Today
07:28 PM
Motown Mystery on "Money"
Barrett Strong relates a mystery on who played on the song "Money" in todays Detroit News, article by Neal Rubin:
Barrett Strong remembers where he saw the Primes — who would eventually grow into the Temptations — at a club called the Phelps Lounge on Oakland Avenue.
But who were those two white kids?
In 1959, Strong recorded a song called "Money [[That's What I Want)" that became the first hit for Motown Records. Now he's 71 and he's had a … well, he won't call it a stroke the way his friends do, but the left side of his body just won't obey orders.
Even so, his memory keeps the beat. That place on Second Avenue where he used to do a Ray Charles act with a little band was the Dairy Workers Hall, and when the friends are trying to remember who sang "Cry Baby" back in 1963, he's the one who comes up with Garnet Mimms.
Those white kids, though, are a vexation. He remembers the recording session, and half a century later, we all know what came out of it:
The best things in life are free
But you can give them to the birds and bees
I need money [[That's what I want)
But he never knew the white boys' names, and he can't picture their faces. All he knows is that two kids from Cass Tech stepped off a bus, tapped on the door of what became Hitsville U.S.A., and asked if they could sit in.
Backbone of a dynasty
One carried a guitar, the other an electric bass. They plugged in, and they played. They helped make history, and then they made tracks.
Who were they? Where are they? Have they spent five decades telling disbelieving friends that they're the backbone of a song that's the backbone of a dynasty?
Maybe it's only curiosity, or maybe it comes with age and the sound of too many contemporaries' final notes. But Strong has been wondering.
He was only 18 himself when he recorded "Money," which made it to No. 23 on the pop chart and No. 2 in R&B.
Really, his greatest impact came as a songwriter. Along with the legendary Motown producer Norman Whitfield, he co-wrote "I Heard it Through the Grapevine" for Marvin Gaye, "War" for Edwin Starr, and a stack of classics for the Temps that included "Psychedelic Shack," "Papa Was a Rollin' Stone" and his favorite, "Just My Imagination [[Running Away With Me)."
Whitfield died four years ago, at 68. "His last words to me," Strong says, "were 'keep the legacy alive.'"
'Just like ghosts'
Strong is in the lobby of the Westin Hotel in Southfield in a comfortable chair he'll need help getting out of.
Thelma Stubbs-Mitchell, younger sister of the Four Tops' Levi Stubbs and part of the Stubbs Girls quintet, has picked him up at the high-rise senior center where he lives in a manner not befitting the man who wrote the words to "Cloud Nine."
That's an even older story than "Money." Some get rich, some get transportation and love from a team of devoted friends.
"Back in the day, I had a big 'fro," he's saying, and then he laughs as he lifts his black-and-plaid Tigers cap to display a shaven scalp.
"Long gone now."
He's still doing some producing, working mostly with bluesy rocker Eliza Neals. No sense retiring when the ideas and the melodies keep coming, the way they did in that early session in Studio A.
Strong played a Wurlitzer electric piano. There wasn't any money for a drummer, so songwriter Brian Holland thumped the skin of a tambourine. The Cass Tech kids did the rest, through dozens of takes in the era before dubbing.
"I knew the groove was there," he says, and his right foot starts to tap. The Beatles felt it; they covered the song in 1963. The Doors, Cheap Trick, Pearl Jam and dozens of others came later — and the white kids never came back.
"Just like ghosts," Strong says. Friendly ones, though, the kind he'd like to see again while the beat is still strong.
nrubin@detnews.com
[[313) 222-1874
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz20Q3gNqug
Barrett Strong remembers where he saw the Primes — who would eventually grow into the Temptations — at a club called the Phelps Lounge on Oakland Avenue.
But who were those two white kids?
In 1959, Strong recorded a song called "Money [[That's What I Want)" that became the first hit for Motown Records. Now he's 71 and he's had a … well, he won't call it a stroke the way his friends do, but the left side of his body just won't obey orders.
Even so, his memory keeps the beat. That place on Second Avenue where he used to do a Ray Charles act with a little band was the Dairy Workers Hall, and when the friends are trying to remember who sang "Cry Baby" back in 1963, he's the one who comes up with Garnet Mimms.
