By nikki (24.46.200.124) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 08:13 pm:

Courtesy of Jim Ellis (Satintones lead) I am posting a picture from his personal collection. He (and I) would like help identifying the first two people in it (left to right) whom he thinks may have been a local dee jay and possibly a road manager, but he can't recall their names.



L to R: ?, ?, Tyron Carlo (spelling?), Berry Gordy, Jackie Wilson, Robert Bateman, and below them is Little Willie John.

Hope you like the foto! I believe he said it's from around 1959.

In harmony,

Nikki
http://www.harmonytrain.com

By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 08:15 pm:

NICE ONE "ANGEL"!!!...FROM WAAAAYYY BACK IN THE DAY!!!...STUBASS

By acooolcat (61.58.181.126) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 09:00 pm:

Hi Nikki - It's not DJ "Senator" Bryant with the glasses, is it?
Graham

By Skeptical (65.43.153.219) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 10:34 pm:

Doesn't look like Jackie Wilson or Little Willie John to me

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 10:41 pm:

Jackie Wilson is definitely in the picture.
I can't say about Little Willy John.

By David Y (152.163.188.68) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 11:13 pm:

I also have a copy of the very same photo, given to me by Singin' Sammy Ward, while helping a friend research a Jackie Wilson biography.

L to R (according to both Ward and Jackie's guitar player Billy Davis): Billy Johnson(musician), Al Abrams(Motown Promotion guy), J.J.(Jackie's buddy), Little Willie John (kneeling), Berry Gordy, Jackie Wilson and Robert Bateman.

I hope that helps!

By RD (63.188.33.76) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 11:46 pm:

Definitely Jackie Wilson, Berry Gordy and Robert Bateman but I don't think Al Abrams is in the pic. Abrams is White. I don't see anybody in the pic who looks white. The guy kneeling favors Little Willie John but I don't see Tyran Carlo a.k.a. Roquel Billy Davis.

By David Y (152.163.188.68) on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 11:57 pm:

if you would like i can e-mail you a clearer copy.

the second guy from the left is definitely white, and definitely Al Abrams according to 3 reliable sources (I also gave a copy to Mable John, little willie's sister). You don't see Roquel Billy Davis because he's not in the photo. I was referring to Billy Davis, the Midnighters' guitar player, and Jackie Wilson's life-long friend

By RD (63.188.33.76) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 12:07 am:

David Y the reference to Roquel was in response to Nikki's post that Tyran Carlo was in the picture. It doesn't look like Al because the second guy from the left seems to have an afro hair cut and is heavier than the Al I've seen in other pics. Al was thin when he was young. But I could be wrong.

By David Y (152.163.188.68) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 12:14 am:

You're exactly right, but you're looking at a terrible copy of the photo.

i would be more than happy to e-mail you a better copy

(i have been trying to post it, but i think i am having a mac compatibilty problem)

By RD (63.188.33.76) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 01:35 am:

David the pic you emailed is clearer and it looks more like Al, especially that left ear; but that hair cut is the type I use to get. Al looks like a black guy with that haircut.

By Uptight (24.55.6.144) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 01:44 am:

The guy second from the left, who was identified as Al Abrams looked caucasion to me, just with big hair. I wouldn't have thought it to be an afro.

By RD (63.188.33.76) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 02:01 am:

Well I would, Uptight. As I previously stated that use to be my fav style of haircut. The hair on the guy in the pick looks curly and tight, I've seen Al Abrams with stringier hair. If I didn't have any other depictions of Abrams to go by maybe I wouldn't see the picture the way I do--but I do. The pic that David sent is clearer and looks like the Al Abrams I remember (facially). Abrams was a promotion man who visited many black radio stations; he was well known to a lot of people, I saw him many times.

By Uptight (24.55.6.144) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 02:21 am:

Thanks RD and David.

By RD (63.188.33.76) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 02:21 am:

Sidebar: in the early days of Motown/Tamla, Berry started the label in 1959, a whole lot of people thought Al Abrams owned the company because he was the one you saw representing it. At most small black recording companies the owner did the promoting because they couldn't afford to hire anyone.

The early Hitsvilles' releases were hit and miss. For every hit or nice sounding record they'll have 8 or 9 so, so ones. Berry issued a lot of records, most of which, the jocks didn't like. Style wise they were all over the place: blues, R&B, novelty, soul, country. Both the Miracles and Melody labels started off with soul releases then switched to country. Around 1962 they became more consistent but Motown didn't achieved its patented sound until mid/late 1963.

By John Lester (217.40.203.223) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 02:46 am:

That picture is wonderful..........can we see the clearer picture here too. Others may be able to help with the identification?

By John Lester (217.40.203.223) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 03:33 am:

There's a picture of Al Abrams on page 25 of the Motown "coffee table" book....dressed up in a turban and shades!

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 07:04 am:

David Y

Please mail me the pic and I will gladly display it. david@soulfuldetroit.com

Nikki thanks so much for sharing.

David

By stephanie (66.54.1.38) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 08:11 am:

Where is Al Abrams now?
Stephanie

By Ron Murphy (68.42.89.162) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 11:46 am:

The last time I talked to Mr. Abrams he was working at the Toledo Blade newspaper in Toledo,Ohio That was about 12 years ago, he must be retired by now.

By Scratcher (65.133.219.186) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 11:48 am:

Thanks for the headsup, Ron. Mr. Abrams should have some interesting stories to tell since he was there virtually from the beginning.

By nikki (24.46.200.124) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 12:07 pm:

Thanx everyone for the help! I apologize for the picture not being of good quality! As I originally posted, the first two people on the foto Jim Ellis (and I) didn't know the names, the third (Carlo) was with a question mark, which we now see was not him ....and the rest he knew. He sent me some other early fotos too, some even worse quality than this one, and I'm trying to sort them out and get some of the names straight. If anyone is interested, I'll post them here (or on a new thread) later.

Nikki
http://www.harmonytrain.com

By Scratcher (65.133.219.186) on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 12:44 pm:

Post them here Nikki. That first one was great.

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 06:27 pm:

Nikki

We'd love to see your photos.

Thanks to David Y for sending his copy of the thread opener.

By nikki (24.46.200.124) on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 - 07:11 pm:

Thanx David Y and David M for posting clearer image! David M, I posted more photos under a new thread. I'm glad you are enjoying them.

Nikki