Today
04:38 AM
Most Played Motown Album
Whats everyone’s favorite album from a motown artist?
Mines meet the supremes in stereo the mono album is absolutely dreadful.
Mines meet the supremes in stereo the mono album is absolutely dreadful.
Today
03:27 AM
Favorite Post Motown Songs from Famous Motown Artists
What are some of your favorite songs made by famous Motown acts after they left Motown?
For me I'm personally leaving Michael Jackson out of this, I consider him a completely different situation
For me I'm personally leaving Michael Jackson out of this, I consider him a completely different situation
Yesterday
02:48 AM
"Quicksand" - Versions
Do our forum mix experts concur with the findings below?
https://www.top40musiconcd.com/forum...479_page2.html
https://www.top40musiconcd.com/forum...479_page2.html
Non-hit mono mix from {supposed} first pressings of 45 {if they exist at all}
Hit mono mix from later pressings of 45
Non-hit mono mix from Motown Yesteryear 45
1966 stereo mix from Greatest Hits LP
Non-hit 1966 {1964?} stereo mix from A Collection Of 16 Original Big Hits Volume 3 LP
Non-hit 2005 stereo remix by Tom Moulton
It's on Hip-O Select's Complete Motown Singles Vol. 3 1963 Disc 5 {2005}, listed as "First Pressing", although I can't find any evidence that this was ever released on vinyl.
I believe that this is the full performance of the song, running out to 2:45. All the other configurations described below can be edited from this full performance, albeit with different mixes/panning/effects.
The track starts with a bass drum hit.
The clap track disappears at 0:12 for a 4-beat horn fill {not much going on in the fill}.
After the horn fill, there are 48 beats of instrumental riffing before the vocals start.
At the end of the riffing, there's a horn note, followed by the word "quicksand" at 0:29.
There's a reasonable amount of reverb on the drums in the break from 2:09 to 2:15.
The song fades starting at 2:42, on the word "closer".
By 2:44, the volume is way down to about -30 dB.
The full fade ends around 2:45.
I believe that this is the full performance of the song, running out to 2:45. All the other configurations described below can be edited from this full performance, albeit with different mixes/panning/effects.
The track starts with a bass drum hit.
The clap track disappears at 0:12 for a 4-beat horn fill {not much going on in the fill}.
After the horn fill, there are 48 beats of instrumental riffing before the vocals start.
At the end of the riffing, there's a horn note, followed by the word "quicksand" at 0:29.
There's a reasonable amount of reverb on the drums in the break from 2:09 to 2:15.
The song fades starting at 2:42, on the word "closer".
By 2:44, the volume is way down to about -30 dB.
The full fade ends around 2:45.
Hit mono mix from later pressings of 45
I found at least five different 45 dubs on YouTube, and all were this mix. It runs 2:37. This version is on both US and UK 45s and the mono Greatest Hits LP.
This version deletes the bass drum hit and starts with the snare and horns.
The clap track disappears at 0:11 for a 4-beat horn fill {not much going on in the fill}.
After the horn fill, there are 32 beats of instrumental riffing before the vocals start. {The full take has 48 beats.}
The clap track is pushed way out in front during the riffing.
At the end of the riffing, there's a horn note, followed by the word "quicksand" at 0:24.
There's an utterly insane amount of reverb on the drums in the break from 2:03 to 2:08.
The song fades starting at 2:31, on the word "quicksand".
The full fade ends around 2:37.
The hit mono mix first appeared on CD on Motown's 2-CD Live Wire! The Singles 1962-1972 {1993}, where it sounds just fine. The same analog transfer is used on Rhino's The R&B Box: Thirty Years Of Rhythm & Blues {1994}.
There's a different analog transfer on Motown's Ultimate Collection {1998}. It has a very different EQ than Live Wire and has a much smaller dynamic range than that disc. I think I prefer the mastering on Live Wire.
The clap track disappears at 0:11 for a 4-beat horn fill {not much going on in the fill}.
After the horn fill, there are 32 beats of instrumental riffing before the vocals start. {The full take has 48 beats.}
The clap track is pushed way out in front during the riffing.
