Award season and Diana

as we enter the annual award season for Grammies and Oscars and all, i was thinking about the times Diana and/or the Supremes were nominated. unfortunately they never won. and of course there were many songs and albums that weren't even nominated but should have been.

figured we'd start with the 3 Oscar nominations for Diana [[including her two songs) and who she was up against. do you agree with the final winners, which are highlighted below? and yes, i know DIANA wasn't actually the one that would have won the song statue but close enough

Actress 1972
Diana Ross - LSTB
Liza Minelli - Cabaret
Maggie Smith - Travels with my Aunt
Cicely Tyson - Sounder
Liv Ullmann - The Emigrants

Original Song 1975
Theme from Mahogany - Mahogany
I'm Easy - Nashville
How Lucky can you Get - Funny Lady
Richard's Window - The other side of the Mountain
Now that we're in love - Whiffs

Original Song 1981
Endless Love - Endless Love
Arthur's Theme - Arthur
For your eyes only - For your eyes only
The First Time It Happens - The Great Muppet Caper
One More Hour - Ragtime

For the actresses, I've only seen Diana's and Cicely's performances, so I can't judge in total. Between Diana and Cicely, I'm probably more impressed with Cicely's acting performance. More and more I'm less impressed with Diana's acting in LSTB- although I do think it's good- and feel her incredible vocal performances is what really made her performance so memorable and highly rated.

Original song 1975...I actually think "Now That We're In Love" should have won, as I find the other songs, including Diana's, to be pretty boring.

Original song 1981...This one was a tough one. I spent eons hating "Endless Love", only to now sort of like it in recent years. I've loved "Arthur's Theme" [[and the great Christopher Cross, one of my all time favorite singers) forever. Perhaps this one should have been a tie that night. Lol I will say this: if "Arthur" was number one, "Endless Love" should have been the runner up. Does anyone know what came second in the voting, or more specifically where "Endless Love" ranked?

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

For the actresses, I've only seen Diana's and Cicely's performances, so I can't judge in total. Between Diana and Cicely, I'm probably more impressed with Cicely's acting performance. More and more I'm less impressed with Diana's acting in LSTB- although I do think it's good- and feel her incredible vocal performances is what really made her performance so memorable and highly rated.

Original song 1975...I actually think "Now That We're In Love" should have won, as I find the other songs, including Diana's, to be pretty boring.

Original song 1981...This one was a tough one. I spent eons hating "Endless Love", only to now sort of like it in recent years. I've loved "Arthur's Theme" [[and the great Christopher Cross, one of my all time favorite singers) forever. Perhaps this one should have been a tie that night. Lol I will say this: if "Arthur" was number one, "Endless Love" should have been the runner up. Does anyone know what came second in the voting, or more specifically where "Endless Love" ranked?

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Theme from Mahogany boring!!. One of the most beautiful movie themes/songs of all time imo. ;)
“Endless Love’ certainly remains one of the most iconic love songs of all time. It should definitely have beaten the pleasant, if rather tame “Arthur’s Theme” to the award. I may be biased of course.

Hands down in my opinion for BEST ACTRESS should have been Diana Ross in "Lady Sings The Blues". I think Liza did well as Sally Bowles but if Diana was not going to get it then Cicely Tyson in Sounder would be who I thought would take that trophy home.

For Original song I would have voted for "How Lucky Can You Get" and to be honest I don't remember "Im Easy".

Original Song should have been "Endless Love". I loved it from the first time I heard it and I still do.

There was some talk that Diana was either a front runner or second until Berry Gordy had a campaign for her that alienated Hollywood. Ross certainly surprised them with her performance but both Minnelli and Tyson were in films that were up for Best Picture and that always contributes to the likelihood of winning, though not necessarily.
If Diana had won, do you think her career in film would have been better/stronger? Minnelli won but her film career did not survive the "Oscar curse" as subsequent roles were not up to Cabaret. She did do well with the Arthur series and continued to do well on Broadway. Tyson continued to perform in quality work on television and Broadway. Her film career never reached its deserved heights.
Theme from Mahogany was a huge pop hit but the Oscars didn't start rewarding those until decades later. Nashville had created a lot of buzz in Hollywood. It was a pleasant enough song but not memorable, unlike Mahogany or How Lucky Can You Get.
Endless Love was a tender and popular song but the movie itself was not highly regarded in Hollywood. Arthur's Theme was also a popular song in a film that was nominated for more Oscars and won one for John Gielgud.

