Promises Kept Physical

I know that through various compilations that most of the tracks from "Promises Kept" have been released, but wondering what the interest level would be for an actual copy of this shelved album? Much like "There's a Place For Us"?

We haven't gotten anything "new" from the 70's Supremes in quite a few years, and other than a "Lost and Found", I would imagine this would be a natural next step.

I've always found this "mystery" album to be so interesting; from the title itself, to the musical direction of multiple producers, to the fact this would have been the Supremes 4th release in 1971.

I think most of t 70s supremes releases have been exhausted except for some unreleased stuff innthe vaults. I dont think its on their list of prioities i may be mistaken

Something a bit like this??

http://www.ioffer.com/i/the-supremes...1971-607717382

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Originally Posted by mysterysinger

Something a bit like this??

http://www.ioffer.com/i/the-supremes...1971-607717382

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These are bootlegs , but very good bootlegs. I honestly do not think there is sufficient demand for Universal to make an official release of this. Personally i would love it. Even better would be a 70's Supremes lost and found. There are sufficient early 70's tracks in the vault to warrant it. I think most of the Scherrie era has been released with the exception of a handful of alternate versions. I very much doubt it will ever happen, but we can live in hope.

I’m guessing that no formal album was ever assembled. Mary has said the title started through the fan newsletter and her stating she liked the title for an upcoming album.

To my ears, most of the newer canned tracks were adequate at best. There are certainly some gems but not many. After the beautiful Frank Wilson work, almost any combination of the canned materials would have been a let down and a step back for the girls.

After the flop of the duet material, the flop of touch [[both single and lp) and Nathan only going to 16, they were searching for something new. Maybe the idea was to test out a wide array of producers to see who could at least come up w a 45 A side. Just one song that would be releaseable. Then they could assemble a full album if it hit. That’s how we got Floy joy.

Nathan at only #16? That is not bad at all but charts have always been questionable. Locally where I lived it did hit #1 so there are many variations. Also that's the same position Floy Joy landed and Nathan was a much better innovative song. Who's to say but it should have gone higher than what Billboard said.

true - for an average performer, a charting of 16 is great. But the Supremes had 18 Top 10 and 12 #1. so it's a relatively poor performance. and also NJ was the follow up to Stoned love which was a huge hit and sold tons.

I remember reading on here that when asked, the girls themselves thought NJ should have been #1 and was a missed opportunity, that it didn't chart nearly as high as expected. keep in mind is a sensational song and one of their best - i love it. But somehow it just didn't perform as strongly as hoped.

IMO if they'd not had the market swamped with the duets material, it might have done better.

NJ was also sort of released [[April 71) when there weren't as many strong tv outlets as what had been and what would be arriving
*Ed Sullivan was off the air by June 71
*soul train debuted in Oct 71
*midnight special debuted in Aug 72
*Sonny & Cher debuted in Aug 71

The girls did perform it on the Tonight Show but, frankly, it was a weak performance due to the band. it just didn't have the spark of the record and i think they should have lip synced.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

true - for an average performer, a charting of 16 is great. But the Supremes had 18 Top 10 and 12 #1. so it's a relatively poor performance. and also NJ was the follow up to Stoned love which was a huge hit and sold tons.

I remember reading on here that when asked, the girls themselves thought NJ should have been #1 and was a missed opportunity, that it didn't chart nearly as high as expected. keep in mind is a sensational song and one of their best - i love it. But somehow it just didn't perform as strongly as hoped.

IMO if they'd not had the market swamped with the duets material, it might have done better.

NJ was also sort of released [[April 71) when there weren't as many strong tv outlets as what had been and what would be arriving
*Ed Sullivan was off the air by June 71
*soul train debuted in Oct 71
*midnight special debuted in Aug 72
*Sonny & Cher debuted in Aug 71

The girls did perform it on the Tonight Show but, frankly, it was a weak performance due to the band. it just didn't have the spark of the record and i think they should have lip synced.

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I haven't heard the performance on the Tonight show, but they did a great live version on the Cilla Black show on UK tv. The performance still exists but has not yet managed to surface on line....
Nathan Jones was one of the Supremes finest moments. It did much better here in the UK where it followed Stoned Love into the top 5. I agree that the sub standard duets albums had a negative impact upon the Supremes songs at this time. The market was flooded with material, and certain potential singles did not get the chance to shine. Very frustrating for all concerned.

i first heard the Tonight Show version on Midnight Johnny's broadcast several years ago. I believe it might have been around the time of the Jean Terrell set? i believe his included interviews with Jean along with an array of MJC and MJL live performances. at some point this broadcast was either available on youtube or on podcasts. I downloaded and then used my mac to cut apart the songs. so i now have in my itunes

You might be able to go to the radio station's website and download some podcasts. not sure what's still on there.

