By PhillySoul (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:10 am:

Any Three Degrees fans out there. What did you all think of them on the recent PBS Special Rhythm Love and Soul. Check there website www.thethreedegrees.com

By Vickie (198.81.26.231) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:24 am:

Love them

By ?????? (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:59 am:

Does anyone have any other video on them from overseas where they mainly perform like in England, Japan, Holland, or Germany.

By Pogo (66.129.43.61) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 07:05 am:

Funny thing, just saw them on an old "Sanford & Son" rerun yesterday.

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 10:50 am:

Hi Everyone.

I love the Three Degrees. They were excellent on PBS, though Valerie was not the original lead on "When Will I See You Again", she pulled it off.
I saw the episode of Sanford & Son, a long time ago. I believe they sang, "I Didn't Know". That's the cut!

By B-town (207.8.188.200) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 10:59 am:

"I didn't know", that is the cut. Anybody know the personnel which appeared on that episode of "Sandford and Son". Also is it the same personnel that recorded "When will I see You Again"

By Eli (141.151.95.43) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:03 am:

I didnt know was recorded at the same session as w.w.I.s.y.a.

By B-town (207.8.188.200) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:06 am:

Not sure what that means Mr. Eli. Who was the personnel on the song?

By Eli (141.151.95.43) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:12 am:

The personnel were the usual MFSB rhythm section section who were Earl Young on drums, Ronnie Baker on Bass, Norman Harris and Bobby Eli on guitars, Vince Montana on vibes, Larry Washington on percussion and Leon Huff on piano.
The strings and horns are to numerous to mention.

By R&B (138.238.41.118) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:14 am:

THREE GOOD LOOKIN SEXY SINGIN LADIES!

By Fury13 (12.2.196.17) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:20 am:

Wasn't Sheila Ferguson the lead on "When Will I See You Again"? What is she doing these days?

By B-town (207.8.188.200) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:24 am:

Thanks Eli

By John Lester (62.49.61.57) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:34 am:

Bobby..wasn't it Sheila, Valerie and Fayette Pinkney on When Will I See You Again??

And just WHO was that "Dirty Old Man"

By stephanie (64.63.221.99) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:37 am:

Sheila has a website she is popular overseas go to Sheila Ferguson.com Fury13 and you will see her and her recent happenings..
Stephanie

By helmut (141.151.95.43) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:38 am:

Fury.. achtung!!! i shtill zay dat name sounds like mein feur... feur... oh vell you know what i mean

By Eli (141.151.95.43) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:40 am:

yes Sheila, Val and Fayette WERE the group with Shiela on lead .
On their version of Maybe, it was Val.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:49 am:

"When Will I See You Again" - classic tune.
Loved the Three Degrees, especially their live album and their early Roulette singles that were cut here in NYC (they covered the classic "Maybe" in 1970).
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Chancellor of Soul (63.78.189.114) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:21 pm:

Last night I saw an Sanford & Son episode (which
happens to be my particular favorite one)
entitled, " Presenting, The Three Degrees".
Very funny !!!! I love this group !!!

Peace,
Mike Boone
(Chancellor of Soul)

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:35 pm:

Bobby, was that Val singing lead on, "I didn't know"?

By !!!!!!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:52 pm:

Has anyone heard their Euro-Disco singles with Gorgio Moroder like Giving Up Giving In, The Runner, My Simple Heart, and the ballad Woman In Love which were hits for them between 1978 and 1979. That was when Helen replaced Fayette and rejoined the group with Sheila and Valerie.

By MEL&THEN SOME9 (217.14.178.108) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 02:39 pm:

I Saw Shelia Ferguson
on a tv interview the other week over here in the SOULFUL uk and she looks better now than when she was with the group.
Yowsa,Yowsa,Yowsa!!!!!!!!!!!
mel

By !!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 02:42 pm:

Did you tape the interview. What did she talk about?

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.108) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 02:45 pm:

!!!!
it was only about what she was doing over here really as she lives in the uk.
It didnt go into any detail regards her music or anything which was a pity.
MEL.

By PhillySoul (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:10 pm:

Mel Do you have any footage on them being you live in the UK like their Royal Albert Hall special from 1978 or any tv appearances.

By boynextdoor (65.238.58.3) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:19 pm:

Yea, does anyone know if the Royal Albert Hall concert was filmed and is it for sale out there anywhere????

By Michael/cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:23 pm:

I have the 12 inch of Givin Out Giving In which was a big European smash for the Three Degrees and a disco hit in the states. They always seemed to be much bigger in England & Japan than here in the States. Loved their high harmonies.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.5) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 03:54 pm:

Phillysoulman,
sorry dont have any footage,
but have scanned some great pics of them from a girl groups web-site.
http:/www.geocites.com/tggfc/
mel.

By PhillySoul (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 04:16 pm:

Mel...Thanks for responding. Boy Next Door...THe concert was televised in the UK in 1978 on the BBC network. Not many people taped it or have. The Three Degrees footage is rare.

By Memories (209.215.117.4) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 04:46 pm:

I saw The Three Degrees perform in 1968 at a baseball field in Richmond, Va. Being rather young at the time, they struck me as imitation Supremes, who were, of course, huge at the time.

The Three Degress opened a show featuring Tiny Tim and headlined by The Lovin' Spoonful. Talk about variety. I read many years later that it was the Spoonful's final show.

By Vandelron (24.44.20.172) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 06:13 pm:

As I understand it the 3 Degrees lost the rights to the name in the US after big battle with Richard Barret-tho they can use it elsewhere in the world. Mary WIlson kind of stumbeld over their intro on the PBS Special--here are Helen and the girls-Formerly of the 3 Degrees. How sad they cant tour here as they r know. Val sounded very much like Sheila--eerie.

By John Lester (217.40.220.59) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 06:44 pm:

I thought their Jump The Gun was a fabulous track as was their PWL output. Ritchie - was you involved with them?

But their Philly stuff was incredible...Long Lost Lover, Get Your Love Back, Year of Decision and one of my personal favourites..Can't You See What You're Doing To Me.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.43) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:06 pm:

Heres a few 3 Degrees 45s for you.

On Swan Records.

Drivin' me mad/look in my eyes(no.4235)
Gotta draw the line/close your eyes(no.4224)
Are you satisfied/Love of my life(no.4267)

On Warner Brothers Records.

Contact/no no not again(no.7198)

On Neptune Records.

Reflections of yesterday/what I see(no.23)

On Metromedia Records.

Warm weather music/down in the boondocks(no.109)

Mel(feeling 100 degrees)

By !!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:08 pm:

Vandelas and Memories. Memories it is funny you saw them in Richmond in 1968 cause that was 2 years after Helen Scott left the first time and that is actually where she was born but she moved to Philly when she was 3 and grew up there. Vandelas Richard Barrett does own the name and Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia cannot be who they are in the States but it is good that they got on the PBS special so that the world knows they are still around and never broke up. Hopefully promoters will book them now and they can now see how they can be billed.

By Eli (151.197.40.240) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:30 pm:

I toured with the Three Degrees on and off in 1970-71. Their manager, R.B. was a tyrant and a svengali type who ran a tight ship and the musicians including myself never knew when they would be fired(for no reason) as was his m.o.
Lo and behold, at the end of their second Bermuda gig, I was given my walking papers though no one could give me a straight answer as to why!!!
Several days after coming home, their road manager came by and asked me if I was ready! And so I said "ready for what?
So he then says "the gig in Atlanta!!" as if nothing happened. so I then told him just where he could stick the gig!!!
I loved the girls , but they were under the control of a tyrant!!!

By boynextdoor (65.238.6.137) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:38 pm:

I have a video from a couple of years ago starring The Three Degrees, Sister Sledge and Former Ladies of you know what. It's an excellent show with good sound quality and full orchestra. I think it may be from the Netherlands. Much to my surprize, Sister Sledge was the stand out here. Hmmm. Never liked them much in their day, but, they've apparently matured and put on a high evergy show. It was fun watching all the girls come out and sing the final together.

By RD (63.188.32.88) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:39 pm:

Richard Barrett susposedly wrote a tell all book about the music industry but I have yet to locate a copy.

By Eli (151.197.40.240) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 08:43 pm:

Richard's book is not out as of yet.
Should be a good read though.
He has a lot of history behind him starting with the heart and soul of the doo-wop era and records that are classics in the genre.

By !!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:13 pm:

Eli....Did you play on the Standing Up For Love album when Helen came back after Fayette left. It was there last CBS album before they signed with Ariola and Gorgio Moroder. The album was recorded at Sigma. Do you still speak with Valerie, Helen, Sheila, or Fayette. What did you think of them on the PBS special.

By Eli (151.197.40.240) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:19 pm:

!!!!! I'll have to listen to that album and I will let you know.

I spoke to Sheila about two months ago and the last time I saw Fay was in 1999. Its bee quite awhile that I spoke to Val.

By !!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:21 pm:

What about Helen? Did you know her too? What did you think of them on the PBS special?

By !!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:22 pm:

Boynextdoor...Is that the only footage you have on them? Can you get more than that?

By !!!!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 09:47 pm:

RD...How do you know about this book? Do you know when it will be out?

By RD (63.188.33.123) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:02 pm:

Actually !!!!!!, I heard about the book about two or three years ago.

I didn't think it was out either Bobby cause I've search the Internet bookstores and couldn't find it anywhere. I know some people who say they have copies, probably galleys or unpublished copies, which led me to initially think it was released.

One guy said the book was so scathing and revealing that if it was ever released Barret would have to go into hiding.