I don't think if Diana would have won ,it would have made any difference. Her acting career stalled , I think because she was to picky.
That said, she has somewhat of a dual career.
So I think the music was always a priority.
I do wished she would have dropped her guard a bit.
Cher seems to still be working and will be filming Mia 3 soon.

i think there were more factors regarding LSTB and the oscars.

1. cabaret is just a better film - the film tackles SO many more topics including the struggles of Sally, Cliff's sexuality conflicts, the issues of mob mentality and people blindly following a charismatic but terrible leader. there are just so many themes and statements being explored and being explored WELL!

2. liza not only beautifully portraits sally but she sings and danced extremely complex choreography.

Lady is a great film but it's "just" a love story. I'm not saying that's bad but the Academy and industry in the 70s was moving into darker, more intellectual films. Lady is more of a holdover from the types of movies of years past. so they probably didn't see it as modern and up to date as something like Cabaret.

so i think with or without Berry's ad campaign, Diana wasn't going to win

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

i think there were more factors regarding LSTB and the oscars.

1. cabaret is just a better film - the film tackles SO many more topics including the struggles of Sally, Cliff's sexuality conflicts, the issues of mob mentality and people blindly following a charismatic but terrible leader. there are just so many themes and statements being explored and being explored WELL!

2. liza not only beautifully portraits sally but she sings and danced extremely complex choreography.

Lady is a great film but it's "just" a love story. I'm not saying that's bad but the Academy and industry in the 70s was moving into darker, more intellectual films. Lady is more of a holdover from the types of movies of years past. so they probably didn't see it as modern and up to date as something like Cabaret.

so i think with or without Berry's ad campaign, Diana wasn't going to win

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I agree Cabaret is a better and more complex film. Liza Minelli's performance [acting, singing & dancing] is astounding and I can appreciate why she won the Oscar.

You're right, LSTB is more of a movie, recalling Hollwood's golden studio heydays. The two films are at other ends of a spectrum, but that doesn't make Diana Ross's acting any less astounding. I remember the buzz and excitement here in LA/Hollywood about both performances. Liza Minelli was even quoted, I believe, as thinking Diana would win the Oscar. Many had no idea Diana Ross could achieve such an acting tour de force. There probably were many issues and agendas involved, but I really think Berry Gordy's ad campaign was a contributing factor in the voting.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

i think there were more factors regarding LSTB and the oscars.

1. cabaret is just a better film - the film tackles SO many more topics including the struggles of Sally, Cliff's sexuality conflicts, the issues of mob mentality and people blindly following a charismatic but terrible leader. there are just so many themes and statements being explored and being explored WELL!

2. liza not only beautifully portraits sally but she sings and danced extremely complex choreography.

Lady is a great film but it's "just" a love story. I'm not saying that's bad but the Academy and industry in the 70s was moving into darker, more intellectual films. Lady is more of a holdover from the types of movies of years past. so they probably didn't see it as modern and up to date as something like Cabaret.

so i think with or without Berry's ad campaign, Diana wasn't going to win

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Lady wasn't "just" a love story -- it was also a biopic [however inaccurate], a jazz musical, and a slice of African-American history. That being said, none of that invalidates your opinion of Cabaret as the stronger film--I'm just arguing that Lady had a heck of a lot more heft and significance than that for which you're giving it credit.

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Originally Posted by sansradio

Lady wasn't "just" a love story -- it was also a biopic [however inaccurate], a jazz musical, and a slice of African-American history. That being said, none of that invalidates your opinion of Cabaret as the stronger film--I'm just arguing that Lady had a heck of a lot more heft and significance than that for which you're giving it credit.

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sorry if i was a bit heavy handed. was doing that more for comparison sake and to sort of "channel" what the Academy might have been thinking. i don't think Lady is bad movie nor do i think it's insignificant. but i could imagine members of the A thinking "oh this is just a run-of-the-mill love story - ho hum"

now it has been eons since i've watched lady. i know there was the lynching scene which was quite powerful. i can't remember though how much they built up the racism angle that Billie had to contend with.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

sorry if i was a bit heavy handed. was doing that more for comparison sake and to sort of "channel" what the Academy might have been thinking. i don't think Lady is bad movie nor do i think it's insignificant. but i could imagine members of the A thinking "oh this is just a run-of-the-mill love story - ho hum"

now it has been eons since i've watched lady. i know there was the lynching scene which was quite powerful. i can't remember though how much they built up the racism angle that Billie had to contend with.

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The Klan march, where Billie is assaulted after lashing out at them on the bus, for example. There was also the radio broadcast scene, where her performance was pre-empted by two white vocalists.

