy, still am, till things get too much and the F word gets a place in front of every single word lol. I always forget to a certain extend that the Supremes were only teens when they joined Motown. While most, including myself, are still going to school, college or whatever at that age they, the Supremes, were touring and doing show after show. I'm sure they got on each others nerves and had moments when they fell out. It's only normal and especially at that age and older when you spend so much time together. Only when you get all the once involved together we can get a true story, to a certain extend. But that's never going to happen :rolleyes:. Isn't a bit drama what keeps things going, especially, in this part of the forum.
What we need to understand: the Supremes were all KIDS when they started in the music business.
They formed the group together - or better yet they were "put together", in 1959, ages ranging from 15 to 16 [[only Betty McGlown was the eldest at 17). The original four were kids. Barbara Martin was 17 when she replaced a departing Betty in 1960 when she married that year at the age of 18.
By the time Barbara departed in early 1962, you had a trio that had been together and they were yet in their 20s [[Florence was 19 that June, Diana and Mary turned 18 that March). YOUNG. Way younger than the other groups [[save for the Marvelettes, who were mostly under the ages of 16-17 when "Please Mr. Postman" came out so those two groups were practically the same age - Martha and the Vandellas by comparison were the oldest of the three "star" girl groups by two, three years).
There was a reason the Supremes were called "the girls" in 1960 [[and by the time they signed in 1961, "Berry's girls"). Problem is some don't think black people should be able to be "young". We are already called "men" and "women" by our mid-teens so the way Diana, Mary and Flo all get attacked for their actions are not like "oh they're just kids, they don't know better" but more like "look at these women". Plus, they were victims of male aggression at some form or another [[Flo being r*ped, Diana being sexually assaulted at a party, etc.).
They were two years out of high school when "Where Did Our Love Go", "Baby Love" and "Come See About Me" turn them into superstars and Diana and Mary were barely 20 years old. Florence was kicked out of the group shortly after turning 23. Diana was 25 when she left for her solo career. Mary was only 33 when the group disbanded and only 42 when she released the "Dreamgirl" book.
Whenever you read books about celebrities that reportedly had "bad behavior", there's a reason for them acting out. And it doesn't make sense if you just read it from one side of the spectrum. I read from all three sides: from Mary's side, Diana's and Florence's. Three of them experienced the group three different ways. And instead of taking one side, I take all three sides and see a common ground in all of them. I'm not gonna judge a 76-year-old Diana Ross on what she did in 1963, just like I wouldn't judge a 76-year-old Mary Wilson for what she did in 1974.
What's important is the legacy of the group and I'm sure Diana and Mary can smile broadly knowing they made history [[Florence surely came to terms with her history and found peace and happiness in listening to the Supremes' stuff as she told Peter Benjaminson) and that's what should be important to spread. Drama is fun but that's only part of what made the Supremes special to the public. And I just hope people remember that when the obituaries for Mary and Diana come.
All I will say is Randy is an excellent writer and has written at least 3 books on Diana. I think he is still a fan and I believe he use to run one of the fan clubs.
My two pennies on Randy.
I think he really, really, really loves Diana Ross. In the mid-1980s wrote a very - um, fawning - book on Diana called Diana that had a lot research, had a lot of detail, and was very well written. But it didn’t sell. So ten years later, he recycled much of it - and I mean huge tracts of Diana was taken without any changes - and turned it into the tabloid-feeding Call Her Miss Ross. Nice books on celebrities don’t sell. Ones that dish the dirt fly off the shelves. I think he did it to make serious money, and to make a name for himself. And it worked, establishing him as a biographer of note. Biographies on Madonna, Jackie Onassis, Liz Taylor etc., followed.
He then updated the same material again into Diana Ross - A Biography that removed the more salacious bits from Call Her Miss Ross, such as interviews from disgruntled ex-staff, turning it into what I think is the definitive Ross biography. It’s a very honest and positive book.
I do wonder what his relationship with Miss Ross is like now.
