By In Hiding (209.87.128.124) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 05:58 pm:

I've tried to list the greatest r+b singers and
even with my most objective standards--intensity,tone, range, melisma(sic) etc. There were a great many more men on the list. Are men
more talented? Is this unsuitable work for women?
What's going on: I've got Aretha and Dionne for
women and Otis and Al Green for men. Clearly no
comparison. The men are way better...then there's
W. Picket, and Sam Cooke and...

By STUBASS (206.135.204.254) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 06:00 pm:

YOU'RE IN *BIG* TROUBLE "IN HIDING"!!!...

By caliluv (63.251.57.2) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 06:03 pm:

I Agree Stu

By Galactus (207.144.253.114) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 06:09 pm:

Yeah....I was going to tell him to "duck".....lol...

Well, I don't think one gender is better than the other. I think for me, what it is is this: I tend to relate to the male singers more often, being male myself; I can often identify with what they're singing about, and the songs become very personal to me.

On the other hand, when I do like a female singer, I really, really dig them. There are few singers I like more than Minnie Riperton for example......

But I really think it's a matter of who you can relate to.....

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 06:10 pm:

I also concur...In Hiding, you have started something...GET READY! :o)
What's Up STU!


Handsome

By STUBASS (206.135.204.254) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 06:36 pm:

BY THE WAY "IN HIDING"...IT MAY DEPEND ON WHO YOU WANT SINGING LOVE SONGS TO *YOU*!!!...HEY HANDSOME...IT'S ALL GOOD!!!...STUBASS

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 07:11 pm:

In Hiding best stay in hiding.

By Charmedes (142.165.10.160) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 07:33 pm:

I don't think there's any one more talented than Aretha in soul/r & b music. She expresses an amazing combination of energies; being able to sincerely express a woman's lovelorn pain and loss one moment, then taking control of the reins and pushing the fellows out of the driver's seat on songs like "Respect, When this battle is over, Rock-a-lot, etc. This unique creative canvas is underscored with her strong spirituality and deep capacity for love and life's experiences that seem to transcend that of many of her peers. All of these elements in combination with her talents as a musician are, I think, what make her great.

By Moanman (24.44.218.110) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 07:40 pm:

Are Men More Talented???? Seriously, is that really the question here? 2 Words: HELL NIZZY!

By Shauntrell (68.42.156.203) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 07:59 pm:

Men are definitely better rappers, but better singers? Are there any guys that can hang note for gut-wrenching note with Aretha, I doubt very seriously there are any...

By ~~medusa~~ (68.248.17.72) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 08:14 pm:

Depending on who the "MAN' and the "WOMAN" R, but it's still hard, they have different voice ranges. Certain voices need certain instruments, and certain voices don't.
I just feel if a vocalist can sing acapella, and sound good then he &/or she really got it goin' on and R very talented singers.
So, my point is Y choose roses over tulips, when they both R beautiful. No Compatition Necessary.
Compatition aint nothing, if U got a voice that's true~LOL~

By fayette (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 09:11 pm:

you guys i can see luther vandross holding
his own with aretha.

By fayette (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 09:13 pm:

i wonder if inhiding is medusa this sound
like one of her questions lol

By STUBASS (198.81.26.170) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 10:10 pm:

BUT REALLY!!!...MORE ON THE SERIOUS SIDE OF THIS QUESTION...PARTICULARLY AS RELATES TO 60'S AND 70'S SOUL MUSIC...REMEMBER ONE THING!!!...SINGLES WERE SOLD FOR 79 CENTS OVER THE COUNTER IN THE OLD DAYS...AND ALBUMS WERE UNDER 5 DOLLARS!!!...WHO BOUGHT THE RECORDS???...MORE GIRLS THAN BOYS...AS THE GIRLS SAT AROUND LISTENING TO RECORDS AFTER SCHOOL...WHILE US GUYS WERE PLAYING SPORTS AND ACTING LIKE FOOLS...THOSE GIRLS WERE PARTICULARLY BUYING LOVE SONGS AND THE LIKE!!!...WHO DID THOSE WOMEN WANT SINGING THOSE LOVE SONG TO THEM???...BY AND LARGE...MEN!!!...THAT IS A PRIMARY REASON THAT MALE ACTS...FOR THE MOST PART...COMMANDED MORE MONEY...AND WERE MORE IN DEMAND...THUS...MORE MALE SINGERS AND GROUPS ON THE SCENE!!!...SOMETHING TO CONSIDER!!!...STUBASS

By Firing Squad (64.236.243.31) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 10:52 pm:

For every woman singer that is great there is a man that is great..

so it's equal...

not one is better than the other...

By RD (65.150.229.43) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 10:59 pm:

Not in my neighborhood Stu. The guys were the ones buying the male group albums moreso than the females. We all wanted to be Temptations, Miracles, Intruders, Delfonics, etc. We went to their concerts then and we stil do now while most women aren't that interested in going to see oldie groups they prefer Luther Vandross, Patti Labelle, Peabo Bryson, etc.