By Greg C. (207.103.134.164) on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 11:54 pm:

I saw Sheila a few years ago in London in a musical entitled "Soul Train." It was just OK.

My favorite Three Degrees album was the 1975 release "International." "Another Heartache" and "Long Lost Lover" are the jams! I was really sorry to see the girls leave PI. Their releases after that just didn't hit the mark.

By !!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 02:44 am:

RD....Do you know what he reveals on The Three Degrees. He had a bad relationship with Sheila Ferguson I know.

By !!!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 02:52 am:

Eli...What about Helen? Did you know her too? What did you think of them on the PBS special?

By !!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 09:51 am:

Greg C...Have you seen her new musical

By Eli (151.197.33.59) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:52 am:

I was in London in July of '99 and saw Soul Train the musical at the Victoria and personally speaking, I loved it!!!


Re: R.B., he has become a very bitter man so its anyones guess what the book will say.
I dont think that he has a publisher yet, though.

By !!!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:13 am:

Eli..What did you think of The Three Degrees on the PBS special. Are they still known amongst other Philly artists and producers. Do you you still speak to Helen Scott.

By dvdmike (68.72.92.82) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:14 am:

Episode #43 of "Sanford And Son" titled "Presenting The Three Degrees" originally aired on October 5, 1973 and featured Sheila, Valerie and Fayette. Also featured in this episode were comedians Leroy and Skillet and Dwan Smith, who played the the politically conscious sister in the film, "Sparkle".

By RD (63.188.32.228) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:40 am:

When you're shopping a book to publishers, and to acquaintences and friends for promo-blurbs copies are sent around. So there are indeed some people who know what is in R. B.'s book. The pre-published version anyway.

By !!!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:55 am:

RD...So what do you know about what is said about members of The Three Degrees.

By !!!!!!!!!!! (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:56 am:

RD...Do you know what is said about the member of the Three Degrees Helen, Sheila, Valerie, and Fayette?

By Eli (151.197.33.59) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 12:20 pm:

The book is not out yet!!!!!

By !!!!!! (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 12:46 pm:

Eli...What did you think of them on the PBS Special

By Eli (151.197.115.10) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 01:24 pm:

Valerie did a good job doing Sheilas lead part.
All in all they did a good job.

By !!!!!!! (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 02:23 pm:

Eli.....Did you know Helen? Do you speak to her or see her? She was a member on Swan records with Fayette and Janet Harmon. What about the newest member Cynthia Garrison?

By RD (65.132.77.156) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 02:36 pm:

!!!!!, I haven't seen the prepublished book that Barrett sent around so I can't comment on what he wrote; even if I had I wouldn't because the book isn't on the market. But I do know two people who received copies and both said that it's more revealing and tell all ish than Hit Men, a riveting account of the recording industry that came out some years ago.

He may never find a publisher because of libel and slander issues. The major publishers aren't showing much interest and the small ones can't afford to handle the legal-heat that would result. R.B. may end up self publishing.

By !!!!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 07:15 pm:

RD...I feel ya. Barrett has been around for a longtime. I am curious to read it. Does anyone else other than Bobby Eli know or met the girls personally? Did you know that after Helen, Sheila, and Val left him he launched another set of girls in the late 80's and early 90's and tried to get them going but was not successful. It is unfortunate that he owns the rights to the name. Helen, Fayette, Sheila, and Val were the ones that did the work for him.

By !!!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 09:11 pm:

Eli.....Did you know Helen? Do you speak to her or see her? She was a member on Swan records with Fayette and Janet Harmon. What about the newest member Cynthia Garrison?

RD...I feel ya. Barrett has been around for a longtime. I am curious to read it. Does anyone else other than Bobby Eli know or met the girls personally? Did you know that after Helen, Sheila, and Val left him he launched another set of girls in the late 80's and early 90's and tried to get them going but was not successful. It is unfortunate that he owns the rights to the name. Helen, Fayette, Sheila, and Val were the ones that did the work for him.

By Eli (151.197.115.10) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 09:27 pm:

I have known the girls and Richard since the Swan days and all I remember are Sheila, Fay and Val. Sheila also had some solo records on Swan.
My professional involvement with them started as I had previously mentioned in 1970 where I conduced the band for them at the Latin Casino after richard had a bout of overindulgence of some sort.
I went on to do the Mike Douglass show and a host of tour dates during which I played on the Maybe sessions including the song Magic Mirror which I wrote for them.
From there it was with TSOP.

By !!!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 09:48 pm:

Eli...Thanks for the history and I did read the previous post. In all the years I thought Helen was remembered by some people. She sang the lead on the Swan version of Maybe. She just had a real sweet soprano voice. The Swan sessions are real classic. And when she returned with Sheila and Val after Fayette left. THe Ariola recordings with Gorgio Moroder like Woman In Love and Giving Up Giving In were good too.

By Eli (151.197.115.10) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 09:53 pm:

!!!!! You ARE the ultimate Three Degrees fan!!!!

By !!!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:05 pm:

Eli...They were a tight group. They looked good too. Their harmonies on stage were magical.

By !!!!!! (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:07 pm:

Eli...Check out there website at www.thethreedegrees.com I did not design it but what do you think.

By Eli (151.197.115.10) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:19 pm:

!!!! Can you please reveal your identity????

By !!!!Mark (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:15 pm:

Eli....My name is Mark and I am from Chicago

By Eli (151.197.115.10) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:22 pm:

Thanks Mark! Good to know you.

By Eli (151.197.115.10) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:28 pm:

I believe that if the Three Degrees had the right management they could have been as big as the Supremes if not bigger.
When I played with them,their show was class personified.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason R.B. held them back. Nobody wanted to deal with him and the girls suffered because of it.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:43 pm:

I agree and it is a shame that they had to suffer. But I do give it to Richard for grooming them and throwing them together. I mean I think Helen and Val should have the name and that they should be able to work here in the States under it. It may be a new set in which people saw but it is the same ladies and same sound just about. I read some old articles where Val stated Richard would replace you at the drop of a dime and he always made them feel like they didn't have a permanent job. I commend Helen, Sheila, and Val for firing him in 1981. At that time they were very popular in the UK since the 3 of them were at the Royal Wedding of Charles and Di.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:44 pm:

Eli....Do you know why the girls left PIR and G&H.

By MArk (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 11:41 am:

Eli....Do you know why the girls left PIR and G&H

I agree and it is a shame that they had to suffer. But I do give it to Richard for grooming them and throwing them together. I mean I think Helen and Val should have the name and that they should be able to work here in the States under it. It may be a new set in which people saw but it is the same ladies and same sound just about. I read some old articles where Val stated Richard would replace you at the drop of a dime and he always made them feel like they didn't have a permanent job. I commend Helen, Sheila, and Val for firing him in 1981. At that time they were very popular in the UK since the 3 of them were at the Royal Wedding of Charles and Di.

By Eli (151.197.38.58) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 12:22 pm:

The girls "left" PIR because RICHARD was the one signed to the label and the girls were signed to Richard and when G&H had a major falling out with RB the girls suffered as a result.
That kind of move was typical of RB as he was a schizophrenic.

And yes, he would hire and fire at the drop of a dime.

In Vegas in the middle of a one month run at the Riveria, he fired the drummer and bass played for NO reason just because he had the power to do it. So I then had to rehearse the house rhythm section with a series of TEDIOUS rehearsals and then I had to rehearse a different section everyday for a month of one nighters!!
By the way, the bass player he fired was Alphonso Johnson who would soon join Weather Report. he was a dear friend of mine and I felt so bad when that happened . I tried to talk sense into RB but to no avail.

Next he hired a pianist for a gig in Hawaii and he fired him right after the gig a month later.
My turn came at the end of September in Bermuda when Fayette whispered to me on the way off the stage that RB had let me go.

Less than a week later their road manager, Jojo came to pick me up to take me to the airport as if nothing had happened and I told him to tell RB to stick it you know where.

By the way , he probably named them the Three Degrees after giving everyone the third degree.

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:03 pm:

Bobby] You got me cracking up here thats too funny...the third degree, h-he-he-he!!!!!!! S.Sis

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 01:45 pm:

Eli...I didn't know Richard was the one signed and not the girls themselves. Do you know what the actual issue was between G&H and RB.

By Eli (151.197.38.58) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 02:30 pm:

G&H could not take any of RB's psychotic behavior anymore( they caled him Hitler behind his back and everyone else viewed him in that maned as well) so they killed that whole "production deal" setup and shortly thereafter G&H met the Jones Girls at the Shubert Theater in Philly while they were backing Diana Ross and G&H were impressed enough to sign them and to step in where the 3 degrees left.
So in essence, all of the JG's songs could have been 3D songs.

Did someone say 3rd Reich or 3 degrees??

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 06:32 pm:

Eli....That is something. It is ironic too cause the girls remained on CBS after PIR. They did 3 more albums. A live in Japan, Toast Of Love (which was recorded in Japan and Fayette's last album, and Standing Up For Love which was when Helen returned and it was recorded at Sigma. I know you said you had to hear it but it was produced by Barrett and Richard Rome. Track listings were:

Standing Up For Love,
What I Did For Love,
Macaroni Man
Gee Baby I'm Sorry
People With Feeling
Just Leave Me Alone
In Love We Grow
We're All Alone.

Do those tunes ring a bell to you.

By Eli (151.197.38.58) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 09:10 pm:

Hi Mark..
I wasnt on none of that stuff and I dont know who was.
RB probably undehandedly negotiated his own deal directly with CBS.
No wonder it flopped. Bad Karma indeed.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 09:35 pm:

The album did flop but some of the songs were good.

