Does anyone know what Mary’s children plan to do with the Supremes’ gowns that were exhibited?
I can see Diana’s children buying them to preserve the legacy. They certainly have the means to buy them should they be for sale.
Printable View
Does anyone know what Mary’s children plan to do with the Supremes’ gowns that were exhibited?
I can see Diana’s children buying them to preserve the legacy. They certainly have the means to buy them should they be for sale.
I would wonder if they should be sold to the motown museum. in the long run, that's probably the best place for them. from there they could be loaned out to the RnR Hall of Fame, Hard Rock Cafes, etc
another option would be the Smithsonian African American museum. again, they could have a selection on display and then loan out.
for the kids to handle all of this is probably too much. given what others [[like Brad) have mentioned about some being in unfortunate states of disrepair, they need to be handled by someone that understands how to care for delicate and rare gowns. a curator that has the training and background
Rhonda is about the only one that I see having any interest in the Supremes gowns, simply with her additional ties to Motown. But would she have any interest in the post Diana gowns? And could she afford them? What would you say the collection is worth?
I truly don't think Turkessa has much interest in them. And truth told, that's a lot of responsibility. One would hope Mary made provisions for them outside of her children.
Maybe they could be displayed in the flo ballard museum/reception hall/airbnb? ;)
I was thinking Tracee. She loves fashion and always tries to emulate her mother. Evan is also a possibility because he is sooo close to his mother.
motown museum is also a good possibility. Hard Rock might want to purchase the entire collection and put them in their many hotels and casinos.
I don’t know how much money Mary left the kids, but they might be sitting on a gold mine through the gowns. The gowns are part of history.
Those are lots of good ideas for places they could go.
All the Ross kids could afford them but I doubt they want them
I think they have a limited value - no fortune
Having worked with Mary and the gowns, I know the difficulties Mary had with the Motown Museum. To many on here, the Motown Museum would seem like the likely choice for them to go if Turkessa decided they should go to a museum. I personally believe after all the hard work Mary put into securing and preserving these gowns and the Motown Museum's unwillingness to share any information with her on what they had in their collection, they would not be a good home for them. And I know Mary would have felt the same. She wouldn't have wanted them to go there and those wishes should be respected.
Definitely no to the Hard Rock Cafes & Hotel - They do not follow proper procedures for preservation and display. Remember they are a business, not a museum. A terrible option. Absolutely no.
The Grammy Museum is an option but since the Supremes never won a Grammy nor have been honored with a Lifetime Achievement Award, I don't think they are a good fit.
Mary had great relationships with the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and the Smithsonian. Being major museum institutions, both follow museum practices and preservation procedures and guidelines to properly take care of the gowns. Mary's gown exhibit started as a Rock Hall exhibit that eventually traveled around the country and the UK. The origins of the gowns being displayed in a major exhibit started there.
The Rock Hall or the Smithsonian should be the rightful home for them.
You couldn't be more wrong. I know the insurance values for several of the classic sets. They most definitely have worth and value.Quote:
Originally Posted by jobeterob
Do you have any idea of what the entire collection is worth?Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsupremes
Overall, no. There were several sets in Mary's collection that weren't used in the exhibits so they didn't get an appraisal. A proper overall worth hasn't factored in those sets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Circa 1824
excellent point about Hard Rock. most of the memorabilia they display are guitars, posters, etc which require significantly less curation and care.Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsupremes
as for the Motown Museum, were the problems there more around Mary's rocky relationship with Motown overall? i realize the museum isn't really part of "motown" as in the label. Was is Ester that was running the museum for a while? when Mary and Berry were at odds in the 80s and 90s, i could imagine she'd side with Berry. But that could all be ancient history and staff/managers have changed 1,000 times since then.
BTW wasn't there talk at one point of the entire motown museum being totally reimagined and completely redesigned, expanded? did that all get cancelled with the pandemic? haven't followed or read anything on this in years
I agree with a "hard NO!" on the Hard Rock Café getting them!
In regards to the Motown Museum, I've discussed privately with others about the archives of the MM, which are a strongly guarded secret to everyone but the few with access to them. Several I've talked to have heard reports that their archives are not very well maintained, especially for an organization that has been around for over 35 years. I know not too long ago they posted job listings looking for professional archivists. I talked briefly with Robin Terry about possibly donating some of my collection, but I personally would have to see their archives to be comfortable in making that final decision to do so. And being a memorabilia collector, I agree and know without a doubt the gown collection has some significant value. While I've always felt that the R&B/soul genre in "Rock and Roll / Music Memorabilia" is undervalued, a set of the flagship gowns would be highly valued by many collectors, and those with deep pockets would pay handsomely to acquire them.
