https://www.stereogum.com/2025684/th...e-number-ones/
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Hey I was just about to post this. Nice article. First time I heard the Janet Jackeson "If", and listened to the sampling of "Someday"
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wow.. great analytical and right on target!
The Supremes ended in April of 1967 when Florence Ballard was told she would no longer be with the group. Everything after [[even when Flo came back briefly) was just a formality.
I disagree.. It is one of the best of their hits. IMO
It’s basically an opinion piece so “biased” isn’t even really a factor. We know it’s an opinion piece because he freely admits his, you know, opinion; “The Supremes kept going after Ross left and even scored a handful of hits, but the Supremes without Diana Ross weren’t really the Supremes.)”
I agree with Floyjoy: The Supremes ceased to exist when Flo left. If just any grouping is The Supremes, then they lasted until RTL ended. Certainly Ross with 2 Supremes is equal to or more legit than Mary With 2 Supremes.
No, they have to have "The Supreme, Supreme", Mary Wilson. Anything less is fake......
There was never a group called "The Supremes" contracted to Motown that did not include Mary Wilson. Everything after June 12, 1977 is just a tribute act. Fact! As we all know, RTL failed miserably and was cancelled. To now say that "certainly Ross with 2 Supremes is equal to or more legit than Mary and 2 Supremes" is ridiculous and the public showed everyone just that! LOL!!! That thing called RTL was told to go home and take a seat including Diana Ross.
That’s what the public said to MSC and MSS. RTL failed because of many factors including Mary’s public campaign against it, astronomical ticket prices and gigantic venues. MSS couldn’t make money even in small venues at low prices with no one bad mouthing them. RTL sold out Madison Square Garden and grossed 1.3 million. The last time Mary’s Supremes played Madison Square Garden was part of an oldies act that got boo-ed off the stage. If you want to compare apples to apples, let’s go.
If Diana, Scherrie and Lynda wanted to play the itty bitty venues Mary’s groupings did, they’d have sold them out in a day and still be playing them. The lowest gross RTL did was 375k in Columbus. MSS didn’t do that much in months.
‘’Both groups had their own claim to legitimacy, but if you are going to talk about fan rejection, the public was much more loud, clear and sustained on their attempt to continue after Ross and Jean left and they told Mary’s groups to go home and take a seat - which is why she quit trying and took that seat......LOL!!!
[QUOTE=TheMotownManiac;492881]That’s what the public said to MSC and MSS. RTL failed because of many factors including Mary’s public campaign against it, astronomical ticket prices and gigantic venues. MSS couldn’t make money even in small venues at low prices with no one bad mouthing them. RTL sold out Madison Square Garden and grossed 1.3 million. The last time Mary’s Supremes played Madison Square Garden was part of an oldies act that got boo-ed off the stage. If you want to compare apples to apples, let’s go.
If Diana, Scherrie and Lynda wanted to play the itty bitty venues Mary’s groupings did, they’d have sold them out in a day and still be playing them. The lowest gross RTL did was 375k in Columbus. MSS didn’t do that much in months.
‘’Both groups had their own claim to legitimacy, but if you are going to talk about fan rejection, the public was much more loud, clear and sustained on their attempt to continue after Ross and Jean left and they told Mary’s groups to go home and take a seat - which is why she quit trying and took that seat......LOL!!![/QUO
Great post. Speaking personally my interest in the Supremes pretty much ended when Jean quit, but you make some great points here. Well said.
That's an interesting position to take. But I understand it, even if I'm not of the same mindset. The truth is that replacement singers often make the new grouping seem illegitimate. Aside from Flo being replaced with someone new, the group also underwent a name change, a mostly new more glamorous image, and for much of the DRATS period it did sometimes seem like it was a solo artist with her two backup singers. When you really look at what happened post Flo's exit, it does seem like an almost drastic change in the way the group was presented. So I can understand why some fans might have used the end of the original trio as the point where the group ceased to be the group and then became something else entirely. Diana still being the lead singer helped to maintain a resemblance of identity to the original trio. Once she left, there was only Mary as an original. One original with two replacements can look like an illegitimate group to some folks. So I get it.
