Or, they'll learn to take charge of their careers better and manage it more under their own terms. Miley looks like anything but a serious pop artist. Like Madonna, she makes more news for what she does outside the studio than inside.
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timmyfunk,
That was my point too. You get the importance of that. Thank you!
S.S.
***
Madonna is known [[inside the industry) for being very hands-on in the studio, and has been that way from day one. She is involved during every step of the process from hiring musicians to the mastering stage. But, all you ever hear about is adoptions and stuff. That's the public's and the media's fault.
Based on her performance on last night’s Saturday Night Live, it seems Miley has a good grasp on her image and how it’s being used. The first clip in which her song/video “We Can’t Stop” has been turned into a song about the Government shut down is pretty funny.
http://www.eonline.com/news/467247/m...day-night-live
Here’s one critic siding with Miley Cyrus and against the attempted slut shaming of her:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/ar....html?ref=arts
Roberta,
Not that I agree with her methods, but Sinead ripped up the photo of the Pope in defiance to the cover-ups of the sexual abuse priests committed in a Catholic church. Miley's twerking on TV with a 30+ year old man and a bunch of life-sized stuffed animals is not proving a point except that she's desperate to be seen as something she's not - an adult. I'm young and I like to express myself, but I don't need to skimp around in flesh-toned underwear and gyrate my body all over the place to do so.
In regards to Sinead's own life, I'd say her past experiences and life decisions give support to this letter. I mean, who knows about poor decision making and being used by the industry better than someone who has been through it all? Unless she's still doing these things, I don't think it's fair to hold her past against her when she's trying to help someone younger. Especially when her father is saying that it's OK for her to be doing what she's doing.
I don't care that she ripped up the Pope's picture. I had no respect for the guy anyway. Perhaps she, herself, was violated by a church official. has she ever said anything like this? If it happened to her, it all makes sense, including her erratic behaviour over the years.
There have been a LOT of adults older than Miley who have done silly things like she has. her advantage is that she is only 20 years old. I do not care in the man is around 30. So what? His wife doesn't care, and her father doesn't care. It's just show biz! It's not like they were naked. It was calculated to get noticed, and to break from her Hannah Montana image. She doesn't want that sweet girl image.Quote:
Miley's twerking on TV with a 30+ year old man and a bunch of life-sized stuffed animals is not proving a point except that she's desperate to be seen as something she's not - an adult.
Well, don't do it, then. Even if they aren't famous or in the spotlight, some young women like it.Quote:
I'm young and I like to express myself, but I don't need to skimp around in flesh-toned underwear and gyrate my body all over the place to do so.
Bottom line: Miley did not ask Sinead for any advice, nor do they even know each other. Sinead is the last person to be giving anyone advice, especially after her public personal about wanting anal sex. Nothing wrong if she likes it, but...Quote:
In regards to Sinead's own life, I'd say her past experiences and life decisions give support to this letter. I mean, who knows about poor decision making and being used by the industry better than someone who has been through it all? Unless she's still doing these things, I don't think it's fair to hold her past against her when she's trying to help someone younger. Especially when her father is saying that it's OK for her to be doing what she's doing.
Miley may not want to be Hannah Montana anymore, but being as powerful of an influence as she is over young girls, she has a responsibility to not be shaking her you-know-what on television. As a teacher, I see so many young kids that look up to these stars who don't give a flying crap about how the repercussions of their actions, and it shows big time with kids. There is a loss of morality today, and celebrities and the media are not making it any better. It should not be acceptable for any woman or man, girl or boy [[whether it's someone Miley's age or older) to objectify and disrespect themselves that way. I don't care if her father was OK with it, I don't care if Robin's wife was OK with it - it's teaching the youth [[and I'm seeing it first-hand) that being sexually desirable and acting wild with no thought about your actions is acceptable! And it's not. As a role model [[and a celebrity is a role model to somebody somewhere), a celebrity has the opportunity to have profound influence on culture and socially-acceptable values and attitudes. In the spotlight, by "shaking it" - while wearing basically nothing - Miley's putting her body before her talent, which is CONSTANTLY reinforced by the media and it should not be happening. You don't see Robin Thicke or Justin Timberlake taking it off. No, instead, they surround themselves with pretty, young girls [[who are usually scantily clad, as well) and position themselves as being superior by doing so. The message it's sending out is damaging.
Miley did not ask for advice, but Sinead gave it out of concern - whether or not she's being hypocritical or not. Miley responded horribly [[so did Sinead), and instead of intelligently addressing her criticisms, she blasted Sinead with F-bombs via Twitter. Doesn't sound like someone who's in control.