The girls did Love Story and Nathan, Joe Namath was the guest host. Johnny even joked that the band literally sucked the soul out of nathan jones lol. part of it might be due to years of poor quality bootlegs eroding the sound. basically they came across in the style and tone of In and Out of Love. bouncy like that versus hip and synthesized like the NJ recording

My thought is with the lackluster sales of "Touch", Motown was willing to try and do anything to get a hit on the Supremes, hence so many different creative forces behind the "PK" project. Wasn't it around this time also that Mary Wilson, in a "Flip Wilson Show" skit, eluded that the Supremes needed a #1 record?

They clearly thought Smokey was the answer. While "FJ" yielded a few singles, it wasn't that elusive #1 MW was looking for. And then poof! Cindy was gone.

out of the various material recorded for PK, i think Tears Left Over was the strongest [[go figure - another Frank Wilson production).

most of the covers aren't all that inspired. but there are some other strong songs in the grouping. Can't Get You Out of my mind, it's too late, I'll let him know i love him, and i thought you loved me.

Some of the earlier MJC tracks would have been worth dusting off - life beats, day will come between sunday and monday, mind body and soul

I do think FJ was something new and fresh for the group. i like the accompanying LP but i know some find it too fluffy and light. jean definitely is not running loose like she was on Bad Weather and Jimmy Webb. a much more controlled performance here. but i think it works.

IMO Cindy's departure really hurt the group and took the wind out of the FL sails. it wasn't going to be a #1 but Auto Sun should have charted higher.

Cindy was still in the group when FJ was on the singles charts - ditto when Auto Sunshine was released. I think FJ is a good record but got held back by Mary’s not-ready-for-pop-radïo vocal which not only is too hushed for a vocal intro attack, but makes the record hard to follow lyrically and the weird name “Floy” which to some, sounds creepy and it’s throwback style that was its main attraction but also a distraction to those not looking for a 60s sound revival just 2 years after the 60s. I liked it enough but would not have bought it if I wasn’t a group fan.

Nathan has some great stuff on it, but the lyrics are too hard to follow - no one I knew heard
“packed your bags” and
‘ The key that you are holding won’t fit my door”

we we had to wait for Song zhits to come out to get the lyric and even it was incorrect in the opening line. Also, just as the record is ready to kick it up into second gear, it backs down into that 60s phaser sound break that totally slows the record to a stop with perfunctory vocal inserts “Nathan “ and “Oh! Nathan Jones” which needed phasing or some sort of creativity as it’s just too plain for a record depending on sound effects and distortion. So, you go from this rocking song, to this faux psych-out break and then just pick up where it left off with no build and a boring, repetitive fade. Personally, I feel this could have gone number one with some work. I played the record a lot when I first got it, but it was in normal rotation way too soon - the soonest yet for a JMC single.

of all the songs that stalled in those first two years for both 2-for-1 stock split acts, the failure of RivervDeep and Remember Me to go top 5 puzzles me. I can see Remember Me having somewhat of a format issue, but I was insane gif it when it came out, and still dig the single mix immensely. I cannot understand why River Deep didn’t go top 5. Both lead vocals are spot on, the track is superb and doesn’t have a drop of air in it. Ike and Tina’s version was never heard of by most so that’s not a factor. The only thing that compromises the record is that the lyric is a bit mamby-pamby talking about puppies and rag dolls. Also, Jean’s ad libs are forced and uninspired - but I’m nit picking here. I was certain it was gonna be a killer.

I always find it interesting to read others opinions on why a song was or was not a major hit . I always felt many factors attribute to the reasons behind it. With that said , I do feel that some are to nit picky or ready too deeply into the subject. Despite what some on here says, Floy Joy worked and was a hit. The same goes for Nathan Jones and River Deep and to a certain degree Automatically Sunshine. Maniac I do get that some don’t get the lyrics or that it’s hard to follow, but apparently a larger group said otherwise. That also applies to NJ.

The biggest clunker of the 70's was "Touch". The lyrics are ridiculous, even for the time: "Darling just relax, you melt me like hot candle wax, one touch and my whole body melts". Is that soft porn?

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Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac

Cindy was still in the group when FJ was on the singles charts - ditto when Auto Sunshine was released. I think FJ is a good record but got held back by Mary’s not-ready-for-pop-radïo vocal which not only is too hushed for a vocal intro attack, but makes the record hard to follow lyrically and the weird name “Floy” which to some, sounds creepy and it’s throwback style that was its main attraction but also a distraction to those not looking for a 60s sound revival just 2 years after the 60s. I liked it enough but would not have bought it if I wasn’t a group fan.

