By WaltB (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 05:53 pm:

I hated the song "Shake You Down" by Gregory Abbott so much that it inpired this thread.

By Eli (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 06:21 pm:

A Long walk...Jill Scott (over rated artist, IMO)
Love...Musiq Soulchild( over rated artist, IMO)
Macarena..Los Rios??
You got what I need..Biz Markie
Am I Black Enough For You..Billy Paul
Disco Duck..Rick Dees

By Des (81.152.235.236) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 07:02 pm:

Anything with Bobby Eli on it (over rated artist,IMO)......HA HA.
That's cause I'm slightly pissed at your comments,particularly,on Jill Scott.
I'd a thought you'd like her writing and instrumentation - especially the first album from which A Long Walk comes......
I've said before,I don't read as much as I used to and we don't have that much UK TV to show a lot of Black music artists like her,so there isn't a broad feeling here in UK (as far as I know) that she's anything other than a good songwriter,with pedigree from songs covered by other artists,plus the coupla solo albums and her work with the much vaunted The Roots......pray tell,Eli - what's the beef?

By STUBASS (206.135.204.254) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 07:22 pm:

ANYTHING BY GRACE JONES!!!...STU(YOU KNOW WHO)BASS

By PhillyGroove (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 07:51 pm:

Sorry, Mr. Eli,

Jill Scott? I think she's reintroduced a sound of refined soul to Philly. To me, she sings from the heart ... and I thought the Long Walk" video had some tenderness, a quality often lacking in the hiphop that's so prolific.

PG

By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 07:53 pm:

Of course... I'll take the stage and bow again to advocate my sincere dislike to the 'distateful' machismo number "Having My Baby", and that was Paul Anka.

I bet Anka most likely would think that was his finest moment in having recorded that 'suggestive' piece of garbage, 28 years ago... but it's like, man, I still really HATE that song, can 'ya dig it?

By STUBASS (206.135.204.254) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 08:00 pm:

BUT JIM!!!... COULD YOU THINK OF A MORE LOVELY WAY TO SAY "I LOVE YOU"???...STU(WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM A GUY WHO'S ONLY 5'2"TALL)BASS

By medusa (66.73.11.133) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 08:15 pm:

Anita Wards' "Ring My Bell"
Back Down Memory Lane~Minnie Ripperton
The Way the Young Lady sung "You Really Got A Hold On Me' in the movie Standing In The Shadows Of Motown

By Jim Feliciano in Detroit. (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 10:04 pm:

Yea but Stu,
In the 'heat' of the moment that's always said and done.

But do you really think that she would be sayin' that to him, specifically... soon after findin' out the little 'weasel' just wanted his way, and of her knowing he "boinked" her for good?

By STUBASS (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 10:48 pm:

AND WOULDN'T IT BE FUNNY JIM...IF THE KID ENDS UP LOOKING LIKE THE MILKMAN???...STU(TWIN PINES)BASS

By Mark Speck (198.211.138.52) on Sunday, August 03, 2003 - 10:54 pm:

"Broken Wings"--Mr. Mister ('80s pop crap at its most synthetic)
"Into the Night"--Benny Mardones
and you don't want to get me started on current stuff like Creed!

Best,

Mark

By Rhythm and Blues Showcase (65.229.41.197) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 01:20 am:

"Am I Black Enough For You' by Billy Paul, I don't no Eli, I kind of like that one. It has an uplifting driving sound to it.

But I will co-sign you on Jill Scott, I too think she's overated, and I'm not a big Erica Badu fan. They may be talented ladies but their music just doesn't appeal to me.

By JoB (204.42.12.2) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 03:19 am:

...wow...you guys are shootin' down some songs I kind of like..."A Long Walk"???..."Back Down Memeory Lane"???..."Shake You Down"???..."Disco Duck"????...OK, I'm just kidding about "Disco Duck", it doesn't exactly hit my Top Ten List either, but then again I guess I would have to had been around in that time period to fully appreciate disco ;O)

I must agree with Bobby Eli though, about Musiq Soulchild (now he simply goes by "Musiq")...I think he is terribly overrated, he is waaaay to plain sounding. I once tried to listen to his whole CD (the newest one)....it was so monotone, so boring...it sounded like he sang every song using the same 3 notes...he's sure got that "I'm so musically talented and me and my band are about to LAY IT DOOOWN" LOOK goin' on, though.

To add to the list, though, I'd have to say that I don't care too much for most music by Loose Ends, and I can't stand Santana's "Black Magic Woman"...

By drums (155.91.6.71) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 08:01 am:

Man

You guys are rough on my little bro Musiq!!! I am really disappointed that people think that about a person that is so passionate about trying to do music in the manner that is supposed to uplift and promote positivity!!!

Here is a guy that has NEVER put out a song that has hoochie girls, drugs, guns, negativity or anything like that and what do you guys do? (And you know who you are) You rip him a new one. Everybody has an opinion and you are entitled to it. But the Musiq & Jill Scott bashing is unwarranted. If you all can name any other current artists who are trying to do what they are doing, I am all ears.

