By janebse (68.63.5.177) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 08:49 am:

Reading about all the various singers who have retired made me wonder about what they do about singing?

1. Do they sing in the church choir?

2. Do they sing in gigs around the town they retire in?

3. Do they just go completely away from music, saying, "I've been there, done that and now it's time to explore other interests"?

4. Do they sometimes just sit and sing for themselves?

By Kells (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 09:06 am:

They sing hooks on rap songs, and wear throwback jerseys if you can convince them!

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 09:16 am:

JANEBSE!!!...I WOULD THINK THAT TO A LARGE EXTENT...IT WOULD DEPEND ON JUST HOW SUCCESSFUL (COMMERCIALLY) THEY WERE...AND HOW WELL THEY INVESTED THEIR MONEY!!!...MANY SINGERS...HOWEVER...SINATRA...FOR EXAMPLE...CAN'T LEAVE THE LIMELIGHT BEHIND...AND SING UNTIL THEY LOSE THEIR VOICE OR HAVE DIFFICULTY REMEMBERING LYRICS!!!...I GUESS OLD SINGERS DON'T DIE...THEY JUST...FADE OUT!!!...STUBASS

By RD (65.150.229.138) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 10:08 am:

Most of the obscure soul singers we talked about on this forum didn't have any "music money" to invest and usually worked fulltime jobs to support themselves and their families when they were trying to upscale themselves via the recording industry, which for the majority didn't pan out. Why do you think Eddie Kendricks found a job at an airport in Birmingham? If every thing was hunky dory in the music industry you would have thought he could have made as much, if not more money, by performing 50 or so gigs a year (after all he did have one helluva track record). Why did he choose the airport gig? Former Dazz Band member Pierre DeMudd works at Cleveland Hopkins airport.

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 10:26 am:

WHY THE TRADITIONAL SERVICE JOBS RD???...I DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!...I ALSO HAD A FRIEND WHO PLAYED FOR SEVERAL YEARS IN THE NBA...MADE PRETTY DECENT MONEY...AND LAST WORD...THIS NEAR 7 FOOTER WORKING AS A HOTEL BELLMAN IN HOUSTON!!!...FOUR YEARS OF COLLEGE TOO!!!...AS YOU MENTIONED...CERTAINLY A PERFORMER LIKE EDDIE K COULD HAVE PUT SOME GIGS TOGETHER THAT WOULD HAVE PAID MUCH MORE THAN AIRPORT WORK!!!...WAS PERHAPS HIS VOICE SHOT DUE TO THE CANCER HE SUFFERED???...SOME OLD DETROIT SINGERS...INCLUDING THE CAPITALS AND THE DETROIT EMERALDS...BY THE WAY...OPENED UP THEIR OWN BARS!!!...STUBASS

By Soul Sister (65.43.148.15) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 10:36 am:

Stu;
Don't know about now but I talked with Don Storball of The Capitols a few years back, he was a police officer. He told me that the other two Capitols: one was dead and the other was missing, unknown whereabouts or presumed dead, no one knew about him.(?)
S.S.

By RD (65.150.229.138) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 10:51 am:

Stu, the airport job makes sense because Eddie got to fly places free or at very reduced rates. I hear when he returned to Birmingham he stayed with his mother in the house he bought for her during his good years. His voice was weakened but not shot, he took off once to tour with Dennis and David; I saw a performance and he was alright. After the tour with D&D he went back to the airport gig. I guess ex singers work the service gigs because they're easier to get and most aren't trained to do much else. And as James Brown said "If You Don't Work You Don't Eat." These scenarios destroy the myth that most former hit recording artists are laying back and living comfortably off royalties and investments.

By RD (65.150.229.138) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 10:54 am:

Stu, didn't the Tilmons (Detroit Emeralds) have that bar before they started making records?

By STUBASS (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 11:00 am:

SOUL SISTER!!!...THE DECEASED "CAPITAL" YOU REFER TO WAS LEAD SINGER SAM GEORGE!!!...HE WAS KILLED IN THE 80'S!!!...MET HIM ONCE IN THE 60'S...AND HE HAD THE LARGEST DIAMOND CLUSTER ON HIS RING THAT I'D EVER SEEN (ALTHOUGH I DON'T KNOW THE QUALITY)!!!...MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THAT THEY TOOK THEIR "COOL JERK" MONEY AND BOUGHT SOME SORT OF BAR!!!...RD!!!...I KNOW THE EMERALDS OWNED A BAR...HOWEVER...WHEN I WORKED WITH THEM IN THE LATE 60'S...I WAS NOT AWARE OF ANY BAR THEY OWNED AT THAT TIME!!!...STUBASS

By RD (65.150.229.138) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 11:03 am:

Ok Stu.