Nathan has some great stuff on it, but the lyrics are too hard to follow - no one I knew heard
“packed your bags” and
‘ The key that you are holding won’t fit my door”

we we had to wait for Song zhits to come out to get the lyric and even it was incorrect in the opening line. Also, just as the record is ready to kick it up into second gear, it backs down into that 60s phaser sound break that totally slows the record to a stop with perfunctory vocal inserts “Nathan “ and “Oh! Nathan Jones” which needed phasing or some sort of creativity as it’s just too plain for a record depending on sound effects and distortion. So, you go from this rocking song, to this faux psych-out break and then just pick up where it left off with no build and a boring, repetitive fade. Personally, I feel this could have gone number one with some work. I played the record a lot when I first got it, but it was in normal rotation way too soon - the soonest yet for a JMC single.

of all the songs that stalled in those first two years for both 2-for-1 stock split acts, the failure of RivervDeep and Remember Me to go top 5 puzzles me. I can see Remember Me having somewhat of a format issue, but I was insane gif it when it came out, and still dig the single mix immensely. I cannot understand why River Deep didn’t go top 5. Both lead vocals are spot on, the track is superb and doesn’t have a drop of air in it. Ike and Tina’s version was never heard of by most so that’s not a factor. The only thing that compromises the record is that the lyric is a bit mamby-pamby talking about puppies and rag dolls. Also, Jean’s ad libs are forced and uninspired - but I’m nit picking here. I was certain it was gonna be a killer.

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very interesting observations on NJ. hadn't thought about it lacking a true climax but i think you're right now. it really maintains a pretty constant level, aside from the bridge, and might have worked better had it built up to something bigger at the end. Also the unison singing might have been too much. maybe not all of the song should have been unison - start with jean singing, add some general background vocals. then later in the song do the unison. all interesting ideas

Auto Sun was released right around the same time as Cindy's departure. I've always felt this lineup change and timing was unfortunate. it resulted in a lack of promotional appearances for a couple of months and right at the point where the lp's second single was released.

River should have been a bigger hit - definitely agree there. i think the 45 edit is awkward though and kills some of the songs real drama. Also it was released on top of Stoned Love which is absolutely a superior recording. even it's own awkward 45 editing and scandalous title couldn't hold it down. motown was unfortunately just in the habit of flooding the market with content. a very poor marketing and management strategy

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Originally Posted by marybrewster

The biggest clunker of the 70's was "Touch". The lyrics are ridiculous, even for the time: "Darling just relax, you melt me like hot candle wax, one touch and my whole body melts". Is that soft porn?

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not to mention the creepy sort of "haunted house" intro and the military snare drum. perhaps if they'd made it totally lush and romantic with the intro it might have made up for the dumb opening lyrics.

and while i'm fine with Mary sharing lead, i don't know that she should have opened the tunes. jean was already established as the primary lead and so she should have opened the songs. then mary and eventually cindy could share some of the lead lines within the song

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Originally Posted by blackguy69

I always find it interesting to read others opinions on why a song was or was not a major hit . I always felt many factors attribute to the reasons behind it. With that said , I do feel that some are to nit picky or ready too deeply into the subject. Despite what some on here says, Floy Joy worked and was a hit. The same goes for Nathan Jones and River Deep and to a certain degree Automatically Sunshine. Maniac I do get that some don’t get the lyrics or that it’s hard to follow, but apparently a larger group said otherwise. That also applies to NJ.

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A larger group most certainly did not say otherwise, or at least not enough to go out and buy them so they would go top ten. Personally, I don’t think one can look too deeply into the content of a record when discussing its lack of
‘expected” success. They were hits - but minor ones. I consider a hit to have gone top ten. A minor hit, top 20.minor hits fall off the chart and are forgotten in 6 months except by the acts’ big fans. 99% of the time even Mary eschews these tunes. They are good records certainly to get that high - but lacking the punch to got top ten or all the way. Look at the songs in the top ten - look at number ones - all are easy to follow, sing and identify with - unless there is an unusual dynamic to the record to sell it. the banal Silly Love Songs is a huge #1 smash, not a tenth of the record NJ is, IMHO, but why did it succeed where NJ failed? I believe it’s because it’s easy to follow and hop around to. I scratch my head at some of that man’s huge hits, but, he’s Paul and I’m less than nobody - he clearly knows what the public will buy.

it's also important to look at not only what was being released across the country but what was being released by Motown. there's a limited amount of total marketing $ that motown has at any one point and that total pie is going to be divided up across all of the acts. Bigger the act, bigger the slice.