Daren Metz

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 11:02 am:

Hi Everyone!

I like Jill Scott & Musiq....that I'd say that and get on with my choices. ha ha!

WaltB:I didn't like shake you down either by Gregory Abbott (i believe he was Freda Payne's ex-husband)

Here's other songs I didn't like:

Knock On Wood-Ami Stewart
I Love the Night Life-Alicia Bridges
Let's make a baby-Billy Paul
Muscles-Diana Ross
Shake Your Groove Thang-Peaches & Herb
Love Ballad-George Benson

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 11:17 am:

Handsome:
What! You didn't like "Shake Your Groove Thang"!
Just having fun...but my vote for the number one song I just cannot stand, it would go to Shelly Fabraes' "Johnny Angel." It's the one song that I would never play on any oldies show I did when I was in radio.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

(PS - I like some of Jill Scott's songs & Musiq is all right but they are just too tame for me. I dig Erykah Badu's "Tyrone".)

By motownboy (67.124.68.243) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 04:47 pm:

The worst of the worst:

Mungo Jerry - "In The Summertime"
R. Dean Taylor - "There's A Ghost In My House"
Morris Albert - "Feelings" (AAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGHH!)
Paper Lace - "The Night Chicago Died"
Eminem - Anything by Eminem

By JSG (66.12.113.242) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 06:23 pm:

Hotel Califronia makes me want to smash the radio everytime I hear it.

By JoB (204.42.12.2) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 01:40 am:

Drums...yes I know who I am, and no, Musiq does not have hoochies in his videos and yes it does have a positive message, but does that mean that he makes great music (in my ears) just because of the message? If that were all it took to be a great artist, then hell I think I'll go and me a contract tomorrow!!! I do not have to (and don't) think his music is all that, and I am not wrong for feeling that way either. It is MY OPINION, which I have a right to, if his music does not move me, I will state MY OPINION on this forum. I did not say that NO ONE ELSE should like his music, just that I don't. I didn't say that he was a bad person, just that I feel he is overrated.
I happen to love Anita Baker's music, but there are several on this forum who don't, and have stated so, but I do not tell them that they are wrong for doing so. It's simply their opinion, and therefore I must accept that. We are all different and hear different things when listening to certain musicians, but as I stated before, THAT'S WHAT MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND...

By jan (80.50.229.99) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 07:26 am:

motownboy ! there's a ghost in my house is a banging tune - i even like the cover version by 'the fall', they don't write 'em like that any more, no sir

of a soul ilk i don't much like 'rockin roll baby' by stylistics, but it's STILL better than most of todays billboard 100

By The Cool Jerk (151.203.15.163) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 09:36 am:

Brother Louie
The Stories 1974

By drums (155.91.6.71) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 11:18 am:

Hello JoB,

As stated earlier in my thread, all that I see in many of the threads here is that people dont like the new artists that are coming out for blah, blah reason. This whole thread is stupid because as you have said, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.

But I take the Musiq bashing personally because I know him personally. If you like him fine, if you dont like him fine. I am sure that he (and the people who helped produce his 2 platinum albums) are laughing all the way to the bank.

But MY opinion is that Musiq, Jill, The Roots, Floetry, The Soulquarians, Axis Entertainment,Kindred and many others are coming up and they are kicking major ass. They not only have positivity but they are humble and they dont put anybody down. Not like I have seen in this thread.


That is my opinion

D

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 03:42 pm:

Drums, do me a favor and mention to Musiq, I enjoy his rendition of Stevie Wonder's "Visions" on the Conception cd.

Thanks,

Handsome

By Eli (64.12.97.7) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 05:15 pm:

My comment on August 3rd at 6:21 pm was
MY opinion and we are all allowed to voice our individual opinions as we feel and not according to other folks thoughts and feelings.

IMO, most of the so called "neo soul" stuff is just a passing phase, especially the stuff out of Philly.
Once again, it is just MY opinion and you dont have to agree.

If I think Jill is overrated, so be it.If I think Musiq is over rated, so be it.
Its just MY opinion.

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 05:22 pm:

I think that we need to differentiate between songs that you NEVER could stand from the very first listening vs songs that have been overplayed and can no longer bear to listen to them.

For example, I used to like "Crocodile Rock" by Elton John. I liked it so much that I bought the single. Now, after the 967th listening of the song, I can no longer stand it.

By stephanie (64.63.221.130) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 05:52 pm:

Motown boy
I like The Night Chicago Died I thought it was one of the better one hit wonders...
I HATE Ive Never Been to Me by Charlene and I cant stand the Electric Slide I dont know why everyone likes that song,,,"Its Electric boogie woogie that song is horrible...I think the one I cringe at the most and they were both hits is
Double Dutch Bus and Run Joey Run by David Geddes.....AGGGGGGHH that is the worst record I have ever heard in my life and they play him singing it on VH-1 sometimes when they do one hit wonder shows.
Stephanie
PS A (daddy was a cop_STUBASSangel

By Lurker (66.12.113.242) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 05:58 pm:

Double Dutch Bus was the shiznit

By drums (216.178.85.78) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 05:58 pm:

Hi Handsome,

You got it! I will tell him when he gets back from Europe!