By stephanie (64.63.221.17) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:11 pm:

Isnt it true that Sheila married Richard Barrett and that is why the other Three Degrees wont have anything to do with her? By the way my fave song by them is Giving Up Giving In I have the album and Year of Decision is good too, I never cared for When Will I see You Again like everyone else did. I think their live album is great!!
Stephanie

By Greg C. (207.103.134.65) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:12 pm:

Standing Up For Love was a real dud! The only good thing about it was the cover which had the ladies in flowing pastel dresses and they looked smashing.

Those albums they did with Giorgio Moroder at Ariola America were bad as well. His arrangements were bumble bee electronics and herky-jerky disco and virtually drowned out their tight harmony. The only two songs that were salvageable from those sessions were "My Simple Heart" and "Starlight" which slowed down the tempo considerably enough to let the ladies vocal abilities come through.

Thanks Eli for providing the insight as to why the ladies left PIR. I wondered about that for a long time. Had they remained at the company, it would have been interesting to see how they would have performed some of the Jones Girls material like "You're Gonna Make Me Love Somebody Else", "The Feelins' Killing Me", or my favorite "We're A Melody."

By MArk (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:33 pm:

Stephanie...Sheila did not marry Richard Barrett. She broke up with him. Her relationship with him was actually the inspiration for their 1978 hit "The Runner" from the New Dimensions Album which Giving Up Giving In and Woman In Love are on...Helen and Val do not speak to her for the way she left the group in 1985. Sheila claims she left for her twin daughters. Fayette does not speak to Val or Sheila from what I hear. She only speaks with Helen as they started the group on the Swan years with Janet Harmon. I heard it was awkward for Helen at first as she did not know why Fayette left. She just recieved the call from Sheila in Aug of 1976 and had an hour to make up her mind to come back and she did.

Greg C...You are one of the only people I have heard say they did not like the Ariola stuff. My Simple Heart was a huge hit for them and I like Starlight as well. But Woman In Love was a beautiful ballad. Giving Up Giving In and The Runner was good too. To me it was good for them as Helen, Sheila, and Val adapted to the times but kept their own style and sound to those records.

Eli...Have you heard the Ariola sessions before

By Vandelron (24.44.20.172) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 10:48 pm:

So what exactly didnt the others like about Sheila's leaving?

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 11:22 pm:

From what I saw in an interview a few years ago from a UK top ten girl groups documentary. The Three Degrees were ranked 7 of all time in the UK and they did not interview Sheila. They interviewed Helen, Val, and Richard Barrett. Richard talked about how he had to be focused and how he was like Phil Spector and on the topic of their courtcase he said he was not gonna let anyone go around using the name. Helen and Val spoke on the groups affiliation with Prince Charles and how Sheila left abruptly. Sheila was living in the UK and Helen and Val lived in Philly at the time. They said that they were not as well off as she was. Helen stated in that interview that Sheila called and said I don't wanna do this anymore and can you tell Val. Helen stated no you tell her and that on the phone you could hear a pin drop cause Val was stunned and felt betrayed. THey were not ready to call it quits. In other interviews I heard that Sheila wanted to take the group into a punk rock direction and Helen and Val did not want to do that.

By MArk (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 02:02 am:

From what I saw in an interview a few years ago from a UK top ten girl groups documentary. The Three Degrees were ranked 7 of all time in the UK and they did not interview Sheila. They interviewed Helen, Val, and Richard Barrett. Richard talked about how he had to be focused and how he was like Phil Spector and on the topic of their courtcase he said he was not gonna let anyone go around using the name. Helen and Val spoke on the groups affiliation with Prince Charles, Sheila's relationship with Barrett and how Sheila left abruptly. Sheila was living in the UK and Helen and Val lived in Philly at the time. They said that they were not as well off as she was. Helen stated in that interview that Sheila called and said I don't wanna do this anymore and can you tell Val. Helen stated no you tell her and that on the phone you could hear a pin drop cause Val was stunned and felt betrayed. THey were not ready to call it quits. In other interviews I heard that Sheila wanted to take the group into a punk rock direction and Helen and Val did not want to do that.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Lagunabeach (65.238.58.238) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 08:58 am:

Anone interested in Three Degree video's or any girl groups, try: Michael Michaud
83 Elliot Street
Danvers, MA 01923
978-774-1716

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:00 am:

Vandelron...The interview also talked about how Sheila was in love with Richard from a young age and how through the years Helen, Fay, and Val had to be dragged into their disputes being a group

By Eli (151.197.123.83) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:09 am:

Sheila must have been quite a masochist then!!
She sure doesnt love him now!!!!

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:16 am:

Eli...Before Sheila, Helen, and Val parted with him she got married to an English guy who she divorced last year but Barrett sent her a note on her wedding day saying she will always be his. She stated that in UK tabloid last fall....

By Michael/cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:39 am:

I was wondering when the issue of Richard Barrett and his relationship to the group would be discussed. There has always been the feeling in some quarters that the Three Degrees would have been much bigger than they eventually became if Richard Barrett did not have a stranglehold on the group. In an interview that I saw years ago from England it appeared that Richard Barrett would rather see the group destroy than to see the group do anything away from him or outside of his control. Of course, there are two sides to these kinds of issues.

By phillysoulman (151.197.123.83) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:55 am:

Michael..
You are absolutely right in your assumption.
he is a very bitter man and in my opinion needs some "counseling"

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 12:53 pm:

Does anyone know who the lead is on "I Didn't Know"?

By MArk (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:01 pm:

Handsome...The lead on I didn't know is Valerie and then Sheila...

Michael...You are right and now all of the girls Helen, Sheila, and Val have spoken in various interviews about it.

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:17 pm:

Thanks Mark.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 03:18 pm:

Has anyone else seen them in concert and who was in the group at that time?

By Bill (81.77.224.157) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:22 pm:

Hi all,
Big UK fan of The Three Degrees here. Great to see a lot of interest in the group. Have seen them in concert 7 times, starting in 1980. Met them at a Fan Club "get together" the same year.
Saw them last in '97, (Val, Helen, Cynthia), and thought they were great. Had previously seen V&H with Victoria Wallace, (who was on the "and Holdi ng" album). Have many Albums, spanning the years. Play "If and When" from the PIR "Three Degrees" album up loud!!!!
The ladies have re-recorded most of thier hits on CD's. The recordings are pretty good. Agree they could have been much bigger with the right direction in the early 80's. Hope to catch them again in the near future!

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:27 pm:

Folks:
It's sad to see a man such as Richard Barrett, who has done much in the music biz in the early 1950s, turn out to be such a stubborn person but given the fabric of managers/producer from that era I'm not at all surprised by reading Bobby's & Cleo/Michael's insights.

Phil Spector, Richard Barrett, George Treadwell (Drifters' manager) - these were examples of manager/producer/tyrant types who at that time could get away with such tactics then but would be kicked to the curb in the present day if they were to pull anything stupid.

Thank God the industry has changed in some ways - yet still has a way to go in others.

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Wonder B (80.14.145.197) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:39 pm:

For those into rare stuff, the great double Live album simply called Live In Japan is fantastic with it's large size calendar featuring superb shots of Sheila, Valerie and Fayette...Among several other LP's that were only released in Japan, I must mention the Millie Jackson Live In Japan, the two LP's by the Supremes and the Jackson 5 both named 'Live In Japan' (which I mentioned in another thread), the great Herbie Hancock 'Flood' double live LP, Larry Graham's 'Fired Up' from 1985 (studio LP) with unbelievable solis from the man (two other albums never came out elsewhere, Graham Central Station Live IN Japan issued in 1990 with George Johnson from the Bros fame on guitar, and Back By Popular Demand in 1996 I believe on the small P-Vine label)...
There are many other albums issued in the land of the rising sun only...

Wonder B

Wonder B

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 09:17 pm:

Bill....Do you have video on them? I am glad to hear their are still fans that like them.

Kev...I am glad the industry has changed since then. I just wish Helen, Val, and Cynthia could so a lot more in the States.

By Eli (141.151.79.28) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 09:48 pm:

Well RB IS getting old and you know......
no one is promised forever.

By Soul Sister (65.43.150.250) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 10:41 pm:

Kev-Go; Lets not forget the imfamous Herman Lubinsky from your list of 50s tyrants! S.S.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:27 pm:

Eli....Although RB is getting old. He has a wife and kids. THey may try to carry this on to the next generation

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 12:48 am:

Wonder B..As far as Japan..The Three Degrees are real popular there. They will be in Japan at the end of this month according to their website www.thethreedegrees.com

By Bill (81.79.37.155) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 01:52 pm:

Mark,

Sadly no. I did have a lot at one time, but over the years, house moves and children have lost/erased them, (I think, you never know I may come across some). Apart from numerous TV appearences in the 80's, promoting whatever single was out at the time, Val Helen & Sheila's 1979 "Evening with.." Concert at the Royal Albert Hall was recored and shown on BBC television. The ladies also recorded their own show for BBC in 1982 "Take 3 Degrees". The last network appearences I think were to promote "The Heaven I Need" in 1985. Val, Helen and Cynthia have, as previously mentioned, appeared on a Channel 4 "Top 10 Girl Groups" a couple of years ago. They also appeared on UK VH1 during a "Disco" weekend.

As you may know there is a long running music show on BBC, "Top of the Pops", (or TOTP). There is a sister show, "TOTP2", which is on twice a week, showing archive clips. The ladies are often on there from either the 70's or 80's. TOTP2 has its own Website, at bbc.co.uk, (then follow the link). This has short clips from over the years, including, currently, "My Simple Heart".

