Great points Brad. She needed to do her research. I know I was not the only one watching and wondering where so many others were that night.
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I've always felt that the performers[only the motown artist]after a medley each should have come back to sing one of thier classic songs,in it's entirety!
I believe the Supremes were originally supposed to sing three in their entirety.
That's not an excuse. There were plenty enough of us watching on television that did not work for Motown at all, but not only knew of the missing artists, but respected them and enjoyed their music. She was just being her usual nasty self. Then turned around and tried to profit from what was suppose to be a charity event. Later for her..........
For me just the fact that James Jamerson had to buy a ticket speaks volumes...
No, Suzanne DePasse was not a teenager, she was 22 years old when she joined Motown in 1968. She was friends with Cindy Birdsong. It was Cindy who introduced Suzanne to Berry Gordy in NYC. You remember how she treated Cindy later on in the 70s when Cindy was down on her luck and needed a job,right?
i think Suzanne approached motown 25 with a specific eye to appealing to a broad audience. There are tons/zillions of amazing Motown songs. and so very many people that contributed along the way. but this wasn't intended to be a documentary that exhaustively reviewed all of motown's glorious history. it was a tv special that was being done to hype both motown's tv productions and their current stable of artists. also probably with some hope to drive sales of compilations and greatest hits and help line the company's coffers.
To the average American watching that show, they'd probably have no idea who the Marvelettes were, that the Spinners recorded for Motown, some of the more obscure [[but no less wonderful) artists and groups. Heck that silly Charlene song "I've Never Been To Me" is a huge hit with gays and drag queens but so many are shocked to learn it was a Motown song! other than heavy-duty fans, the avg american listener isn't investing the time or energy to understand the full history of a record label.
therefore the decisions made for the lineup
sure it may seem heartless to big fans but i'm assuming those numbers are small when compared to the millions of people that watched the tv special. The producers packaged it correctly as a [[mostly lol) lovely stroll down memory lane. people would see their big well know stars, see some funny video clips from the era, have those "oh yeah!! i remember that song now!!" and then a week later buy some rehashed greatest hits package at Sam Goody
i think the Motown Album coffee table book was a little more for dedicated fans rather than Motown 25. sure it's still a bit light on content but contains lovely pics throughout and highlights a lot of the smaller groups.
plus the discography in the back of the book does a nice job of highlight important material and no solely focused on the smokey/marvin/diana/stevie material
I agree with Sup Fan, mostly. The first thing to remember is that this was a television special and therefore television rules. Had this been a PBS focused program, one might have expected more history, but this was NBC and the idea was to pull in ratings. Of course to diehards the show should've included folks like Brenda Holloway, Kim Weston, the Originals, etc, but that would not have done much for the average viewer. The Motown generation would've tuned in to see the big names: the Supremes, the Tempts, Tops, Martha, Mary Wells, J5, and a few others. Debarge surely would've brought in some of the younger crowd, as would the hype about MJ's performance. Of course that doesn't negate some of the obvious bad moves.
I'm not buying for a second that because Suzanne joined in 68 that she wouldn't have known to reach out to the Marvelettes. The Marvelettes were still very much with Motown in 68, while Mary Wells had been gone for years by that time, yet Suzanne had enough sense to ask her to participate. Maybe only Gladys Horton would've performed, but at least the group that gave Motown it's first Hot 100 number one would've been represented. [[As well as the Marvelettes were one of the few acts in the early days who kept Motown afloat.)
James Jamerson having to buy a ticket is disgusting. The Vandellas not being present is either the fault of DePasse or Reeves or both. Still a shame. Relegating Mary Wells, Martha Reeves and Junior Walker to snippets of one song each was just sad. Personally I would've told Suzanne and the powers that be to kiss my entire Black ass, but I do understand why they chose not to do that.