ETA: The subtle segregation reference as Billie stands outside the roadside diner, quietly polishing her name on the bus' band logo, as her bandmates go inside to order for themselves and her. Hellifying filmmaking.

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Originally Posted by sansradio

The Klan march, where Billie is assaulted after lashing out at them on the bus, for example. There was also the radio broadcast scene, where her performance was pre-empted by two white vocalists.

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The incredible romantic chemistry between the films two leading actors seems to blur the mindfulness as to what the film was actually trying to depict. Child rape, racism, drug addiction being all very much a part of Billies life as presented in LSTB.

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Originally Posted by sansradio

The Klan march, where Billie is assaulted after lashing out at them on the bus, for example. There was also the radio broadcast scene, where her performance was pre-empted by two white vocalists.

ETA: The subtle segregation reference as Billie stands outside the roadside diner, quietly polishing her name on the bus' band logo, as her bandmates go inside to order for themselves and her. Hellifying filmmaking.

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oh that's right! i had forgotten those scenes!

Like to nominate The Boss as a milestone album for Diana
Still holds up.
Great album that got overlooked

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Originally Posted by daviddh

Like to nominate The Boss as a milestone album for Diana
Still holds up.
Great album that got overlooked

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and how did the chic album not get nominated? and was the LSTB album nominated?

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Originally Posted by Ollie9

Theme from Mahogany boring!!. One of the most beautiful movie themes/songs of all time imo. ;)
“Endless Love’ certainly remains one of the most iconic love songs of all time. It should definitely have beaten the pleasant, if rather tame “Arthur’s Theme” to the award. I may be biased of course.

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Biased indeed.:p

"Endless Love" is so schmaltzy. "Arthur's Theme" has some bounce to it. But I think either one were really great candidates.

As far as "Theme From Mahogany", yeah, it bores me. I've never liked it, although the live versions are okay. I'm surprised the song did as well as it did.

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

Biased indeed.:p
As far as "Theme From Mahogany", yeah, it bores me. I've never liked it, although the live versions are okay. I'm surprised the song did as well as it did.

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I find the whole thing simply captivating from start to finish. That iconic intro. Diana’s wistful and poignant vocal performance. The symphonic crescendo the song reaches with lyrics that most of us have related to at some point in our lives.
Who could ever forget the image of Diana standing on that bridge, swathed in fur miming her heart out.
The fact the song has been covered so many times is telling of its timeless appeal. :cool:

i love both songs too even though i never listen to Endless. it's just too overdone IMO like Baby Love. but that doesn't mean i don't recognize it's amazing performance and importance.

as for Mahogany, that's a stunning song with an impeccable lead from Diana. understated, mesmerizing. Masser also talks about the journey of the tune. the song modulates through multiple key changes but ends back at the original. so the structure of the song also is wondering where it's going. that's a masterful job of composition. each key change adds edge and intensity to the piece but after, literally, going full circle, it ends right back where it started.

this is one of the highlights of her entire discography

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

i love both songs too even though i never listen to Endless. it's just too overdone IMO like Baby Love. but that doesn't mean i don't recognize it's amazing performance and importance.

as for Mahogany, that's a stunning song with an impeccable lead from Diana. understated, mesmerizing. Masser also talks about the journey of the tune. the song modulates through multiple key changes but ends back at the original. so the structure of the song also is wondering where it's going. that's a masterful job of composition. each key change adds edge and intensity to the piece but after, literally, going full circle, it ends right back where it started.

this is one of the highlights of her entire discography

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Agree, sup_fan. Mahogany's a beautiful song and Ross is superb. I'm listening to it now thanks to your post. :)

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Originally Posted by lucky2012

Agree, sup_fan. Mahogany's a beautiful song and Ross is superb. I'm listening to it now thanks to your post. :)

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supposedly this recording session with Masser was NOT full of angst. we've heard that the TMITM session was challenging, although that was more with Ron Miller and Diana. then there's the story with LTISH and Masser telling Diana she hadn't done her homework on the song and ending the session. you KNOW that pissed Diana off lol. but then apparently she came back that night after thinking about it and finished off the session, or something like that.

then we've heard that the material around the To Love Again album was hard. I'm not sure if It's My Turn was a rough one - i thought that like Mahogany, it so connected with her that the sessions were rather smooth. but i think One More Chance was a problem. masser just made her go through it again and again and again. whipping her up into a frenzy and then getting the wild and passionate performance out of her.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

supposedly this recording session with Masser was NOT full of angst. we've heard that the TMITM session was challenging, although that was more with Ron Miller and Diana. then there's the story with LTISH and Masser telling Diana she hadn't done her homework on the song and ending the session. you KNOW that pissed Diana off lol. but then apparently she came back that night after thinking about it and finished off the session, or something like that.

then we've heard that the material around the To Love Again album was hard. I'm not sure if It's My Turn was a rough one - i thought that like Mahogany, it so connected with her that the sessions were rather smooth. but i think One More Chance was a problem. masser just made her go through it again and again and again. whipping her up into a frenzy and then getting the wild and passionate performance out of her.