Those white kids, though, are a vexation. He remembers the recording session, and half a century later, we all know what came out of it:
The best things in life are free
But you can give them to the birds and bees
I need money [[That's what I want)
But he never knew the white boys' names, and he can't picture their faces. All he knows is that two kids from Cass Tech stepped off a bus, tapped on the door of what became Hitsville U.S.A., and asked if they could sit in.
Backbone of a dynasty
One carried a guitar, the other an electric bass. They plugged in, and they played. They helped make history, and then they made tracks.
Who were they? Where are they? Have they spent five decades telling disbelieving friends that they're the backbone of a song that's the backbone of a dynasty?
Maybe it's only curiosity, or maybe it comes with age and the sound of too many contemporaries' final notes. But Strong has been wondering.
He was only 18 himself when he recorded "Money," which made it to No. 23 on the pop chart and No. 2 in R&B.
Really, his greatest impact came as a songwriter. Along with the legendary Motown producer Norman Whitfield, he co-wrote "I Heard it Through the Grapevine" for Marvin Gaye, "War" for Edwin Starr, and a stack of classics for the Temps that included "Psychedelic Shack," "Papa Was a Rollin' Stone" and his favorite, "Just My Imagination [[Running Away With Me)."
Whitfield died four years ago, at 68. "His last words to me," Strong says, "were 'keep the legacy alive.'"
'Just like ghosts'
Strong is in the lobby of the Westin Hotel in Southfield in a comfortable chair he'll need help getting out of.
Thelma Stubbs-Mitchell, younger sister of the Four Tops' Levi Stubbs and part of the Stubbs Girls quintet, has picked him up at the high-rise senior center where he lives in a manner not befitting the man who wrote the words to "Cloud Nine."
That's an even older story than "Money." Some get rich, some get transportation and love from a team of devoted friends.
"Back in the day, I had a big 'fro," he's saying, and then he laughs as he lifts his black-and-plaid Tigers cap to display a shaven scalp.
"Long gone now."
He's still doing some producing, working mostly with bluesy rocker Eliza Neals. No sense retiring when the ideas and the melodies keep coming, the way they did in that early session in Studio A.
Strong played a Wurlitzer electric piano. There wasn't any money for a drummer, so songwriter Brian Holland thumped the skin of a tambourine. The Cass Tech kids did the rest, through dozens of takes in the era before dubbing.
"I knew the groove was there," he says, and his right foot starts to tap. The Beatles felt it; they covered the song in 1963. The Doors, Cheap Trick, Pearl Jam and dozens of others came later — and the white kids never came back.
"Just like ghosts," Strong says. Friendly ones, though, the kind he'd like to see again while the beat is still strong.
nrubin@detnews.com
[[313) 222-1874
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz20Q3gNqug
Today
07:46 PM
Four Marvelettes Songs That Should've Been Singles
i love the Marvelettes, so with that in mind I've often wondered about the following songs if released as singles, and yes I know that everything can't be but anyhow here goes....I Can't Turn Around- Tonight Was Made For Love[ it's so dreamy ]- I Know Better- and the ultra cool of- Don't Make Hurting Me A Habit[classic Marvelettes] any one else feel anything for any of the four tunes?
Today
06:02 AM
The Hollands at Motown as independents
Have we discussed how the Holland brothers [[Brian & Eddie) went back to Motown as independent producers in the 1970s? It's mentioned briefly in the liner notes of the Supremes' The Final Sessions, but not discussed in detail. Was Motown trying to catch lightening in a bottle twice or trying to settle some of the lawsuit the Hollands & Lamont ozier had against it.
When you look back at it, the arrangement didn't produce any major hits, although the Hollands got wo work with the Supremes, the Jackson 5 plus Michael and the Temptations again. Strange they weren't paired with Diana Ross or Marvin Gaye, who was basically producing himself by 1975.
The arrangement saw some talents like Michael Lovesmith, who was signed to the Hollands, produce albums for Motown.
Were the Hollands paid upfront for their work and does anyone know how much they charged?
Lamont Dozier was also working indepepently.
What is the general opinion of the Hollands' second time at Motown? Did it add to their legacy; Or should they have stayed away?
When you look back at it, the arrangement didn't produce any major hits, although the Hollands got wo work with the Supremes, the Jackson 5 plus Michael and the Temptations again. Strange they weren't paired with Diana Ross or Marvin Gaye, who was basically producing himself by 1975.
The arrangement saw some talents like Michael Lovesmith, who was signed to the Hollands, produce albums for Motown.