Thanks for the update of the Capitals SoulSister.

By Soul Sister (65.43.148.15) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 12:30 pm:

Stu:
Yea, I'm Hip. Gotta go out now the man is waiting but losing patience> (chuckle).
S.S.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 01:51 pm:

RD - The Tilmons were into gospel before they became the Detroit Emeralds. The "Emeralds Lounge" was established after the Tilmon's became known as the Detroit Emeralds.

By SisOldDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 01:56 pm:

BTW: The gospel group by the name of "The Legionaires" became the soul group "New Birth."

By RD (65.150.229.138) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 01:58 pm:

Ok Sis, I had agreed to what Stu said in a later post. Didn't the Fantastic Four play there a lot or was it another place whose name escapes me now? Not the Twenty Grand...maybe...Chappies?

By STUBASS (206.135.204.254) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 02:09 pm:

RD!!!...THE FANTASTIC FOUR(SWEET JAMES) AND THE EMERALDS WERE COUSINS!!!...I PLAYED A FEW SHOWS WITH BOTH GROUPS!!!...ANOTHER COUSIN WAS ONE OF OUR MANAGERS...JAMES CLARK!!!...STUBASS

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 02:11 pm:

RD - The Fantastic Four played Chappies, and on occasions the Emerald's Lounge. The Detroit Emeralds, and other recording artist appeared at the Emerald's Lounge as well.

Most of the clubs in Detroit were quite small. Phelps was a nice size. The way Baker's Keyboard is set up makes it smaller than should be. If they were to remodel, I believe it would appear to be larger, and would accommodate more guest.

By RD (65.150.229.138) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 02:53 pm:

I liked both groups but never understood why they didn't travel to surrounding cities more than they did. Both had nice followings in Cleveland but only came here occasionally. I guess the lack of clubs was the main culprit along with available dates and price. I believe the less than super or major star artists appeared in smaller towns like Akron, Canton and Dayton moreso than larger cities. The Originals, for instance, never appeared in Cleveland...ever. They were scheduled to do a show here once for somebody but something happened.

By SisOldDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 03:24 pm:

RD - That is exactly right. There were so many groups when the FF were out there. During that time, Motown, Chicago, and Philly just had the control of the public. I loved the Originals. I just wish they had recorded more, and better publicized.

By RD (65.150.229.138) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 03:30 pm:

Sis, actually the Originals recorded quite a few albums. I have nearly all of them with my fav being Naturally Together. When they had their hits Motown was moving or had moved to Los Angeles and they (the Originals) went out that way too. So they were no longer 150 miles or so away. Still, you would have thought some promoter would have included them in a package show or something. I wonder if they played the little clubs in the area of California they lived?

By SisOldDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 03:32 pm:

RD - I only have two LP's by the Originals.

By janebse (68.63.5.177) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 06:13 pm:

About Eddie and his airport job. Exactly what did he do at the airport? I have a horrible fear that someone will say he was an aircap.

In an interview he mentioned doing mostly "benefits" in the '80s except for the Temptations Reunion Tour, the "Dancin' in the Street" and someone mentioned that he and David hooked up for a tour after "Dancin' in the Street." The person who said that made it sound like the David and Eddie tour was a huge success, but I never heard that anywhere else. Then after the Hall of Fame induction, David, Eddie and Dennis got together and toured.

By STUBASS (206.135.204.254) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 06:52 pm:

EDDIE AND DAVID ALSO TEAMED UP WITH HALL & OATS FOR A VIDEO AND SOME APPEARANCES!!!...STU

By janebse (68.63.5.177) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 08:30 am:

Oops! I knew they had done an appearance with Hall & Oates, and Eddie even credited them with reviving their careers, but I simply forgot to mention it.

Still, does anyone know what kind of "aiport job" Eddie had?

On TV last night I watched a few minutes of a show on the wealth and Life Style of current pop stars. And all I could think of was how fleeting that wealth and life style can be. One year you're at the top of the charts, the next you're playing a gig at a run-down bar.

