I think Berry knew better than to show up. He's the one who Flo had the issues with. And I agree, I think people let him get away with too much. The way he treated Diana, Flo and Mary well let's just call it what it was: abusive.
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I agree in that prior to her death, Flo still held huge resentment for Gordy as opposed to Diana. His instincts were spot on in not attending.
For Diana it was a very difficult situation. Her absence would probably have been construed as not caring had she not turned up. Her only mistake was making herself the focus of attention at such an emotionally charged event.
Wrongly or rightly she paid paid the price, cast by global media as the attention seeking diva.
"Stars" might be pushing it. Flo's Motown peers spread throughout might be more accurate, folks like Kim Weston or one more Contours. As previously stated, with the day of the funeral having to be changed, any of the bigger name folks, such as Marvin, Gladys and the Pips, the Tempts, etc, who may have planned to come just couldn't accommodate the date change in their schedules.
oh come now, you don't really say potatah :p
It's possible that Gordy may have skipped the service because he figured the Ballard family might be hostile toward him, but the more likely reason is that he wasn't overly fond of Florence after a certain point and saw no need to attend the funeral. Personally, I'm okay with that.
[[I know Gordy is often seen at Motown funerals over the last couple decades or so, but did he usually attend funerals of Motowners back then? I'm thinking Paul Williams, Tammi T, Benny Benjaminson, Shorty Long...am I missing anyone?)
But other than the Ballards, there is no chance that Gordy was ever going to get what Diana got for being there. Women, and Black women in particular, are so often maligned for behavior that is excused or overlooked in men. The truth is that, while Diana's hands weren't dirty when it came to the issues in the Supremes, she did not hold the ultimate power, Gordy did. Diana didn't fire Flo and she didn't talk Gordy into getting rid of her either. There came a point when she obviously encouraged the move when she felt it became necessary, but so did Mary. But ultimately Gordy was Papa Supreme, he made all the decisions. Even reading Flo's own words on the issue it's clear that her resentment and anger was directed solely at him. And while she held a POV on things that Diana and Mary said or did at one time or another, I don't read anger in her statements. She felt Gordy was her problem.
Yet even now, go on Youtube or any other social media platform where the Supremes are being discussed and the arrows fly at Diana, not Berry. There's a video that constantly comes up in my feed that has a title like "The Reason Behind Florence Ballard's Demise" or maybe it's "Is Diana Ross the Reason For Florence Ballard's Death", or something along those provocative lines. Curiosity tries to get me to click the video just to see and hear what's being said, but in the end I move on because I can't stomach a bunch of idiotic comments about what Diana Ross did to Flo Ballard. Ultimately Flo was the captain of her own ship. Life wasn't fair to her, but it was up to her to do something about it. Unfortunately by the time she began to take major steps in moving in the right direction, her time here on earth was soon to be over. Sucks. But Diana isn't to blame for that. And truth be told, neither is Gordy. But for the things he should be blamed for, there are people invested in Diana getting that attention, which is insane to me.
I can agree with this. There's talk that once inside the church Diana became very emotional in a dramatic fashion. If true, I've never faulted her for that. I've been to enough funerals to expect audible gasps, fainting, screams, someone having to be escorted to a seat, etc. Diana is human after all, and subject to human moments like the rest of us. I never thought that her having that reaction was her attempting to get attention, as has been alleged.
However, I do think it weird that she didn't wait in line with her mother and sister and sit with them, or at least, considering it might have been safer for her to go directly inside, that she should have been seated with her own family, instead of up front with Flo's family. It looked like she was trying to get attention. Whether that's what she was doing or not, it was the optics of the thing.
I do not fault her for getting up to say something. I do fault her for pulling Mary into it without asking her. A few years ago after the death of a loved one, a family member took it upon herself to put people on the program without asking them if they would like to speak or sing. So folks arrived at the funeral, in no frame of mind to do anything other than grieve, only to find out they were to speak or sing. It pissed folks off, and rightfully so. Diana crossed a line and Mary should've checked her for it [[later).
Ultimately, I do believe that if Flo could've had a say, she would've wanted both Diana and Mary there. The three of them shared such an extraordinary experience together. They made history together. For decades to come, any three females, especially any three Black females, would forever be compared to the Supremes. Seemed only right that the two remaining ladies be there for Flo's final send off.
yeah i don't think it was inappropriate for Berry to not attend. he sent a beautiful arrangement and also had motown pay for the entire thing. it is very possible that he had his own personal reasons - he really had a very strong relationship with the 3 girls early on and then it turned very negative. then both sides had strong animosity towards each other and then one passed away. Berry is a person and has emotions [[even if he hides them). so we certainly don't know what tornado of thoughts and emotions flowed through his mind during this time. if he chose to handle his grief in a specific manner, that's his prerogative.