Were the Hollands paid upfront for their work and does anyone know how much they charged?
Lamont Dozier was also working indepepently.
What is the general opinion of the Hollands' second time at Motown? Did it add to their legacy; Or should they have stayed away?
01-17-2025
08:47 PM
Joy
Anyone ever hear of this group?
RPM, PVBL9002
Producers: Patric van Blerk, Fransua Roos & Greg Cutler
Engineer: Greg Cutler
Recorded at: RPM Studios
Made up of the late Anneline Malebo, Felicia Marion and Thoka Ndlozi, Joy pre-empted the bubblegum era with their commercially appealing sound and image, crafted by producer Patric van Blerk [[Victory, Margaret Singana), one of the first to forge a multiracial crossover sound influenced by American soul and R&B. As South Africa's answer to the Supremes, Joy supported touring acts like Lamont Dozier, Clarence Carter, Dobie Gray and Leo Sayer. They were undoubtedly best known for the massive crossover hit 'Paradise Road' in 1980, which helped them earn two Saries Awards for Best Vocal Group and Best English LP of the Year in 1980 [[a landmark moment in the ethnically divided industry) and even led to a tour of the UK. High Life followed in 1981, but lacked a hit to take the trio further. They broke up in 1983, the year that Brenda Fassie, who had once filled in for Malebo in the Joy line-up, ushered in the bubblegum era with 'Weekend Special'. Although their sound was less fresh and funky that the bubblegum acts that followed in the footsteps, Joy's contribution to the local industry should never be forgotten.
JOY - High Life [[1981)
RPM, PVBL9002
Producers: Patric van Blerk, Fransua Roos & Greg Cutler
Engineer: Greg Cutler
Recorded at: RPM Studios
Yesterday
07:13 PM
Motown 45 Numbering - Ain't It The Truth
Given the age of the original article I'd be surprised if this hasn't been posted here before but it's something I always find of interest. Refers to Motown's numbering system and this refers to an article originally written by Andy Rix and Steve Armitage in 1993.
The source here is the Soul Source website on October 24 2020 and I'll post both the link and the text below.
https://www.soul-source.co.uk/articl...e-truth-r4334/
If you haven't seen the article already please enjoy and thanks to Soul Source, Andy Rix and Steve Armitage for such fascinating information.
"An article Steve Armitage, and I, wrote in 1993 ... explaining the number system
Ain't That The Truth!
The Motown DM Master System
By Steve Armitage & Andy Rix Acknowledgements To Ron Murphy [[Detroit)
Have you ever wondered what the letters and figures on your Motown 45's stand for? Obviously there is the issue number [[e.g. Motown 1056), but there are also other numbers, different on every side of every record.
Examples might look like this:-
DM 003222 / DM-V 038221 / DM-J 084103
DM-WLB 098112 / DM-BLL 134324
Gradually, by late 1965 the DM is dropped, leaving the number/letter sequence like this:-
HLI 192313
If by now you're wondering "why do I care?" - Then as an avid collector, you might be interested in exactly how much music remains to be unearthed from the Motown vaults. You will be staggered!
D.M. stands for Duplicate Master. As tracks were mixed down from original session tapes [[not part of the D.M. series) and saved for issue [[or rejection) Motown needed a method of filing and retrieving it's mixed tapes.
During 1962 a series of letters were also added to the D.M. system. As listed in issue 7, these letters relate to the producer of the tracks in question. Later on further letters were added to the master number and these relate to the control room engineer who worked on the mixing session and the mixer [[often the producer). In some instances the same letter is repeated within the master number and this indicates that the same person was responsible for more than one of these functions. Let us take some examples of this:-
DM WLL-115307: The Temptations - "It's Growing"
This track was produced by Smokey Robinson, which is represented by the letter "W", and was engineered and mixed by L. T. Horn, whose code was represented by the letter "L".
It is to be found on Duplicate Master tape 115. The tape is on 10 1/2 inch reel which contains some 3600 feet of 1/2 inch tape. Recorded at 7 1/2 inches per second, it will hold up to 95 minutes of music. There are three tracks on the tape [[known as 3-track multitrack tape). Let us assume that between 20 and 30 songs of 2 to 3 minutes [[Motown rarely used longer!) can be recorded per track. Simply each D.M. tape will contain some 60-90 tracks. The song "It's Growing" by The Temptations is to be found as follows:-
TAPE 115 TRACK 3 SONG 07 [[On The Track)
Another example that illustrates where a different mixer and studio engineer were used is:-
WIL-179312: Marvin Gaye - "One More Heartache"
Again produced by Smokey Robinson and mixed by the same person who was responsible for the mixing of "It's Growing" by The Temptations [[L. T. Horn), this track was however engineered by a different person, who is represented by the letter "I".