spring of 71 saw:

What's Going On - the single was released in Jan and then the lp in May
Diana! - the special and LP was released late March
Reach Out - diana's single was released in late april
Just my imagination - released in jan
Sky's the limit - april
Never can say goodbye - march
maybe tomorrow - april

that's a LOT of volume with the top acts. combined with the Sup/Tops duet album nonsense and it's clear to see why some of the promotional push was declining from the girls. from strictly a budgeting process, you had bigger selling acts with bigger hits at the time.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

very interesting observations on NJ. hadn't thought about it lacking a true climax but i think you're right now. it really maintains a pretty constant level, aside from the bridge, and might have worked better had it built up to something bigger at the end. Also the unison singing might have been too much. maybe not all of the song should have been unison - start with jean singing, add some general background vocals. then later in the song do the unison. all interesting ideas

Auto Sun was released right around the same time as Cindy's departure. I've always felt this lineup change and timing was unfortunate. it resulted in a lack of promotional appearances for a couple of months and right at the point where the lp's second single was released.

River should have been a bigger hit - definitely agree there. i think the 45 edit is awkward though and kills some of the songs real drama. Also it was released on top of Stoned Love which is absolutely a superior recording. even it's own awkward 45 editing and scandalous title couldn't hold it down. motown was unfortunately just in the habit of flooding the market with content. a very poor marketing and management strategy

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The crazy thing about Nathan is that Frank wilson builds it so well up until the break: it grabs you right away with the intro the rocking beat, then usual Unison singing and the phasing…… Then for the second verse, adds the horns for a build, then leads us to the break with a promise - then drops the ball. I just don’t get it.

Automatically sunshine, to me is a weak record no matter how you look at it - and I bought that 45 because I enjoyed it enough to play. Personally, I don’t think the lineup change had anything to do with the outcome because by then no one knew the Supremes were anyway, And there was no announcement or anything and no photographs to feature lynda until the album came out…… And by then the single had stalled anyway. I’ve always thought that the art of getting a hit record is catering to the general public and not the groups fan base as more than likely they’re going to buy it anyway because they like the group and like the sound and they want to be supportive blah blah blah blah blah. It’s the people who have never bought a supreme’s record that you have to sell your work to and I just don’t think there’s enough here to get the general public to grab this 45. Mary‘s voice, in my opinion, does not belong opening a pop record for a.m. radio or R&B in the manner she does with these Frank wilson productions or smoky productions. You have to listen to closely to understand what she’s singing and if you’re in your car or transistor radio or whatever it just doesn’t stand out…… Then you have the jarring counter sound of Jean Just as you have adjusted your ear to the quiet, hushed tones of Mary. I think it’s a mistake…… The fans like it, but I don’t believe the public does - It worked on Floyd joy because of the sound of the record not because it was anything wonderful about Mary’s vocal. Although, later on in the 70s, I believe Mary delivered to several wonderfully radio friendly vocals.

Two years prior, Motown had i’m gonna make you love me, cloud nine, and love child all I believe in the top five the same time… Plus the number one album, the number to album the number six album and the number 14 album by both groups - And yes Stone club was climbing up the chart, but there really wasn’t any competition from the four tops, I don’t think that was the reason – although it’s as good a reason as any since I can’t think of a better one.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

it's also important to look at not only what was being released across the country but what was being released by Motown. there's a limited amount of total marketing $ that motown has at any one point and that total pie is going to be divided up across all of the acts. Bigger the act, bigger the slice.

spring of 71 saw:

What's Going On - the single was released in Jan and then the lp in May
Diana! - the special and LP was released late March
Reach Out - diana's single was released in late april
Just my imagination - released in jan
Sky's the limit - april
Never can say goodbye - march
maybe tomorrow - april

that's a LOT of volume with the top acts. combined with the Sup/Tops duet album nonsense and it's clear to see why some of the promotional push was declining from the girls. from strictly a budgeting process, you had bigger selling acts with bigger hits at the time.

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Supreme’s fans were going to buy Nathan Jones no matter what else was out at the time….And non-supreme’s fans probably wouldn’t care what diana ross was doing or the Temptations or the Jackson five. I can’t imagine that the dismal reach out I’ll be there with the prevent anybody from buying anything else. Talk about a bad edit job - I really think this is the worst - and ties Touch for the worst intros in Motown history.

The sad thing about releasing a single in late April through summer is that all of the TV shows have already been shot for the season so there’s no way to get on a variety show because they’re definitely done filming in March or early April - So you have to do talkshows or nothing.