At the end of the riffing, there's a horn note, followed by the word "quicksand" at 0:24.
There's an utterly insane amount of reverb on the drums in the break from 2:03 to 2:08.
The song fades starting at 2:31, on the word "quicksand".
The full fade ends around 2:37.
The hit mono mix first appeared on CD on Motown's 2-CD Live Wire! The Singles 1962-1972 {1993}, where it sounds just fine. The same analog transfer is used on Rhino's The R&B Box: Thirty Years Of Rhythm & Blues {1994}.
There's a different analog transfer on Motown's Ultimate Collection {1998}. It has a very different EQ than Live Wire and has a much smaller dynamic range than that disc. I think I prefer the mastering on Live Wire.
Non-hit mono mix from Motown Yesteryear 45
Luckily, a YouTube user named Mr. Vinyl 67 uploaded a dub of the Motown Yesteryear 45 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJYx4LgGTYQ
I don't know if this mix originated on that 45 {released in 1973 as Motown Y 535F}, but there it is.
The track starts with the bass drum hit, but there's something over the drum sound, like a trailing note from a previous track. It's odd, and it's not on the "First Pressing" version described above.
The clap track disappears at 0:12 for a 4-beat horn fill {not much going on in the fill}.
After the horn fill, there are 32 beats of instrumental riffing before the vocals start. {The full take has 48 beats.}
The end of the riffing is different than the hit version, probably because the edit is in a different place than the hit version. The first vocals are "like quicksand" at 0:24.
There's a reasonable {not an insane} amount of reverb on the drums in the break from 2:03 to 2:08.
The song fades starting at 2:27, on the word "deeper".
The fade ends around 2:35.
This mix is available on CD as the "Second Pressing" version on Hip-O Select's Complete Motown Singles Vol. 3 1963 Disc 5 {2005}. So this version really did appear on a 45, just not one from 1963 or 1964. On this CD, it runs 2:35. The same analog transfer is used on Motown's 50th Anniversary: The Singles Collection 1962-1972 {2013}.
There's a different analog transfer on Motown's Motown Classic Hits Vol. IV {1995}. It has nice sound and a great dynamic range, but the opening drum beat is edited out and it starts with the snare and horns. You can tell from the waveform that it was edited after-the-fact; the waveform starts off relatively sharply here, unlike the gradual lead-in that you get from analog tape edit done for the hit 45 version.
The track starts with the bass drum hit, but there's something over the drum sound, like a trailing note from a previous track. It's odd, and it's not on the "First Pressing" version described above.
The clap track disappears at 0:12 for a 4-beat horn fill {not much going on in the fill}.
After the horn fill, there are 32 beats of instrumental riffing before the vocals start. {The full take has 48 beats.}
The end of the riffing is different than the hit version, probably because the edit is in a different place than the hit version. The first vocals are "like quicksand" at 0:24.
There's a reasonable {not an insane} amount of reverb on the drums in the break from 2:03 to 2:08.
The song fades starting at 2:27, on the word "deeper".
The fade ends around 2:35.
This mix is available on CD as the "Second Pressing" version on Hip-O Select's Complete Motown Singles Vol. 3 1963 Disc 5 {2005}. So this version really did appear on a 45, just not one from 1963 or 1964. On this CD, it runs 2:35. The same analog transfer is used on Motown's 50th Anniversary: The Singles Collection 1962-1972 {2013}.
There's a different analog transfer on Motown's Motown Classic Hits Vol. IV {1995}. It has nice sound and a great dynamic range, but the opening drum beat is edited out and it starts with the snare and horns. You can tell from the waveform that it was edited after-the-fact; the waveform starts off relatively sharply here, unlike the gradual lead-in that you get from analog tape edit done for the hit 45 version.
1966 stereo mix from Greatest Hits LP
"Quicksand" wasn't on any album before Greatest Hits. I think this is considered to be the "hit" stereo version, even though it came out over two years after the mono 45. It runs about 2:34.
The track starts with a bass drum hit.
