It's all very difficult. I just saw my sister at church and asked about my nephew and she said that he won't seek help because he doesn't acknowledge having a problem. It's interesting that we both are witness to a similar situation.
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It's all very difficult. I just saw my sister at church and asked about my nephew and she said that he won't seek help because he doesn't acknowledge having a problem. It's interesting that we both are witness to a similar situation.
I think this is what is often considered to be a 'classic' scenario, and one that is quite common - but often concealed by loved ones, much of it behind closed doors.
The affected person, in a sense, returns to the womb, and acts as if in complete denial.
Of course, their nearest are also very much affected, probably more so. They are obliged to share the experience as a very subjective one for them, but also having at times at least to attempt to be objective, simply to cope.
And then, very often, a point is reached when the loved one's needs become so acute, it is in their own best interests for them to be taken into care for qualified, specialised medical treatment and nursing, not as the person they once were, but as a patient in the first instance.
It must test the emotional resources of even the strongest and bravest of people.
Which calls to mind the following....
"But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many people strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism" - Desiderata/Max Ehrmann
Westgrand, you are right on the money. My sister had some idea that my mother wasn't a perfect mother in HER eyes [[what it is that she expected is anybody's guess). We were fed, clothed, and a roof over our heads. We had both parents. What you have to ask yourself [[and my mother) was: did she do the best she could? The answer is an overwhelmingly "YES." But my sister hangs on to resentment/anger forever [[I am not kidding on this.) She lost her husband over 20 yrs ago to leukemia & still hasn't gotten over it [[i.e. anger that he left her). Funny that both my mother and my sister exhibit the same traits [[always right & always right to the death-defying finish). She needs to let go but won't. So sad, but no one else can do it for her.
We are all unique individuals, there's no doubt about it, but the more we talk here, the more it seems we are the same.
I can only think that there are but a few basic variations to the way human nature works.
My sister [[I came first, then my sister 18 months later - another little girl followed 5-6 years later, but didn't make it) did not have quite the same eye-to-eye relationship with my Mum as I did. My Mum felt she was a tomboy, and rather unruly. I was biddable, quite easy to please, and largely happy in my own company. It still seems to rankle with my sister that she felt our parents thought I was the brighter [[while we were treated differently, it was to equal degrees) and also that it was easier for me being a boy.
Her husband [[my brother-in-law) died early 2004, some months after being diagnosed with a brain tumour. I felt for her, and still do, but she developed a real attitude about it. I can quite understand why she would, but I just wish she didn't. Towards the end of his life, my brother-in-law started to make some decisions with finance which could have been thought through a little more, which meant my sister did not have as much to her name when he died as she thought - but neither was she short, as an insurance policy paid out. She has some very good qualities but it doesn't take much to start her off about it [["I'm a widow..."), but I don't hear her count her blessings.
I know my/our Mum was sometimes dismayed at the way my sister could be [[and maybe the way I was, too, in my way!) but I now find I feel the same way about my sister as she did. If my sister doesn't agree with something I say, she raises her voice, or becomes indignant and confrontational, often for things which aren't too important. There's a very strong trigger at work, that she just cannot get over. If I keep calm and evenhanded, she feels I'm being patronising. My view is we are only ever patronised if we feel ourselves to be.
We communicate best via the written word, and there is a county between our residences! Shortly after my Mum died, my sister wished to take over much of the funeral arrangements. She actually told me [[by email) that everything is OK between us only if she agrees with me. The remark dismayed me, but didn't upset me, as it's not true, but I wasn't about to respond to that sort of provocation.
It's a strange thing, but I was always supposed to be like my Mum both in looks and in nature but, as the years are sliding by, I'm becoming more like my Dad, particularly since he passed away 6 years ago.
My sister was never really quite like either of them [[I believe she takes after more distant relatives) but has seemed to adopt the worst of my Mum's little traits [[for example, Mum would be very careful and diligent and caring about things - but the other side was that she could at times be critical and nitpicking). There's an upside and a downside to all of our little characteristics, which are effective in some situations, and not so effective in others.
I still believe we should honour our parents by adopting the best of both of them when they have gone, not giving way to resentment and grumpiness....but I can only walk in my own shoes. It's difficult to know exactly how it is for anyone else, even for someone who is supposed to be 'close', like a sister......
There seems to be some sort of pattern emerging here, doesn't there.....
What I find interesting about our discussion is that we have very similar observations on life and those observations are based upon similar experiences. Conversely, I have long been of the opinion that our observations are unique to ourselves, so I'd love to hear the situations we've described from the viewpoint of my nephew, WGB's sister, and moe's sister. I wonder if they view us as stumbling blocks or negative personalities? Are they wondering if there's a way to help us straighten out our lives [[from their perspectives)?