Ultimately the program turned out very well. And let's be real: Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean" eclipsed everything right and wrong about that show. His performance became iconic.
its a shame that the performers were simply relegated to their small, allotted segment and then you had that huge production earlier with the dancers and all doing Dancing In The Street. Martha commented how inappropriate it was that her air time was minuscule and then they used her song so prominently earlier. it's too bad some stars couldn't have at least had the option to participate in earlier/other segments. sure that would have involved more rehearsal time and if the star[[s) were willing to do it, they should have been allowed.
Although the micheal jackson performance was great,seeing the miracles sing[oo baby baby]would've brought down the house also the temps doing[memories]with dennis on lead-are you kidding me?
Nope, not kidding you. As great as those moments would have been, they could not have overshadowed "Billie Jean". As I said before, the moment was iconic. Even if the Miracles had gotten together to do "Ooh Baby, Baby" or the Tempts doing "Memories", neither of those would be iconic moments, as great as they would be. When you talked about the Miracles forever more or the Tempts forever more, you won't be talking about what they did at Motown 25. You'll talk about the Miracles "Shop Around" perhaps being the first time you really took notice of Motown, or how the Miracles' 'Ooh Baby Baby" was the soundtrack to a special moment at a blue light party in somebody's basement. You'll talk about the Temptations' "My Girl" being on the radio 24/7 or how "I Can't Get Next to You" got the party started. Those are career defining moments to the public, the effect that the music had. But nobody remembers anything at Motown 25 as career defining except for Michael's moment. When MJ's life is recalled, his performance at Motown 25 is always highlighted. It was one of the most memorable moments in music of the 1980s. Iconic. It's the moment everyone remembers.
Motown diehards need to chill lol
No way a regular old Joe Schmoe would remember Smokey singing with the Miracles that night. But they can tell you how they imitated MJ's dance move while wearing one of their winter mittens. ;)
Ok,ok before any shots are fired over ft. Motown[smile]i totally agree with you both about mj's historic performance,what i'm saying is that why not let the artist have more than just a quick moment and then poof..put away the muskets and cannons and stand at ease..motown forever!!!
i agree with [[overall) the list of artists invited back. my one change would be to add the marvelettes and include them in some sort of manner with the early years and how they had the first #1
then the other artists like Mary Wells, Martha, and JR would be allowed to sing for longer
it's a good point that it's too bad the Temps and Tops weren't able to sing slightly more of their songs although the battle is a fun concept.
You say that because you were totally amazed with Michael Jackson's performance. I was college at the time and did not expect anything less from Michael that night. As far as regular people not remembering Smokey singing with the original Miracles that night you would be wrong. This show was in 1983 and there were a whole lot more Baby Boomers around then that easily remembered that 20-25 years earlier, the Miracles were a top, favorite group. Motown 25 was the motivation for all of the "Big Chill" music interest that started up shortly afterwards and the Miracles were a big part of that. All teenagers in America in the early to mid 60s remember dancing to "Ooo Baby, Baby". I was around even though I was a young kid so I "kinda" know what I am talking about here. Everyone that heard the Miracles in those days loved at least one of their songs.
They could have cut one of the comedy numbers [[Motor Mouth John Ushida [[sp?) and that long dance number using Marvin Gaye's "I Want You". That way they could have included a little bit of Jimmy Ruffin, Brenda Holloway and Kim Weston. How about the Velvelettes?.
For the final broadcast version, TG Sheppard, Jose Feliciano and a few others were edited completely out. They do appear on the commercial video release with the additional 25 mins. To have no mention of the Funk Brothers was a crime!
the goal was to have a variety show and therefore wanted the dance segments, the non-motown artists, the comedy routines. And for the casual viewer, Motor Mouth Ushida was in a ton of 80s commercials and familiar. Those smaller artists simply didn't have the mass appeal - Velvelettes had 0 US Billboard Top 40 hits, Jimmy had 1 top ten and 2 mid-sized pop hits, brenda had 2 top 40 hits, kim had 1 top 40 song
now as a die-hard motown enthusiast, i have songs from all of these artists on playlists. but do devote air time to any of these within the confines of a 2 hour variety show just doesn't make much sense. strictly from the business and ratings perspective
They should have been on the show. They even should have introduced the unsung heroes of Motown if even just from the audience. They should have introduced Esther Gordy Edwards who was there in the audience. Those artists I mentioned should have been included and cut out all of the corny crap that was included. It would have been a much better show.........
