I wouldn’t say Mary lied but maybe didn’t know that Flo asked Diane to sing it.
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I wouldn’t say Mary lied but maybe didn’t know that Flo asked Diane to sing it.
With many if not most, tell-all books, the writer is often pressured by the publisher to play up some items and to play down others — in effect, to stretch the truth for greater bombast. I'm not saying that this is or isn't ethical. I'm sure Mary was aware of how events were playing out with that dumb song; she'd have had to be. She's admitted that she was strong-armed by the publisher to spice some things up‚ sometimes when she really didn't wish to. It was either that or have the project dropped. I'm not passing judgment on this either way. Just saying it happens.
Mary's version is similar [[although not as outlandish) to Tony Turner's. both book talk about this event. I'm wondering if tony "reminded" mary of this to include in her book as he was working for/with her at the time.
Also we don't know for certain that it was never performed at Copa 65. we only have a handful of evenings that were recorded. and given the changes in the set, they could have very well included it on other nights.
I'm saying she lied because there's no evidence that Diana ever sang it until the Funny Girl album, long after Flo was gone and a good two years since it had last been in the act. As I said before, Mary [[or the woman who helped her write the book) added this to the book for effect, just like the anecdote about Flo's last Tonight Show appearance, and how Flo supposedly monopolized the interview. Fast forward to the footage making the rounds of the net and we all know that "monopolization" was a gross exaggeration. I loved [[still love) Mary's first book [[and second book) and at the time of first reading I took her storytelling for truth. She was there, I was not, who was I to question anything? So for years I thought it was messed up that Flo had a "solo" [[come to find out it wasn't a solo at all) and that it was taken away and given to Diana in mid 1965. Imagine my surprise when in the early 2000s I received a copy of the Orient video, made in September 1966, and there Flo is still singing "People", more than a year after Mary said it was taken from her and she never sang it again...and who is sharing the lead? Ms. Wilson herself. Story officially debunked. Not to mention that Gil Askey tells a completely different story about the song. I do believe Flo's cousin when he says that Flo was upset about having the song taken away. But I think he recalled Mary's version of events from her book and added it to his statement. There is no evidence that the song was taken from Florence and given to Diana. None that has surfaced thus far, anyway.
Tony's book was a result of tidbits that had appeared elsewhere, including Mary's first book, and Tony being the comedic genius that he was, he was able to take those vague stories and turn them into exciting pages that included him being right there in the thick of things. I love his book. It's an excellent read. But if he expects me to believe all of those adults kicked it with him and let him be in the thick of everything, he's crazy.
As for the Copa, I thought all the nights were recorded because Gordy planned on the album and would want the best performances? It's possible that the song made it's way back into the Copa set that first gig, but as of yet there is no evidence of it.
As I said before, I love their version of the song, but mostly because of their harmony. But I listened to the live Paris version today and I honestly think Diana was better suited for the song. When she takes the lead on that version she kills it. I think the problem with Florence and the song is that she's not a natural soprano and the way the song is arranged makes it ideal for a natural like Diana. Florence killed her part on "It Makes No Difference Now", and she did a beautiful job on "Silent Night" and "Oh Holy Night", both of which the arrangements seemed to be complimentary, so I think she was just as great at ballads as she was at anything else. "People" just may not have been the best overall fit for her. Flo really needed a number she could let loose on, and whoever decided to give her "Aint That Good News" knew what the hell they were doing.
I think they only recorded 3 or so nights. I don't have the Expanded Edition bootlet in front of me but I think it was 6 shows recorded, 2 each night. some songs appear [[in these 6 shows) only once - was it Tonight, Enjoy Yourself and maybe I Am Woman? or maybe Ipanema. anyway it mentions that the lineup of the show was changing throughout. So who knows if People was in during another night.