When I watch movies, I always try to pay attention to the background actors. Faceless, nameless; they're only in the movie to be killed. But, I wonder who they are and who they leave behind when they are shot or blown up in a war film or as an unnamed thug in a gangster flick. All we know is that they are in the German army [[which makes them bad guys automatically) or came in with a menacing look and a machine gun with a more defined gangster. From their standpoint, they're just doing their jobs, but as depicted by the director, they're bad guys who exist only to do bad things making it easy for us to cheer when something bad happens to them.
Perspective is a remarkable thing. I'm sure there are very few people who see themselves as evil, yet per the collective of mankind and vantage point of history, that is exactly who they are. From the viewpoint of his tribesmen, Saddam Hussein was a great man. Bashar al-Assad is seen by someone as a savior. And yet, others saw Ghandi as an instigator and a roadblock to prosperity and peace.
The folks that we all admit to loving and caring for don't fit any description of the last couple of paragraphs. The thought just came to mind that they might have the same concerns about us that we have about them, although in their minds, we have room to improve ourselves. Sorry for the open [[and probably confusing) thought...
Yes, I do feel that each of us is bound to view events from our own perspective.
We all have to generally lead our lives our way, although very often there may be the feeling of dissatisfaction and limitation of choice. If we didn't, we'd be leading our lives someone else's way - which could mean just anyone we meet. That could lead to complete victimisation.
Yes, I agree that those who you or I might regard as evil will not think they are.
We'd probably be horrified to know just how we are viewed by some people, and probably equally touched at how some others view us. Best all round if we keep our own counsel!
It's interesting that you identify, not with the most prominent personalities, but those who might be considered the subordinates, or the underdogs of the situation.
It's also interesting to consider if we were to find ourselves in identical circumstances as our nephew, or our sister, and therefore seemingly have much more in common than before, whether we would confide and commiserate - or whether we would retain the same perspective we have held to date...
If you were the 18 years younger than your sister, do you suppose life would have afforded you the opportunity to be who you are? Or would you have traded places with her from a personality standpoint? Would she have formulated the relationship that you had with your Mum if she was the eldest or do you suppose that most of her issues are based upon biology? Are we programmed by nature to be who we are or are we shaped by our circumstances? I'm the baby [[of three kids) and my folks' relationship with each of us was different. Each of us knows them differently but each of us lives our lives as tribute to who they are and who they raised us to be. I like to think that I'm blessed to be the least of us because I hold them all in higher regard than I hold myself.
Starting in the middle, yes, we are programmed to be who we are, both physically and psychologically. Comparing [[or sometimes contrasting) ourselves with our siblings is maybe irrelevant, at least at times.
Because we all came from the same place means we are close, but that can also bring a certain amount of competition [[my Mum used to say with a smile "Ah, sibling rivalry!" - and my sister and me would exchange glances with each other, as we knew Mum wasn't close to her only sister!!)
My sister [[btw, she's only 18 months younger, not years :)) has had to endure some ongoing and debilitating illness for decades. When I say I find her attitude difficult to bear at times without making comment, it is more so because I feel mean for even thinking it - as I know it has made life difficult for her. I have been luckier - that's not what I feel, so much as what I suspect her of thinking - and I can't blame her for that.
She and my brother-in-law had three sons in five years. My nephews are all very tall. Standing next to them, I feel dark. They're so tall in fact that, in comparison, when we stand together, we look like The Marvelettes at the Apollo - and I look like Wanda. You'll get the picture. Even they smile and roll their eyes about their Mum and say "she just doesn't listen!". The real key to it all I feel is that my sister is a free spirit, whereas I'm more conservative. When she lost Nick her husband, the sensitivity of the situation was so acute, that she over-compensated, and became insensitive, simply to try and hold it all together.
Mum not so long ago said that she loved both of her children equally in their own way - and I feel that was fair, and accurate. I'm certain your Mum, Jerry, at some point will have said the same.
Hello! Of course, I meant "months"...
Anyway, you are of course correct about Mom. I have no doubt that should you ask my brother or sister if either felt like her favorite child, both of them [[like me) would gladly admit they that do. I can say the same about my dad, too, although my Pops and my brother are often butting heads.
Although we all need to be happy with ourselves as individuals [[Lord protect us from too many unhappy people), family members are particularly important, also old friends...as they and us go back a long way - even if there are times when we look back to certain events and think "ouchhhhh"....!