I agree V. Of their hits, "Someday We'll Be Together" is probably easily in my top 5 favorites. A perfect record IMO. I love everything about it. I can't even imagine it without Johnny's ad libs. Although it might be interesting if there was ever a mixed version without his ad libs to see what that might have sounded like.
[QUOTE=Bluebrock;492884]
Well, I’m so tired of the latrine logic to diss RTL. Yes, it was a mess, but there were a lot of cooks spoiling the broth - yet the show itself was fantastic. I saw it 3 times and I’ve never met one person who didn’t love it. There’s reason for some to not approve and I respect that. I’d have loved a real reunion - a happy one. But there’s no way Ross is gonna forgive and embrace Mary, so it would have been a act but it would have played out better. Today, the only Supreme living with regrets about how it played out is Mary. I’m sure Ross never thinks of it, and Cindy can’t, so, why bring up ugly crap ? Oh, yeah, some thrive on it.
‘’When Flo left, I was sick and really just focused on Ross. When she left, I was sicker, but still emjoyed the new group for what it was: a B minus version of DMF. They were, however, accessible and that was amazing! Getting to know them was stupendous and totally colored my vision of the group. So, for me, Diana Scherrie Linda was just as good as having Mary and Cindy.
Living here in Los Angeles, I bought two tickets for RTL right at the moment they went on sale. Of course, I would have preferred Diana, Mary, Cindy — the same lineup I saw in concert in 1969 when they gave their last performance as THAT group in L.A. Imagine my disappointment when the plug was pulled on RTL and it never made it to L.A. I would have much rather seen RTL than receive a refund. So, it does sour the memory of it because I was all set to go.
I think we all love the 'classic' group from 64 - 66. they started out with Where and being cute girls that were embarking on a wonderfully exciting and successful adventure. By 66 they had evolved into young women and more mature sounds with YCHL, YKMHO and LIHANYG
if Flo hadn't left though, the group would have had to continue to evolve. I think that the chart hiccups DRATS ran into in 67 - 69 would have occurred if it was still DMF. the group's approach and sound wasn't as consistently commercially successful with record buyers.
So i think even if the group had remained intact, things would have been quite different. I look at the overall years of the Supremes and one full entity, with personnel changes. sure it all built off of the wild success of the classic group. but the artistic statement that MJC were making in the early 70s was, IMO, as strong as what DMF were doing. or if not quite as strong, a very close second.
LOL - at the hiccups- I totally agree that Personnel had nothing to do with the hit status of the records - they just put out some duds. That being said, I always, secretly, kind of felt that Reflections stopping at the penultimate position was God’s way of punishing all involved for removing my very own Florence Ballard from The Supremes. Silly, aren’t I?
i look at the group as 6 different versions - each with its own statement and rate of success. DRTS being saved by the two platinum singles and and great TV performances. JMC two great albums far surpassing any collection their predecessor presented as well as a landmark beacon of light 45 with Up The Ladder. JML had great live shows. SMC album was a great, viable commercial product. SMS provided high quality recorded work and Mary’s ballad work in full bloom.
I cannot, however, look at SMS and see The Supremes except in name only.
Exactly - this is an opinion page and there are a lot of ways to interpret “The Supremes”
i loved each group of the supremes but i cherish the original trio with the excitment of those records going to no. 1 through the peak years and again when jean terrell stepped in and did the impossible getting three hit records 2 in the top ten one going to no.1 on the r&b chart on this day 48 years ago and the excitement 1970 brought them especially when that right on album came out. Of course each grouping brought a little heartache as each new trio edition meant someone had left. All said each trio brought something to t legacy. The last supremes album mss was equally special w great singing each girl taking leads. Love child being a great vehicle puting dmc back on top after t loss of hdh and the pain of ballards ouster. The heartache of cindy leaving in 72 but lynda coming in to a supposed bad weather gem hit record that didnt move but jml looking great on stage and in concert
. So each group had something offer, even the travesty of diana lynda and scherrie rtl was exciting the day it hit philadelphia and vh1 broadcast t first 20 minutes.