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 01:59 pm:

Soul Sister:
Thank you for the addition - for what Herman did to Jimmy Scott I'm sure Lucifer had plenty of room for when Mr. Lubinksy left this earth....
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By MArk (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 04:53 pm:

Bill,

I am actually looking for those videos that you mentioned. The Royal Albert Hall and the Vh1. Do you know anyone that may have that stuff. You can e-mail me at Magicnotez@aol.com

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 05:07 pm:

Kev-Go;
For what Herman also did to Little Esther and Big Maybelle and a whole lot of others!!!
But blocking Jimmy's career because he refused to sing rock n'roll was the worst. With Little Esther the courts told Herman he couldn't have a lifetime contract on her, that was slavery!!!
I understand he treated his own son horribly and the son was a nice guy. I guess he wanted to hold everyone in slavitude!!! The stories are many, and too horrible and too many to repeat!!!
S.S.

By ..... (207.241.96.10) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:20 pm:

Is Herman Lubinsky related to T.J. Lubinsky?

By Eli (151.197.60.215) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:52 pm:

TJ is his grandson.

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:59 pm:

Please don't judge the kid by his grandfather, the kid's father was a beautiful guy; and it seems T.J. is too!

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 09:56 pm:

well TJ is cool with me being he got The Three Degrees on the last special

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 11:52 pm:

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 11:57 pm:

Above is a picture I have from left to right Helen, Sheila, and Val in 1978. Eli...This was life after PIR.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 11:59 pm:

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 12:02 am:

By blue (12.88.189.93) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:06 am:

As I grew up in Japan in 70's, I remember how popular they were at that time there. They recorded 2 albums(as Mark wrote before), sang in Japanese, published the photo book, made numeroun TV apprearances, and had their own TV special too.
For many years I simply wondered why they were not big here in US as in Japan and Europe.
It's really sad to hear That their manager held them back.
I heard that about 10 years ago, Val, Helen & Chythia and New Three Degrees toured in Japan at the same time.
The promoter who invited the new one did not know what was going on. It became a NEWS and Val, Helen & Chynthia had a press conference alongside of New group.

BTW does anybody have thier "Album of Love","Live in UK"(not"Live in London") and Fay's solo album "One Degree"?
If so, can't you describe them?
I hope I will be able to get them on CD someday.

By MArk (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 07:57 am:

Blue....I did know of that. THat was when Barrett had younger girls and tried to relaunch the group. Album of Love and Live in the UK were put out in 82 and 83 on the girls own label at that time. They are rare gems. I do have them to:

By Eli (151.197.61.149) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:30 am:

Mark...
You ARE the ultimate 3 Degrees fan!!!

By Fury13 (12.2.196.17) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:58 am:

http://surf.to/3degrees

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:10 pm:

Mark:
The photos are absolutely beautiful! Thank you for sharing them with us!
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:15 pm:

Soul Sister:
I read Arnold Shaw's "Honkers & Shouters" book and it gave a blow-by-blow account of Herman Lubinsky's ways & means. He really was a piece of work from what I gather.

You're right about T.J. - he is a really nice guy and is trying to do the right thing with his PBS specials.

BTW - How did Jimmy finally break away from Herman Lubinsky?

Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Sue (63.85.105.20) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:50 pm:

Hey Kevgo,
Send me an email, I've lost yours and had a question.

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 03:12 pm:

Kev-Go; He died! S.S.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 03:48 pm:

Soul Sister:
Yikes! So that's what it took...a bitter man with a more bitter grudge. I hope the devil has had a good time with his soul.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 06:39 pm:

Kev-Go;
From 1960 to 1975 he blocked the best albums Jimmy recorded in his young career, the 1962 masterpeice produced by Ray Charles who played piano on it and taught the other musicians how to play the music correctly to showcase Jimmy's voice & style. Marty Paich & Gerald Wilson did a brilliant job of arrainging, with strings. This was to be the big break thru album, Herman blocked it with bluff, Ray just started his new label and the powers to be told him he couldn't afford a lawsuit, Ray was plenty mad!
Then Atlantic & Joel Dorn produced an equally great two albums that were blocked by Herman. Herman along with his buddy Jimmy Evans blocked Jimmy from the circuits, so Jimmy couldn't make a living at his craft, only working some small clubs, so he had to get a 9 to 5 and live in vertual obscurity for years. But
blessings came thru Doc Pomus and Jimmy's been making up for lost time ever since!
S.S.

By stephanie (64.63.221.239) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 08:56 pm:

Dont be fooled those are not pictures of the Three Degrees those are pictures of me and Vickie and Soulsister and when we need a replacement if someone is sick Medusa comes in .....those are not the real Three Degrees!!!
Stephanie
A kidding wannabe girl group angel

By Eli (151.197.61.149) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 09:02 pm:

Soul Sister..
Yesterday when I was on the air with Jerry Blavat, I brough up Jimmy and jerry did a bang up impersonation of Jimmy!!!
He is so hapy that Jimmy is doing well and next time Jimmy hits Philly he wants to have him on the radio show!!

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 09:39 pm:

Bobby;
Thats cool with me, its all good! We appreciate your good word Bobby my soul brother no. 1 !!!
Now we got to work on Mr. DeLuca on what we discussed at Val Shively's, that would be the coolist!!!!!!!
Love Ya', S.S.J.

Angel Stephanie; Thanks for including me in your girl group! Also Vonnie can be a group member in good standing, she'd be an asset!
SoulangelSister

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 09:53 pm:

Eli....You should mention the THree Degrees to Blavat...THey would love to play at home...He was at the PBS show and saw them...

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 10:17 pm:

Mark;
You sound like their agent. (smile) You must reaLLY love them!
S.S.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:08 pm:

I am not their agent. *smile*...But after everything in the previous posts...Its a damn shame that no one would book them.

By Soul Sister (68.73.167.246) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:20 pm:

Mark;
Maybe that PBS appearance will open up some doors in the U.S.
S.S.

By Eli (151.197.61.149) on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:26 pm:

Someone should take the bull by the horns and book them and fight the mighty opressing tyrant!!
Look into Psalms 91 and you will see just what I mean!!

By Bill (81.77.225.228) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 05:11 pm:

Mark,

Sorry to take so long to reply. I am not aware of anyone who has any videos to the RAH or VH1. The RAH was broadcast in late '79, not many housholds owned VCR's then! I am sure it has never been repeated either. I am sure you are aware some of the RAH live tracks were on side 2 of the K-Tel "Gold" album. Although from what I can remember of the TV show, not the same tracks that were shown. From Fan Club correspondence at the time, I can remember the complaints that both the TV and Album were terribly hacked up! I often look at the Ebay.co.uk site, under Three Degrees, when sometimes throws up some interesting stuff.

Caught Val Fayette and Sheila in "The French Connection" the other night. Pit Gene Hackman got in the way!!!

Bill

By David Meikle (62.252.128.6) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 07:03 pm:

Hi to Mark from Chicago

I love "And in return"

Chicago is my last frontier!

David

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 08:55 pm:

Eli...I agree they should fight the tyrant but they did that and loss obviously cause they cannot use the name here. SO how and why would they go thru that again...

Bill: Do you still have any of old fan club newsletters?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 08:07 pm:

Eli...I agree they should fight the tyrant but they did that and loss obviously cause they cannot use the name here. SO how and why would they go thru that again...

Bill: Do you still have any of old fan club newsletters?

By Eli (151.197.216.185) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 09:36 pm:

Mark,
What goes around comes around!!

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 10:57 pm:

Eli:...That is true. But how do you think it will come around for Val, Helen, and Cynthia.

By breathtakingguy (65.238.115.116) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 04:41 pm:

I have a tape of Fayette's "One Degree" solo recording. It's "ok". The first cut, "Leave a light in the Window" is catchy. The rest of the stuff is mediocre. I'm still glad I have it for historical sake of The Three Degrees.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 09:59 pm:

Breath....That is the one thing I do not have

Eli...How do you think it will come around for Helen, Val, and Cynthia

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 09:22 pm:

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:12 pm:

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:16 pm:

By MArk (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:17 pm:

Here are updated pics with Val, Cynthia and Helen

By rockfan (65.238.154.229) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 11:27 pm:

Love those pictures!!! Michael Michaud, 83 Elliot Street, Danvers, MA sells a lot of The Three Degree videos. I know he had the Royal Albert Hall one, but, he said it was only for trade. I had nothing to trade....so....don't own it. Give him a try. He has great girl group videos....some really rare stuff. He also was doing Three Degree LP'S to CD the last I heard. I was able to get all the Supremes out of print (mostly 70's) stuff on CD with the original cover art, as well as LoveUnlimited. So, all you girl group fans.....this might be you answer to some really good stuff!

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 10:32 pm:

I know of the guy and I do not have that much to trade either. I have all of the LP's on CD too.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 11:55 pm:

Eli...You said you what goes around comes around. How do you think it will come around for Helen, Val, and Cynthia?

By Eli (151.197.217.213) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 07:13 am:

Richard WILL break under pressure, mark my words!!! He will relinquish his stranglehold on the group.