Guys also bought more records than females. Most collectors are men; I've known some women collectors, but nowhere near as many as men. Of course, I'm talking strictly of soul, jazz and blues music.

By Sue (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:18 pm:

I agree RD ...

I was in my favorite used record store a few months ago, flipping through singles ...as I paid for my choices, the young woman cashier said "Wow it's great to see a 'girl' looking through the old records!"

Pretty funny!

When I was a kid, on average the boys bought more records. My friend Lynn used to say we should save our money and let the boys buy the music, we had enough to do to buy clothes and look good.

By ~~medusa~~ (68.248.35.76) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:32 pm:

Hey, sorry,It's not me~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fayette, Y would I Post a topic and hide behind it? but I must say, it's a good one...(smile).
P.S. Remeber ALL!
If U don't C my snakes B4 and behind my name like this "~~~medusa~~~" then it's not me. U C my snakes go where I go...hahahaha

By ~~medusa~~ (68.248.35.76) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:35 pm:

Firing Squad,
No one could've said it better...thanx!

By STUBASS (198.81.26.170) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:44 pm:

WELL GUYS!!!...I CAN ONLY SAY THAT I DISCUSSED THIS WITH SOME RECORD COMPANY PEOPLE YEARS BACK(NOT THAT THEY NECESSARILY KNOW ANYTHING)...AND AS RELATED TO CURRENT MUSIC (SOUL INCLUDED)AT THAT TIME...THE SINGLES MARKET WAS FEMALE DRIVEN (IN MY HOUSE...MY SISTER HAD THE RECORD COLLECTION)...FOR THE MOST PART (THERE ARE CERTINLY NO ABSOLUTES HERE)...SONGS WERE MORE OFTEN WRITTEN (IN"YOU KEEP ME HANGING ON" THE SUPREMES WERE SINGING FROM A WOMENS PERSPECTIVE...WHERE AS THE TEMPTATIONS..."MY BABY"...MADE THE GIRLS FEEL LIKE DAVID WAS SINGING TO THEM)WITH WOMEN IN MIND OR WHAT MIGHT APPEAL TO WOMEN RECORD BUYERS!!!...SORRY FOR THE HASTY GENERALIZATIONS...BUT...REMEMBER...WHO "SWOONED" TO SINGERS???...ANSWER...WOMEN!!!...AND THEY RAN DOWN TO THE RECORD STORE TO BUY THOSE RECORDS!!!...JUST A PERSPECTIVE!!!...NOTHING MORE...NOTHING LESS!!!...KEVGO...HELP ME HERE!!!...STUBASS
PS...YOU DON'T NEED TO POST A LIST OF SONGS THAT CONTRADICT MY THEORY!!!...THERE ARE MANY...BUT I THINK THERE ARE MANY MORE THAT WOULD SUBSTANTIATE WHAT I'M SAYING!!!...

By RD (65.150.229.43) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:46 pm:

I think it had a lot to do with the format. Women in general just weren't into vinyl records. They didn't like fooling with the adaptor that goes in that big hole. A scratched record droved 'em up the wall while men merely kicked something and made the needle jump to another groove. You sometimes had to scotch tape a penny or rubberband a butter knife to the arm to make the thing play right.

Albums took up too much space, and component sets, which men loved, didn't look as good as one of them Philco floor model combo record players/radios in the wood cabinets that men hated and women loved. So what if a good componet set sounded better. Some of those monsters even had a television tube. After a few years the only thing that worked was the radio.

On the other hand, women love CDs. Their smaller and you can play them in the car. And they like the cute CD players you can buy. Some you can hang on the wall. Don't like a track or tracks on a disk, then program it out or easily skip it--with a remote, women love remotes. And the cheapest CD player still produces a good sound.

You see more women in the Record (now CD Exchange)Exchange type shops then you ever did and they're buying old CDs.

By STUBASS (198.81.26.170) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:49 pm:

BY THE WAY!!!...COLLECTING OLD RECORDS!!!...YES...THAT DEFINITLY *IS* A GUY THING!!!...STU

By STUBASS (198.81.26.170) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 11:52 pm:

OK RD!!!...I'M SURE THAT SOME WOMEN DO IT TOO!!!...THIS GENDER CONFUSION IS TAXING TO THE MIND, MAN!!!...STUBASS

By Rhythm and Blues Showcase (65.229.41.222) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 01:12 am:

I don't see any male singer ever being better than Aretha. Not even Luther Vandross. You have Superior vocalists like Ali-Ollie Woodson,David Ruffin, Marvin Gaye, and then you have Gladys Knight. Since I consider Aretha to be the all-time greatest vocalist in American Popular Music History, and yes I rank her abvove even the great Frank Sinatra, I have to say that the women have it over the guys.