Randy is a horror, a nasty little bitch. In the interview he is embarrassingly camp. He made his name from making up and exaggerating stories about Diana. Avoid at all costs.
I love Randy. I think he's pretty fair in his books.
He obviously loved and knew Diana as a fan who followed her.
I believe he may have interviewed her once - maybe; I can't quite remember.
As she said once "And this guy Randy, he wrote a book about me; he doesn't know me".
I think grangertim hit the nail on the head; just like Mary Wilson, Randy had to put in some spice or the book wouldn't sell. So they did what was necessary.
Neither of them did any lasting damage and they both made some money.
He interviewed her at least 9 times not once
[QUOTE=jobeterob;589124
Neither of them did any lasting damage and they both made some money.[/QUOTE]
i beg to differ, her career never recovered
Randy is an excellent reporter. I find his books to be quite informative. I don't think any of the books written by Randy or Mary or Diana, for that matter has done anything to negatively impact any of their careers. They are not saints, they are human beings. Reading all of the books made me like them more as they showed a human side to the star facade that the entertainment business uses. And to be honest, no one really sees what their own faults are or care to admit it, especially to the press[[and stars to their fans).
Ross started to decline prior to those books-the 1985 singles Eaten Alive hit #77 and Chain Reaction only hit #95 and that was with the magic touch of Michael Jackson and Barry Gibb, who had huge success with everyone else they worked with. Her choices going forward were all poor. Workin Overtime was the wrong choice at the wrong time for a legend. I was surprised EDIAND didn't do well since it was pretty decent and featured on Double Platinum but by then the focus was more on Brandy. The books may have reaffirmed the perception of people about what they think they know about her but if the music is good enough, it wouldn't matter. Barbra Streisand is well known to be such a perfectionist amid many accusations back to Funny Girl and A Star is Born[[remember the press on that?) yet has hit the charts regardless because of the music. And, I don't find them to be killer tell-all's. They weren't Diana Dearest in any regards. Plus, haven't the posters here been relishing on how the remakes of Ross' old songs have been hitting #1 on the dance charts? That she sells out in Vegas? I am sure Ross may have been hurt because some of her behavior had been exposed but there was nothing in either Randy's or Mary's books that were terrible enough to make the mass public turn on her. I think Ross' reaction to the negative publicity and her lack of any good musical material were more in line to that then those books. I especially ended up liking all of them more from Mary's book-Diana was a driven and aggressive person who was dealing with the spotlight, I saw nothing mean spirited towards her singing partners, just that she was totally focused on herself and what was happening to her. I liked Florence because she told it like it is, had her own personal trauma which made it hard for her to trust people and Mary was a hard worker who was the great balancing act dealing with how her 2 friends were going in opposite directions while dealing with Gordy's shameful assertions about her talent. Of course, in those days of Mommie Dearest, people did look only for whatever negativity they could find and focus on that. Quite frankly, Randy's books as well as Mary's were not the killer tell all's that legend would have you believe.
Come on, guys. Mary's book made me a fan and I am sure I am not the only one. The Supremes were about to be assigned to the dust bin of history when it came out. If not for those outrageous stories about outrageous DR, the book would have sunk and nobody would have cared. Because of Mary's book, I bought Supreme Faith, Martha's book, all the Temptations books, etc. Dreamgirl, along with the Big Chill movie, gave all these performers a second lease on life. As a kid of the 70's, the only Motown acts I knew were of the second and third waves at Motown, and being on that label in the 70's meant pretty much nothing to the younger audience. Marvin, The Supremes, Tempts, Tops and all the rest of the 60's first wave were definitely "of Motown" and it was a selling point in those years. Few people thought of the commodores or Rick James or even High Inergy as Motown groups. Anyway, I think Dreamgirl and Call Her Miss Ross and all the other books HELPED. I don't believe for one second that that book caused DR to fail on the charts--in fact, who of her 60's peers were getting big pop hits by the mid 80's? Very few.