all of us here on the forum would have loved a more comprehensive show focusing on all of the many wonderful artists, performers, musicians, etc. But the avg American might not have been and therefore the ratings wouldn't have been as strong. as broadcast, it won an emmy
this was never really about documenting and celebrating everything of motown. For christ's sake - it wasn't even really the 25th anniversary. it was only the 24th. it was meant to be a publicity juggernaut surrounded by the veil of a benefit for sickle cell that would hype the legend of motown, sell a tons of rehashed greatest hits and hopefully provide both the tv production dept and the current top artists on the label with some sales
there was absolutely 0 sentimentality around this - don't try to convince yourself otherwise
you can't tell me that they didn't have this full line of records and cassettes waiting in the wings to release the minute the special was done:
Attachment 14715
Lucky2012, all of those omissions were a travesty! Suzanne DePasse was responsible for all of that. It is ironic that she would not even had a job if it were not for all of those talented, hard working Detroiters that built Motown to begin with! She could've done a roll call of all those great people that made it possible for her to come to Motown.
Yeah, lots were going on in the show. People forget Richard Pryor hosted the show lol
Also, I have to say I was disappointed with how Motown used DeBarge and High Inergy. I mean the performance was okay but they didn't even let High Inergy perform their own song. DeBarge was at least given a few seconds to perform All This Love! Lol
It's weird because I wished they had used I Like It but I guess they had just released All This Love as the second single.
Also, I don't think Rick James performed. That would've been a big highlight too.
High Inergy performed their song "He's A Pretender" on the show. There performance with DeBarge received a standing ovation that night.
Rick James refused to performed because in his words "I would feel like a hypocrite being on stage with all of those performers that left Motown while he was still at the company helping to keep it a float"
[[I am paraphrasing, but that is pretty much what he said at the time when asked why he was not there.)
Lionel Richie refused to perform because the Commodores were invited to perform. He instead taped a segment with a little girl afflicted with Sickle Cell Anemia.
I now remember that "Motown 25" is the very first show I ever videotaped! I had to go and rent a VCR somewhere in Denver and figure out how to hook it up before the show started LOL!!!
I doubt Berry wasn’t too happy with his protege dancing like that. Maxine Powell prob had a fit lol!
i never said or implied that they were dumb. just that they frankly wouldn't care. not every single citizen on the US is a collector or historian of Motown. the avg American probably recognized It Takes Two. and maybe they'd know it was Marvin Gaye and some woman. there's no way the avg American has any name recognition of "Kim Weston."
and for most of the population that was under 20 at the time of the special, odds are the "oldies" weren't of huge interest. Sure Lionel was hot at the time, Debarge, Diana had had some big hits. Smokey had a couple recent ones. But Martha, mary Wells, Tempts, Four Tops, Jr walker, etc were not performers that a jr high kid would really have related all that much too. Adam Ant was current. Motor Mouth was current.
again, you're wrong in your assumption that this was a documentary or a historical synopsis of motown. this was a variety special celebrating the old and new of motown with the intent of driving commercial impact. there was a limited amount of air time and they made the decisions that they did based on creating a special that would drive interest and sales in motown material and be a rating success.
why would berry not be happy? sure it wasn't the "mashed potato" or the "twist" but it was a marvelously innovative performance by one of the most gifted performers of the time. and the performer was on stage paying tribute to the man and company that was responsible for their discovery and launch.
btw in To Be Loved berry talks about the immense pride he felt watching michael
But see you have it wrong. That special was not geared towards Jr. High School aged kids in the 80s. It was geared toward the Baby Boomers and those just a bit older as those were the largest demographic groups in America in the 1980s. Motown was the music that everyone heard and partied to just less than 20 years prior to the 1983 TV special.