I wish I could say there were. Having "My Favorite Things" recorded at the Copa 67 was certainly something different but we haven't found any live recordings of the hits that were in and out of the act quickly. At the end of the Roostertail 66 show that we used on the Symphony expanded the girls come back for another encore but much to our frustration the tape ran out as they got back to the stage! It was our fantasy that they sang "Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart." The 1967 Roostertail show with Cindy is nearly identical to the Talk Of The Town LP [[minus In And Out Of Love). I'm really enjoying the 67 Copa show from the upcoming Sing HDH expanded [[release date TBA) We used the late show since it was the very last official recording of the original group, plus it was a little more varied than show one and they seemed to be having a little more fun. Another plus was the bootleg that circulated for so many years has performances from the early show, making this fresh new mix of show two a little more different.
Anyone who's heard the bootleg knows the vocals are a little hoarse. We know Diana had a cold. But after we did the new mix they came out much better than I expected. For a few that have heard snippets they really couldn't tell a difference in vocals from other live shows. Overall sound is really good and it's nice to finally have a clean stereo mix of this show.
that's great!! the bootlegs I've had and heard are both a little hoarse and a bit high, not quite like playing a 33 on the 45 RPM setting but sort of like that. makes Diana sound even more like Minnie mouse lol ;)
I'd forgotten about My Fav Things!! with the MJC lineup, I remember hearing a story from Randy that at one of their later Frontier performances they were testing out Day By Day from Godspell but that it wasn't really working. don't know what wasn't working - arrangement, audience reception or what.
With Talk of Town I know they cut Unchained melody from the opening medley and then some of the comedy routine from You're Nobody. are there other songs that were cut? guessing they did Queen but didn't include on lp.
"Day By Day" was performed at that Frontier show. I would love to know what else they performed in that engagement.
Didn't Mary do "I Keep It Hid" for a brief time before it was taken out due to poor reception?
I like the Talk Of The Town show best even though it seems rushed and songs such as Love Is Here shortened by a verse,...and others as well
whose idea was it to have them speed up the songs and cut verses out
Speaking of the "sweet soft ballad from "West Side Story".....
I think there's evidence that three songs were used with this as the introduction: "Back in My Arms Again", "The Happening", and "You Keep Me Hanging On". Do we know if there were any others? And just for fun, do you suppose Diana knew from show to show what Gil would be playing? Maybe some nights it would be one; other nights it would be another?
Lastly, was "Back in My Arms Again" ever performed again after the Hollywood Bowl? I'd imagine it was cut very shortly after but how long after is the question.
And speaking of, for those that have heard that HB performance, do you think "Back" was performed by mistake? Like, no one thought to take it out with Flo not being there? Diana of course mentions "Mary" but I can't decide if her "oh no" instead of "Flo" was scripted, or off the cuff in the moment.
wasn't the decision made to use Cindy for HB only a day or two prior? from what I remember it was a pretty quick decision and therefore might not have been enough time to swap out the songs. The Happening was the latest single and so it would have had more of a prominent place rather than the "sweet West Side Story ballad." I don't think they ever did YCHL in this spot as the intro isn't loud or big enough.
I do think the HB show is a pretty good one [[of course fast forward through Berry's speech and all the talking lol). Cindy is quite prominent in the backgrounds which is a nice change from the other DRATS live performances. also a good song lineup
Okay, that is interesting info. And it's interesting Gil told you that. Definitely makes that People "change" more of a myth than anything. The Supremes never did sing "People" again after Flo left so that definitely confirms Gil's story that Flo told them to retire it. Only reason why folks believe it was shipped from Flo to Diana is because the group themselves re-recorded it for the "Funny Girl" album.
And also like was mentioned, the clip of Mary singing Diana's part in "People" when they did their Orient tour is key that the song was never switched over to Diana [[because if the timeline was correct, Motown would've gave Diana the FULL song by the time they were at the Orient; and besides from one studio recording, she never did sing it live by herself).
Which is funny because Motown wanted to make Diana their Barbra Streisand and she didn't even care to sing that song [[or any of Barbra's songs) lmao
So much for that "story".