Ran - i agree with you on the Diana/Mary thing. Diana really should have reached out to Mary prior [[assuming that she didn't). But at the same point, both were there at the funeral and so it is, frankly, appropriate that both D and M to at least stand together by the casket. it shouldn't have been that huge a shock to mary that she would need to at least stand with diana by the coffin.
also Diana should have gone to the grave too.
I can understand Mary being perturbed that Diana called her up for an unplanned prayer. I'm sure Diana's heart was in the right place but grief is a personal and private thing and Mary shouldn't have been put on the spot like that. As it was, I believe Mary said they hadn't spoken in months and afterwards, never discussed Flo's passing.
As for Diana going to the grave, again, IMO, there are no should haves in such a situation. Some people don't like to see the actual lowering of the body into the ground. I certainly understand it, having attended at least one burial where that moment resulted in emotional moaning and groaning that I wish I didn't witness.
IIRC, Diana wanted to console Florence's daughters which is how she ended up sitting up front or at least that was her words of why.
She also said she was too distraught and wanted to grieve privately which is why she didn't end up at the cemetery.
Her and Mary definitely should have talked before the funeral and I'm very surprised they didn't. But I think it was only appropriate they stood up at the casket together. Sad to think that the three of them were only together twice after they split, including this one time.
I agree it was appropriate for the two women to speak at Flo's funeral, but I don't believe it was something either woman had to do. Like I said before, I've seen what happens when people are forced to get up in front of a church full of people unexpectedly to have words in the midst of grief. Frankly I find it disrespectful to put someone on the spot like that. I don't believe that was Diana's intention, but that was the result.
As for Diana going to the cemetery, I know lots of people who skip that part. It can be extremely emotional to watch a casket lowered into the ground. It's also possible that Diana's schedule would only permit her to attend the service and then head back to wherever she came from.
Diana and Mary had a weird relationship post Supremes. Honestly it's strange that they never spoke about Flo's death with one another. Seems like as soon as the news broke that either woman would have called the other to at least see how the other one was holding up. But communication appears to be the actual wedge that came between the two women. So much of the controversies post Supremes between them could have been avoided with woman to woman conversations.
All I will say fans that if Diana had of went to that casket without Mary she would have been blasted. Diana felt it was right that the two of them went together Mary could have said no but she didn't. I really don't know what was wrong here.
Questions for anyone who may know:
For the official funeral program, was Diana Ross scheduled to give prepared remarks?
If not, was there a portion of the funeral set aside that was open for anyone who wanted to get up to speak to those attending about Florence?
Currently, there is a Flo funeral program on Ebay. I have no idea whether or not it is legitimate as I've seen programs with two different cover photos. In any event, this one doesn't list Diana in the program and doesn't seem to have a slot for personal remembrances.
yeah i don't think mary was obligated to speak, sing or give a prayer. But just like Mary said she felt Diana was obligated to be at the gravesite since the 3 of them had shared some of the most important aspects of Flo's life, i feel mary was obligated to at least join Diana at the casket in the front of the church so the 3 of them were together one last time. she could have not made any statement but i do think they both needed to be there, just the two of them, with Flo at the end.
but again. i completely get it that grief is a highly personal emotion
What's wrong is a thing called boundaries and respect. You don't put people on the spot. If you'd like further thoughts on the subject, I have several family members that will recall for you their horror of being placed on a program at the funeral of a beloved relative without their permission. Imagine yourself, seated in a church, your heart broken in the worst way, and then discover that in the midst of how you're feeling somebody expects you to get up and talk about your feelings. You have no time to prepare, not your words, not your state of mind. Some did decline not to speak because they were too overwrought. Others, while pissed and horrified, went ahead and spoke in order to keep the drama to a minimum. Since the person who crossed the line was an elder, that was the only thing that kept the entire ordeal free of an ass whooping. Personally had she been dumb enough to put my name on there without permission, she would've gotten cussed out [[later on, of course, not at the church).
None of the ones who were called on thought it was no big deal. You just don't do that to people, especially people who are grieving. Mary could've declined, but as she explained, she was in shock. Diana had every right to speak at Flo's funeral. She had no right to pull Mary or anyone else into whatever she was trying to do.
Over the last few years I've become amazed at the lack of compassion and understanding for those in mourning.
If I recall correctly, Diana said she spoke in order to bring some calm to the service, which had gotten out of hand, thanks to the presence of people who were more interested in star gazing than paying their respects to the deceased. I don't think she was an official part of the program.
The difference between the two is that Mary felt Diana should've been there. She didn't force her to go or put her on the spot. Diana did that to Mary. Diana could've spoken and felt within herself that Mary should be up there too, but she didn't have to put Mary on the spot. But lets keep it real, Diana wasn't always known as someone who thought about how her actions might affect someone else. I imagine to Mary this was more of the same "Diana being Diana" that would sometimes cause resentment. I have to wonder if everyone who felt some type of way about Diana's "selfishness" in the early days had really gotten in her ass and in her ear about considering other people's feelings, maybe some of their relationships with her could have evolved without the resentment. If you let someone get away with something so often, they're bound to figure they can get away with it whenever they feel like it. I believe this was some of the negative side of Diana Ross. She didn't get checked enough back in the day.