On the subject of favourite child, I'm actually not sure if I wanted to be 'favourite' or not - maybe I did, sometimes?
It seemed to me that if I was ever considered a favourite, I had a slightly uneasy feeling that I'd have to watch my step, and be very careful not to become 'unfavourite'....so I guess I wasn't someone who just wanted to be 'Number One'. Well, it can be a big responsibility, trying to keep ahead of the pack...:)
Ahhh... But that is just it: I don't wish to find out that I or either of us is the favorite. We just probably feel as though we are. I would feel horrible if Mom or Dad told me that I was their favorite. I love my siblings too much and respect my parents too strongly to want to know that it is me. As I said, I am literally proud to be the least of us because I put them all before myself.
I'm not sure that I can agree when you say that being third and youngest, makes you 'least', Jerry.
So don't forget that 'the last shall be first' , as they are, in certain circumstances. Good old life is a great leveller.
It's also a bit of a lottery, throwing chance and luck at us every single day:)
I'm the least because I find in them qualities that I aspire to possess, not so much because of birth order. I simply refuse to consider that I'm sure they might have a similar opinion about me, but as long as I see their strengths, I can strive to be like them in that regard. And after I feel that I'm like them in that regard, I'll always find some other quality to emulate. I'm the least because I choose to lift them up. As a result, I find myself living a better life as tribute to them [[and Grandma). I live my life by the premise that he that is last shall be first; I'm pleased to see the reference in your post.
I'd say modesty is much more attractive in people than an over-inflated ego, especially when real talent is evident. Our fortunes can change all too rapidly.
The only thing where we may differ is to make the most of yourself here on earth, not simply puting others ahead. Of course, making the most of oneself should not involve stepping on others simply to make progress .
That said, yes, always better to be one of life's givers than one of life's takers. That way, you undoubtedly have far more choice on where to give your love , and a lot less competition :)
I think we should all find reasons to do the right thing. If it's not to shame yourself before a loved one, why not? Or better yet, if it's to attain greatness to make them proud, do that. It doesn't always work, however, as the example of Marvin Gaye and his dad can illustrate. With that being said, do your best for yourself and if that's not good enough, do it for someone else.
I'm amazed at the shamelessness of people in our modern age. All manner of selfish and amoral behavior is highlighted at an alarming rate. Soon, nothing will shock us anymore. Yet, with that being said, I often ponder something that a co-worker once said that haunts me: I'd hate to think of what I might do if not for the constraint of law. "Law", for my use, is anything that gives pause by providing negative consequences for my actions, not just the legal system.
Although I think I made a remark recently, I might as well repeat it : a lot of people are only as honest as they need to be without being caught.
I agree with you that there are many who are not self-regulating. If their lifestyle involves relatively trivial matters which rebound only on them, and have as much to do with moral ethics as anything else, I suppose I should mind my own business.
Take away the constraints of the law, and I do start to ponder my vulnerability. Add to that how I might feel when I'm becoming more frail, and it starts to become distinctly worrying.
Our mutual discussions here seem to involve ideals, which at the least is looking to higher things, and I do believe in the goodness of most people.
However, if the time were to come when we find ourselves obliged to face unruly individuals who do not share the same views, because they do not understand them, or wish to do so, and these individuals begin to form into groups, we shall be in trouble.:[[
Ah, and to your last point, that seems to be the direction of the world. After centuries of imperialistic pursuits, the world's powers are finding themselves the victims of other, perhaps more dangerous groups willing to stop at nothing to prove their point. How else would you determine "pro-life" groups sanctioning the murder of abortion doctors? How else would you consider allegedly fundamentalist religious groups who believe you can use a bomb to make someone love God? Why is it possible that baby dolls containing bombs were dropped on school yards during conflicts in various parts of the world? We are indeed in trouble.
Think about it: Christians? Catholics vs. Protestants on Northern Irish streets. Muslim? Shia vs. Sunni all over the world. Americans? Conservatives and Progressives willing to run the country into foreclosure based on philosophy. Consensus is an afterthought for so many of us. Progress is halted due to the fact that for many [[not most, thank God) of us, progress can only go in one direction and if that means dissenters are dragged along, then so be it.
I bet the people who scattered away from Babel would look at the world today and wonder why these people make them look like the absolute picture of order and harmony. Another reason that I'm glad to be a Boomer is the fact that I don't want to see what our world becomes in the next 100 years.
I'm all for being positive,but it is concerning to consider that many who are alive in this world in the next 100 years will feel it to be a wonderful place......