Sup_fan, the Motown Museum expansion efforts have been ongoing but have not reached the goal to move forward with the 3rd phase. They're currently in the 2nd phase which is preservation of the Hitsville house itself, including the sign, which I was glad to hear as when I was there in May of 2021 it was getting to be in poor condition. Personally I've felt the original sign should be removed and kept out of the elements which will only continue to destroy it. Exact molds could be taken from the original letters and recast in the exact shade of blue plastic. I've always felt a local Detroit molding company would likely donate their services to do so. The 2nd phase also includes the construction of a plaza area in the front of the houses. Personally I've not been a fan of this as the grass lawns and the sidewalk leading up to Hitsville have always been a big part of it's look and the feeling won't be the same, at least to me. The pandemic did have some bearing on the project I'm sure, but it's been slow going raising funds since the project was announced. I don't know why BG won't finance the rest of the project with the size of his fortune. He's got more than enough and his kids shouldn't need it. It could be a big part of his legacy to finish this project, and he could possibly live long enough to see it finished and be present at the dedication.
Darin
Mary had issues with the Motown Museum going back to the 80s. Relations warmed a bit up in recent years but I know of numerous attempts Mary made to the museum in asking about what gowns they had in their collection. They would tell her "we thought you knew we had things" but never any details on what those gowns were. In later years Mary wasn't so much interested in getting those gowns back but rather finding out what they had so we could narrow down our search for the missing sets. Mary was willing to cooperate in working together with them and loaning sets in her collection to them but they wouldn't budge in telling her. Mary even spoke with Berry Gordy about it and he agreed to step in on her behalf but then the pandemic hit and then sadly Mary died. And I've heard similar things, Darin. I won't go into detail but they are very secretive about their collection and I have a few ideas as to why.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
So no, the Motown Museum is not the right home for them and they should go to an institution that were eager to work with her, were cooperative with her and would have the budget and facilities to properly store, maintain, and display them. Those institutions are the Rock Hall and/or the Smithsonian.
The Hard Rock Hotel in Atlantic City has tons of clothing on display including one of Ringo’s jackets from the Beatles era. They have Cher’s clothes from the 60’s, and many others. Of course, they also have Elvis’ Rolls Royce and Sinatra’s piano.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
I thought the gowns were taking car of thru Mary's will.
Not sure ,but I thought the Rock Roll Hall of Fame gets to keep them and display them
The Hard Rock is known for displaying things that were never worn/associated to the artist they claim it belonged to. They have displayed a few things claiming to belong to the Supremes, Mary, and Diana and yet there has been no proof they were ever worn by them. I know of a two dresses they associated to Mary but Mary confirmed to me she never wore or owned them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Circa 1824
They also have problems with their facilities when it comes to displaying artifacts. Clothing and paper documents are very susceptible to fading and deterioration if not properly lit, exposed to high humidity and light, etc. The cafes, casinos and hotels are lit for their business function. Putting a set of Supremes gowns in the middle of a casino or a restaurant that 1.) is not properly controlled for humidity levels that could cause material breakdown, 2.) exposed to lights that would increase and speed up fading and deterioration, 3.) being displayed for a prolonged period of time could cause further stress on the material.
There was set of gowns on display at a Hard Rock Cafe in Singapore. They were poorly mounted in cases over a stairwell exposed to indoor lights and outside UV light and in the middle of a restaurant exposing those gowns to food smells, etc. It was a sad sight to see.
No way to the Hard Rock Cafe.
my vote is the Smithsonian. between the African American museum and the American History museum, you have multiple opportunities for exhibits. plus "The Smithsonian" would probably carry more weight for touring exhibits. and lord knows they must have warehouses galore to store things in, along with the necessary preservationists.
Just as a word for Mary's kids and family I would take them on the road first to secure your investment and at point decide to display somewhere.
Sadly it's my guess that the world has moved on. It's difficult to imagine any sizeable audience with the interest in more than a set or two of the gowns. The simple burden of maintaining 3 of everything would make the financial prospect quite daunting. Add that to the fact that more than half the world's current population wasn't even born when Diana left the group and the general interest is quite ... wan.
i think a standalone museum would definitely not work. but within context of other things, you could assemble exhibits of various sizes. it obviously makes sense to have a large exhibit of things at the motown museum. and mary's incorporation of the civil rights struggle and work and how the group's success and history parallels that is a wonderful way to remind the public of the group's impact and give it more weight than just a bunch of pretty gowns.
they would work best as a multi-media experience. as you state, half [[or even more) of the world wasn't even born in 1970. but having video clips of the girls in action, the music, more of the memorabilia, etc. you have more things to interact with. So as a big section within the civil rights it would work
you could have have one or two sets in the American History museum, especially the more dramatic and glamorous ones. right there alongside the Ruby Slippers, Fonzie's jacket, Archie's chair, Kermit, etc. again, with a video of the girls dancing and singing to show the gowns in action
Surprising the fashion industry hasn’t come up with a museum, so many iconic styles, trends , costumes, uniforms, I’d go !