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Not to mention her getting in a huff and storming out of the diana album sessions when Nile tactfully tried to tell her she was singing flat. It it wasn’t for contractual obligations, you have to wonder just how many albums would have actually made it to the completion stage.:eek:

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

supposedly this recording session with Masser was NOT full of angst. we've heard that the TMITM session was challenging, although that was more with Ron Miller and Diana. then there's the story with LTISH and Masser telling Diana she hadn't done her homework on the song and ending the session. you KNOW that pissed Diana off lol. but then apparently she came back that night after thinking about it and finished off the session, or something like that.

then we've heard that the material around the To Love Again album was hard. I'm not sure if It's My Turn was a rough one - i thought that like Mahogany, it so connected with her that the sessions were rather smooth. but i think One More Chance was a problem. masser just made her go through it again and again and again. whipping her up into a frenzy and then getting the wild and passionate performance out of her.

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I'd be surprised if It's My Turn was a rough session. She does seem to connect with the song. I remember her live performances on tv and her 1981 LA Forum special. That was at a time she was breaking away from Berry Gordy & Motown.

I can also understand how she would feel connected to Mahogany [[Do You Know Where You're Going To?).

It seems One More Chance has its detractors, but her performance on the song is one of my favorites on To Love Again. Her reading and phrasing of the lines are touching and poignant, right up to the "frenzied" ending, which to me is sort of a bookend with ANMHE in her Motown catalog [part one].

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Originally Posted by Ollie9

I find the whole thing simply captivating from start to finish. That iconic intro. Diana’s wistful and poignant vocal performance. The symphonic crescendo the song reaches with lyrics that most of us have related to at some point in our lives.
Who could ever forget the image of Diana standing on that bridge, swathed in fur miming her heart out.
The fact the song has been covered so many times is telling of its timeless appeal. :cool:

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You know I love my Ross to have some soul, most of the time. "Theme" could've been a Streisand song, that's just how "soul-less" it is, for my taste. It just does nothing for me. Even Thelma Houston's version doesn't move me one bit, and I love Thelma's voice.

I'm guessing Quality Control meetings were no longer a thing at Motown by this time, but if it were and I were involved, I definitely would have gotten this one wrong. I wouldn't have voted against it as an album cut. I wouldn't have even voted against it as the theme song to the movie. But I definitely would have voted against it as a single. I would have thought the public would have been as bored as I am. Lol But hey, we can't pick winners every time.:cool:

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Originally Posted by Ollie9

Not to mention her getting in a huff and storming out of the diana album sessions when Nile tactfully tried to tell her she was singing flat. It it wasn’t for contractual obligations, you have to wonder just how many albums would have actually made it to the completion stage.:eek:

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Diana storming off in a huff? I've never heard such lunacy!!:p

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Originally Posted by lucky2012

I'd be surprised if It's My Turn was a rough session. She does seem to connect with the song. I remember her live performances on tv and her 1981 LA Forum special. That was at a time she was breaking away from Berry Gordy & Motown.

I can also understand how she would feel connected to Mahogany [[Do You Know Where You're Going To?).

It seems One More Chance has its detractors, but her performance on the song is one of my favorites on To Love Again. Her reading and phrasing of the lines are touching and poignant, right up to the "frenzied" ending, which to me is sort of a bookend with ANMHE in her Motown catalog [part one].

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She does a great job on "One More Chance". The only thing I don't care a whole lot for is the chorus, but those verses are beautiful. She does cut loose at the end and for me that is always a huge treat. I love when Diana uses the full power of her voice.

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

She does a great job on "One More Chance". The only thing I don't care a whole lot for is the chorus, but those verses are beautiful. She does cut loose at the end and for me that is always a huge treat. I love when Diana uses the full power of her voice.