I'm too old because every so often [[as seen from my fear-filled rants), I do forget that the world is indeed a wonderful place. As Lou Rawls sang beautifully: "What's the matter with the world, has the world gone mad? Nothing's wrong with the world; it's just the people that's in it."
And to that point, we cannot let the scariest rung of the human ladder be the one that we stand on. As I can attest from this thread alone, there are many beautiful and intelligent people out there. I am grateful to be able to converse with you guys... :) I wish we'd encountered each other years ago.
That's a very nice sentiment Jerry, and likewise from me.
One thing to consider : we are the modern day equivalent of penfriends, but now also sharing with others. I don't believe we could have had the opportunity of exactly the same level of communication and responses years ago - so that's what makes what we have here to be current, and special.
It's of 'today', and makes a nice counterbalance to the subject matter of many of the other threads, all of which I enjoy, but which also address themselves to 'yesterday'.
What I like about this thread is the freedom to express freely. There are no "my feelings are correct...yours aren't." But you both express what I feel and that's probably the reason you get such short postings from me. Intelligent conversation. Boy, what ever happened to it? Well, I thank you for this.
Oh yes, moe, [[and thank you, too )I know exactly what you mean when threads veer off on a tangent of "my feelings are correct...yours aren't".
I remember how that behaviour was quite common practice at school and, whenever I'm aware of it now, I still regard it as something which represents a retrograde step back to the playground.
I remember I could become quite intimidated in situations where the louder, more extroverted ones would raise their voices, especially if I knew that my basic convictions were not in agreement, but also that I hadn't quite got my thoughts together on the subject. But that's bullying isn't it and, somehow, we all had to learn to negotiate around it - and look out for it, to this day.
This thread seems to be about common sense, and is an effective platform for mutual support, even counselling. At the moment, there's more going on in my life than I can hardly manage, so there's no shortfall in it. However, I have a feeling that, if my circumstances were to change negatively, I could venture to express any uncertain, bothering feelings here - and I know that would be of great comfort.
I have to say it does seem somewhat of a contradiction to express deeper, very personal thoughts [[which in person I'd be disinclined to do) in an impersonal medium such as this forum, but it's good for all of us to get the thoughts out - to express ourselves.
It's obvious to me that Jerry thinks and feels on a very much deeper level than I, and in some ways I admit I feel pushed when it comes to making a response, almost as if I feel the need to rise to the challenge. I'm then quite surprised at what does come from my fingertips - so swiftly that I'm hardly aware of it. So the exercise is teaching me something, and I'm learning from it - so I'm happy about it:)
I once debated with a classmate the relative "fakeness" of people who post things on line that they would never say in person. I posited that they could bully and belittle someone with impunity, so that showed them to be something other than who they truly are. I conceded the debate when he made the point that since there is no constriction or repercussions for expressing their feelings in an anonymous forum, the avatar and screen name reveals the very nature of the poster. Consequently, that is the real person saying those evil words and behaving in that reprehensible fashion. He was 100% right.
I could understand that shy people might make positive online comments which they would otherwise be too shy to say in person - but I take your point about the hostile approach, irrespective of the name being used. It does sound quite logical.
Their own unhappiness - it must be the one thing these mean people wish to share.
I've been known to use my words in a very pointed manner when people bug me. When I feel someone is taking a personal and low shot at me, I can be quite harsh and wind up apologizing quite often for countering verbal spit wads with relative H-bombs. [[I am working on it...) But, with that said, I honestly will not say something on the web that I am not willing to say to anyone's face. How cowardly that would be. But, cowardice is the essence of a bully.
Yes, words spoken in person might be spoken in anger - and which may then need to be followed by an apology as soon as possible. An unguarded, spontaneous remark which bears no inherent anger or malice can also be misinterpreted.
Online, there's still the possibility of a misunderstanding, but I'm inclined to think there's plenty of time to think about the best way to make a point, before hitting 'send' in anger.
I read my work e-mails as many as three times before sending. Thankfully, I've deleted most of the ones that should never be sent. I have the capacity for being passively aggressive, so when someone irks me in a conversation, I plant what my brother calls "seeds of anxiety". On the surface, it may not sound like much. But between the other person and me, the understanding is clear and it can manifest itself in hurt feelings immediately or over the course of days. It's highly inappropriate behavior on my part... Think of it like a Jedi mind trick, if you will.
I honestly don't think I've done it for years, but I know that the mean streak is still there. I think it's more unsettling because 98% of the time, most of my acquaintances know that I'm a good guy. It's hard to find that nerve of insecurity in me, but the best way is to make what I consider to be an unfair judgment or accusation against me. My wife touches that nerve on purpose sometimes, just to get me to let it out. I think she feels that I'm holding something inside that might need to be released, but I feel worse afterward, not better.