People and I Am Woman came into the act before the Dick Clark tour in the summer of '64. It's said it was Flo's idea to incorporate them and have her and Diana split the lead. In turn Diana ended up pushing for Mary to take that spot in the song in '66. I'm assuming the song was dropped when Flo came back into the group briefly before being permanently fired since at that point her fate was up in the air.
I gotta agree with you ranran I much prefer "People" over "Somewhere". Even the recorded version that everyone whines about being too long. That line Flo does at the end "people who need people" after Diana's spot, is probably my favorite Flo moment.
Between the time I saw them in late August 1966 and early March 1967 the number was dropped. I don't know the exact chronology of when Flo was suspended and then reinstated on probation, but I believe that might have been after March of that year.
many of the productions on There's A Place For Us are subpar IMO. but that was an early attempt to produce this type of music on the Sups and so it's a bit of trial and error. The horn intro on Put On Happy Face are way too prominent and shrill. Both People and Somewhere are way too slow - like a death dirge. I also think some of the Symphony tracks are weaker too. It was obvious by the time of R&H and Broadway to Hollywood that the production teams had really grown and their sound was so much better
I have to disagree though about People vs Somewhere. if I had to vote on one, I'd pick Somewhere. I just like the song better. I do think that it would have been better to split up the bridge and give one full line to mary solo [[We'll find a new way of living) and then Flo do "We'll find a ..." then the trio back on Somewhere.
I think a lot of their non hits would have benefited from more group interaction, especially the live numbers.
I never really cared for the original Supremes' attempts at standards. They weren't as good with it as, say, Marvin.
I think over time Diana got better at standards POST-Supremes than when she was with them.
Like mentioned, I wished Flo had done Good News live. I loved their version of Shake but imagine Good News live. :)
i do like the version of People , thought the harmony was great . to bad this Orient show is not on dvd.....geez.
oh I disagree - although there absolutely are some stars and stinkers in their standards work. Diana had a theatricality in her voice and styling that was perfect for this work. and I think has more range. listening to her work on Sings Rodgers & Hart demonstrates this perfectly. from My Funny Valentine to Mountain Greenery to Little Girl Blue. And even some of their earlier work is quite fine. although some of the tracks are less desirable, much of CW&P holds up. Funny How Time Slips Away is great. both this and the Sam Cooke set are great but they don't show their range as much. especially with Sam. it was a rush job [[although the results are still nice). but if they'd taken a bit more time with it and allowed her to experiment more with her vocal stylings, it would have been marvelous.
Marvin was more of a romantic crooner. I don't think he can pull off the showtune comedy as well. a romantic ballad - wonderful. Imagine Marvin trying to do mame? or second hand rose? I realize those might be more "girls" songs but still
I guess I have to hear more. I DO love their version of "Somewhere" though!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x84LJjZhKSs
I thought the original group did the standards the best. Their harmony and blend was absolutely amazing. I really wish we could have heard the original group perform that fats waller medley, that would have been phenomenal. [[Although I can see poor Flo having a hard time keeping up with all that choreography for the number lol)
Flo struggled throughout her stint with the group. She did not have what it took to be part of a very very hard-working superstar act. That is why she was replaced. Ms. Birdsong proved very successful in handling the big job of superstar demands and expectations.
Flo also had nowhere near the voice of Jennifer Holliday or Jennifer Hudson. That is what made Dreamgirls truly fictional.
Not to mention Florence was probably bipolar. That means she had mood swings a lot of times so Mary and Diana [[and Berry) didn't know which Flo would show up. Even Mary and her cousin admitted that whatever happened to Flo being ousted from the Supremes was all on her. I love Flo to death but let's call it what it is.
And this thread wasn't even about Flo.
Yeah that's what they said............in front of the cameras. This is closer to the truth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ4HZiroMxM
thinking out loud
think it was strange that Talk Of The Town was released in 8-68
and TCB 12-68, with almost the same Supremes songs on it. I would think for TCB they would have done something new / updated.