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i think the ending of OMC is too much grunting and growling. that vocal effect just wasn't really part of DR. i also find her really high notes on OMC to struggle to stay on pitch, especially as the ending is going into it's frenzy.

i think she whipped up just as much anguish and emotion on Mountain or The Boss yet she sounds much better

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

You know I love my Ross to have some soul, most of the time. "Theme" could've been a Streisand song, that's just how "soul-less" it is, for my taste. It just does nothing for me. Even Thelma Houston's version doesn't move me one bit, and I love Thelma's voice.

I'm guessing Quality Control meetings were no longer a thing at Motown by this time, but if it were and I were involved, I definitely would have gotten this one wrong. I wouldn't have voted against it as an album cut. I wouldn't have even voted against it as the theme song to the movie. But I definitely would have voted against it as a single. I would have thought the public would have been as bored as I am. Lol But hey, we can't pick winners every time.:cool:

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i don't disagree with you that Mahogany is a much more pop ballad than traditional soul ballad. but DR as a singer typically wasn't a "soul" singer. she certainly didn't approach her music like Aretha would have or like Gladys Knight or Martha. or even Jean Terrell. DR is rarely about vocal acrobatics or pyrotechnics. but what you get is just stunning lyrical interpretation, amazing vocal control, a true focus on the melody. and she does this in the studio and on stage. she's might add little bits here and there to the live version but generally she still is committed to conveying the song. that's just the magic and style of Diana

we've talked in the past about sort of the opposite. how in the studio, Jean was doing unadorned vocals - singing the song straight. but when live, Jean would go to town. sometimes it worked but sometimes IMO it did not.

i love the studio versions of Stoned Love and I Guess I'll Miss The Man [[even if IGIMTM should never have been a single). the recorded versions are very straight forward with little embellishments or runs or going off the melody line. on the live versions of Man, Jean does add to it but maintains the melody. it's a very different performance but equally enjoyable.

with SL, most of the live versions Jean is going so far off book that the melody is lost. she ad libs and mumbles her way through the Live In Japan version and IMO ruins the song. SL has an incredibly powerful message and it's also a big song - lots going on around that melody. when jean goes all crazy and soulful on it, she abandons the melody and meaning is lost. here it doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

You know I love my Ross to have some soul, most of the time. "Theme" could've been a Streisand song, that's just how "soul-less" it is, for my taste. It just does nothing for me. Even Thelma Houston's version doesn't move me one bit, and I love Thelma's voice.

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I love Thelma Houston, but I prefer Diana's Theme from Mahogany to
Thelma's Do You Know Where You're Going To? [I love Thelma's Can't We Try from her Ready to Roll album. I just found out that song was co-written by Ron Miller].

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

i don't disagree with you that Mahogany is a much more pop ballad than traditional soul ballad. but DR as a singer typically wasn't a "soul" singer. she certainly didn't approach her music like Aretha would have or like Gladys Knight or Martha. or even Jean Terrell.

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I never thought of Diana Ross as a "Soul" singer. Soul Music as a genre postdated the R&B and the R&B/Pop/Rock of Sixties Motown and the Supremes. Aretha was crowned Queen of Soul in 1967 and some have seen Gladys Knight as Motown's answer.

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DR is rarely about vocal acrobatics or pyrotechnics. but what you get is just stunning lyrical interpretation, amazing vocal control, a true focus on the melody. and she does this in the studio and on stage. she's might add little bits here and there to the live version but generally she still is committed to conveying the song. that's just the magic and style of Diana

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Your characterization/description is spot-on for me. They may not be Soul singers, but Diana Ross [and Barbra Streisand and Dionne Warwick] are amazing, magical, indeed soulful singers. They are also versatile. I used to resent the easy and lazy labelling of Ross or the Supremes as "soul singers". It would be like Aretha Franklin simply being referred to as an American Pop singer based on her record and dominance on Billboard's Hot 100 and Pop Album charts.

Best Actress - Cicely and Liza had better performances IMHO. Diana did what we call "overacting". She earned the nods she got but I don't think she would've won even if Berry hadn't done all that campaigning for it.

First one for Best Original Song - surprising that both Diana and Barbra's songs were up for an Oscar in 1976. Surprising that as great a writer/composer he was that Michael Masser didn't get more Oscar nominations. That said, I'm not familiar with any of the other songs nominated but I think because Nashville was such a hit in 75 that it's not surprising it was the big winner in that category.

Second one for BOS - Arthur's Theme was just better. I love Endless Love but I think it should've won a Grammy more so than the Oscar.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

i think there were more factors regarding LSTB and the oscars.