You're right that die-hard fans will search out and buy the product no matter what. but real success comes from your avg public buying the product. And that's where the promotional spend is so important - who's traveling to do on-air interviews with djs, promotional posters and displays in record stores, a picture sleeve for the 45 vs a standard sleeve, commercial spots during peak listen times on air and on tv, etc etc.

and also just as important is close relationships with djs and station program managers. were the girls performing at trade shows and conventions? where they working each of the major record stores and radio stations by region of the country?

I'd love to see what % of the overall promotional budget the Sups got each year starting in 63. and then especially how did that % change starting in 71.

with Touch they did release a dj copy of the album with pre-recorded interview answers from the girls. so motown was still trying to make it work

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Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac

Automatically sunshine, to me is a weak record no matter how you look at it - and I bought that 45 because I enjoyed it enough to play. Personally, I don’t think the lineup change had anything to do with the outcome because by then no one knew the Supremes were anyway, And there was no announcement or anything and no photographs to feature lynda until the album came out…… And by then the single had stalled anyway. I’ve always thought that the art of getting a hit record is catering to the general public and not the groups fan base as more than likely they’re going to buy it anyway because they like the group and like the sound and they want to be supportive blah blah blah blah blah. It’s the people who have never bought a supreme’s record that you have to sell your work to and I just don’t think there’s enough here to get the general public to grab this 45. Mary‘s voice, in my opinion, does not belong opening a pop record for a.m. radio or R&B in the manner she does with these Frank wilson productions or smoky productions. You have to listen to closely to understand what she’s singing and if you’re in your car or transistor radio or whatever it just doesn’t stand out…… Then you have the jarring counter sound of Jean Just as you have adjusted your ear to the quiet, hushed tones of Mary. I think it’s a mistake…… The fans like it, but I don’t believe the public does - It worked on Floyd joy because of the sound of the record not because it was anything wonderful about Mary’s vocal.

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I happen to like AS - i think it's sort of sexy cool. catchy. here i think Mary's voice works but, again, maybe not at the first one to start off the song. it crept into the top 40 but had little to no major national promotional efforts. it was never performed on tv in the US. while i don't think it would ever hit #1 it should have gone top 20.

Your Wonderful Sweet Sweet Love sounded better live vs the record version. Smokey's voice did not enhance the sound here - sounds nothing like the Supremes. which i think is a problem. it's fine if he wanted to duet or join the girls on a track on the lp. but never release as a single

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Originally Posted by TheMotownManiac

A larger group most certainly did not say otherwise, or at least not enough to go out and buy them so they would go top ten. Personally, I don’t think one can look too deeply into the content of a record when discussing its lack of
‘expected” success. They were hits - but minor ones. I consider a hit to have gone top ten. A minor hit, top 20.minor hits fall off the chart and are forgotten in 6 months except by the acts’ big fans. 99% of the time even Mary eschews these tunes. They are good records certainly to get that high - but lacking the punch to got top ten or all the way. Look at the songs in the top ten - look at number ones - all are easy to follow, sing and identify with - unless there is an unusual dynamic to the record to sell it. the banal Silly Love Songs is a huge #1 smash, not a tenth of the record NJ is, IMHO, but why did it succeed where NJ failed? I believe it’s because it’s easy to follow and hop around to. I scratch my head at some of that man’s huge hits, but, he’s Paul and I’m less than nobody - he clearly knows what the public will buy.

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I beg to differ. A top 20 song is still a hit even if you think it’s not. I do agree that it’s not on the level than the earlier material but it had something to push it to where it charted.

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Originally Posted by blackguy69

I beg to differ. A top 20 song is still a hit even if you think it’s not. I do agree that it’s not on the level than the earlier material but it had something to push it to where it charted.

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i think the definition of "hit" has changed through the years. part of this is due to the significantly expanded genres of music. as the 60s continued into the 70s there were so many different types of music available and so people's tastes differentiated. so while previously the pop market dominated and a mid-charting song was still know by the overall public, by the 70s i don't think that was the case.

also it's curious as to why some songs "stick" versus others. My World Is Empty is such a known hit of the Sups. but IMO Love Is Here And Now You're Gone isn't as prevalent is the ongoing public's mind.

The definition hasn’t changed just our perception lol

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Originally Posted by blackguy69

I beg to differ. A top 20 song is still a hit even if you think it’s not. I do agree that it’s not on the level than the earlier material but it had something to push it to where it charted.

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i think that’s what I was saying - but I ramble. You’re a special part of me went to number 12 and I’m sure there’s not a soul on the planet that recalls it except for Diana and Marvin freaks. My mistake went to 19 and is remembered by some people in cities where it hit big.