By RD (65.150.228.137) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 08:51 am:

Janesbse, it's pretty common knowledge that Eddie Kendricks returned home to Birmingham and worked at the airport there around any gigs that came up. This fact appeared in print in many black publications. This started around 1985. I don't know what his exact job title was but I believe he was more like a concierge/customer service type. Most recording artists except the diehards worked 9 to 5 jobs, something many don't like the public to know because they feel it diminishes their image as a star. Facts are hit and miss and one hit artists have to work 9 to 5 to survive because they usually get zero from recording companies and can't get enough live gigs to support their families.

By stephanie (68.50.216.139) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 10:34 am:

I feel that there is no shame in working even if you are a fallen star, Im glad Eddie did something some of these people think they are too good to work a 9-5 and fall into drink and drugs because of the depression. I wish that Motown had taught some of them how to save the money that they made (the money they were allowed) and some of them could have been sitting pretty today. I have heard that Martha Reeves was frugal and didnt spend everything.

If the record companies had taught business and money management (which they didnt want the artists to know anyway) a lot of them would have been well off and could have spawned into other successful careers. Look at Jerry Butler he is now a politician and other artists..Arnold Schwarznegger is smart he knows his movie days wont last forever and that is why he is doing something different even the late Sonny Bono who had tons of money from songwriting royalties did something different. I bet now that Dennis Edwards is getting gigs I hope he is saving his money because he cant keep doing this forever and he still has plenty of time to save some money because he can still move and he has a great voice. Gladys Knight admitted to gambling and lost a lot of money but now she is making 300,000 a week in Vegas she has a loyal fan base and can go on another 10 years if she wants to and she is doing her thing as a judge on American Jr Idol..its good to see some of our folks still working though. I have always wondered about people like Chuck Jackson and Maxine Brown and some of the lesser known artists and wondered what they did with their money or if they are still working a little or consistently. Johnny Taylor still did 200 dates a year before his untimely death..
Stephanie

By Eli (65.43.148.15) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 12:01 pm:

Some become pimps.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 12:13 pm:

Hey Folks:
Chuck Jackson & Maxine Brown still perform and tour occaisionally. They were both in NYC a few months ago for a gig in Harlem and they sounded fantastic.

As for artists who took on "day jobs" to survive - Freddie Gorman of the Originals worked for his local post office (and he co-wrote "Please Mr. Postman" - talk about life imitating art!). Earl "Speedo" Carroll of the Cadillacs worked as a janitor in a NYC public school. Before he became a Cook County Commissioner, Jerry Butler had his own beverage distribution company. Arlene Smith of the Chantels is a music teacher in the NYC public school system. My friend Tony Drake worked in the NYC garment district after his runs with Musicor & Brunswick ended. To bring the point closer to SD - our dear Jack Ashford worked for a Memphis security company & Joe Hunter taught music in Detroit. Yet, these are just a lucky FEW who were able to find work after their hit streak ended.

We can blame the record companies until the cows come home for not teaching these artists any business skills but let's face it - an artist has to be taught good spending and saving skills when they are young and it's up to the parents/guardians or some elder to instill these skills. If I heeded my parents & church elders' advice (when I was a teen) about saving money early, I probably would not be going out of pocket now in funding my record label/production company.

Let's hope that today's artists and producers learn someday to put the "bling-bling" on hold and save their money so that they would not have to struggle in the future.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By LTLFTC (12.210.76.205) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 12:54 pm:

99% probably beg their old employers to take them back.

Steve K

By JoB (204.42.12.2) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 03:40 am:

I saw someone mention earlier about retired acts singing hooks on rap songs---I think I know who that is referring to, but another one (who I know I can't really call retired, because I saw one of his shows recently and this brotha might I add is still going STRONG), Charlie Wilson of the Gap Band, I have heard singing hooks on more than one rap song...and let me just say that his singing parts were (in 2 cases, anyway) the only part of the songs that I actually liked...he made them better :o)

By janebse (68.63.5.177) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 11:11 am:

Kev,
Your discussion of being wise with money applies to all of us. You know that old Pennsylvania Dutch saying, "Too soon old, too late smart." It's just more dramatic when one is up making millions, then down to zilch. I have a nephew who lived in Seattle when the economy went down, and the computer industry took a big hit. He lost his job, but he said he wasn't as bad off as the guys making millions a year one day, and nothing the next.