Ha! I get cross with myself sometimes when I'm aware I'm giving people the 'me' I feel it's fair they should see, in an attempt not to dump on them any irritation I'm feeling with other issues not connected with them.
Just sometimes, it gets a bit tricky to keep smiling and being pleasant, but all the while seething inside haha....but the ideal is to deal with it quickly.
It's a habit of mine to be thoughtful, turning over issues in my mind like a washing machine cycle - but it's a bad habit when the thoughts are veering towards negative.
That's when I have to tell myself to get a clear focus on whatever is niggling me, and deal with it.
"Seeds of anxiety"? Yes, the merest suspicion of someone else's concealed annoyance or anger can often have a negative effect on our own feelings...
My brother was a drug and alcohol counselor in the US Air Force and seeds of anxiety are things that he was taught to use. Basically, when someone has something to hide, you allude to it without saying it outright. It takes root in his mind and later in the conversation, he reveals the truth by wanting to accuse you of saying something that was never actually said. Of course, the reply is "I never said that. Why would you suppose to bring it up?" Usually, this gets the conversation going toward the truth or straight to hell, depending on how resistant the person is to admitting that his own thoughts just betrayed him.
Anyway, I'm better at planting those sees than most, even though I've never been trained to use the tactic. It's almost unfair, though. The part about it that bugs me is that it is clearly a self-defense mechanism for me to strike out in an admittedly passive-aggressive and mean-spirited way. So I at once enjoy the "Gotcha!!" moment and despise myself for doing it. I believe that I should be bigger than that.
There's nothing 'small' about just wanting to get to the truth, although that may lead to you being accused of having an interrogative style. [[by whom, or for what reasons, are a different, and very interesting matter...)
You may just have a precise, analytical nature?
I'm more intuitive than analytical. I can find a nerve almost instinctually and press it easier than I can figure out why the nerve is there. By the same token, however, I am considered "a people person" because I am excellent at finding out what makes people tick and in my job as a manager, it's quite natural for me to motivate someone. They work well for me because they know that I care enough to find out what is important to them. In other words, they're comfortable around me and I work better around comfortable people.
Sounds like good team work.
Do you have much turnover of staff where you work?
This year, we have had more attrition than before. Mostly, that's because the general demeanor of the place has plummeted. I've never seen morale as low as this in over 20 years of working in these environments. I still do what I can to keep them uplifted. Most are unhappy because this place used to be a much easier job to have. Modern business is a harsh mistress. Unfortunately, I have no direct reports, so I tend to be everybody's unofficial boss. That helps when they feel that their actual boss is leaning on them unduly. They come my way and I smooth the waters so they can focus on the important things instead of something that upset them.
I can sympathise with that. In an ideal situation, it's a real advantage [[but due more to luck than design) to have a team which has an harmonious blend. Whenever members change, there is a threat to the dynamics of the team, especially if working in close proximity with each other.
Low morale is tough for everybody. Those final words you used: 'something that upset them' , are very telling. Feeling upset at work, where so much time is spent, is not a good feeling at all, for anyone.:[[
I am so thankful that I have retired and no longer have the problem of motivating staff.
I worked in both large and small companies, and found the small companies much more rewarding as far as being appreciated was concerned.
Yes, I've also worked in both large and small companies.
During and after college in London I worked in many of the bigger stores there, before settling at that certain store in Knightsbridge beginning with an 'H' [[and certainly not a 'haitch' :)), which was a lot of fun.
Following on, I was lucky in that I was the fifth successive generation to work [[for 21 years) in my family's furnishing business, and am now the last surviving member of my family to have done so.
It was more a way of life than simply '9-5' work, and the same is also true of my current activity, running a smaller furnishing business with my partner, together with self-employed members of our team. It's personal ,it's hard work [[especially posting here while doing my admin!) but very rewarding.
I'm guessing that you do what you can to make the working-day more enjoyable.
That's absolutely true, as it's in my own interests to do so.
Besides, the working days can be long, and SDF keeps me focused and in good company!
I stop by on my breaks and lunches everyday. Speaking of long working days, one of the things that has hurt morale at my warehouse is the fact that we have been working crazy amounts of overtime. The temps have been working 12 hour days since the beginning of August with only two days off until the end of September. The union workers have had two voluntary Sundays during that period. I am responsible for safety in a warehouse full of exhausted forklift drivers. We typically have accidents during periods of heavy overtime and we are working at an unprecedented rate. That is the source of much of my stress these days...