By julie (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 02:39 pm:

This is to Bobby Eli and anyone else concerned. Yes, it will go on to the next generation and many genertions after that.
The people out there have no idea about the real truth. Especially Bobby Eli who was with Richard Barrett for about 5 minutes of a 19 year career. Richard would like to thank him for the name tyrant svengalli and running a tight ship because from what I've seen if he hadn't there would not have been a group. From three school girls from the ghetto to Buckingham Palace is quite a jump I would say! What other group do you know who's manager has ever accomplished anything like that? Break under what pressure! Where did the girls go after Richard, what did they accomplish? Nothing! Just ask Sheila, she took what Richard taught her and used it to her best advantage! This is Richard's wife Julie Barrett Sheffield, England.
Mr. Barrett's reply will follow.

By R. Barrett. T.D.E.I. (205.188.209.109) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 03:22 pm:

I never responded to trash before. This time I don't want the public mislead. "I'm getting old" Wow! What a revelation, and to think I thought everyone was getting older, but I guess it's just me.
In responce to Bobby Eli: I was doing this business when Eli was in diapers. When I met Eli, he was an entertainment groupie. I gave him the opportunity to work with my act. He was a guitar player and nothing more. He knows nothing about me, my business or my business dealings. If he has a beef with me, it's because when in Las Vegas he came to the Casino dressed like a tramp with a raggedy guitar case with the dirty lining hanging out of it. I jumped on him about his attire and equipment. All the employees had to display class, and he had none! He only worked for me for a very short time anyway. As far as my reputation is concerned as a Tyrant and a Svengali, so be it. All my acts are winners! And "At least I have a reputation!" be it good, bad or indifferent, at least I don't steal or rip people off. How about that Eli!

As far as a stranglehold is concerned with Valerie, Cynthia (Whom I don't even know) and that other one. I have had nothing to do with them since 1981 and finally in Federal Court in 1989. So what stranglehold are you reffering too? I know you're not very intelligent, but Eli this shows your stupidity. When you start flapping your lips as least try to know what you're talking about!
The accusation that I held my own group back is just plain stupid. I made my act Superstars around the world. I guess your world extends from Atlantic City to California, and you probably don't know anything about the rest of the world. For the exeption of the places I took you Eli.

As far as the other ignorant jerks who have comments about me go F--k off, and get a life! You are the ones that should immediatly get councelling, because it is you who really needs it!

As far as Gamble and Huff are concerned, I would expect that from them. (Why?) because I wanted them to pay The Royalties they owed! To T.D.E.I And every other artist that they never paid!

To the jerk that uses RD as Identification
As for my book "SWEET & SOUR MUSIC" only one person has read this book. Anyone who says they have, is a liar! (Revealing) without a doubt! It's called the truth! If anyone goes into hiding, you can believe it certainly won't be me.

Richard Barrett.

By Michael/cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 03:22 pm:

Well.... it looks as though things are heating up in here. I just love this forum!!

By RD (63.188.33.22) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 04:51 pm:

Richard Barrett: I can't understand your venom towards me. I never attacked your character or call you any names. I don't even know you.

I never said I read your book. I said two people that I talked to said they did. One you know, one you probably don't. It's quite possible both were lying to me. One said he knew you and I know the other one don't. But they did know about your book. How did they know you even wrote one if they never saw it or at least heard some comments about it? It's hard to believe that you wrote a book and only showed it to one person; no wonder it hasn't been published. You got to shop that mother, Richard.

I'm no jerk and never called you one. Save your name calling for those who offended you, which I didn't. I simply stated what I was told by some others, i.e. "If the book is ever published he would have to go into hiding."

You should also remember that negative publicity is better than no publicity. Did you write a book or a diary? Thanks for slapping me for bringing up your book; believe me, I never will again. Nobody will hear about "your book" from me.

By Richard Barrett T.D.E.I (64.12.97.7) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 08:44 pm:

Dear RD: It would be nice to identify yourself. I would never go on the internet to spread hear say, or write something that somebody told me if I wasn't absolutly sure it was the truth. I am a very private person, more of a loner. My book is irrelevant to anyone until I'm ready to have it published. You might be suprised how clear the air will become. And how low people really are hiding behind lies and deception. I ask you to identify yourself as I don't think you even know me, or my history in this business.
Disregard the word jerk as your reply was cordial.
Richard Barrett

By RD (63.188.33.179) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 09:34 pm:

Hey RB: I don't know you. I stated that in my reply. Some guys I talked to said they seen/read/heardabout your book. And one of them made the comment. And NO! I won't reveal them; one has already been the victim of identity theft and I don't wanna be. The only reason I feel you should reveal yourself in a message forum is if you're trying to sell something or need the strokes--I need neither.

Most people who have wrote a book want the word out; how come you don't? By mentioning your book on a public message forum about music I introduced it to an audience of people who might want to buy it. Do you appreciate that. Hell naw!

I really have nothing else to say, but this, the first time I heard about your book was from a fellow in NY who initials are B. C.--you do the detective work seeing your so upset that somebody know about your book. Read the posts on this thread, I never said a thing about your character or lack thereof.

By Vandelron (24.44.20.172) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 11:47 pm:

RB--why didn't u address the issue of preventing the Original Three Degrees from using the name that has been their liveliehood?Why are you so angry?PS--this is a civil group of people--we dont call each other names.

By Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (68.80.162.3) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 11:48 pm:

after reading what everybody has said about Richard, and reading his responds, he did not promote his book, you RD brought it up, he was talking about the 3 degrees and what Bobby Eli and others said he did to hurt the group, he made the 3 degrees, if it was not for Richard you would have never herd of them, I remember when Richard started the group, he took them to Boston, and when they came back to Philly they were stars,yes Richard is a tyrant, when it comes to the girls, if he was'nt thay would not be were they are today, do any of you guyes know how it is to take 3 young good looking girls on the road, and keep all the jive ass peaple off of them, he did a fabulous job,nothing last forever, he has made so many stars,the 3 degrees was just one, Richard is my friend, and has been for over 50 years.yes I did read some of the book,and it tells how the music business was in New York back in the day.
WELDON

By Julie (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 09:27 am:

Vandelron, Nobody seems to understand. When the girls broke their contract, did anyone care about Richard's livlyhood. When they first left they still made the big bucks...and still today make money off the name. You have no idea of the history of the name. That was Richard's blood and sweat. And again did they care about Richard?, No.
Today they are still working....
Richard has never answered to any negative things said about him before...But, it just gets tired when people really have no idea.

By RD (63.188.32.23) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 10:06 am:

Weldon, I don't have a problem with Richard I was just answering the part where he called me a jerk for mentioning his book and the comment made, which was not intended to be as serious as it appears...the guy who made it was laughing. I thought RB was still trying to market the book and this is a Three Degree thread so I spoke. If I had known he no longer wanted to pursue publication I would have never brought it up. I heard about the book about three years ago from a guy that's been in the music business as long as you and Richard and have wanted to read it every since. I really brought it up to see if someone would chime in as to where I could find a copy; I didn't know it never came out as a couple of o

By Ralph (209.240.198.62) on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 11:01 am:

OK gang, I just read through this entire thread. So it appears some issues exist. I think it is only fair that this debate be allowed to continue. I only ask that it is civil. Thanks.
Ralph

By Jacob (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 03:17 pm:

WOW

By Jacob (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 11:21 pm:

Is this thread done

By David Meikle (81.130.211.124) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 04:07 am:

Thank you Ralph.

By stephanie (64.63.221.191) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 03:28 pm:

Attention Mr Barrett,

I have a lot of respect for what you did with the Three Degrees and what they have done for us as fans. I would like to say that whether or not Bobby Eli was a pup or an entertainment groupie or whatever he has proven himself as a great guitar player and songwriter. I think when a lot of musicians are young they are entertainment groupies anyway and I thank you for giving our Eli a chance in the business. If you are a tyrant or not I dont care but I hope that you would reconsider the way that you speak to our members on the forum. I think that you would have a lot to add and if anyone upset you Bobby ..RD or anyone for that matter I will apologize on their behalf here is why.

Without revealing too much we would like to hear your viewpoint about things that went on in the biz and your reactions and experiences. Im not asking you to reveal anything in your book just little things and be a part of our forum here. It is an honor having you here should you choose to stay and I would also like to say that I would be interested in hearing about your days with the Chantels. Things can get heated up on any message board but I think you should use the forum to dispel any myths or give an opinion about what was written about you in the history books. For us fans you can use the forum to set the record straight.

I think this would be a fine opportunity for us to get know the talented Richard Barrett and what his thoughts are we can exclude these arguments.
I understand you repsonding to people if you feel you have been wronged but I would LOVE to see you respond candidly and informatively.

Why dont you join the forum and answer our questions and if there is something that is asked that is too private then let us know. I would hate to think that some people (including myself) ticked you off and you wouldnt want to tell us your side of the story on happenings and music and all other things pertaining.....
Stephanie
An inquisitive music junkie...I hope I have not said anything to disrespect you.

By KevGo (64.115.26.80) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 03:43 pm:

Mr. & Mrs. Barrett:
First of all, welcome to Soulful Detroit. I say this to all newcomers to our Forum.
Second of all, as a New York City-based music executive who has studied the history of popular music from the past 50+ years, I'm curious to hear from you, Mr. Barrett, your history from your doo-wop years to the years managing the Three Degrees and beyond.
Third of all, please understand that when an executive runs a tight ship with everyone they come across - no matter the reason why the ship is run that way - that person may not be seen in a positive light because somewhere they rubbed someone the wrong way. Bobby Eli is a dear colleague of mine who may have been one of those folks (and he would be the last person I would want to rub the wrong way).
Your comments and contributions are definitely welcome here on the Forum.
Kevin Goins - KevGo

By Jacob (152.163.252.68) on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 10:41 pm:

I hope he responds

By Jacob (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 04:27 pm:

Has Eli been in this thread yet since last week

By Bill (81.79.93.59) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 03:52 pm:

Hi all,

Just to add that UK had a treat on Tuesday night when the "Plus" satelite channel showed a re-run of "At the Wheeltappers", a strange show from the early '70's, based in a North UK working mens club. First up were the Three Degrees, Val, Sheila and Fayette, singing "I like Being a Woman", a song I have never seen them sing live before!