Bottom line: Miley is in a position where she can use her fame to do good; to help fight sexualization of women in the media; to put out respectable music [[her songs talk about doing lines in the bathroom, for Heaven's sake!!). Instead, she's shaking her body, partying and carrying on for the whole world to see. Yes, she's twenty years old and can make her own decisions, blah-blah-blah. But it doesn't mean she SHOULD be making those decisions.
Does she have a responsibility, or is it the responsibility of the parents to teach their kids to have the smarts to see things for what they are? No, It is NOT the responsibility of an artist to set examples. That is like a sentence to being in a prison where one is not allowed to do what they want. Dammit! If an ADULT Miley wants to twerk Robin Thicke on a stage, so what! You don't think teens see worse on the internet? You think some 13-year old girl is going to twerk her biology teacher in class?
That's on the parents.Quote:
As a teacher, I see so many young kids that look up to these stars who don't give a flying crap about how the repercussions of their actions, and it shows big time with kids.
,Quote:
There is a loss of morality today
I'm done with the discussion with you. The second someone tries to bring in that very subjective argument of "moraltiy", it's all over. It always has religious overtones, and is the intellectually lazy way out of an argument.
Miley Cyrus or any other young star or sports star does not have a responsibility to be a role model and shouldnt be role models imo. Parents have a responsibilitty to be the best role model to they children.
Blaming celebrities is a real easy excuse if you ask me. Young people should be influence by people who are real involved in they day to day lives like parents and teachers and pastors and charity workers and missionaries. A teenager with with good parents or a good parent who has been brought up right and brought up to respect themselves and others and to have to have goals isnt likely to dress and dance like Miley Cyrus just because they see her "act" on a TV music award show.
I bet some of those parents that are hollering at Miley and condemming Miley have no problem taking they kids to the shooting range or having guns in they homes which is much more harmful than Miley Cyrus twerking on a TV award show.
If you raise your kids to have self respect and to have good values then nobody on TV or a sportsfield or a basketball court or a movie is going to force a child to act wild or go out and have unsafe sex.
Roberta
It's true, though. Our minds are shaped in the home with our parents/guardians. If you don't have that foundation, then all else is probably lost. If you or I became famous, it would be one hell of a burden to try to be a role model. It would not be our responsibility to be anyone's role model. It's another thing if you opt to take on that role yourself, but it is not an obligation.
Miley Cyrus is no longer a child actress. Teens do not look up to her anymore. That is how she wants it. She wants to be a free adult, free to do what she wants. She wants to be free of Hannah Montana. Let her go! Let her twerk. Let her be naked. I don't care. It's just showbiz!
Excuse me? Soulster, where did you get religion? Don't put words in my mouth. I'm not bringing religion into this. You can have good morals without being religious. No it does not always have to do with religion. I have plenty of atheist friends who have more morals than Miley appears to have. I never said religion anywhere. Now you're making assumptions and that's not fair. 'Morals' are the decisions and actions that decide what is right and wrong. That's what formal and informal rules and laws are based on. Morals are everywhere - so don't say that you can't have morals without religion. Society NEEDS morals. If we had no sense of what's right or wrong, our society would fall apart.
And I do not appreciate you being so dismissive and assuming you know what I mean without asking.
To you and Roberta, I'm not saying parents don't have responsibility, they do. I believe that wholeheartedly. But at some point, kids are going to be exposed to the media and celebrities. And at some point, teens are going to make the decision to do what they want, despite whatever upbringing their parents give them. Teenagers have a mind of their own, and they DO look up to celebrities, whether they realize it or not. Celebrities have a major impact on style, music, fashion, attitudes to an extent, etc. Obviously, we can't make celebrities set an example, but it would be wise for them to do so.
And, no, age does not make you an adult. Making mature, responsible decisions makes you an adult, and so far, I haven't seen any maturity out of Miley. I'm offended by anyone doing that kind of stuff - be it Miley, Madonna, whoever.
And you can raise your child with the best intentions and teach them right from wrong and everything, but at some point, they're going to think on their own and make their own decisions. At some point, the choices they make are their own responsibility, not the parents'. So Miley is free to make her own choices, but she is responsible for those choices, too. And as much as a parent can tell a child that what Miley did was wrong, teenagers don't always listen to their parents. So blaming parents entirely is not right either.
1) Teens DO still look up to her.
2) It's not "just" showbiz. I see students coming into school who come in wearing long shorts or skirts, but will change into shorter skirts [[even though their parents don't approve). Where do they get these ideas that it's OK for a 14 year old to be wearing booty shorts? The media, and their friends [[who get those ideas from the media in the first place).