I've heard various concerts over the years, the crispest being the "Live in Japan" set. I've often wondered why full length versions of the "new hits" weren't included. Perhaps they could have helped increased sales? "Cherry Pie" and "Somewhere" and Mary's by then 5 year old lead on "Can't Take My Eyes" were certainly doing them no favors.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

IMO Cindy's departure really hurt the group and took the wind out of the FL sails. it wasn't going to be a #1 but Auto Sun should have charted higher.

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I agree. When Flo "left" the group in '67 it was big news. When Diana left in '70 it was bigger news. Cindy's departure, from everything that I've been able to read, appears to have been treated as though the Supremes changed underwear. One day she's there, the next day she's gone.

Maybe a "farewell" for her and a big splash for Lynda might have renewed some interest in the group. A few news articles and a sudden appearance of Lynda on the "FJ" cover is pretty much a whimper.

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Originally Posted by marybrewster

I've heard various concerts over the years, the crispest being the "Live in Japan" set. I've often wondered why full length versions of the "new hits" weren't included. Perhaps they could have helped increased sales? "Cherry Pie" and "Somewhere" and Mary's by then 5 year old lead on "Can't Take My Eyes" were certainly doing them no favors.

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i think the supremes did a very poor job of evolving their shows and incorporating more of their own material. what worked in 1965 at the copa was not a sound strategy in 1972. i don't know if it was resistance from mary, if it was motown or what but clearly someone didn't have their head on straight.

From what i've heard, your complaint echos that of Jean's. her songs were being dropped from their shows and/or jammed into a brief medley. in some of their live recordings that i have they do 2 60s medleys and NO 70's MEDLEY!!! incredible!!!

I'm sure the audience, seeing "The Supremes" wanted and expected[[?) to hear the 60's hits. Which of course makes sense. But I would have dropped a lot of the "juvenile" songs like "Baby Love", and focused on the more "mature" songs, like "Reflections", "Love Child", or "Forever Came Today".

Here's my "fantasy" LIVE IN JAPAN :

Intro
Stoned Love [[Jean spoken part from back stage; all three come out on "Stoned Love" in unison)
Love Child
Touch
60's Medley:
[[Come See About Me
You Keep Me Hangin' On)
Nathan Jones
Floy Joy Medley:
[[Floy Joy
Automatically Sunshine)
Stop! In the Name of Love
Up the Ladder to the Roof
Stevie Wonder Medley:
[[Signed, Sealed, Delivered
For Once in my Life)
Bad Weather
Encore:
Reflections

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Originally Posted by marybrewster

I'm sure the audience, seeing "The Supremes" wanted and expected[[?) to hear the 60's hits. Which of course makes sense. But I would have dropped a lot of the "juvenile" songs like "Baby Love", and focused on the more "mature" songs, like "Reflections", "Love Child", or "Forever Came Today".

Here's my "fantasy" LIVE IN JAPAN :

Intro
Stoned Love [[Jean spoken part from back stage; all three come out on "Stoned Love" in unison)
Love Child
Touch
60's Medley:
[[Come See About Me
You Keep Me Hangin' On)
Nathan Jones
Floy Joy Medley:
[[Floy Joy
Automatically Sunshine)
Stop! In the Name of Love
Up the Ladder to the Roof
Stevie Wonder Medley:
[[Signed, Sealed, Delivered
For Once in my Life)
Bad Weather
Encore:
Reflections

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Gil Askey made a horrible mistake by bringing back the Farewell charts in 1972. They had revamped their show for the Frontier in 1971, but it didn't last too long. Rumor has it that Frontier engagement was recorded for a possible live album. They should have done another revamp but included all the hits of Jean and R&B songs that were hot at the time.

If I had been in charge of their live act, I would have cut back on the 60's tracks, showtunes and medleys. I would have included all of Jean hits in full and thrown in several big hits of the day like "If You Really Love Me," and "I Can See Clearly Now."

Intro: [[Signature "I Hear A Symphony" as used in the 60's)
You Keep Me Hangin' On
Where You Lead, I'll Follow
Love The One You're With
Stop! In The Name Of Love
Nathan Jones
60's Medley: [[Come See About Me/The Happening/You Can't Hurry Love)
Lean On Me
Floy Joy
Automatically Sunshine
I Can See Clearly Now [[Mary lead)
Up The Ladder To The Roof
If You Really Love Me
Bad Weather
Encore: Stoned Love