The clap track doesn't disappear at 0:12 for the 4-beat horn fill {not much going on in the fill}.
After the horn fill, there are 32 beats of instrumental riffing before the vocals start. {The full take has 48 beats.}
The end of the riffing is different than the mono hit version, probably because the edit is in a different place than the hit version. The first vocals are "like quicksand" at 0:24.
There's a relatively small amount of reverb on the drums in the break from 2:04 to 2:09.
The song fades starting at 2:27, on the word "deeper".
The fade ends around 2:34.
This version appeared first on CD on Motown's Compact Command Performances 24 Greatest Hits {1986}, where it runs 2:34 and sounds just fine. The same analog transfer is used on:
The track starts with a bass drum hit.
The clap track doesn't disappear at 0:12 for the 4-beat horn fill {not much going on in the fill}.
After the horn fill, there are 32 beats of instrumental riffing before the vocals start. {The full take has 48 beats.}
The end of the riffing is different than the mono hit version, probably because the edit is in a different place than the hit version. The first vocals are "like quicksand" at 0:24.
There's a relatively small amount of reverb on the drums in the break from 2:04 to 2:09.
The song fades starting at 2:27, on the word "deeper".
The fade ends around 2:34.
This version appeared first on CD on Motown's Compact Command Performances 24 Greatest Hits {1986}, where it runs 2:34 and sounds just fine. The same analog transfer is used on:
- Silver Eagle's Motown 30th Anniversary Collection {1988} -has narrowed soundstage
- Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 16 1964 Shakin' All Over {1989, both original release and RE-1 reissue}
There's a different analog transfer on Motown's Best Of 20th Century Masters The Millennium Collection {1999}, which sounds quite nice.
I think, but can't confirm, that Motown's Martha And The VandellasGreatest Hits {1987} also has this version.
I think, but can't confirm, that Motown's Martha And The VandellasGreatest Hits {1987} also has this version.
Non-hit 1966 {1964?} stereo mix from A Collection Of 16 Original Big Hits Volume 3 LP
Discogs gives two contradictory dates for this release. This is most definitely not considered to be the "hit" stereo version. It runs 2:42.
The track starts with a bass drum hit.
The clap track disappears at 0:12 for a 4-beat horn fill {not much going on in the fill}.
After the horn fill, there are 48 beats of instrumental riffing before the vocals start. The clap track resumes for this 48 beats.
At the end of the riffing, there's a horn note, followed by the words "like quicksand" at 0:29.
There's a reasonable amount of reverb on the drums in the break from 2:09 to 2:15.
The song fades starting at 2:38, on the word "quicksand".
The full fade ends around 2:42.
I have this mix on Motown's A Collection Of 16 Big Hits Volume 3 {1989}. The same analog transfer is used on Hip-O's Martha And The VandellasGold {2006}.
The clap track disappears at 0:12 for a 4-beat horn fill {not much going on in the fill}.
After the horn fill, there are 48 beats of instrumental riffing before the vocals start. The clap track resumes for this 48 beats.
At the end of the riffing, there's a horn note, followed by the words "like quicksand" at 0:29.
There's a reasonable amount of reverb on the drums in the break from 2:09 to 2:15.
The song fades starting at 2:38, on the word "quicksand".
The full fade ends around 2:42.
I have this mix on Motown's A Collection Of 16 Big Hits Volume 3 {1989}. The same analog transfer is used on Hip-O's Martha And The VandellasGold {2006}.
Non-hit 2005 stereo remix by Tom Moulton
It's on Shout Factory's 4-CD The Motown Box {2005}.
The intro is edited {32 beats, rather than 48}, and the outro does indeed extend a little beyond the "first pressing" 45 version. It runs 2:45.
The intro is edited {32 beats, rather than 48}, and the outro does indeed extend a little beyond the "first pressing" 45 version. It runs 2:45.
I should point out that none of the mono mixes described above are fold-downs of any of the stereo mixes.
01-17-2025
08:47 PM
Joy
Anyone ever hear of this group?