Bill

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 07:03 pm:

Bill...I have seen that clip. Fay, Val, and Sheila sound good on that song live. Overall that is a good performance

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 12:18 am:

If there are any Japanese fans in the forum I saw on a Japanese website that the group is in Japan at the Bluenote Jazz Clubs

By dvdmike (65.208.234.61) on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 07:17 am:

If Mr. Barrett would care to respond. Do you remember the name of the reconditioned church where you produced "Maybe" by The Chantels?" And also, where did they cut "Look In My Eyes"?" Thank you. I always liked your music.

By Richard BarrettT.D.E.I (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:38 pm:

dvdmike, For the life of me I can't remember the name of the church. The only thing prevalent in my mind is the fact that on the recording date the church's pipe organ had been removed, which made me crazy as the church was due for demolition.
The answer to the second question "LOOK IN MY EYES" was recorded at Bell Sound Studios on 54th Street between 8th Ave and Broadway. Enginerred by, Al Weintraub. Written and produced by, yours truly.
Thank you

By Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (68.80.162.3) on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 09:57 pm:

nice to see my main man Richard on the forum,Richard is a Philly guy who went to New York and did BIG things in the music business,
WELDON

By dvdmike (68.72.165.135) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 12:48 am:

Thank you, Mr. Barrett for the quick response. Did you write the arrangement for "Look In My Eyes" as well? Don't mean to bug anyone, but I'm really deeply into this sort of thing. I have several databases full of this sort of technical information that might be useful to someone at sometime.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 09:53 pm:

Has anyone heard the Swan Recordings of The Three Degrees

By dvdmike (68.72.107.1) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 10:18 pm:

"Gee Baby, I'm Sorry" from '64 is the only Swan hit.

By motown_david (152.163.252.68) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 04:55 am:

There's a great cd which was issued in England in 1992, which is a complete collection of their Swan recordings.
Unsurprisingly, it's called "The Complete Swan Recordings". It's issued by Sequel(NEM CD 631).
It also contains Sheila Ferguson's solo material on Swan.
Not sure whether it's stil available.
Hope this helps.
David.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 12:25 pm:

That CD was Helen Scott, Fayette Pinkney, and Janet Harmon at their best at age 15. There harmony on "I'm Gonna Need You" is so beautiful. Helen did a lot of leads then. When she returned to the group in 1976 she was the soprano and it was right after PIR stuff so Sheila and Val were doing the leads.

By MEL&THEN SOME (217.14.178.17) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 01:32 pm:

Mr Barretts work speaks for itself.
great to have yet another icon on this forum.
mel(andthensome)

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 10:23 pm:

Any other Swan recording favorites or memories from anyone?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 09:25 pm:

Any memories of the Ariola Recordings with Gorgio Moroder?

By Bill (81.79.31.165) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 04:20 pm:

The "New Dimensions" album was issued in the UK in 1978. It contains the (UK) hits "Givin'up, Givin'in", which just got outside the top ten, "The Runner", (No.10), and "Woman in Love", (No.3). The first side is a non-stop sequence, starting with Givin'... and followed by two other tracks. Quite "punchy" lots of synth, etc. A big step from the PIR and Epic stuff. The album version of "The Runner" is a completley different sound to the 12" single release. The next album "3D" was released in late 1979, and only had one single which made any impact, "My Simple Heart", (this is not one of my favourites, but thats my opinion!). The first track, "Jump the Gun" is a hard hitting track, which probably is the furthest away from the "usual" Three Degree sound, which may be why it didn't do too well. A shame really, because it is quite a good song, with Val on lead. It leads directly into "Red Light", a move back to disco, (This I remember used to be the second song of their shows around this time). The next single release was "Starlight", a big orchestra ballad, with good lyrics and vocals, (again led by Val). Unfortunatley this and the next "Without you", didn't fare very well. I remember that the track "BodyCheck" did quite well in the US.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 07:15 am:

Starlight is actually one of my favorites. It has a Philly Neo Soul sound to it. I actually did like Red Light as well. THose were some of the best years for the girls. I saw an old tv clip of them performing Woman In Love and it was almost like they were perfect. They were really N-Sync vocally and in movement.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 11:08 pm:

Starlight is actually one of my favorites. It has a Philly Neo Soul sound to it. I actually did like Red Light as well. THose were some of the best years for the girls. I saw an old tv clip of them performing Woman In Love and it was almost like they were perfect. They were really N-Sync vocally and in movement.

By soulaholic (68.41.47.183) on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 11:41 pm:

Killer post sequence

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 06:34 pm:

I was just trying to keep the forum and posts going

By fayette (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 06:58 pm:

i didn't know who this richard person is, but
i'm sure we can learn a great deal from him.
but there is never a excuse to degrade
anybody on a forum.i welcome his knowledge
but find his mannerism tasteless.

By Lange (195.47.135.246) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 03:01 pm:

Hi!

Finding this forum and other Three Degrees fans on it is just great. I'm from Denmark and have never stumbled into other Three Degrees fans here, so I really enjoyed reading the previous messages from which I gained a lot of knowledge and a few of my questions got answered.

I was wondering if there is anyone out there who knows why Three Degrees didn't continue recording for the Ariola label after a string of successful singles as well as a few singles that weren't so successful?
I'm wondering if they decided to leave themselves because they wanted to be on their own or if Ariola wasn't interested in signing them again? I find it hard to understand if Ariola wans't interesed in re-signing them as they were such an successful act both on the stage as well as on the record. Can anyone help here?

Further more I just have to say that I have never come across a group who recorded such great live albums "Live In Japan" ('75), "Live" ('75)and the B-side of the "Gold" album. It's just pure magic. Hope that the label(s) in charge of these amazing live recordings will release them some day... A complete live recording from around '75 as well as the complete concert from RAH will be more than welcome. Never seen Three Degrees live on stage (only Sheila in "Oh! What A Night" earlier this year), but there is no doubt about that the live CD's from this period will do it for me. I find the LP "Live In The U.K." a little less interesting than the other live recordings. Anyone who knows how the tracking list for their concert at RAH '79 was and is there anyone who knows if "Do It" was part of their concerts?

Also I'll be interesed in getting in contact with other fans of Three Degrees, so please feel free to contact me.

Greetigs from Denmark.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 01:05 am:

That is a good question as to why they stopped recording. Those singles and albums were good. I believe that is when they were going thru problems with management. Don't quote me as the management was in the forum. Those live albums were good. I actually like "Live In The UK". Helen, Sheila, and Valerie did some nice arrangements on that album.

By Fury13 (12.2.196.17) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 12:07 pm:

Fayette,

You really might want to do a little research into just who the legendary Richard Barrett is. (Start looking up info the Valentines, Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers, the Chantels, etc., etc.) You might be a little surprised... and awed.

By fayette (152.163.252.68) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 08:45 pm:

fury no offense but somethings are better left
unknown

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 09:47 pm:

I agree on that one with you Fay.

By John Lester (217.40.208.43) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 08:20 am:

I loved the ladies' SAW stuff too. It was a shame that I only got to hear 2 songs. "The Heaven I Need was a wonderful track and I loved the video for that one.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 09:23 am:

John...They actually did 3 songs during their time with SAW. There was a song Sheila wrote called "Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie" that was on the B-side of "Heaven I Need" and of course the 3rd song was "This Is The HOuse". These were the last songs Sheila recorded with Helen and Valerie.

By John Lester (217.40.208.43) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 02:59 pm:

Is Gimme Gimme Gimme on CD somewhere?

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 04:58 pm:

No it is not on CD anywhere. Only people I know to have it are die hard THree Degree fans

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 10:37 am:

I saw the girls in the mid 1980's in concert at Wimbledon, London, but was disappointed because they did'nt sing a single Three Degrees song. The SAW period must have been soon after this, sorry I did'nt see them around then too. Never mind.

By mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 01:03 pm:

That does not sound like them. In the mid 80's they should have at least done some Ariola stuff like "My simple Heart", Giving Up Giving In, The Runner, and Woman In Love, and of course When will I see You Again. Between 82 and 84 Sheila wrote 2 singles for them. One was a ballad called "Sonnet To Love" from their Album Of Love and the 2nd single was "Liar".

By Bill (81.79.100.57) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 04:23 pm:

I saw them at Wimbledon, probably at the same concert as Stevie. The set they did was the concert recorded for "live in the UK", (The album was on sale at the shows). I think the lack of Philly did disapoint some people, When will I see you again was sung as a medoly with the Police's Every move you make. Of course I enjoyed it!

This was a definate move away from previous stuff, which (in my opinion), didn't really work. The SAW releases were far superior, and a great sound, which got quite good press in the Music mags of the time.