It is interesting to note however that whilst Motown continued using this type of prefix through until the early Seventies, the codes were used for different producers during different periods of time. Examples of this can be traced to recordings using the letter "V" as the producer prefix. This letter represents the studio work of Brian Holland on recordings that were made up to 1968, whilst this same letter was also used for the studio work by Mike Valvano in the 1970's.
Now comes the fun. By the middle of 1966 some 214 of these Duplicate Master tapes had been registered. 214 multiplied by an average of a conservative 60 songs equals a staggering 12840 songs! Motown issued around 1200 separate tracks in the same period. So now we might have a 10-1 ratio of tracks 'In The Can'. Obviously this figure includes several mixes of each song, but our guess is that at least two titles are in the vault for each one known on disc. This is born out by the fact that the Jobete catalogue has a ratio of 70% of unissued titles.
At some point during 1966 Motown changed its recording procedures with the introduction of 1 /4" twin channel [[left and right) tapes for mixing sessions, following the demise of 3-track multitrack use. These recorded at 15" per second and held between 10 and 14 songs, dependent on length of the recordings. This series of duplicate masters began with D.M. 215 and was continued through until 1973, following Motown's re-location on the West Coast, with D.M. 1019 being the final tape registered - a total of 804 different tape reels.
An example from this series is:-
H-XK-V-240M05: The Supremes - "You Keep Me Hangin' On".
This is to be found on duplicate master 240. It was mixed in mono [[represented by the letter "M") and is the fifth track on this tape [[05). The track was produced by Brian Holland & Lamont Dozier [[H).
Another example is:-
F-I-I-505S02: Tammi Terrell - "Just Too Much To Hope For".
This track was mixed from the original session tape onto Duplicate Master 505, and was mixed in stereo, which is represented by the letter "S'', and this is the second track on this tape [[02). It was produced by Harvey Fuqua [[F).
Towards the end of this series it had become commonplace for promotional singles white label releases to feature the same song on both sides with the mono version on one side and the stereo version on the other. In some tracks cases consecutive were used as illustrated in the following example:-
M9-Ll-Ll-1013S02: David Ruffin - "Blood Donor's Needed"
[[Used on promotional copies of Motown 1223-A)
M9-Ll-Ll-1013M03: David Ruffin - "Blood Donor's Needed"
[[Used on the commercial release of Motown 1223-A)
There are a number of recordings that list a master number that includes the letter "S" for stereo, whilst they are in fact in mono. It should be noted that while these recordings were cut in mono the representation within the master number refers to the recording on the tape, and not the final cut, i.e. stereo mix/cut in mono.
Many of Motown's 1960's Detroit music producers are alive and well and living in America in 1993. Good health, and thanks guys!!!! "
The source here is the Soul Source website on October 24 2020 and I'll post both the link and the text below.
https://www.soul-source.co.uk/articl...e-truth-r4334/
If you haven't seen the article already please enjoy and thanks to Soul Source, Andy Rix and Steve Armitage for such fascinating information.
"An article Steve Armitage, and I, wrote in 1993 ... explaining the number system
Ain't That The Truth!
The Motown DM Master System
By Steve Armitage & Andy Rix Acknowledgements To Ron Murphy [[Detroit)
Have you ever wondered what the letters and figures on your Motown 45's stand for? Obviously there is the issue number [[e.g. Motown 1056), but there are also other numbers, different on every side of every record.
Examples might look like this:-
DM 003222 / DM-V 038221 / DM-J 084103
DM-WLB 098112 / DM-BLL 134324
Gradually, by late 1965 the DM is dropped, leaving the number/letter sequence like this:-
HLI 192313
If by now you're wondering "why do I care?" - Then as an avid collector, you might be interested in exactly how much music remains to be unearthed from the Motown vaults. You will be staggered!
D.M. stands for Duplicate Master. As tracks were mixed down from original session tapes [[not part of the D.M. series) and saved for issue [[or rejection) Motown needed a method of filing and retrieving it's mixed tapes.