I will add that Sinead O'Conner has been the aggressor here. After her initial letter, Cyrus tweeted that they could "meet up" to discuss this. But, O'Connor decided to make another public message and used the f-word.
You tell me who the sane, rational role model is here.
You're right, and I acknowledged in one of my posts above that Sinead also did not respond well [[her threats for legal actions were certainly just as unnecessary as Miley's F-bombs). And I know Sinead hasn't been the perfect role model, either, but I still think her letter contains some very valuable advice.
But, of course, that's just my opinion, and Miley is able to make her own decisions.
They do. Believe me, being in the school system, they do. But violating a dress code [[at least in public schools) doesn't normally constitute any more extreme punishments. And telling a teeanger they can't wear certain clothes isn't going to stop them from wanting to, or even trying to, with a lot of kids. Just because a parent or teacher tells a kid what they're doing is wrong, doesn't mean they're going to listen. With a lot teenagers, their friends and the media are often prioritized higher than what their parents or teachers think. And yes, controlling [[or trying to control) what our kids have access to will help, but somehow kids are going to see what's out there, and, in a lot of cases, try to emulate or be just like that celebrity that happens to be hip and cool.
antceleb, I find your views carefully deliberated, astute and balanced. I entirely support your opinions. I do not want you to think you are in a minority of one. I believe you have a very informed view of the challenges children face today, and the influences [[outside of parental influence) which can take them in a certain direction. The fact that you are in the education system, and actively immersed in these challenges on a day to day basis, only makes my conviction in you stronger.
If you were in the education system, yet advocated females take the money irrespective of their self- respect, the example they set others, or looked down on others who were just trying to get by doing unglamorous jobs, I would have been profoundly disappointed. However, that is clearly not the case, and I commend you for your character and for striving to do the best for those entrusted to your care.
Kids need to be allowed to express themselves but also need to be supervised. My mom went balistic when my eldest sister dressed like Tina Turner in the late 60s with a mini skirt all the way up her butt but my sister turned out fine. My mom whupped me for coming home in the 70s in hotpants and white platform boots which i had obviously seen on the TV and I turned out fine. My neice came home in the early 80s with real spiky hair and chains and a pierced nose and she turn out fine. We all turned out fine because we had a great mom who taught us values and self respect but we had express ourselves and try to be real hot and fashionable. Blaming Miley Cyrus is like blaming race car divers because your teenager smash a car when driving real fast or blaming McDonalds because your kids got fat from eating big macs and supersize fries. The parents have a responsibility to teach they kids good eating habits and safe driving skills and monitor they online activity and not to be promiscous and to use protection when they start having sexual intercourse. Its called parenting and being real involved in your kids life. Blaming Miley Cyrus is just a cop-out imo.
Roberta
Thank you, Mike. That really means a lot!!
Roberta, I understand your view completely. But Miley is not an invalid. She is not crippled by her parents' upbringing. At some point, you can't make excuses for the children. If she wants to act like an adult, she has to assume the responsibilities of an adult.
Secondly, children don't always turn out alright even if the parents instilled every value in them possible. And it's very presumptuous to say that if a grown child [[i.e. twenty years old, as is Miley's case) makes poor choices, it's automatically the parents' fault. My parents raised me and my siblings wonderfully and they have instilled in us respect, good values, and the consequences of our choices. They were certainly strict in punishing us whenever we made poor choices. Still, one of my siblings is dealing with some distressing issues and has not made some wise life decisions. However, I will knock out anyone who tries to blame my parents, because they did everything in their power to raise us with the best sense of what's right and what's wrong. You and your siblings might have turned out all right, but that's not always the case. If children don't turn out to be as pristine as parents try to raise them, well there are outside influences that affect growing children. The same goes with Miley Cyrus. Blaming her is not a cop-out because she is mentally cognizant enough to make her own decisions; to know what's right and what's wrong. In reality, blaming the parents is more of a cop-out because then every time a child does something wrong, they can just say "It's not my fault, my parents didn't tell me it was wrong." We need to draw the line. If you are able to live on your own and make your own decisions - as Miley is clearly capable of doing - she is responsible for her own actions.
Teenagers were twerking, masturbating, and having sex long before Miley Cyrus was born.
But whats Miley done? She twerked on TV so what? Ever looked at some of the video games kids play with people getting they heads blown off every 5 seconds. Thats way more dangerous than twerking on TV yet parents allow they kids to line up at video stores to buy these violent games. I didnt know what twerking was until Miley did it. maybe someone will open twerking excersice classes that will improve our health and make us lose weight. I may start twerking lol.