It is funny that this thread came up, because this weekend I went to a community barbeque here in Philly and one of the groups that performed was Harold Melvin's Blue Notes. I am sitting behind the stage and I am amazed because here is a group who's songs I have in my music collection, and enjoy very much, but the young people were saying what is being said about Musiq & Jill.

I felt kind of bad for them because they were trying to please the crowd of people, but they got a half hearted response. It was like the Eddie Murphy movie "Coming to America" when he was up there screaming "Sexual Chocolate!!!" and dropped the mike and made a beeline off the stage.

It is really sad that this thread was started in the first place. As I have said, it is your opinion, but opinions can hurt, whether you are from the "old skool" or if you are a "New Jack." I am sure that if you wrote some music to the best of your ability and people tore you down you would be upset too.

I will never understand music people I guess....

D

By RD (65.150.229.185) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 06:02 pm:

I never cared for "Tiger" by Fabian at all. Ed Byrnes' "Kookie, Kookie Lend Me Your Comb" use to irritate me too.

By Des (217.42.9.44) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 06:05 pm:

Eli/
Because you're an acknowledged fine musician who partook in originating 'the Philly Sound' in the 70's,I think some (including myself) would expect a more 'half-full' than 'half-empty' attitude to music that attempts to operate in the same neck of the woods as what many would term 'real music'.
Your opinions are,of course,YOUR opinions but I think you could elaborate due to some/all of us being prepared to listen to EXACTLY why you feel fairly negative towards the type of 'nu or neo-soul artists',then maybe it would be good to do so.
And,as with any exchange of views,attitudes and impressions gained may be altered positively.....or,of course,negatives reinforced.
You may have read some of my posts in the last few weeks/month and I recently said there's no way there's 'nothing good today' -- I'm fairly sure you disagree.
However,is there anything/anybody you've liked as a new artist in the last five/ten years?(apologies if you've covered this ground prior to July this year)

By Linda Di. (66.67.194.109) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 06:46 pm:

IMO, Jill Scott was overplayed to death. And Musiq?? I have tried ... oh how I've tried. But I'm just not feelin' him. BUT I am not bashing either of them. They're probably very nice positive people. For me? I LOVE Patti LaBelle's voice. She can't scream long enough or loud enough for me. It's the ultimate high for me. But I have plenty of friends who just don't like her style. And that's okay.

That's why we have coffee and tea. Something for everyone! Not liking a person's style or talent does not mean the same as hating 'em.

By Des (217.42.9.44) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 07:00 pm:

Linda / I live in UK ----- Oh what I'd give for Jill Scott to be 'overplayed to death' here.
As I said in my first post here Aug 03 - UK doesn't have anywhere in the media where a Jill-S could be 'overplayed'.
In light of this Thread,I played her first album again today - what's not to like? Especially,and this is MY gripe with some here on this Forum,when there are clearly some ace cuts ('Gettin' In The Way') that are so damned good,I just can't see how anyone who likes the music of 70's Philly/Motown of Stevie/Marvin/Smokey could be anything other than as thrilled as I am --- I know,I know - 'tea and coffee' 'horses for courses'.....Just be positive,that's kinda all I ask.....this is good music and deserves more than to be dismissed as 'a phase' -- and even if it is , it's a good phase.
Des

By Fury13 (209.69.165.10) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 07:06 pm:

I see that we're back to "Errgh."

"My Way" - Frank Sinatra (the ultimate ego song)
"Against The Wind" - Bob Seger (another ego song)
"Having My Baby" - Paul Anka (like anyone cares)
"Shannon" - Henry Gross (wasn't this about a dog?)
"Fat Bottomed Girls" - Queen (questionable subject, treated more humorously and with a better beat in "Baby Got Back" by Sir Mix-A-Lot)


I agree that "Run Joey Run" and "The Night Chicago Died" were horrible.

But the most irritating of all had to be "Billy Don't Be A Hero" by Bo Donaldson and the Heywoods.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 07:09 pm:

Fury 13:
Try listening to the ORIGINAL "Billy Don't Be A Hero" that was recorded by Paper Lace (Bo Donaldson covered it). The Paper Lace version actually has a woman singing the chorus and the male lead singing the verses. Talk about a soap opera...
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Fury13 (209.69.165.10) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 07:12 pm:

More Errgh:

"Indiana Wants Me" by R. Dean Taylor
"Arizona" by Mark Lindsay
"Ring My Bell" by Anita Ward
"MacArthur Park" by Donna Summer
"Last Dance" by Donna Summer
"Which Way You Goin' Billy" by the Poppy Family

By Fury13 (12.2.196.17) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 07:13 pm:

Kev:

Aww, do I HAVE to?

By Eli (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 07:32 pm:

I am not "bashing" anyone.
All I said is that in MY opinion these people are over rated and we ALL have the right to our opinions.
I am not asking anyone to agree with me.

We all have our personal tastes, for various reasons and this music is not for me.
I dont care if they are from Philly or East Jablip.

I would NEVER take it personal if some did not like what I like or what I wrote. NEVER!!