During 1962 a series of letters were also added to the D.M. system. As listed in issue 7, these letters relate to the producer of the tracks in question. Later on further letters were added to the master number and these relate to the control room engineer who worked on the mixing session and the mixer [[often the producer). In some instances the same letter is repeated within the master number and this indicates that the same person was responsible for more than one of these functions. Let us take some examples of this:-
DM WLL-115307: The Temptations - "It's Growing"
This track was produced by Smokey Robinson, which is represented by the letter "W", and was engineered and mixed by L. T. Horn, whose code was represented by the letter "L".
It is to be found on Duplicate Master tape 115. The tape is on 10 1/2 inch reel which contains some 3600 feet of 1/2 inch tape. Recorded at 7 1/2 inches per second, it will hold up to 95 minutes of music. There are three tracks on the tape [[known as 3-track multitrack tape). Let us assume that between 20 and 30 songs of 2 to 3 minutes [[Motown rarely used longer!) can be recorded per track. Simply each D.M. tape will contain some 60-90 tracks. The song "It's Growing" by The Temptations is to be found as follows:-
TAPE 115 TRACK 3 SONG 07 [[On The Track)
Another example that illustrates where a different mixer and studio engineer were used is:-
WIL-179312: Marvin Gaye - "One More Heartache"
Again produced by Smokey Robinson and mixed by the same person who was responsible for the mixing of "It's Growing" by The Temptations [[L. T. Horn), this track was however engineered by a different person, who is represented by the letter "I".
It is interesting to note however that whilst Motown continued using this type of prefix through until the early Seventies, the codes were used for different producers during different periods of time. Examples of this can be traced to recordings using the letter "V" as the producer prefix. This letter represents the studio work of Brian Holland on recordings that were made up to 1968, whilst this same letter was also used for the studio work by Mike Valvano in the 1970's.
Now comes the fun. By the middle of 1966 some 214 of these Duplicate Master tapes had been registered. 214 multiplied by an average of a conservative 60 songs equals a staggering 12840 songs! Motown issued around 1200 separate tracks in the same period. So now we might have a 10-1 ratio of tracks 'In The Can'. Obviously this figure includes several mixes of each song, but our guess is that at least two titles are in the vault for each one known on disc. This is born out by the fact that the Jobete catalogue has a ratio of 70% of unissued titles.
At some point during 1966 Motown changed its recording procedures with the introduction of 1 /4" twin channel [[left and right) tapes for mixing sessions, following the demise of 3-track multitrack use. These recorded at 15" per second and held between 10 and 14 songs, dependent on length of the recordings. This series of duplicate masters began with D.M. 215 and was continued through until 1973, following Motown's re-location on the West Coast, with D.M. 1019 being the final tape registered - a total of 804 different tape reels.
An example from this series is:-
H-XK-V-240M05: The Supremes - "You Keep Me Hangin' On".
This is to be found on duplicate master 240. It was mixed in mono [[represented by the letter "M") and is the fifth track on this tape [[05). The track was produced by Brian Holland & Lamont Dozier [[H).
Another example is:-
F-I-I-505S02: Tammi Terrell - "Just Too Much To Hope For".
This track was mixed from the original session tape onto Duplicate Master 505, and was mixed in stereo, which is represented by the letter "S'', and this is the second track on this tape [[02). It was produced by Harvey Fuqua [[F).
Towards the end of this series it had become commonplace for promotional singles white label releases to feature the same song on both sides with the mono version on one side and the stereo version on the other. In some tracks cases consecutive were used as illustrated in the following example:-
M9-Ll-Ll-1013S02: David Ruffin - "Blood Donor's Needed"
[[Used on promotional copies of Motown 1223-A)
M9-Ll-Ll-1013M03: David Ruffin - "Blood Donor's Needed"
[[Used on the commercial release of Motown 1223-A)
There are a number of recordings that list a master number that includes the letter "S" for stereo, whilst they are in fact in mono. It should be noted that while these recordings were cut in mono the representation within the master number refers to the recording on the tape, and not the final cut, i.e. stereo mix/cut in mono.
Many of Motown's 1960's Detroit music producers are alive and well and living in America in 1993. Good health, and thanks guys!!!! "
Four Marvelettes Songs That...
Yesterday, 06:09 PM in Motown Forum