There are no guarantee in life you do the best you can with your kids but trust me twerking aint gonna send them down the path to hell.
Roberta
I have problems with those video games, too, but that's a separate issue.
With Miley, it's more than her twerking. It's her outfit [[rather, her lack-thereof), her gyrating against a man's pelvis on national television, and the lyrics in her song. She talks about "dancing with molly" [[a street name for ecstasy), "doing lines in the bathroom," etc. The song glamorizes partying and doing drugs as the cool life, when it's not! And it's sad that songs like that are allowed on the airwaves. Her outfit is not respectful to herself and other women. It says that to be sexy and attractive, you should wear as little as possible. The industry wants you to believe that it's liberating. It's not. It's demeaning and sexist. On the male end, the industry says that you have to be smooth, handsome, "manly," and essentially pimp yourself out to lots of young, thin women in order to be desirable.
I was never a fan of Miley Cyrus, but she used to do what music is actually about - SING. Now, her songs are auto-tuned, and her performances are less based on the music, and more about how she looks and how much controversy she can stir up. Vocally, she has potential. But she's not using it.
Every publicity stunt that Madonna has ever initiated [[yes, initiated) is what has kept her name in the press. It hasn't been anything she does in the studio. In fact, she hasn't made any kind of splash musically since at least 1999. She is the one that dangling the carrot in front of the horse, not the media. And that goes for any Britney, Miley, Christina A, and every other glorified mall rat that came after Madge. In fact her publicity stunts are what brings attention to her recordings.
Miley must be doing something right if she’s irritating prissy authority figures who want performers to be positive role models. I hope she keeps up the good work. Most teenagers like to party, experiment with alcohol and/or drugs, have hangovers, and dressed to attract whomever they want to attract. Sometimes they have to go behind a parent’s back to do so, but that’s what they do. And for centuries there have been songs about drinking and drugging, getting high, partying, dancing, wearing scanty clothes and having sex. IT’s just people being people.
What do you mean by she's doing something right by offending people? Is she doing good by being upsetting people? And are you saying that people who disapprove are "prissy?" That's quite arrogant to assume. Are people who are offended by nude twerking and songs about doing drugs terrible people? I'm sorry if being upset by ILLEGAL drugs and wearing underwear on stage is offensive to you. Just because it's been going on for years, doesn't mean it should be going on. Corruption in politics has been going on for thousands of years, and that's just people being people. Of course people are going to party and do drugs and whatever. But when you have 10-year-olds singing about "doing lines" and "dancing with molly" and twerking, that's not OK.
If a ten year old know what doing lines means and dancing with Molly then the parents need to rethink they parenting skills. Im telling you twerking is gonna be the new rage for all ages and I may buy me some twerking lessons when they start offering them. It look like real good excersise lol.
Lets stop bashing Miley. "Let he that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone"
Roberta
Teens don't need Miley's song to know about doing drugs and having s-e-x. You can see fewer clothes on females on the beach and at the swimming pool.
Sheesh. Miley is not the anti-Christ. The only thing she did that was foul was wearing an outfit that made her butt look like pancakes. Like someone mentioned, she doesn't have the equipment to twerk.
Someone needs to take her out to eat and put some junk in that trunk!
Let's see what some other female singers have to say about this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/m...ars-think.html
Twerking is basically mostly butt shaking and women have been shaking their asses to whatever music they enjoy since Queen Sheba dropped it like it was hot on the Pharoah.
They just a twerk a thon in New York a couple of weeks ago to try to make it mainstream
and get in the Guiness Book and though I have some mixed feelings about some aspects
of all that I know it's not gonna disappear anytime soon. Remember when people said hip hop was a fad that wouldn't last? In the Congo the dance is called Mapouka [[check youtube)
and in Brazil they call it doing Funk. Some even claim it's not sexual at all but I personally
think those folks are kidding themselves. Anyway Miley recently stated she was going to give it up because now that white people are doing it , it's become lame. I disagree with
that statement because I've seen white women on the web who DO have the equipment,
doing it WELL:)....
I'm not bashing Miley, or saying she's the anti-Christ. Like I previously stated, she's got a lot of talent. I'm critical of her recent career choice and reasons to do so.
Roberta, I don't want to say it again. Just because a 10 year old knows about drugs, doesn't mean their parents are doing a bad job raising them. That's an inaccurate generalization. Kids these days are so susceptible to the influences of the world around them that it's impossible to totally shelter them from the world, unless you belong to some cult out in the middle of nowhere.