sup_fan, You made some good points. I was only considering the Nathan Jones charting with a new lead singer and not compare her with the Diana led group. Jean Terrell did amazingly well the first 2 years. I've often wondered why they didn't do Sullivan for Stoned Love and possibly squeezed Nathan in before he went off the air. I saw the Tonight Show and aside from the "false" start, it didn't come across well live and it should have been lip synced to get the full effect. I read years ago on the Carson site that that particular taping was destroyed long ago but then I've heard some audio floating around. Everything seemed like clockwork for The Supremes until that dreadful "Touch" when "Here Comes The Sunrise" was the obvious choice. I'm also very surprised they didn't do more tv with Nathan Jones. 1970 & 1971 were exceptional for someone who took over for Diana Ross. Some great records no matter the chart numbers. "Ladder" and the rest are all #1 to me. :)

it's too bad that more effort wasn't made to incorporate the albums into the live shows and really promote them. Looking at Diana's hbo special in 79 to promote The Boss, you not only have many of the album's songs included by the cover art and all too. obviously that was a massive, expensive show full of tricks probably not readily available in 71 or 72.

more album cuts should have been sung, their own hits should have been done in full length and not crammed into medleys. They should have also done more to promote their working with famous producers. Smokey and Stevie material could have been used. in their stage patter they could talk about the thrill of working with these superstars, etc.

i think had they really leveraged the Stevie connection, BW might have done better. Love the idea of them opening the show with BW, then talking about about how fun it was in the studio and then going into a medley of stevie songs like Superstition, if You Really love Me, etc.

Also it's a shame that with the Jimmy Webb set they didn't do more Jimmy Webb songs!! ideally they wouldn't have even bothered with this project. But since they did, they should have at least included more of his own catalog. At least that would have provided some more recognizable tunes.

I think the group was having such an identity crisis that they didn’t know which way to turn. At club dates especially, their hits were not well received as most ducats hadn’t heard Floy, Nathan etc. None of the JMC hits were as big as the DRTS top 12-15 and so the act wasn’t fueled by those as much as in the past. Of course, the fans were thrilled to hear them. Mary knew the new songs weren’t going over that well and was happy to try what had worked in the past, but that wasn’t working either. Meanwhile, ticket sales and quality of bookings were slipping. They really needed that one big smash like Ross luckily got early. By 72, they had lost their Vegas gig which is a huge indicator where things were going - especially when just a year later, Gladys would get her shot at Vegas on the strength of Midnight Train. So, with club work dissipating, they had to focus on one nighters but that also wasn’t going well as they hadn’t really grabbed the public’s attention yet. So, they kept trying new and old ideas to get back on track.

They were still playing Vegas in 72. They lost it in 73 but somehow got it back in 74

Sup_fan you have totally hit the nail on the head....i absolutely agree.

At the time of the Supremes [[1970 - 1973), they were frequently on the charts.

Up the ladder to the roof - 6
Stoned love - 3
River deep - mountain high - 11
Nathan Jones - 5
You gotta have love in your heart - 25
Floy Joy - 9
Automatically sunshine - 10
Bad weather - 37

We also saw some rather superb acts appearing in the charts [[leaving out the Temptations, Jackson 5, Diana, Stevie, Smokey):
- Why [[Diana, Supremes, Temptations) - 31
- Farewell is a lonely sound - Jimmy Ruffin - 8
- I'll say forever my love - Jimmy Ruffin - 7
- it's wonderful - Jimmy Ruffin -
- war - Edwin Starr - 3
- stop the war now - Edwin Starr - 33
- I can't help myself - 4 Tops - 10
- it's all in the game - 4 Tops - 5
- Simple game - 4 Tops - 3
- still water - 4 Tops - 10
- just 7 numbers - 4 Tops - 36
- Bernadette - 4 Tops - 23
- walk with me, talk with me darling - 4 Tops - 32
- Jimmy Mack - Martha Reeves + The Vandellas -- 21
- forget me not - Martha Reeves + The Vandellas - 11
- it's a shame - Motown Spinners - 20
- Indiana wants me - R. Dean Taylor - 2
- heaven must have sent you - The Elgins - 3
- put yourself in my place - The Elgins - 28
- these things will keep me loving you - The Velvelettes - 34
- Festival time - San Remo Strings - 39
- just walk in my shoes - Gladys Knight + The Pips - 35
- help me make it through the night - Gladys Knight + The Pips - 11
- my guy - Mary Wells - 14
- walk in the night - Jr Walker + The All Stars - 16
- take me girl I'm ready - Jr Walker + The All Stars - 16

Motown clearly continued to be a powerful presence in the charts, and if you blend into the above the plethora of hits by Diana, Smokey, Stevie, The Temptations, the J5, Michael Jackson, the support for the Supremes was definitely high on the list. Add to this mix the significant number of soul music [[such as by Aretha, Roberta Flack, Al Green, the Chi-Lites, Love Unlimited, Barry White, the Stylistics etc), the success of Motown being able to capture such a sizeable chunk of the market was quite amazing.