My fave trio was also, by far the original. But if you liked all incarnations and each member, why do you feel Diana, Lynda and Scherrie was a travesty?
Am I missing something? The Supremes performed their last show in England in1977. RTL flopped because Mary and Cindy wernt there hence low ticket sales. Not rocket science.
You're not missing a thing. You just stated the facts that no one can dispute honestly! People try to spin the truth over and over and it never works. They tried to claim that RTL failed because the ticket prices were to high when I know people didn't even go to the trouble of checking ticket prices once it was announced that Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong would not be on that tour!
Exactly. I would have paid those prices for Cindy, Mary and Diane. Certainly not for Diana and two 70s Supremes who never sang with her. Hello???
Of course. As Berry Gordy said she was “the heart and soul of the Supremes.”
Berry also told Mary she couldn’t sing. It’s true, RTL ended
1) because of ticket sales, and, price WAS a consideration as well as no Mary/Cindy -
‘Also, Mary did a lot of publicity saying Diana was singing with fake Supremes that much if the public believed.
However, those venues were very large - ten times the size venues The 70’s Supremes played. That must be taken into account. Also, and it’s documented, RTL was cancelled by Diana Ross - not TNT - who, cancelled two shows only “due to ticket sales”
and as a result, broke the contract with Diana Ross who cancelled all other shows while TNT was insisting the remaining shows would play and all dates remained on sale until just before each date came up. There are dozens of articles from back in the day stating how weird it is for a promoter to insist a show will be played when it’s star insists it’s been cancelled.
Lets tell the the whole truth, not just a small part. If Mary and Cindy were that popular, The 70s Supremes would not have basically gone broke and and quit - they scraped by for a few years and then lost money - and in lots smaller venues.
RTL died for a lot of reasons, but it still outsold any venues the 70s Supremes played anywhere at any time. Demand for Mary and Cindy? Somewhat, yes, but there’s been next to none of that before or since RTL.
did not know Diana cancelled the tour?? strange. I was living in Baltimore and on my way to the show when the announcer on the radio was making the announcement that the show was cancelled and not to come. I was livid. the next day on local radio they were blasting the cancellation at the last minute. why would she cancel. I have never known her to do so in the past.
the original billing was a reunion tour. they waited on Mary to sign on. up to that point it was still being billed as such. as I recall Mary went on tv 20/20 and called Diana spoiled . or something close to it. shortly there after Mary was off the tour and was told "the train left the station" Mary stated she and Cindy would do the tour .she went from promoting the tour... to not.
today, I think if the supremes were all men. they would have been paid equal.just my opinion. but to be fair, the plan was for diana to do her solo tour for her current album. she had already signed the deal with the idea of the supremes coming on board after the fact. diana also doubled marys salary but she declined it right? sad , it was their legacy, the decided to go out with a whimper. not sure who is to blame. sad it was cancelled. I never saw them originally and wanted to see them together for the first time. I feel cheated.
id like to point out that many other groups have had issues, like fleetwood mac with recently firing Lindsay Buckingham. although fans seems disapointed, they have not received nearly the bad pr that the supremes did? the tour is going on with out him. no cancellations. just a minor rumble. what is it with the Supremes. I have one answer but wont print it as to not start a war. no point. ill listen to my playlist and enjoy. all the ladies were talented.
She didn't cancel it, SFX and the public cancelled it! She nearly had a nervous breakdown after that tour was cancelled. By the 2nd week, radio stations in NYC and CT were trying to give away tickets through bogus radio contests LOL! "Win five tickets to see Diana Ross with the Supremes if you can tell me what day it is today......" hehehehehehe!
because mary and cindy were dished. And the tour was scarred w baf publicity
I remember Diana saying she wanted the tour to continue, and even offered to work and finish the tour for free. But, the promoters had the final say.