Yeah, I know a lot of folks who do that. I know some who just won't do funerals at all. Had a great uncle who didn't go to his mother's- my great grandma- funeral. He said after my great grandfather's funeral that he'd never go to another one, and he didn't, not even his own mama's.
I'll skip the graveyard too unless it's someone I'm really close to. While the scene can be very emotional, I just feel like I have to be at that last thing that happens on earth. A closure thing, I guess.
I have never blamed Diana for not being at the graveside. I think her attending the service was more then enough.
Her actions inside the church though were extremely ill advised. She probably called upon Mary for moral support, problem being Mary had not been informed and was rightly outraged. It is possible it was a spur of the moment decision, but still makes for appalling etiquette. Shades of Motown 25.
I wonder what would have happened had it been Mary who had asked Diana to join her in a private prayer. Would the media have reacted the way they did?. Would Diana have played the diva and refused?.
Did the media react badly to Diana's action? I don't recall reading any specifics about the service at the time. If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't until Mary wrote about the funeral in her first book that most of us even knew what happened that day. I suspect if it had been Mary who had done this instead, Diana would have just gotten up, joined Mary, and we never would have known about it being unplanned.
As I've often said, when it comes to Diana, often she is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. I once told a friend that Diana could stand in the middle of Times Square and hand out $50 bills and someone would complain that they weren't $100s.
Diana wrote that she received bad press for it.
And yes as someone else wrote, Mary and Diana had a weird relationship after the Supremes ended. While I think they both loved each other, I think their relationship was damaged from the tension the last few years they sang together and it just never recovered. Had they just sat down and hashed things out like normal people do, I'm sure it would have been a different story.
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I'm not reading anything here I would call egregious. Seems like Diana was going out of her way to make sure Mary was included and so that she wasn't seen as trying to upstage her. She was trying to present the unity of The Supremes even at this time....this last time. As far as not pre-planning or speaking to each other in advance, I'm not reading that Mary tried to reach Diana but couldn't get through. So that they didn't, is as much on each of them as the other.
Did they both attend alone or were they with someone??
the thread's review of this event is quite interesting
I disagree Boogie. Why would Mary contact Diana when her only intention was to stand with everyone else and pay her last respects in her own personal, private way.
If Diana had intended a joint tribute, she should at least of had the curtesy of running it past Mary who may well have said thanks, but no thanks my love. It’s good etiquette.
As it was, Mary was pretty much forced into it. This was not a Supremes show after all.
Sorry, but I have always looked at this from a positive side. if Diana went up by herself, Rev. Franklin would have ask if Mary wanted to say anything. Diana recently said very few words about Mary passing and has been criticized for that as well.
All I know is that they loved each other especially Flo but Motown, politics, egos, and time got in their path.
That’s simply not true. No reverend worth their salt would ever take it upon themselves to select a member of the congregation at a funeral to make an impromptu speech. I can’t imagine to many peeps being happy with that one. I know I most certainly wouldn’t. It’s no wonder Mary was utterly dismayed by Diana’s actions.
I haven’t seen any criticism aimed at Diana regarding Mary’s passing. Considering the nature of their relationship, i think she probably said enough.
I read some complaints on Facebook but I wasn't surprised.
Diana sent out a heartfelt message when the news first broke of Mary's passing and some complained that it wasn't enough. Later in the day, she sent out a more formal message and some complained about that. I thought both responses were fine. But as I wrote earlier, sometimes Diana is damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't.
I get your point Ollie, Mary felt blindsided and was forced into doing something she wasn't prepared for, and especially in such a very personal, sensitive situation. She probably thought, "She's at it again , bossy Miss Rossy!" lol!
I'm not saying that the two should have called each other to choreograph their behavior, but good grief , if ever there was a time for them to reach out to each other .... and then while commiserating they might have segued into some thoughts about the funeral.
I don't think you're saying Diana went out of her way to use the situation to somehow get at Mary....don't you think her intentions were good? She couldn't very well pull Mary to the side at this point for a strategy, and I suspect Diana was doing what seemed right to her in the moment. Maybe she went into "Supremes" mode and it seemed natural to her to"lead" Mary ... who in turn was well past that.
I suspect that when Diana later read how that upset Mary, she was probably surprised and firmly decided , I'm not going to win with that woman and decided it was therefore best to stay away.
Don't you all get it? It's Reggie Harding's fault for tearing the original trio apart! I know Flo asked, but her brother should have came to stop it, because Reggie Harding is as bad as Bluto from Popeye
Reggie lusted for light-skinned women due to Reggie's troubled life after his own unfotuante childhood and acted as "friend" just to have Flo be his damsel.
The Florence Ballard memorial twitter should come forward and tell about Reggie. Yes, Flo's dead, but people then will "judge" Reggie forever.