By Linda Di. (66.67.194.109) on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 11:38 pm:

Des -- It's not being negative. The thread is about music we don't like. I don't care for Jill Scott's or Musiq's music. Period. It's a fact. It doesn't mean they aren't good. Obviously millions of folk like 'em because they sure sell CDs!

I enjoy reading threads like these and seeing all the differences in musical tastes. I truly don't believe this is a negative.

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 01:13 am:

Kev - you are amazing! Paper Lace appeared on a talent programme over here in the early seventies called 'Opportunity Knocks' (from memory). Their chart success was connected to that programme. This song filled the dance floor, yes, the same dance floor that introduced to me to songs like 'The girls are out to get you' and ' At the top of the stairs'.

By JoB (204.42.12.2) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 02:37 am:

...OK...this is my last comment on the matter, I definitely did not mean for anything to get started...What I said earlier, about Musiq being overrated and not really liking his music all that much...I meant it, and I am not going to apologize for stating my opinion. Drums, I understand that you may know him personally, and that is just fine, but why are you sitting here trying to control what can and cannot be said about a certain artist on this forum just because he happens to be a friend of yours??? When he entered the music business, he put himself out there to be subjected to all sorts of opinions from all sorts of sources (tv shows, magazines, newspapers, internet forums :o)...and therefore he (nor his friends) should not expect to ALL good comments about his music. It is part of being an artist, so if you are going to jump at me and others who have expressed their opinions concerning his music (none of us that I know of whose opinions reaches a large media audience), you should be writing letters to magazines and papers and chasing down newsstation vans...because believe me I have heard some not so great comments about his music from these sources as well.
I do not want to come off as crude, it's just that I have a problem with people trying to tell me what my opinion SHOULD BE, just because they disagree. I agree with you 100% when you say that he is young musician with a POSITIVE message, and I give him much respect for that, that is something that is overwhelmingly missing in most of the music of today. If someone asked me to chose an artist to be taken off the radio completely, Musiq would not be found anywhere on my list, but rather an artist with a not so "something I would want my kids listening to" vibe, like 50 cent or somebody. As a matter of fact, I happen to like Musiq's "Don't Change", I think it has a wonderful message.

But my original post was in response to WHAT I THINK OF HIM MUSICALLY, and again I will say that he really does not move me with his music. He sounds monotone and boring to me, and he will probably never be on my list of the Greatest Soul Singers. And this isn't even about the whole "the music of today can't hold a candle to the oldies" thing...that is a totally different thread altogether and believe me I'm trying to stick to the subject at hand. I realize that you may be his friend, trying to defend him, and that may be a harsh thing to hear (or read, I guess), but it is my opinion, and apparently I am not the only one who feels this way.

By drums (155.91.6.71) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 08:10 am:

Hi JoB,

I have to apologize too. I do NOT want anybody to think that I am trying to control them. This is a misunderstanding between us that I want to clear up. As stated, you and all here have the right to not like anything.

I and the rest of us people here in the Philly music community LOVES music in all shapes and forms. And all we are trying to do is uphold the tradition of Motown, Stax, Philly Intl., Aretha, Gladys,Bobby Eli, and all of the people that are on this board that have done positive and uplifting things with music. Granted, we'll have some "clunkers" in there. But we are trying.

I also know that James Poyser, who is a real musical genious, really is behind the "Neo Soul" movement here in Philly. If it werent for him, D'Angelo, Erykha Badu, The Roots and many others would not have that sound.

Anyway, continue on with the thread....

D

By B. Foster (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 09:50 am:

Yesterday, Fury13 mentioned Errggh, and it occurred to me that some of you may be relatively new to the forum, and not familiar with that thread. Errggh was a place where forum members could "wake up and smell the music". Many of the tunes and artists mentioned here were previously discussed on Errggh in a thoughtful, erudite, insightful manner...sort of. Musical, cultural and even scientific aspects into the music were provided by a well-informed group of posters�sort of. As Winston Churchill once might have said, "those who ignore history are doomed to take shop class or advanced health", so as a service to the forum, I have provided links to the original Errggh threads. Those of you with way too much time on your hands and a HAZMAT suit might find them interesting.

The thread began innocently enough with a discussion much like the one on this thread, initiated by R&B. Things went smoothly for a while, and then things went wrong. Really, really wrong! Like Freddy Kruger or Jason, the damn thing just wouldn't die. Anyhow, ignore or enjoy, as you see fit, but don't forget the air freshener!


ERRRGGGHH.......TURN THAT OFF!!!!
http://soulfuldetroit.com/forum/messages/2198/1824.html?

EERRRGG.....TURN THAT OFF 2
http://soulfuldetroit.com/forum/messages/2198/1856.html?

EERRGGH..TURN THAT OFF!....3
http://soulfuldetroit.com/forum/messages/2198/1869.html?

ERRGGH to the rescue!
http://soulfuldetroit.com/forum/messages/3838/2990.html?

Errggh - now more than ever!
http://soulfuldetroit.com/forum/messages/3838/3693.html?

Attention errggh scholars!
4506.html?