RPM, PVBL9002
Producers: Patric van Blerk, Fransua Roos & Greg Cutler
Engineer: Greg Cutler
Recorded at: RPM Studios
Made up of the late Anneline Malebo, Felicia Marion and Thoka Ndlozi, Joy pre-empted the bubblegum era with their commercially appealing sound and image, crafted by producer Patric van Blerk [[Victory, Margaret Singana), one of the first to forge a multiracial crossover sound influenced by American soul and R&B. As South Africa's answer to the Supremes, Joy supported touring acts like Lamont Dozier, Clarence Carter, Dobie Gray and Leo Sayer. They were undoubtedly best known for the massive crossover hit 'Paradise Road' in 1980, which helped them earn two Saries Awards for Best Vocal Group and Best English LP of the Year in 1980 [[a landmark moment in the ethnically divided industry) and even led to a tour of the UK. High Life followed in 1981, but lacked a hit to take the trio further. They broke up in 1983, the year that Brenda Fassie, who had once filled in for Malebo in the Joy line-up, ushered in the bubblegum era with 'Weekend Special'. Although their sound was less fresh and funky that the bubblegum acts that followed in the footsteps, Joy's contribution to the local industry should never be forgotten.
JOY - High Life [[1981)
RPM, PVBL9002
Producers: Patric van Blerk, Fransua Roos & Greg Cutler
Engineer: Greg Cutler
Recorded at: RPM Studios
Yesterday
04:46 AM
Earl King at Motown
From The Bitter Southerner - Earl King Poet Laureate of New Orleans
"Before long, though, another opportunity came knocking. In 1963, local promoter Joe Jones claimed he had landed a contract for a group of New Orleans artists with Motown Records. But when King arrived in Detroit with Jones, he found out there was no contract, just an audition. Nonetheless, the Motown execs were so impressed with King’s songwriting and Smokey Johnson's drumming that they started recording tracks on the Louisiana visitors around the clock.
“The whole thing at Motown was different,” King said. “They were open 24 hours a day, cutting stuff. One time I was recording a song and a producer came in and said, ‘Hold tight, I’ll get you some background singers.’ He got someone from the Contours and someone else from Martha and the Vandellas at 5 in the morning and we did it right there.
“I could see how those songwriters could get intrigued with the setup at Motown, because everything you need is provided for you. Background voices, whatever musicians you need, you have all that at your disposal. So that makes it easy. I got a lot out of being up there at Motown. I was inspired to do a whole lot of writing when I came back.”
King wrote and produced about two dozen songs for Motown, not only on himself but also on such artists as Joe Jones, Patti Little sic [[Hattie Littles), and the Contours. But with Jones demanding a lot of money for his non-existent rights to the New Orleans artists and Motown offering less money than they could make at home, King and the rest packed their bags and returned South. Except for three songs on the 1996 compilation, “Blue Evolution,” none of King’s work for Motown has ever been released.
Still, he was undaunted. He returned to New Orleans fired up with creative energy, determined to write songs for all his favorite artists in town. At the top of the list was Professor Longhair, the eccentric pianist with the rumba beat, and King had just the right song for him, “Big Chief.”"
The three tracks of Earl King on "Motown's Blue Evolution" are -
"Three Knocks On My Door"
"A Man And A Book" [[also on one of the Soul Satisfaction CDs)
"Hunger Pains" - Jobete registered copyright 15 June 1967 by Earl K Johnson.
On DFTMC a couple of Hattie Littles tracks are shown as written by Earl Johnson.
Heebe Geebes [[Earl Johnson) published Jobete - Hattie Littles; recorded Hitsville, completed 22-Aug-63 ; produced by Clarence Paul ; [1st odb] - [pressing date unknown] [acetate]; LP [[M): JD 181
When I Was In School [[Earl Johnson) published Jobete - Hattie Littles; recorded Hitsville, completed 22-Aug-63 ; produced by Clarence Paul [pressing date unknown] [acetate]; LP [[M): JD 181
And a 3rd one which is credited to Marv Johnson [[full name Marv Earl Johnson) but given the date might be Earl King [[Earl Johnson).
