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Has any other singing group, besides The Supremes, had 12 #1 popular music hit records without winning a competitive Grammy Award?
The Supremes deserved more than zero competitive Grammy Awards.
A Grammy Liftetime Acheivement Award to The Supremes in 2023 does not obliterate the long playing history of not awarding a competitive Grammy Award to The Supremes by the Grammy Academy.
Comments appreciated regarding critical musical awards theory.
Outside of Stevie Wonder, the Grammys for the most part have snubbed Motown artist. Smokey Robinson has won only one Grammy. Smokey Robinson!!!
Most of the female artists were snubbed until Thelma Houston won one.
Gladys and the Pips did win for Neither One of Us
i think motown is also has a heavy hand in their lack of Grammies
for one, they refused to let the industry in to certify the sales of their records. coming from an "upstart colored-people's label" that was a bold move. and i completely recognize why - they wanted to be able to boast about sales as they saw fit.
second, motown was rather late to the game when it came to creating more substantial albums and concepts. motown was 100% dedicated to profit, getting stuff to sell. it seems there was little focus on "artist statement" and so that probably came back to bite them in the butt.
also it was becoming more and more obvious to all that Gordy was using the group as a platform to launch his star performer. that the other two Sups were just window dressing. that also had to negatively impact people's percept
i completely agree that it's shameful that the Sups never receive one and that they only had 2 nominations!! when they did do something masterful and artistic [[like the album Sing R&H) that should have been a high winner of that year's awards. but the RCAA just routinely ignored them.
Marvin Gaye's What's Going On album didn't even win a Grammy!
They probably have some crazy rule that you have to be who’s singing on your records.
Did the monkees ever get a grammy ?
well they did rescind MV's grammies in the early 90s over that lip sync scandal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogiedown
what if the Sups had won for Love Child or Someday? DCM would have been standing at the podium receiving their statues. and then later would they have been cancelled?
Motown and it’s fan have legitimate complaints.
But in the early days, there were few awards and now there is an award for the longest screech on a record by a female.
The Beach Boys, Abba and the Rolling Stones also have legitimate complaints
Shantel Baker won a Grammy?Quote:
Originally Posted by jobeterob
One thing to consider is that during The Supremes' Classic run of hits in the '60s, The Grammy Awards were [mostly] about mainstream pop music and Not focused on Rock & Soul Music. So a lot of great music wasn't recognized by an award from The Grammys.
Has there even been a % account of the total number of all Supremes recorded songs in which all the respective line-up members sang?
The Supremes sing Rodgers and Hart is a delicious album. There are a few flaws, as always with diamonds in the rough.Thank you, Miss Maxine Powell, "We still love you."
meet the SupremesQuote:
Originally Posted by TNSUN
Liverpool
Sam Cooke
Copa
R&H
i think these are the only albums to have ONLY supremes on them
DMF are on all of the tracks for WDOLG and More Hits, although additional singers are on some tracks. but that could probably be excused simply as additional session singers.
Just because a record hits No. 1 doesn't mean the artist singing it is worthy of a grammy nod. For heaven sakes, remember Melanie "A Brand New Key?" Does anyone think Achy Breaky Heart has a quality vocal on it?
I will admit the Grammys snubbed Motown many times, but also the fact is, in the case of The Supremes, Miss Ross has a pleasant voice but not a particularly great voice. She doesn't hold up to Aretha, Whitney, Patti or Gladys. Diana's voice is one anyone can sing along to in the shower or driving a car.
If I had to pick one song that I think Diana, while in the Supremes, should have received a Grammy nod, it would have been Love Child. Her vocal on it is stronger than on previous hits and she took more chances, and they worked. Many have said she should have been nominated for Someday We'll Be Together, but I disagree, she gives a rather sleepy, 2-octave at best performance.
After Ross, I thought Jean's vocal on Up The Ladder was grammy material as was Scherrie's on Let My Heart Do The Walking. But by then the Supremes were just written off all the way around.
I have never paid much attention to the Grammys, but I have to admit I was surprised to learn here that Diane has never won one. She has certainly made some records which would seem to be worthy of an award like that, those "important" sounding records like Ain't No Mountain High Enough, Touch Me in the Morning, Good Morning Heartache. They became popular with notable albums and seem as if they should have received proper attention.
I don't think whether Ross' voice stacks up to others is really a consideration. Many people have better voices. If a singer's record sales or popularity were dependent on technical gifts, I don't think many popular singers would make the grade. But Ross' voice has a certain quality which makes it distinctive and, to me at least, places her at the top of legendary vocalists.
The Grammys have often been ridiculed for missing out on great musical trends. I'm not sure, but did the Beatles ever win one? I think one great example is that they were passed up for Record of the Year by "Winchester Cathedral!" How long did it take them to acknowledge Rap, or even Hip Hop, as a definitive musical genre?
I guess Diane will have to be content to be in the rarified company of some other legendary losers such as Susan Lucci, who lost in the Daytime Emmy awards for [[I think) 17 times before she finally won one! This was mystifying to folks for many years because, after all, she had practically created the "soap opera diva" type that other soaps copied for many years.
