From 1976 and celebrating the Supremes 15th Anniversary. There is footage from the fan convention towards the end of the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-x0fLeS2jQ
From 1976 and celebrating the Supremes 15th Anniversary. There is footage from the fan convention towards the end of the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-x0fLeS2jQ
Been a while since I have seen this! Even when Susaye is sitting down she has the High Energy! Do you know if they sang This is Why I Believe?
Their voices are great but performance too frenzied.
Yeah, I never liked the pace of the "hits" medley. Those songs would have sounded great by these three had they slowed them down and stuck to the original arrangements of the songs. Looking at all these videos recently, makes me want to dig into my own archives. It made me remember how many shows and appearances by Mary Wilson and The Supremes that are not up on Youtube.
I remember during the week they were in town, they did a guest appearance on our local television dance show called "The Scene" with Nat Morris [[who is a friend of mine). They performed "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking" and "You're What's Missing In My Life". A short clip of the latter song was on Youtube years ago. They seemed very happy, very energic on the show I remember.
Dang it Marv I don’t remember that show. What channel was it on? The High Energy album should have charter much higher. Quite a few gems on it. I didn’t see it in any record store except one in Livonia. They had a whole display outside the store with all the new Motown releases.
What I liked most is that they were freer on stage and not the old stiff, standing behind microphones singing and delivering hokey stage patter in between songs.
Marv do you know wht the seating capacity was at that time? Thanks!
It was on WGPR Channel 62. The Scene ran every day, Mon. -Fri at 6:00 pm. It ran from October 1975 - 1987. Here is a clip from 1976:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiENSeb_ojs
I remember being at one of these shows and it as my first time seeing Susaye perform with the group. We got our tickets the day of the show so I don't think it was sold out. MSS sounded good but I have said it several times before that watching them you got the feeling something was missing.
The first official Supreme I ever saw perform live was Mary & The Supremes at the London Palladium in 78. This of course was not really the Supremes at all.
What do you think was the missing ingredient?. Was it perhaps Cindy’s absence that prevented the group from appearing more cohesive?.
I went to 2 shows,they were sold out,it was the disco music was the thing, at that time,so the Medley had a disco feel,The Supremes Mary Scherrie and Susaye were soooo good,i remember they got a standing ovation each night,the harmony blend was tight,all 3 ladies were INCREDIBLE.
This was Mary's "solo" show, but she kept the Supremes' name in the billing and sang with the two Karens.
There is another older thread here about her performance at the Palladium in 1978
https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthrea...Palladium-1978
As a group the Supremes always complimented each other on stage. MSS vocally were in top form but as a group they became three lead singers on stage. So in my eyes on stage they were no longer the Supremes they were MSS. It was hard to watch but they were great to listen to.
agreed - in the studio, it was an excellent lineup. but mary and management kept the same old tired Vegas-style show. Even when they did an overhaul, it was still Vegas. just newer content like the Dream Genie sequence.
They needed to come up with a totally new stage show format. And you're right. the staging and vocals needed to be completely redone too. There was so much of everyone singing lead - trading so many lines between the girls during songs, too much nonstop 3-part harmony. and far too much ad libbing and going off
I understand the point of no longer being the Sups almost to the point of wishing they'd skip the 60's hits. I saw Mary do the symphony show a while back and I thought it would not bother me if she never sang Baby Love again! But I assume that fans were expecting 60's at the Roostertail event. Mary has said several times there is value in the name. MSS is my fav grouping. Anytime I lent out their last 2 albums they always got rave reviews. I wish they would have made the break from Motown....... sorry for the disjointed post as I am super sick atm.
Yup. MSS were three lead singers who acted as though they were now having a hard time playing their positions. Mary had sung backup in the Supremes forever. That had been her main role for more than a decade. Scherrie did her time with Glass House for a few years, and Susaye put in time in Wonderlove and the Raylettes, if I'm not mistaken. So none of them were strangers to navigating the background. All of a sudden there seemed to be this free for all onstage. Even when someone was singing lead, the backup started to sound like they were in lead position right along with it. Cindy would not have competed for a lead, and when she was with Mary and Scherrie the group was very well balanced, visually and vocally. Remove Cindy and replace with Susaye and now there's a brand new dynamic. None of the ladies are really in control since Pedro was basically running the show. Had someone with the know how to take a step back, assess and critique had handled the Supremes, MSS could have undergone a restructure that might have made them a concert draw again. As is they come across as vocally talented but also somebody's drunk aunties deciding to get together and pretend to be the Supremes at the family reunion. Not a good look.
You know Mary isn't allowed to do what Diana can do. Stop it.:p
But honestly I'm still searching for these albums and concerts where it was all Mary all of the time. To the general public Scherrie was the lead singer, not Mary. It was Scherrie's leads on most of those singles.