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 11:36 am:

Carl Dixon:
I played the Paper Lace's "Billy Don't Be A Hero" when I hosted an oldies show during my college years - it was released on Mercury Records. Bo Donaldson & the Heywoods copped their version note by note.

Drums:
Hey, I can understand you supporting your fellow Philadelphians but I do have one issue with Musiq.

When he appeared with the Funk Brothers at the Apollo Theatre for the premiere of "Standing In The Shadows Of Motown" this guy didn't memorize the lyrics to one of Motown's easiest songs - "Shotgun". That's right, Jr. Walker's "Shotgun." It was so bad what saved the performance was saxaphonist Tom Scott taking center stage and playing like there was no tomorrow. Also, Musiq could've taken a lesson from Motown's Artist Development area as far as proper dress because this boy's baggy blue jeans kept falling from his waist. The audience saw more of his drawers than heard him sing lyrics.

BTW - I do like Musiq's song "Half-Crazy" but he adds no life to his interpretation. I bet if Stevie Wonder recorded the tune, he would've turned it out.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By douglasm (68.113.13.31) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 11:51 am:

B. Foster....
....that was a horrible thing to do to people, subjecting them to the EERRRRGGGHHH history. I just wasted a perfectly good 90 minutes laughing my head off re reading darn things.....

By SteveS (209.219.207.3) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 12:52 pm:

Re: History of Errggh

Oh, the dreckage! KMNP!!

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 01:08 pm:

B. Foster,
I think you did a great service to new comers here. Errggh is a must read for forum members. It is probably what defines us best.

By drums (155.91.6.71) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 02:43 pm:

Hi Mr. Kev!!

Before I get into the SITSOM thing in NYC I have to say that "Half Crazy" was done in many forms, you should hear some of the outtakes!! As most people in the "industry" know, the singer is at the mercy of the producers who may have chosen that particular version. It really isnt up to the singers sometimes. As Jack Ashford said in SITSOM " You are wasting your money, but the producer would say Take 67!!! (simulating a whipcrack noise! )

But Half Crazy is great in the form that it is too!

Anyway, I cant comment on the Apollo thing because I was not there. But as for the baggy jeans falling around the legs, hey you are in NYC and probably see that look all the time! I am sure that he meant no disrespect to the audience, but that is his style. Believe it or not, he prefers to dress in a manner that pays homage to the 70's most of the time. He damn near wears an afro pick in his head!!

D

By Eddie Welk, Champagne Music drinker (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 04:03 pm:

Gee, I thought my cousin Larry's band would be mentioned by someone in the ERGGGGGGGGGGHHHHH thread. Guess he's just not thought of as being as popular now as he always used to think he once was.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 06:35 pm:

Drums:
I'm sure there are out-takes of Half Crazy that may outshine what I heard on the album.

As far as the Apollo gig w/the Funks are concerned, (**NOTE - Picture KevGo getting on a high horse as he is speaking!**)I'm sorry dude but if you're performing with a group of legends such as the Funks you damn well better come correct. Learn the damn lyrics - hell, it was "Shotgun" for God's sake!

Now about the baggy jeans falling around the waist showing off the drawers, yes I see it all the time - it's distasteful (IMO) to see it on the street and was even more so at the Apollo with the Funks. Marshall Crenshaw was there in a black t-shirt and black pants and looked sharp. Musiq could've worn some nice pants and a shirt. If you REALLY want to "pay homage" to the 1970s, look at what the acts wore on "Soul Train" and follow their lead. And leave the damn afro-pick in the dressing room.

Now, excuse me while I get off this damn horse...

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By stephanie (64.63.221.201) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 06:39 pm:

Another song some folks dont like that I personally feel was a beautiful song by the Neon Philharmonic (and they were two studio guys not
a symphony) is Morning Girl....
KevGo have you ever heard it its very pretty!!!!

Stephanie
A one hit wonder STUBASS ANGEL

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 06:42 pm:

Stephanie:
I remember the song from my years in radio.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Handsome (170.118.157.133) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 05:52 pm:

To add to piggyback KevGo's last comments in regards to Musiq baggy jeans...that kinda disturbs me with some of the new artists of today. When it comes to appearing on some awards shows, (the guys in particular), is it too much to put on a nice suit, and comb your hair? I understand that styles & times change, but surprise me every once in a while! This can sometimes send out the wrong message...

I know I've opened something here, so come on with it! ha ha ha :o)

Handsome

By don (68.75.165.130) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 06:30 pm:

To everyone. The song that get's on my nevres is "Always and Forever" by Heatwave, and "I Love You" by Lenny Williams. Don't care if it's the 45, LP, 8-Track, cassette, short, extended, and/or remix version either. If I'm listening to the radio, relaxing with a lady, a party or at a wedding-I'll just up and stop whatever it is that I'am doing and just up and leave, ya know.