By PlatinumPal (141.151.56.20) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 02:29 am:

I'm a guy and in reality I believe that the sex of the singer does not make one more likely to be better than a singer of the other sex. But... then I listen to Tammi... and I have to wonder...?

By JoB (204.42.12.2) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 02:40 am:

...to answer Mr. (or Ms.) Hiding's question, I don't think that you can really say that either gender is necessarily "better" than the other...IMO, I believe that there are more (quantity-wise, and that's all) great male SOUL singers than female. Now that's just in terms of SOUL music, I know the question refers to R&B music, and in that category, I'd have to split it right down the middle...both have and are holding their own in R&B. But for some straight out SOUL music, most of the greats are male IMO. Partially I think because a lot of female singers (with the exception of your Arethas, Tinas, Gladyses, Chakas, etc) like to sound more feminine (i.e. Diana, Deniece, Whitney) and therefore don't go for the pour-out-my-heart, I'm-gonna-make-yall-FEEL-this-even-if-I-hit-an-off-note-I-can-still-make-it-work sound that is mostly associated with good soul music. With a few exceptions like Tammi Terrell, who didn't necessarily have that sound but I still consider her to be one of the great female soul singers.

By Nish (66.119.33.135) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 09:07 am:

All my favorite soul male vocalists are males, but, I don't think that has anything to do with men being better singers, because I haven't found a male singer yet to compare with Sarah Vaughan (another genre, I know, but still, she's a female voice supreme). And I certainly don't think it's uncontroverted fact that Al Green is better than Aretha Franklin. I'm sure (as we see on this thread) there are countless dissenters to that claim.

By john dixon (68.58.167.167) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 09:46 am:

Nish, I LOL'd at the first sentence of your post! I noticed on another thread when listing my favorite southern soul singers that they were all male. I should have included Mavis Staples and Irma Thomas. For some reason that I haven't figured out yet, it's different with Motown ; I enjoy Mary Wells, the Marvelettes, Kim Weston, Tammi Terrell, Brenda Holloway, Martha Reeves, etc. just as much as all the guys. Go figure...

By Nish (128.239.206.204) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 03:48 pm:

John - reading it now with some distance, it is a hilarious sentence. And not only that, when I listen to males and female singers, I think I unconsciously subject them to a different critique. I tend to prefer the girl singers who sing on the sweet side, like Barbara Lewis, Syreeta, Mary Wells, Brenda Payton, etc. while I tend to like the gruff tenors, who's female counterparts would probably be more the deep soul female singers like Candi Staton, Aretha Franklin, Linda Jones, etc. But then again, I like it all, and when the mood hits me, I may be playing Linda Jones one day and the Supremes the next. I cover the gamut of soul, as we all do.

By Livonia Ken (136.1.1.101) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 04:16 pm:

My grandparents are from Ireland, which may explain why I like to answer questions with questions. For instance, in the case of the question, "Are Men Better Singers than Women?", I feel genetically compelled to come back with "Is anyone a better singer than Aretha Franklin?"

Regards,
Ken

By R&B (138.238.41.128) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 04:33 pm:

HEY KEN,YOU SAID IT ALL RIGHT THERE.

By Moanman (24.44.218.110) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 04:54 pm:

First, I want to state firmly, I AM NOT A HATER. I've been an Aretha fan since the day my mama first brought home "I Ain't Never Loved a Man." But what is this mad homage to "The Greatest" singer Aretha really all about? I don't get it. Yes, no doubt, Aretha USED to be Great. But when was the last time any of you truly HEARD her (& I mean really listened)?

Let's be honest, folks. Just take a look at the posts that name Aretha's gems. Are there any from the last two decades??? Please don't say she's been quiet, cause the woman was still recording. Hell, there aren't but a measley handful from the 80s listed among the favorites mentioned here. Yes, her songbook is quite large & impressive as her breasts, but are WE the ones resting on 'Retha's laurels???

Did any of you see her performance on VH-1's Divas Live a couple of years back? That wasn't the Aretha we all knew & loved. Nothing, not no song echoed the same glory, power or the soulful register of yesteryear. Are we not hearing that? Maybe we are romanticizing The "Greatness" just a little bit here.

Maybe we can still HEAR that GREATNESS in our collective memory, & in those cherished recordings (mostly from her Atlantic years), but I ain't HEARING much of it these days.

Maybe years of smoking, perhaps an excessive lifestyle, age, etc, have wrecked what was once the gold in dem dare pipes. I do know singers of her generation, singers like the Gladys', the Patti's, etc., STILL SOUND WONDERFUL.

How many of you can honestly say you still get the chills listening to the Aretha of the last 10 years??? Then ask yourself: is that chill one that's rooted firmly in the present, or in precious memories of the past????

I realize this won't be a popular opinion, but dammit, it's an HONEST one!

Peace