By oscar (68.86.253.3) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 11:20 pm:

Forum,

I first met Richard in the early ninety's in preparation for a music date in the far east. I had heard rumors that fit the description of the man that some in this forum have attested to. I remember bracing myself for the possibility of an abrasive encounter. However, I found that Richard is an intelligent, talented, strong and caring person. We have become very good friends and I value this friendship. He has depth of character and his attention to detail is very high. I have met many people past and present who have worked with Richard and hold him in high esteem. These are also folks that have good work ethics, intelligent and are people oriented. Now the trend that I have seen through the years is that those who have self esteem problems, lack high work ethics and or just don't really know the man have so many negative things to say. I am speaking experientially. On many occasions I have met folks in the industry who have run off with the mouth about Richard and Richard's personal business. They did not know that I knew him or perhaps that I may have just finished a conversation with him. Sometimes these folks would begin to says things that were absolute lies because they were not aware that I knew otherwise. This was ironic because these people were never close enough to really know those type of details. ...and some really knew nothing at all. I have spent much time with Richard and his family. I have seen him in good times and at challenging times and I can say that I have never seen him conduct himself in a manner that is any less than a gentleman. As for musicians who have played for him: ...I know and have met many fine musicians with great reputations that have said openly that they would play with Richard again with no hesitation. Now these are words and experiences from the "horses mouth" and not just hearsay.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 11:56 pm:

Bill,

The "Live in the UK" album was right before the SAW stuff as you know. I know people that commented on that tour you and Stevie saw and some of them liked it.

By fayette (205.188.209.109) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 04:56 am:

oscar i understand your loyalty, i don't know
richard never seen a photo of richard and
really don't think i want to know richard,based
on the way he carried himself in this forum.
we have different opinions but after reading
numerous threads, i have my first time to
see anyone dissing the way a person dress.
that was the most childish thing i ever seen.
so sometimes people treat you by the way you
carry yourself.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 06:33 am:

Thanks for the info Bill, my memory was of a complete lack of soul at the concert I saw of the girls at Wimbledon, however I do have recollections of them doing a good version of the Maze hit Joy & Pain. Was this on the Live in the UK album?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 09:52 am:

Stevie...

I think that song they did from Maze was "Love Is The Key" so from what I was told.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:10 am:

Mark,
Sheila was not at the Royal Wedding, she was in America heavily pregnant with twins at the time. (The royal scrounger Charlie must have had fun going all over the place following her at the concerts before this though). At least his bid for a bit of street cred meant that the Three Degrees did well in the publicity stakes. So did they record a Maze record?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:16 pm:

Mark,

They did not record it. It was in their live show at the time of the "Live In The UK" record that we spoke on before. I know Sheila was not at the wedding. Valerie and Helen attended the reception.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 01:58 pm:

I enjoyed the musical "Soul Train", it was a good celebration of a wonderful era of black music, & Sheila Ferguson is still very sexy! The rest of cast was pretty good as well. Has anybody seen "Oh What A Night"? How does it compare?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 10:38 pm:

I am not in the UK so I was not able to see any of Sheila's musicals.

By Eli (152.163.252.68) on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:33 pm:

When I was in London in July of '99 I attended Soul Train--The Musical, and I thoroughly enjoyeyd it!!!!!!

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 09:33 am:

Eli...Where ya been?

By Eli (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 11:48 am:

Ive been here all along, just about everywhere!!

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 11:57 am:

Me too. I was lurking for a little while before posting again too.

By John Lester (213.123.155.10) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 01:37 pm:

Oh dear Mark - wot a shame you are not in the UK!
Cos yo missed Shelia on TV the other day promoting a charity.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 12:04 pm:

John.Yeah it is a shame I am not in the UK. How was the show? What did she sing?

By john lester (213.123.142.133) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 01:47 pm:

She was just talking about a charity. I get the impression she spends a lot of time with charities.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 04:59 pm:

Ok...That is cool that she works on some charities

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 09:43 am:

What is anyone's most memorable Three Degrees performance?

By Julie (205.188.209.109) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 10:25 am:

Royal Albert Hall

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 11:33 am:

Can you tell us more about the show? Are you Julie (Barrett) that posted before in the forum.

By Lange (195.47.130.5) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 04:07 pm:

When thinking of live recordings with The Three Degrees from the period 1974 � 1980 I wonder how many that actually were released.

I know of the �Live In London�, �Live In Japan� LP�s and the B-side from the �Gold� album. Then there is the recording of �La Chanson Populaire� recorded in Paris. That exact track is one of my favourite live-recordings with The Three Degrees (it�s amazing) � it�s better than the version on �Live In Japan� (if you can put it that way, as the recording of the track on that album isn�t bad at all).

Wasn�t the live recording from Paris of �La Chanson Populaire� released as a single in France? And what about the B-side? I seem to remember that I once noticed that it was another live track from the Philly years. However I seem to remember that is was a track that wasn�t released on any of the two first live albums. I�ve never been able to find the single, so I�m not quite sure�

Is there any of you who knows of other recordings from that period that has been released in certain countries like on singles, maybe on a �Greatest Hits� album or promo releases. By other recordings I mean songs that wasn�t included on the live albums mentioned or versions of a track that was included on the mentioned live albums, but recorded at another concert in another country?

At the same time I was wondering if anyone can tell me if the disco version of �Do It � Use Your Mind� from the Japanese single release is much different from the original/album/single version?

By Bill (81.79.9.63) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 04:44 pm:

Mark,
Of the 9 Live concerts I have seen during the 80's and 90's, the most memorable was a charity gig the ladies did at the London Paladium, around 1981. I managed to get a single seat at the front of the theatre! I had seen the ladies 2 or 3 times before, but this time around the set was different, with songs such as "Free Ride" and "McArthur Park" included. The audience were all mainly linked to the charity, and were not necesserily fans, but at the end the whole theatre was up dancing. Great times....

By motown_david (195.93.50.10) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 06:04 pm:

Are the 3 Degrees touring England in August? My good mate Tom has just phoned me to say that he's booked the group for his blessing in Shrewsbury at that time?
Didn't know they did weddings, barbecues and bar-mitzvahs!!
David.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 11:48 pm:

Bill...When you saw the girls it was Helen, Sheila, and Val right? Tell us about the other 8 or 9 times.

Motown Dave...You need to check there website www.thethreedegrees.com for their tourdates.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 11:14 pm:

Bill...When you saw the girls it was Helen, Sheila, and Val right? Tell us about the other 8 or 9 times.

Motown Dave...You need to check there website www.thethreedegrees.com for their tourdates.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By MArk (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 04:46 pm:

Does anybody have the 1993 German CD "Out OF the Past Into The Future" with Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia?

By Julie (205.188.209.109) on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 08:01 pm:

Yes Mark this is Julie Barrett. That show was the most memorable to me, and I've seen many. The atmosphere was electric. Christopher Reeves was there..It really was fantastic, well actually all except for when the girls did their solo's Helen was off key and sour. The performance of Sheila and Valerie of course was remarkable so they made up for it.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 11:52 pm:

They are all 3 great voices and the Ariola years were great. I have heard from friends that it was 3 hours long but they on;y showed the Ariola singles on the broadcast when it was edited. No PHilly stuff. Helen, Sheila, and Valerie had a good blend and harmonies. Those were my favorite years. I love Starlight.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 05:50 am:

I fell in love with the girls (especially Sheila)when as a school boy I watched them sing When Will I See You Again. They are great performers but their later music does not compare to the class of the funky Philly days. I love Year Of Decision.

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 08:56 am:

I mean nothing will beat the Philly years. But Ariola was good too. It got them back on the charts. I mean I like the blend of Fay, Sheila, and Val as well as Helen, Sheila, and Val. Fay had that rich soprano, Helen had the light sweet soprano. Val was like a female Eddie Levert. Very soulful, rich, and powerful. Sheila of course had that straight Pop smoothness. To me either line-up was good. I mean when Fay left I think Helen was the right choice to bring back. It was not a big difference in the sound or harmonies.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 10:01 am:

The girls are great singers with their collective harmonising. I think Sheila's voice often shows fantastic dramatic tones. I was listening to some of the early recordings a few days ago, I love Sheila's "Little Red Riding Hood". The Philly period was magical because of Gamble & Huff's skills in linking funk/soul with pop. It was great to see their popularity rise in the late seventies early eighties but personally I think the songs became too pop, and not enough soul. I still wish I had seen them in the SAW period though.

By Lange (195.47.137.15) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 02:02 pm:

I have the Ariola CD from 1993 "Out Of The Past Into The Future" with Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia.
However I have never really been able to make my mind up about the CD.

I haven't played the CD for a long time. Think I'm gonna give it a try again tonight.

Mark what do you think of the CD?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 04:24 pm:

Lange...For it being 1993 and the times. I think the production and vocals are great on the new songs. I like "Emotional Thing", "Question Of Love", "Aint' No Woman". I actually like the updated version of "Dirty Ol Man" and the remixes they released. "Hurry Hurry" was released as a single...

By Rod (205.188.209.109) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 09:04 pm:

I love the eaarly and "Maybe" is my all time favorite. i would love to hear a live version of that song. Why did Fayette leave the group? I don't remember seeing a answer for her departure.
Anyone have videos of Fay,Val,& Sheila or with Helen?

By Eli (151.197.113.58) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 09:27 pm:

I actually played on Maybe and a song which I co wrote called Magic Mirror.
It was recorded at A&R studios on 48th st in NYC early in 1970.
It was produced by Richard Barrett and arranged by Hutch Davie, for Roulette records.

By MArk (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 09:54 am:

Rod...Fay left to pursue her education...At that time she was the original Degree going for 13 years straight. Then they called Helen to come back and she did. And she is still there...

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 12:53 pm:

The change of Helen replacing Fayette came in 1976

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 11:13 pm:

Lange...Did you listen to the CD?

Bill....Do you have any other memorable concerts...