By drums (216.178.85.78) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 07:48 pm:

Hi Kev & Handsome,

You know, I think that the clothing issue is more of a "Old Timers" vs. " Young Whippersnappers" debate. It is funny, but I am stuck between the both generations!! I dont wear the droopy jeans and show my boxers, but I dont knock the guys that do it. And I dont know about you guys but wearing a suit and tie un 20,000 watts of lights is not fun either. I look at some of the get ups that were worn by the Motown bunch and I cant see how they aren't a sweaty mess, by the time the concert is over.

Classic case comes to mind - Sheila E. and Diana Ross. Seems that Diana wants her band in tux's or suits when you are playing but Sheila couldn't drum in a suit jacket at that time. She wore a halter top so she could be more comfortable. Concert is great, but Diana is having a shit fit after the concert is done. She is fussing and screaming at Sheila because she is thinking that she wore the halter to upstage her. Sheila tells her piss off and I quit. The moral to me is: Wear what is comfortable to you and if the people dont like it, too bad. There are worse things to be stressed about.

D

By fayette (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 08:35 pm:

the songs i hate the most are depressing songs
to me those songs were
1.i'm chasing rainbows-blue magic
2.hey love-delphonics(the most depressing
music i ever heard
3.anything by stephanie mills and margie
joseph to me they sound like munchkins

so stubass you telling your elite angel
you don't like 'PULL UP TO DA BUMPER BABY
by grace jones??????

By Rhythm and Blues Showcase (68.134.68.192) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 01:23 am:

Hey Fayette.

I really like Stephanie Mills. She is one of my favorite singers. "I Feel Good All Over" is an awesome song. Also "I've Learned To Respect the Power Of Love". I think she's a dynamic performer. I enjoyed reading your post though, it's actually quite funny. You know Stephanie Mills played in the Wiz. (LOL). I'm also a Delfonics fan, but "Hey Love" does sound like it's playing on the wrong speed.
Now "Pull Up to Da Bumper", that was the jam!!

By JoB (204.42.12.2) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 01:57 am:

Don..."Always and Forever"???..."I Love You"???...wow, I didn't think that there was ANYBODY who didn't like those two songs...mine eyes have truly been opened :o)

By stephanie (64.63.221.248) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 12:54 pm:

JOB
I know why Don doesnt like that song. As much as
I like it its STILL played to death and it gets boring after awhile. The simplicity of it all is wonderful and its a great ballad but I think people are tired of it. I would rather hear Grooveline ..
Steph

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 01:08 pm:

Daren:
I remember the Sheila E/Diana Ross argument - Sheila talked about it years ago on the Arsenio Hall Show. Diana, like you indicated, is "old school" - the star dresses like the star & the musicians wear uniforms.

I agree about wearing what's comfortable but for God's sake even the most comfortable entertainers still dressed with class & taste. For example, toward the mid-1960s Otis Redding wore more open-necked shirts. The Temptations as well as the Four Tops wore casual wear on some TV shows and still looked neat & clean. The Supremes wore formal dresses on the Ed Sullivan Show (and that was a "black tie" affair) but wore casual dresses on "Where The Action Is".

The bottom line is an artist can be comfortable without looking sloppy.

And Musiq still should've wore a pants and a shirt....

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By moanman (24.44.218.110) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 02:37 pm:

I can't believe anything by Jill Scott made it into this thread. "A Long Walk" is the jam, in my opinion, & Jill's debut was one of the best things to come down the pike thus far this new century. I guess no matter how good someone is, ya can't please everyone.

"Ring My Bell" was a very irritating song.
Likewise Eddie Murphy's "Party All The Time"

By E.F. Hutton (151.197.33.80) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 04:06 pm:

Moanman,
Sure its YOUR opinion and I respect that, but also respect MY opinion as well.
After all, opinions are like a** holes, everybody has them!!

By moanman (24.44.218.110) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 04:27 pm:

E.F.
No dis intended. Even when it's in the minority, YOUR opinion is as valid as anyone else's. I respect it w/ in the same spirit as two minds agreeing to disagree. And just for the record, not everyone has a working a**hole.

Peace

By ErikT.O. (64.228.108.28) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 05:06 pm:

Mark Speck, congrats on the first post in this thread to post the first song titles to make me wince here... lemme rattle off a few, including a few Canadian contributions-
Just The Two Of Us
Sometimes When We Touch by Dan Hill
Seasons In The Sun by somebody who shouldn't have been let near a microphone
Anything by Rush or Steely Dan... oh so many more...

By 1Wicked (66.27.27.22) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 07:35 pm:

Handsome: I totally agree with you on the "saggin' and draggin" jeans that we see so often. If they (the young whippersnappers) understood that this was first popularized in prisons...and what the meaning of those saggy jeans actually was.....they would rather look like Urkel !!

By Eli (151.197.33.80) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 08:44 pm:

Considering the mentalitiy and the attitude of a lot of the aforementioned "whippersnappers"
the baggy jeans, head rag etc look is a fashionable precursor to their future status as wards of the state. A dry run , so to speak.
To me, that style makes them look like they have a load of s**t in their drawers!1

By don (68.75.58.12) on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 11:01 pm:

To Job & Steph. Another nerve racker is and this is not a put down to his incredible talents is Luther's renditions of Heatwave's "Always and Forever" and Undisputed Truth's "You Got Me Going In Circles---somebody pleeeeze!