Wish That You Were Here [[Marv Johnson) published Jobete - Hattie Littles; recorded Hitsville, completed 21-May-63 ; produced by Marv Johnson [pressing date unknown] [acetate]; 45 [[M): [no catalogue number]
So given the 3 Earl King tracks released and the [[potentially) 3 tracks by Hattie Littles from 2 dozen - what else may be in the can from Earl King / Earl Johnson and particularly on the singer Joe Jones [[who had the hit with "You Talk Too Much")?
You can find the Earl King article here
https://bittersoutherner.com/feature...of-new-orleans
"Before long, though, another opportunity came knocking. In 1963, local promoter Joe Jones claimed he had landed a contract for a group of New Orleans artists with Motown Records. But when King arrived in Detroit with Jones, he found out there was no contract, just an audition. Nonetheless, the Motown execs were so impressed with King’s songwriting and Smokey Johnson's drumming that they started recording tracks on the Louisiana visitors around the clock.
“The whole thing at Motown was different,” King said. “They were open 24 hours a day, cutting stuff. One time I was recording a song and a producer came in and said, ‘Hold tight, I’ll get you some background singers.’ He got someone from the Contours and someone else from Martha and the Vandellas at 5 in the morning and we did it right there.
“I could see how those songwriters could get intrigued with the setup at Motown, because everything you need is provided for you. Background voices, whatever musicians you need, you have all that at your disposal. So that makes it easy. I got a lot out of being up there at Motown. I was inspired to do a whole lot of writing when I came back.”
King wrote and produced about two dozen songs for Motown, not only on himself but also on such artists as Joe Jones, Patti Little sic [[Hattie Littles), and the Contours. But with Jones demanding a lot of money for his non-existent rights to the New Orleans artists and Motown offering less money than they could make at home, King and the rest packed their bags and returned South. Except for three songs on the 1996 compilation, “Blue Evolution,” none of King’s work for Motown has ever been released.
Still, he was undaunted. He returned to New Orleans fired up with creative energy, determined to write songs for all his favorite artists in town. At the top of the list was Professor Longhair, the eccentric pianist with the rumba beat, and King had just the right song for him, “Big Chief.”"
The three tracks of Earl King on "Motown's Blue Evolution" are -
"Three Knocks On My Door"
"A Man And A Book" [[also on one of the Soul Satisfaction CDs)
"Hunger Pains" - Jobete registered copyright 15 June 1967 by Earl K Johnson.
On DFTMC a couple of Hattie Littles tracks are shown as written by Earl Johnson.
Heebe Geebes [[Earl Johnson) published Jobete - Hattie Littles; recorded Hitsville, completed 22-Aug-63 ; produced by Clarence Paul ; [1st odb] - [pressing date unknown] [acetate]; LP [[M): JD 181
When I Was In School [[Earl Johnson) published Jobete - Hattie Littles; recorded Hitsville, completed 22-Aug-63 ; produced by Clarence Paul [pressing date unknown] [acetate]; LP [[M): JD 181
And a 3rd one which is credited to Marv Johnson [[full name Marv Earl Johnson) but given the date might be Earl King [[Earl Johnson).
Wish That You Were Here [[Marv Johnson) published Jobete - Hattie Littles; recorded Hitsville, completed 21-May-63 ; produced by Marv Johnson [pressing date unknown] [acetate]; 45 [[M): [no catalogue number]
So given the 3 Earl King tracks released and the [[potentially) 3 tracks by Hattie Littles from 2 dozen - what else may be in the can from Earl King / Earl Johnson and particularly on the singer Joe Jones [[who had the hit with "You Talk Too Much")?
You can find the Earl King article here
https://bittersoutherner.com/feature...of-new-orleans
04-19-2025
06:36 AM
Motown's harshest edit
Just been listening to the single edit of Diana Ross' Reach Out I'll Be There and the edit at 00:54 has got to be Motown's harshest edit.
What do you all think is the harshest?
What do you all think is the harshest?
Most Played Motown Album
Yesterday, 03:39 PM in Motown Forum