It could probably continue being a traveling exhibit, spending a month or so at various museums internationally. I bought a ticket to see it when it was stationed at the Grammy Museum at the Prudential Center in Newark, NJ. Unfortunately, they decided to close the museum the day that I had a ticket for and a new date didn't work for me. So I never got a chance to see it.
Historic old clothing cannot survive that kind of constant abuse. It would destroy them even further than they are now. Mary said so herself that they are falling apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by reese
Interesting comments particularly about clothing.
These are irreplaceable and so in the insurance sense very valuable.
I don't know what a collector with a lot of money that cared about the Supremes and Motown would pay; if he was a billionaire maybe he'd pay a lot. But there aren't many around. I don't know that there would be a lot of people willing to pay $5000 for a dress.
also these gowns were put through the ringer. they were work clothes for the group and then for mary as she was on her own. while i'm not saying they were actively abused, they were probably also not considered "heirlooms" at that point either. alterations were made. eventually some got too worn.
i think someone mentioned the green fringe pantsuits that MCJ wore on Tom Jones were really falling apart. there are pics of MSS wearing them so they were still in use. and i think they mentioned that even by then, the delicate silk of the pantsuit was coming apart of having issues. 40 years later could not have helped things.
other outfits were worn well into the 80s. so they've been through a lot.
the group had well over 100 outfits through the years. some are lost and i'm guessing a lot of the early ones are long gone. they were just store bought or homemade dresses the girls had and as things went out of fashion/got damaged/didn't fit/etc they probably just gave them away. once they hit it big and were spending much more money on the gowns being made by designers, those seem to be the ones that were stored and saved. but even those, some are MIA i guess
I'm not interested in the gowns for gowns sakes, but I would love for them to be preserved for it's historical relevancy. I have little doubt that Turkessa views this as a priority.
It's interesting to read that Motown has Supremes gowns in it's collection and that they were so secretive with Mary about what they had. I'm guessing they feared Mary coming after them legally? If the gowns belonged to the Supremes- purchased by the Supremes- the question would and should be asked Why does Motown have them? Not that I'm opposed to Motown having them, but I'm assuming this may have been the line of thinking and why they were so guarded with Mary.
I'm also guessing that whatever Motown has would mostly be Flo era gowns and dresses. Many years ago- like 20 years ago- someone was selling the top Flo has on the More Hits cover. I believe that's what it was. It might have been something else, but I do remember that it was from that 1965 time period and it was something I've seen Flo wear. I've always wondered if maybe someone stole it from Motown, and if so, what other stuff might Motown have or had.
A Google search reveals that there are some Beatles museums that exist. No surprise of course. But it makes me wonder about a Supremes museum, as in the future possibility, not if there is one. The existence of one would make the most logical home for the gowns. The Supremes are still such an important part of music history, Black history, Motown history, Detroit history. Their story is a brilliant case study in the intersections of race and gender, music in a changing society, the triumphs of success, and the pitfalls therein.
Is the Supremes fan base shrinking? Maybe. But it's crazy to me to think that the group's importance is lessening because the people who were around to experience it first hand are slowly dying off. There are still Civil War reenactors for goodness sakes. Lol Museums are for history. The Supremes are history. If marketed right, the undertaking could be a success.
I don't know if Mary ever thought about this. If not, too bad. I'm guessing Diana hasn't thought about it either. The two of them together could've really gotten it going. It's not too late for Diana, especially if one is able to sell her on the fact that her solo career should be included. Maybe Turkessa might look into this idea. She and Diana get together and make something happen.
I also wonder if Diana has any Supremes gowns in her collection? Perhaps some of the missing gowns are in her storage? Is it possible that the Supremes gowns that Motown has came from Diana, another reason why Motown didn't want to get into what they have with Mary?
So many questions about the gowns! Lol
I believe Diana has been quoted as saying that when she left the group, she left everything with Mary. I think she might have retained one of her own outfits from GIT but that's probably about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
haha well i love chatting gownsQuote:
Originally Posted by RanRan79
i made up one of my handy excel sheets to try and figure out just how many outfits these girls had!! lol and it's a lot. and i'm sure i'm missing a ton too, as we're still occasionally getting a photo of them in something totally different
Brad is the expert around here though and had spent lots of time with Mary. he even helped with the gown book. i don't have my file in front of me, but i want to say there was something like a total of 140 or so sets. that might have included costumes like the outfits worn in Fats Waller, which the girls didn't own.
during the Jean years, they had about 30 or so things. with Scherrie they had 19. i think pretty much all of these are accounted for except one or two. i think the white pantsuits from Andy Williams might be MIA? not sure.
there was another 30 - 40 from the DRATS area and 30 - 40 from the Flo era. most of the Flo stuff seems to be MIA. especially the earlier ones. i would assume that in later 64 and into 65 the girls were like "oh we don't want this old thing, we just got these great new dresses" and then maybe gave them to the poor, to relatives, etc. those real early gowns were often homemade.