I doubt any work was cut for an album after MSS. I think they may have gone into promoting that last album with at least a halfway understanding that this was probably it. Your suggestion is exactly what most groups get wrong. Imagine if Flo, Diana and Mary had sat down and spoken honestly about what they wanted and then forced- at least as much as they could considering the misogynistic relationship they were in with Gordy and some of the other male execs- these desires into some form of the Supremes where each girl was happy? So much drama could've been avoided, and as I've said before, the group could've ended in 1970 with all three originals going solo.
Fast forward to MSS, and this would've been another great time to explore this scenario. The problem is that Pedro was hovering and he was never going to allow Scherrie and Susaye the input that their talents deserved. Pedro's concern was Mary, IMO not because he believed in her in a similar way as Gordy believed in Diana, but Mary was Pedro's meal ticket, either as a Supreme or as a solo, he was going to do what he thought needed to be done to secure her bag either way, since her bag was his bag.
Also by now Mary certainly saw the group as her group, and rightfully so. She was an original, the others were replacements. Mary Wilson is Queen Supreme after all. She probably was very interested at elevating her spot and saw the elevations of the others as threatening. Not that I think Mary was mean spirted, but I do think she had an attitude of the Supremes are her group and Scherrie and Susaye just need to show up and sing. Mary and Pedro will handle the rest. And on a certain level I understand that. The problem is that this attitude never works. It's essentially the same attitude that Diana and Gordy had about Flo and Mary: show up and sing and nobody gets hurt. Except it was hurtful that Flo and Mary's talents and aspirations weren't being considered, only Diana's. Which was worse since Flo and Mary were as original as Diana was. One would think Mary might have considered that with MSS but apparently not. Of course even if she had been interested in that would Pedro have let that go on? Nope.
i've not heard of any additional recording sessions beyond those from the MS&S lp but i don't know. I have some old fan club newsletters from the time and had the typical interviews with the girls talking about plans and all. Susaye mentions writing and producing for the group but again, who knows. it doesn't seem like there are any unreleased tracks from MS&S although there were some alt versions. at least no completed unreleased tracks. and Mary made the decision to go solo by Dec 76 - the lp was released in October. so not a lot of time to be back in the studios.
I've also heard fan rumors that the Hollands were having some problems with the motown people again. anyone else know of this?
totally agree. another thing is that sometimes there's too much of a good thing. like trading off lines in a song, 3-part harmony, all the different leads. Each of these ideas has merit especially given the vocal talents of MSS. But to have the entire show basically as non-stop 3 part harmony and every song bounces the lead around verse by verse to each girl, etc and you get a hot mess. by doing these elements too much you degrade the value of each. There are times when their 3 part live harmonies were gorgeous and others where they're dancing so much and racing all over the stage so much that they're breathless and then out of tune.
I like the dance routine for Let Yourself Go in the HE video clips. but it's an intricate routine. for a video or when they're lip syncing, fine. but when they're singing live they should have chopped the routine to mostly standing there and singing.
Also someone needed to regular the ad libbing and singing off of the main parts because, again, a little goes a long way.
again Ran, great post. completely agree
my 2 cents to add is that IMO Mary worked best [[if we're talking about the pop genre) as a member of a group. I love that she expanded her role within the supremes unit. But i think it was unwise to try and launch herself as a pop solo superstar. A good friend of my is dean at a top conservatory and she says one of her least favorite activities is having to tell a student that it will be a struggle for them to make a career out of being a concert solo pianist or whatever they play. They might be an excellent player but to tour the world as a soloist and play the top concertos with major orchestras isn't going to happen. it's a hard but unfortunately necessary discussion that has to occur. I feel that with the idea of Mary as a pop singer.
within the supremes she was firmly established as a pop group member and worked beautifully there. had she wanted to go into other areas like jazz or intimate club work, i think she could have been very successful too. but pop solo wasn't her forte. she should have stayed with the supremes and worked to make the group a viable ongoing institution
Gee marv/luke/det...maybe to see one of the greatest entertainers of all time [[per the opinion of everyone who doesn’t live on planet marv/mary. Shame the European tour is canceled due to Covid. She sold out huge venues and more dates had to me added. Once again, you “three” are living in an alternate reality. At lease she allows photographs these days and isn’t kicking people out. Hehehehehe! LOL!
[QUOTE=RanRan79;573906] “So much drama could've been avoided, and as I've said before, the group could've ended in 1970 with all three originals going solo.”
Well Berry said that he washed his hands of the whole goddamned group. Somewhere I read that the shelf life of a group with original members is typically abt 10 yrs. Of course there are exceptions. Could they have plucked Flo out of the group and carved a solo career for her and incorporated her comedic talents? Maybe she could have had a career that was a bit less stressful. Mary até it up and loved every minute of it. She would have been a great jazz singer. I don’t mind Mary singing pop tunes. Diana did not posses the group mentality, so yeah 1970 disband the whole damn group. But Motown focused pretty on Diana’s career, so I don’t think they would have spent the time on solos careers for another 2 females artists. Ran are you suggesting that the remaining Sups would have looked to other labels?