I know it can really be hard psychologically, and that presents even more problems. Do you accept a job for peanuts,or does it ruin your marketing power? And that's true no matter in what field you are.

By janebse (68.63.5.177) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 11:24 am:

The truth is you better prepare. No one owes you anything. Someone talked of no one giving the music artists any other skills. But no one gives anyone "other" skills. People have to go out and get them. What about athletes? They are probably more akin to entertainers in the short period of earning big bucks. No matter what you do, change happens. You've got to be prepared.

Someone was talking of Jerry Butler. Just looking at him suggests he's the kind of person who would prepare himself. Some entertainers have "charm," "charisma," and during their early lives this quality has gotten them pretty much what they want. But there comes a day when charm won't work. And I think this is why so many entertainers don't learn how to prepare themselves for a long career. I mean things like pleasing an audience, taking care of the voice, watching the weight, physically taking care of the body for a long career.

When Michael Jordan first went to the NBA, he looked at all of the guys who had lasted, and he began to prepare his body for the long haul. And I think if they want a long career, they need to analyze the whole situation and then prepare themselves.

Hey, Kev, maybe that's a field for you. "How to have a long career>"

By Rhythm and Blues Showcase (68.134.97.152) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 11:33 am:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Recording Artist at any level taking a 9 to 5 job. The hit records will not last forever and the bills keep on coming. Eddie Kendricks was smart to work for the airlines he could fly to his gigs for free. When you're on stage you're a superstar when you're off stage you're a regular person. Even Michael Jackson, Prince and members of current groups like NSync have businesses. Whether you're working for your self or someone else it's still a J.O.B.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 02:17 pm:

R&B Showcase:
I agree 100%. And it's not just the recording artists, too. I've known record label employees and executives who have taken part time gigs in record retail to make ends meet (a few of these folks I hired when I was in record retail management). Last year, a friend of mine from MTV came back to work at the record store because the bills were piling up and he needed the extra bread so that he wouldn't be broke at the end of the week.

That's why I do have to give Sean "Puffy" Combs credit - he invested his earnings into restaurants and clothing. To be successful in those areas as well as music AND have the ability to buy out Arista's share of Bad Boy Records & move the company (masters and all) to Universal Music Group - I gotta tip my hat to him.

Janebse:
Thanks. That's one issue I'm still working on.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By janebse (68.63.5.177) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 02:38 pm:

A great many artists have full-time jobs. Charles Dickens was the first writer to make a living from writing. Mark Twain was our first writer to do so. Charles Ives, great American composer, was a very successful insurance man. Success which enabled him to pursue composing music in his own way. He was way ahead of his time.

I think the huge amounts of money some pop stars/athletes make today has changed their outlook. They think the hits will always be thre. They don't realize that even if they perform or create at the same top level, the public is very fickle.

I agree Eddie was smart to work for the airlines. And I know he continued to perform.

By R&B (138.238.41.128) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 02:59 pm:

SOME RETIRED SINGERS LAND ON THEIR FEET,I MET A GUY NAMED TONY BASS MCREA WHO HAD SUNG IN THE UNIFICS FOR A MINUTE,I ALSO HAD A RESIDENT MANAGER ONCE WHO HAD SUNG WITH EDDIE DAY AND THE FOUR BARS,AND BOTH OF THESE MEN SEEMED CONTENT WITH THEIR LIVES AFTER SHOWBIZ.

By RD (65.150.228.81) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 03:40 pm:

I don't think anybody here has a problem with Eddie Kendricks working at an airport. I think some here was surprised that this celebrated singer had to resort to a nine to five job to make ends meet.

If the recording industry was ran right, honestly and with ethics Eddie Kendricks wouldn't had to take a 9 to 5 job anywhere. He should own the masters to the solo recordings he made and co-own with the appropriate Temptations' masters he was on. He should be getting licensing money from these masters as well as royalties from the constant reissues of his solo product and the Temptations product. Even if he doesn't own the masters the royalty income should have been enough to keep him from taking a 9 to 5 airport job but obviously it wasn't.

Other than clothes, what did he lavish his money on? I never seen a pictorial in Ebony about any fabulous house or expensive cars parked in his driveway. I guess the HaLL & Oates tour and the Dennis, David and Eddie tour didn't generate any significant money.

The Eddie Kendricks case is typical and the recording industry should be ashame of itself.