By Bill (81.79.86.97) on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 03:30 pm:

Mark,

A bit rusty on dates, etc! but I first saw the group in 1980, just after seeing/meeting them at a fan club do in London. This concert was in Bournemouth, (South England), and started with the ladies singing a song called "Star Love" wearing the gold cape like dresses worn on the cover of the "gold" album. The set included songs from the Ariola albums, (They were promoting Starlight at the time). Highlight was the second half of the show with "Dear God". Val singing solo, until joined by Sheila and Helen. I saw them again that year at Wembley, with the same show. Next was the Paladium, already mentioned, then Wimbledon (around 1981), with a similar show. During 1982 the group played at the (then) new London Barbican Arts centre, promoted as the first "pop" act to play there. They were probably the last, as the ticket and organisation at the centre was a joke. The show was great, and included the "Fame" medely, which ended with When Will I see You again sung in Japanese. Highlight for me was the inclusion of "If and When". Due to the poor ticket sales of the first shows, (they did 2 a night), Fan Club members got in free for the 1st show on the following night, so obviously I went again! I then saw them at Wimbledon again, (mentioned earlier in the forum). This was during the period the group tried to change thier image, and included the single "Liar". This was the last show I saw with Sheila in the group. In 1989 I saw the group perform with Billy Paul and Harold Melvin in London. The group by then had Victoria Wallace in. The ladies sounded as good as ever, with Victoria sharing the lead on Woman in Love, and also included songs from thier album "And Holding...." However it did seem to lack something, the set was mixed up too much, with one song leading straight into another. The last time I saw them perform live was in 1997, at our Local lesuire centre. This show was with Sister Sledge and FLOS. The 3 Degrees were the main act, and I have to say it was a great show, nothing like the last I saw. Cynthia Garrison was now in the group, and the ladies all looked if they really enjoyed performing. Highlight was the song "dance little sister", which got everyone up. Keep trying to catch them, hopefully again soon! Bill

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 - 11:41 pm:

Those were some good years in the 80's...Helen, Sheila, and Val always sounded good on If and WHen even though Fay was on the record and not Helen...

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 11:05 am:

Bill....How do you mean the show in 1989 was mixed up. Did Victoria just share the lead on "Woman In Love". I would imagine that she did "Giving Up Giving In" too?

By Lange (195.47.137.72) on Saturday, August 02, 2003 - 05:23 pm:

Mark...

I have now managed to listen to the "Out Of The Past Into The Future" CD quite a few times now.

I'm still not really able to make up my mind. It's not because it's a bad CD. The voices are of course more than great. However I have never really been into when a group re-records their own songs. So that makes the fist part of the CD a bit difficult. The originals are better - no doubt about that. Anyway I have to say that I like the start of "T.S.O.P" with the "radio" sound then knicking into the updated verion. "Dirty Ol' Man" and "When Will I See You Again" actually also work quite well. Also I have to say that when comparing the re-recordings of the "old" tracks on this CD together with some of the other re-reacordings that Valerie, Helen & Cynthia have done, then the included recordings on "Out Of The Past..." are far better.

The last part of the CD with the new tracks also works, eventough there are a few tracks that not really are working in my ears - if you can put it that way. "I'm Through With Him" is a real good track together with "If You Don't Want My Love". "Give Me A Chance" is also quite good, I just don't like the rap parts in it.

I never really been able to figure out why a better cover wasn't made for the CD? I think the last picture in the booklet (the back side) contains a great photo of the girls, which would have done so much better on the front-cover.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 09:28 am:

Lange....

I like "Out Of The Past Into The Future". I think it is the best album Helen and Valerie did along with Cynthia since Sheila left. I like the rerecordings on "Out Of The Past Into The Future". If you get the Japanese release of that CD you get the new version of "Dirty Ol Man" 7 inch as a bonus track. They released it as a single with "Emotional Thing" which is a beautiful ballad that the girls all share lead on. Other tracks I like are "Question Of Love" and "Ain't No Woman". Helen has such a sweet soprano lead to "Question of Love" and she sounds great on "Ain't No Woman". Helen adds an innocence to "Take Good Care Of Yourself". Cynthia brings her soul to the same songs."Ain't No Woman", Emotional Thing, "Question Of Love", and the ending ad libs of "If You Don't Want My Love". The production and vocals are very perfected on this release.

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 03:26 pm:

Lange...Is the CD working on you anymore?
Bill....How do you mean the show in 1989 was mixed up. Did Victoria just share the lead on "Woman In Love". I would imagine that she did "Giving Up Giving In" too?

By rod (64.12.97.7) on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 08:52 pm:

has anyone heard the ladies sing "Maybe" Live

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 09:24 am:

I have heard a tape of Helen, Valerie, and Cynthia performing Maybe in 1992 on a BBC radio broadcast when they were on tour with The Temptations. They did it at the end of Medley of hits and they did it in its entirety.

By Stevie (213.86.59.100) on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 09:12 am:

There is good news for us English fans, since Sheila Ferguson split with her husband and her daughters have grown up - the lady is everywhere! She's in the musical "Oh What A Night", been in a show with Madelaine Bell & Ruby Turner and soon will be appearing in "Thorughly Modern Millie". Great stuff.

By Rod (205.188.209.109) on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 11:03 pm:

Are ther any songs By the 3 Degrees with Fayette on lead vocal? Who sings lead to "If & When"?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 09:04 am:

Fayette sang lead on "Souvenirs to Souvenirs" on the "Toast Of Love" album. She had half a verse on "Lonelier Are Fools" also. There may be some songs in the Roulette Years. I cannot think of them now. Also she had a part on "Contact".

By Rod (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 11:54 pm:

What verse Fayette sings on "Lonelier are Fools"
Also who sings the lead to "If & When?. I have the Roulette years cd, so if can come up with those leads I would greatly appreciate it. I want to know what she sounds like as a lead vocalist. I like what she did on "Everybody gets to go to the Moon" and Her adlibs on the Live LP on "Year of Decision. She also had a verse on "Livin For the City" I like it when girl-groups show case all the voices in the group ie. (EnVogue)

By John Lester (81.132.34.217) on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 01:36 am:

I feel a bit sad for Mark what with Shelia doing so much over here in the UK. Mark, maybe you ought to move to the UK!!

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 09:49 am:

Rod...Sheila sings the lead on "If and When" on the verses but the breakdown and vamp ad-libs are Valerie. John I should move to the UK. I just try to find Three Degrees fans and the real die hard fans are hard to find. One's that collect everything they do such as video.

By Rod (64.12.97.7) on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 02:19 pm:

Thanks Mark. I'm like you I would love to see them live or just have video of the ladies. All I have is there cameo in the French Connection. Is anyone reading into this, Mark and I want video footage PLEASE HELP US OUT (SMILE)

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 10:59 pm:

Rod....They do not surface...I have been looking for years...

By gordy (62.64.141.113) on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 07:27 am:

Can anyone help........does anyone have a copy for sale or a tape of Fayette Pinkneys album?

By Mark (152.163.252.68) on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 09:49 am:

I do not have the CD..

By Mark (205.188.209.109) on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 10:31 am:

Does anyone like the Swan recordings? Any memories or favorite songs?

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170) on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 10:33 am:

Mark - Driving me mad (not you!!). I think that was a special sound.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Friday, August 22, 2003 - 01:00 pm:

Carl....What is great about The Three Degrees is that you hear their growth throughout their 40 year career. Although they had a revolving personnell line-up you still hear each valid member (Helen, Fayette, Sheila, and Valerie) voice grow thru time. And on the Swan recordings I like the harmony of "I'm Gonna Need You" and its pretty to hear a young Helen Scott on the original Three Degrees version of "Maybe" even though it sounds bossa nove like. She still has that same sweet sound. I do not like the orignal version of "Gee Baby" although I liked it in the 70's on Standing Up For Love when Sheila, Helen, and Valerie updated it. But the Swan years were great harmonies of and songs with Helen, Fayette, and Janet Harmon.

By MArk (205.188.200.49) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 09:45 am:

Carl....What is great about The Three Degrees is that you hear their growth throughout their 40 year career. Although they had a revolving personnell line-up you still hear each valid member (Helen, Fayette, Sheila, and Valerie) voice grow thru time. And on the Swan recordings I like the harmony of "I'm Gonna Need You" and its pretty to hear a young Helen Scott on the original Three Degrees version of "Maybe" even though it sounds bossa nove like. She still has that same sweet sound. I do not like the orignal version of "Gee Baby" although I liked it in the 70's on Standing Up For Love when Sheila, Helen, and Valerie updated it. But the Swan years were great harmonies of and songs with Helen, Fayette, and Janet Harmon.

By motown_david (195.93.34.9) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 01:42 pm:

On Saturday night in a castle near Shrewsbury in England, we attended the blessing ceremony of 2 of our dearest friends.
At 9 pm the 3 Degrees came on to entertain all 90 guests for 45 minutes and boy, did they entertain!
I'd never seen Val, Helen and Cynthia perform before but they knocked my socks off throughout. They started the show with Higher and Higher, performed all the hits you would expect and also did an interesting Philly medley, which had us all yelling and shouting for more.
This group is highly recommended!
David.

By Mark (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 02:04 pm:

Dave,

That is there arrangement of Jackie Wilson "Your Love keeps Lifting Me Higher" going into Diana Ross "Take Me Higher"...There Philly medley is a tribute to their fellow Philadelphia artist and it is a nice medley..They do "The Love I Lost", Aint' No Stopping Us Now, if You don't know me by now, Together(which they did record a version of), Disco Inferno, Love train, and TSOP.