By JoB (204.42.12.2) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 03:15 am:

don...I'm kind of feeling you on "Circles"...it doesn't do too much for me either...and I know you weren't putting the songs down, it's just that you really are the first person I've ever heard say that about Heatwave's and Lenny Williams songs...it just surprised me...but then again with the shoe on the other foot, I'm sure that a lot of people would call me crazy for saying that I just don't get what all the hype was about the Beatles...from the material of theirs that I've heard, they just don't sound all that great to me...

By RD (65.150.228.89) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 07:59 am:

"Going in Circles" was done by the Friends of Distinction. When did Undisputed Truth record the song?

By drums (155.91.6.72) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 08:39 am:

Hello again all,

I think a "Whippersnappers" vs. "Old Heads" debate should be opened!! Has that ever happened here??

Anyway, when it comes to the style of dress that people wear is still rooted towards the style of the time. Kev, what you saw was a collage of old and new. Nobody can tell Musiq or the Funk Brothers what can and cant be worn. And I am sure the moms and dads of the Funk Brothers and the Motown artists had SOMETHING to say about the way they dressed during their time too. Now I wasn't born then so I dont know what was said, but I am sure they were criticized too.

The overall point for all here is people are gonna do what they want and like what they like. My mistake was actually thinking that people that dont understand the hip hop culture would actually give the younger group a chance and try to support them. But as been said before, you cant please everybody. So the thought of Musiq in a suit and tie is unfathomable as the Funk Brothers wearing baggy jeans. But I am sure the audience enjoyed some part of what was going on. Did anybody boo Musiq that night?

Daren Metz

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 11:17 am:

Daren:
Nobody booed Musiq at the Apollo when he was with the Funks but every cotton-pickin' time he turned is a--- toward the audience, his pants were drooping. VERY unprofessional and uncool, my friend.

Also the fact that he botched up the words to "Shotgun" made many who sat in the balcony (where I was seated) cringe & comment.

Like I said, Daren - there's a time and place to appear in such a fashion. Musiq could have at least wore a belt or shirt & slacks. Even Michelle Williams of Destiny's Child (who was also there) looked very nice in her slacks & blouse.

I've made my point, I'm moving on...

Kevin "Sharp-Dressed Man" Goins - KevGo

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 11:20 am:

PS:
Look at what the Funks and Motown legends wore back in the day - decent clothing. Wearing pants with no belt and having a rag on your head were taboo even in the eyes of youth then.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By drums (155.91.6.72) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 11:25 am:

Hey There Mr. Kev!!

I hear what you are saying!! I am only trying to figure out if the same things were said of the Motown era stars, when they were in concert.

Were the generation that came before them say that they were just ripping off the styles of Duke Ellington and Lady Day? I do know that parents of children that liked the Beatles and Elvis REALLY didn't like their style and look at all. I dont know about how parents thought of Motown. Just asking......

D

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 11:33 am:

Hi All.

Drums, I do understand that artists have to wear what's comfortable to them, but I always maintain there is a time & place for everything. I guess, "my point" is, can you at least get away from the popular fad, once or twice? No, you don't have to do a full concert with sequins & shirt/tie/suits, but again throw us off, every now & again, when you're singing 1 selection or even presenting an award! :o) LOL! P.S.-Also just because something is popular doesn't mean you (as the individual) have to sport it...everything is not for everybody! Be different, develop your own individuality!

Thanks KevGo, Eli & 1Wicked.

Handsome

By drums (155.91.6.72) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 11:44 am:

Hello Handsome,

I dont think that you understood my last message. I am not debating any of what your saying. I do not wear the trends that everyone wears and this has nothing to do with baggy jeans.

My question is "What did the parents of Motown stars and the teens that listened think of their particular fashion statements of their day? Did they think they were ripping off the Big Bands of the 50's? Did they say things like "Why are they trying to be this or that?

Or did the parents of the children listening to the music of Motown agree with everything that those stars did? Again, I know what the case was with Elvis, who when he was on Ed Sullivan, would not pan below the waist and the Beatles, who had haircuts that were "shocking" and were thought to be of bad character.

I am not trying to win an election here, or the popularity of posters. I just have a question that cant or wont be answered.

D

By Vonnie (152.163.252.68) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 11:44 am:

Dear Daren,

I was at the Apollo when Musiq performed. I was aghast when I saw how he was dressed. I actually thought his pants were going to fall off of him. I kept saying to myself, when are his pants going to fall down. His underware were clean though, though I would have preferred not to view them. The people who were sitting next to me remarked "why doesn't he put a belt on, I could not agree more. (IMO) I felt that for such a momentous evening he should have dressed accordingly. I know that is the current style for younger adults and teens, but I feel you should dress for the particular occasion.

Vonnie

By drums (155.91.6.72) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 12:12 pm:

Hi Ms. Vonnie!!!


You guys havent called me! Anyway, I hope that you understand what I am asking about in my questions above. Anyway I hope that you two are well. I am only asking this because, I am sure that even in the Motortown revue days, the generation before them probably said things in the same way.