Many others don’t have better voices than Diana’s not even Beyoncé or Adele or any of the other current Tic Tok sensations
there is much more to singing that the styles of Aretha, Whitney, Patti or Gladys. while in no way trying to slight those four talented singers, to compare Diana to them is simply an inaccurate comparison. what - just because the 5 are black? Jessye Norman and Leontyne Price were black and neither of them sing like Aretha [[and i wish Aretha wouldn't attempt their songs either! lol)Quote:
Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan
Even if you were say Diana is also an r&b singer, she has a very different style and approach. vocal gymnastics are not necessarily the demarcation of a good singer. Diana's lyrical interpretation matches if not exceeds any of the four. like in Classical music, people are often awed by some massive and fiery pyrotechnics-filled piano concerto by Rachmaninoff. but frankly the interpretive skills required for a Mozart piece make it more difficult and a greater accomplishment
now i do agree with you that just because a song is popular or even goes #1 doesn't mean it's a grammy winner. My personal fav song of all time [[regardless of group) is You Can't Hurry Love but i don't know that it would be a grammy. and i love The Happening and BIMAA but again, not grammies.Quote:
Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan
I might vote for Reflections. that was a truly unique and special record. the restraint Diana sings with is stunning and her totally desperate interpretation [[especially for a 23 year old singer) is remarkable. the entire production is flawless and for an r&b record moving into even lightweight psychedelia is impressive
Great post and points, sup_fan. It is always a matter of opinion & taste. Aretha, Gladys & Barbra are among my favorite singers, powerhouse vocalists all. My favorites are Diana & Dionne. For me, their singing and voices "hold up" to the others. I think we let critics/reviewers/writers influence us too much and too often as to who or what are "great" singers/voices.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
I also think we tend to label too much. Diana started as a Motown R&B/Pop artist, but her voice and interpretive gifts enabled her to "crossover" to other popular music genres & styles. I love that about her. I never thought she was a "soul singer", as many too easily or lazily label her, probably because she is black, but her singing can be just as soulful as anyone's.
I like your classical music correlations. For the record, I love Rachmaninoff as much as Mozart. :)
It is always a matter of opinion & taste. Aretha, Gladys & Barbra are among my favorite singers [Patti & Whitney, not so much], powerhouse vocalists all. My favorites are Diana & Dionne. For me, their singing and voices "hold up" to the others. I think we let critics/reviewers/writers influence us too much and too often as to who or what are "great" singers/voices.Quote:
Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan
That Diana Ross has a distinctive voice may or may not have been overly stated over the years. Her voice really is distinctive and a reason for her longevity and global appeal and success. Her voice may be merely pleasant, unimpressive or not to your taste, but this cuts both ways. For me, and many I know, vocal range is indeed impressive, but vocal gymnastics and/or histrionics can be unpleasant.
You are right that Love Child should have been nominated. I think several Supremes and Diana Ross records have been Grammy-worthy, whatever that means or is worth these days, especially considering who or what was the competition over the years. My World Is Empty Without You, Love Is Like An Itching in My heart, You Can't Hurry Love & You Keep Me Hangin' On, all in 1966, I think should have been at least nominated in pop/r&b or rock categories. That was a great year in pop music and Motown was riding high critically and commercially.
You're right about the Supremes stock in the 70s. I agree about Up The Ladder To the Roof. It's a great record. As for Diana Ross, I think she should have won for Ain't No Mountain High Enough and at least nominated for Lady Sing The Blues.
I very much agree regarding Diana’s voice and the reason for her longevity. It also didn’t hurt that she is an attractive woman. She can make even average material sound better then it is without ever attempting vocal gymnastics.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky2012
Grammy wise, the LSTB album is superb and one that made people look at Diana Ross in an entirely different way. For this alone it deserved a Grammy win.
For best female r&b performance, “A Simple Thing Like Cry” was certainly worthy of at least a nomination. Rarely has she sang with such soulful, emotional abandon.
from the 70s Supremes, i think Stoned Love has the edge on Ladder for a Grammy nod.
and if the NW album had been reworked a little, i think it would have been a candidate for best R&B album. Frank achieved a totally new sound here - a merger of rock, soul and opera. there's a grandness and scale to the album. a few minor adjustments to perfect things and i think it would have been perfect.
my edits would be:
1. title and album artwork as we've all discussed many times
2. cut the fog horn on Bridge. i'm ok with the thunder and rain sound effects but they could probably go too. I'm not opposed to the synthesizer influence and touches, clearly it's marvelous between the first 2 tracks and then again on Thank You.
3. change a couple tunes on Side 2 - I'd say cut Come Together and include Time and Love. Baby Baby from RO was a very strong cut and perhaps it could have been held for the NW album. tons of wonderful songs could have easily filled it's place on RO
i would also say that MS&S i realize it would have been up against Songs in the Key Of Life. but i think the experimentation and sounds they explored on the lp are significant. they way they use all 3 voices. songs like Sweet Dream Machine, Come Into My Life and We Should Be Closer are amazing tracks. the disco tracks all also build on their style and sound. this was an album full of "something new" and all was done so well. the only think i'd alter is the moaning from Mary on Heart. but overall this was a major successful album, from an artistic standpoint, and something completely different from what the rest of the industry and groups were doing.