But there were at this time some spectacular failures:
- what's going on - Marvin Gaye [[and also Mercy, mercy me, Inner city blues)
- if I were your woman - Gladys Knight + The Pips
- masterpiece - the Temptations.

So whilst people may imply that the Supremes weren't so [[commercially) successful as in the 1964-1967, I would argue that the intensity for airplay and securing the all important chart positions had increased, diversified and yet, the Supremes continued to be an essential element in the Sound of Young America but times changed, and more acts were encroaching on Motown's golden era.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackguy69

They were still playing Vegas in 72. They lost it in 73 but somehow got it back in 74

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‘Their 3 year contract at the frontier was not picked up in 72 when they would be negotiating it - yes, they played there in ‘72 to finish their contract. They could not get another contract at any hotel except a one-off split bill with Joel Grey - a gigantic step down and, sadly, a harbinger of things to come. This, along with sinking album sales tell you everything you need to know about the success of the group. It needed a total makeover and no one was there to facilitate such a huge undertaking. Berry didn’t want to work with Jean, Mary wanted more leads and total control, Jean wanted her control and a bigger slice of the pie - ANOTHER new member - it was a mess. They had the talent, God knows, but not enough interest in the group to sustain their position. They needed a Lady Marmalade, When Will I See You Again or The like. Motown singles nosedived in ‘71 and took, JMC, Ross, Tops, Gladys, Martha just about everyone with them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gordy_hunk

At the time of the Supremes [[1970 - 1973), they were frequently on the charts.

Up the ladder to the roof - 6
Stoned love - 3
River deep - mountain high - 11
Nathan Jones - 5
You gotta have love in your heart - 25
Floy Joy - 9
Automatically sunshine - 10
Bad weather - 37

We also saw some rather superb acts appearing in the charts [[leaving out the Temptations, Jackson 5, Diana, Stevie, Smokey):
- Why [[Diana, Supremes, Temptations) - 31
- Farewell is a lonely sound - Jimmy Ruffin - 8
- I'll say forever my love - Jimmy Ruffin - 7
- it's wonderful - Jimmy Ruffin -
- war - Edwin Starr - 3
- stop the war now - Edwin Starr - 33
- I can't help myself - 4 Tops - 10
- it's all in the game - 4 Tops - 5
- Simple game - 4 Tops - 3
- still water - 4 Tops - 10
- just 7 numbers - 4 Tops - 36
- Bernadette - 4 Tops - 23
- walk with me, talk with me darling - 4 Tops - 32
- Jimmy Mack - Martha Reeves + The Vandellas -- 21
- forget me not - Martha Reeves + The Vandellas - 11
- it's a shame - Motown Spinners - 20
- Indiana wants me - R. Dean Taylor - 2
- heaven must have sent you - The Elgins - 3
- put yourself in my place - The Elgins - 28
- these things will keep me loving you - The Velvelettes - 34
- Festival time - San Remo Strings - 39
- just walk in my shoes - Gladys Knight + The Pips - 35
- help me make it through the night - Gladys Knight + The Pips - 11
- my guy - Mary Wells - 14
- walk in the night - Jr Walker + The All Stars - 16
- take me girl I'm ready - Jr Walker + The All Stars - 16

Motown clearly continued to be a powerful presence in the charts, and if you blend into the above the plethora of hits by Diana, Smokey, Stevie, The Temptations, the J5, Michael Jackson, the support for the Supremes was definitely high on the list. Add to this mix the significant number of soul music [[such as by Aretha, Roberta Flack, Al Green, the Chi-Lites, Love Unlimited, Barry White, the Stylistics etc), the success of Motown being able to capture such a sizeable chunk of the market was quite amazing.

But there were at this time some spectacular failures:
- what's going on - Marvin Gaye [[and also Mercy, mercy me, Inner city blues)
- if I were your woman - Gladys Knight + The Pips
- masterpiece - the Temptations.

So whilst people may imply that the Supremes weren't so [[commercially) successful as in the 1964-1967, I would argue that the intensity for airplay and securing the all important chart positions had increased, diversified and yet, the Supremes continued to be an essential element in the Sound of Young America but times changed, and more acts were encroaching on Motown's golden era.

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You are referring to UK chart positions here aren't you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bluebrock

You are referring to UK chart positions here aren't you?

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Of course. Unfortunately, I don't have access of the German or Dutch chart histories - although growing up in Europe, there were some rather strange Motown linked chart entries [[such as Dan The Banjo Man being a huge hit!).