1. cabaret is just a better film - the film tackles SO many more topics including the struggles of Sally, Cliff's sexuality conflicts, the issues of mob mentality and people blindly following a charismatic but terrible leader. there are just so many themes and statements being explored and being explored WELL!

2. liza not only beautifully portraits sally but she sings and danced extremely complex choreography.

Lady is a great film but it's "just" a love story. I'm not saying that's bad but the Academy and industry in the 70s was moving into darker, more intellectual films. Lady is more of a holdover from the types of movies of years past. so they probably didn't see it as modern and up to date as something like Cabaret.

so i think with or without Berry's ad campaign, Diana wasn't going to win

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Right. Cabaret is a GREAT movie from start to finish. Liza and Joel Grey carried that film. When I look at LSTB now, I don't see "OSCAR WINNER". It just wasn't meant to be unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

i don't disagree with you that Mahogany is a much more pop ballad than traditional soul ballad. but DR as a singer typically wasn't a "soul" singer. she certainly didn't approach her music like Aretha would have or like Gladys Knight or Martha. or even Jean Terrell. DR is rarely about vocal acrobatics or pyrotechnics. but what you get is just stunning lyrical interpretation, amazing vocal control, a true focus on the melody. and she does this in the studio and on stage. she's might add little bits here and there to the live version but generally she still is committed to conveying the song. that's just the magic and style of Diana

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Diana is soul to me, most of the time, in a way that people like Sarah Vaughn or Lena Horne or even Billie Holiday are soul, even though the "soul genre" isn't what they did. Yet still there was that certain something- culturally- that came through. Diana could sing just about anything. Boxing her into a genre is disastrous. Lol However, whatever she sang, she often had that certain something- culturally- that came through, not to mention the tracks she recorded usually had an undeniable soul element. "Theme" lacks all of this, for my personal tastes.

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Originally Posted by lucky2012

I love Thelma Houston, but I prefer Diana's Theme from Mahogany to
Thelma's Do You Know Where You're Going To? [I love Thelma's Can't We Try from her Ready to Roll album. I just found out that song was co-written by Ron Miller].

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Yeah, of the two versions, I do prefer Diana's, but if I could go the rest of my life without ever hearing either one again, I'd be good.:cool:

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

sorry if i was a bit heavy handed. was doing that more for comparison sake and to sort of "channel" what the Academy might have been thinking. i don't think Lady is bad movie nor do i think it's insignificant. but i could imagine members of the A thinking "oh this is just a run-of-the-mill love story - ho hum"

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maybe you're remembering Suzanne De Passe recently explaining that once there was this excitement about using the appealing Billy De Williams as the leading man .... they then rewrote the movie's script on the fly to make LSTB a chick flick. And she ought to know as she and Chris Clark were the screenwriters.

LSTB DOES come across as a chick flick. I think Berry made Chris and Suzanne rewrite it so women could come see the film. He felt he could fill more seats in the theater like that. Obviously the presence of Billy Dee and Diana was to sell tickets. And the times I looked at it, yeah the "love story" around the characters of Billie and Louis McKay [[who IRL was an abusive, pimp-ish user) did overshadow everything else in the film and also considering the film was far from the real life travails of Billie probably played a part in why it lost the Oscar.

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Originally Posted by midnightman

also considering the film was far from the real life travails of Billie probably played a part in why it lost the Oscar.

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I think there were other factors involved other than that. Streisand won the oscar for Funny Girl which had very little in common with the life story of Fanny Brice.

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Originally Posted by Ollie9

I think there were other factors involved other than that. Streisand won the oscar for Funny Girl which had very little in common with the life story of Fanny Brice.

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I forgot that. You're right. I think I read somewhere, it might've been Call Her Miss Ross, where basically, Berry felt "okay since Diana wants to be Streisand, we'll do everything she did". "Funny Girl" wasn't about Fanny Brice and "Lady Sings the Blues" had little to do with the actual Billie Holiday.

It was basically fictional stories of real people done to bring attention to the TALENTS of the actresses rather than the legacies of the stars they were supposed to portray.

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Originally Posted by Ollie9

I think there were other factors involved other than that. Streisand won the oscar for Funny Girl which had very little in common with the life story of Fanny Brice.

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yeah i think the plot holes became more of an issue as time went on. Jazz purists and actual friends of Billie certainly made it known at the time that this film was LOOSELY based on her. but i think it's more part of the more recent dismissive attitudes towards motown, the sups, DR that has played up the issue. today there's more of a trend for much more true bio pics.