Anyway, I am glad you are well and I hope to hear from you soon!!! When are you coming to Philly?

D

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 12:21 pm:

Drums, I understand your posts perfectly...for one, I was merely repsonding to statements made previously before you asked/stated questions/comments about the parents of the Motown stars and their wardrobe.

I don't have an answer to your question, regarding the stars at Motown. Maybe the others on this forum can help you out.

Handsome

By moanman (24.44.218.110) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 01:05 pm:

I think much of this discussion has merit. Today's artists are so concerned with "keepin' it real", keepin it "gangsta" "dirty" "gully" "ghetto" "country" or "ghetto fab" for pure street creds. Little or no attention is given to an older audience, an audience raised with a different esthetic, different expectations. I personally think it (that laid back don't-give-a-sh.. look) takes away from the business of show, and robs the fans of just what might make that person special, a bonafide "Star".

Show Biz, at least back in the day, served many purposes. It uplifted us, took us from the dreary reality of our days & nights. It provided an escape. It entertained both our ears, our eyes, our senses with wonder, spectacle, even fantasy sometimes.

But times change.

Surely, not everyone has to be cleaner than the Board of Health, decked to the aces, dressed to the nines. But still, a li'l effort to be more presentable, to give the *paying* public something extra, would be cool. Maybe it's an age thing. The fact still maintains we are very much an image-driven culture. Many times image/style rules over talent and content. That's just a little too surface.

Given a choice I'd rather have somebody singing to me w/ some serious musical/performing skillz, as opposed to a GQ model, or covergirl poser.
Talent should be the determining factor. Appearance, secondary. In a more perfect world we'd still have both.

By BankHouseDave (195.93.50.10) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 05:06 pm:

I liked Ghost in My House.

Couldn't stand Billy Don't Be a Hero
Ruby, Don't Take Your Love to Town
Distant Drums - Jim Reeves
Save Your Love - Renee & Renata
Holiday - Mad Donna
You Picked A Fine Time to Leave Me, Lucille (with 400 children and the cr*p in the fields)
Tiger Feet - Mud
The Last Waltz (couldn't come soon enough) - Engelbert Humperdinck
Everything I do, I do to you - Bryan Adams

This list goes on....

By BankHouseDave (195.93.50.10) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 05:15 pm:

Oh, and Second Hand Rose - Barbara Streisand
Mother Kelly's Doorstep - Danny La Rue
Tiptoe Through the Tulips - Tiny Tim
Fan Light Fanny the Floosie Night Club Queen - Clinton Ford
Amazing Grace - some Scottish pipe band

By BankHouseDave (195.93.50.10) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 05:21 pm:

I forgot Mull of Kintyre - Wings
Anything by Eminem
Anything else by Eminem

By DJ (130.156.140.2) on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 02:33 am:

I think Eminem is an exceptional talent, and a very creative lyricists. He's not for everybody and no I don't like all of his songs, but the talent is there! He is a multi-platinum selling artist, but he is also very good.

By BankHouseDave (195.93.50.10) on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 04:24 am:

A lot of the people we're talking about are talented. They also have a special ability to offend the ears.

By stephanie (68.50.216.139) on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 02:16 pm:

Bankhouse dave you got it right on the money
I forgot Mull of Kintyre - Wings
That is the worst piece of crap McCartney ever put out the Beach boys never put out anything that bad!!!! There was one more song I forgot to put on the list and I know some people may like it but that song by Starbuck "Moonlight Feels Right" I hate that song especially the part when the guy starts laughing and says "ha ha
..Moonlight
...Feels right..

I mean it had good instrumentation and it was a catchy tune and I can see how it would hit but it just makes me sick like Charlene...Ive Never Been to Me.....

NO song beats Run Joey Run though...
daddy please dont it wasnt his fault he means so much to me...I have it right here next to me that song is hilarious its so bad its good....

Just like Alicia Bridges singing in I Love the NightLife is so bad it fits the song and she winds up sounding bad......anything by the Poppy Family is totally outrageous

there are a lot of bad songs out there that are quite good because they are listenable..the Night Chicago Died has a great beginning if you listen to it. I think the most unlistenable Supremes record is I Want a Guy...I cant think of anything by the Four Tops I cant listen to even if its bad I cant think of one bad record they did same with the OJays.....

There are a lot of bad records out there NOW more so than ever before but that Moonlight Feels Right has got to be the thing that grains me the most and I like her quirkiness but I cant buy a Macy Grey record Im not that desperate to hear anyone sing,,,
Stephanie

By Mark Speck (199.183.107.105) on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 03:54 am:

I totally agree with JSG on "Hotel California", but songs like "Arizona" and "Moonlight Feels Right"...you can't play those enough to suit me!

Kevin "Sharp Dressed Man"? I hope you don't decide to grow a ZZ Top beard...if you do I'll never speak to you again...LOL! ;)

Erik...you're very welcome.

Best,

Mark

By LBJ (63.88.160.101) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 02:20 pm:

FLOAT ON. bad production, so manay chines is sounds like christman carole, boring words, just a bad song