| Author | Message | ||
  Mel (melmo) 1-Arriviste Username: melmo Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
Has ayone seen and/or preferably heard the following which are included in various discographies but as yet I have never seen for sale on any Web site. Gordy -7091 -Terry Johnson -My Springtime - 1969 Mowest -5023 -The Devastating Affair -Where Do You Go Baby (The Eddie Kendricks and Eric and the Vikings song) 1972 Motown 1260 -Thelma Houston -Do You Know Where Your Going To -1973 (I know that this was pulled to make way for a Diana Ross version for her Mahogany Soundtrack) but it is curious that Thelmas version has never appeared on any compiliation. Also does anyone know anything about the following groups The Nu Page who had one single on Mowest Third Creation who had one single on Motown and another single cancelled Stacie Johnson who had one single on Mowest 1972 Woman in my eyes/Carbon Copy cancelled only to be transferred to Motown in 1973 Woman in my eyes as the A side with a different B side - Every Little Bit Hurts- Although I have Woman In My Eyes it is a demo and I have never seen or heard of the single being released with Every Little Bit Hurts on the B side was it only ever issued as a demo -Was she to have been another Michael Jackson -she was obviously very young when she recorded the single. What went wrong there ? There were no further releases Zell Black who had one motown release and a couple scheduled and cancelled. Thanks Melmo Never Never Never Changed One Single Grain Of Sand | ||
Mel (melmo) 1-Arriviste Username: melmo Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
I think that the fact that this post has not been answered confirms my suspicions that these singles have never seen the light of day. perhaps they were a figment of someones imagination ? Melmo | ||
Reese (reese) 1-Arriviste Username: reese Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 12.15.169.238 |
I don't think Thelma Houston's version of DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO was ever finished. In the book MOTOWN: THE HISTORY, Thelma talks about it a little. | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 3-Pundit Username: robb_k Post Number: 52 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 204.108.65.10 |
Just like the phantom Miracle and Tamla, Motown and Gordy songs that have never been seen pressed (even in The Motown Company and Jobete Music Record files, they were originally scheduled for recording; but either were recorded, then cancelled before release, or cancelled even before recording (as Andre Williams' Miracle 4). We have seen that The Frank Wilson was pressed up (at least 6-according to Ron Murphy(I've seen 2 of them)) So, perhaps Berry had at least a DJ box of 25 made up for ALL the missing numbers. But I really doubt that. Chances are greater that NONE were pressed up for many of the missing numbers. | ||
Lars (lg_nilsson) 1-Arriviste Username: lg_nilsson Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 213.112.151.228 |
Melmo, I have that Stacie Johnson single with �Every Little Bit Hurts� on the B-side. It was quite hard to scan and squeeze it under 50k� but here it is.  I have got the Nu Page, Zell Black and Third Creation singles. The others you mentioned are not released. Lars | ||
John Lester (theboyfromxtown) 1-Arriviste Username: theboyfromxtown Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.44.165.234 |
Melmo Let me be honest with you and tell you now that whenever I have responded to any of your inquisitive posts on the Motown Bulletin Board, you never seem to show any appreciation for my efforts. So now I have stopped responding. Maybe that is why people have not responded to your posts and not for the reasons you suggest. | ||
Mel (melmo) 1-Arriviste Username: melmo Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
John I must apologise if I have offended you in any way . I am very grateful for the positive and speedy responses to the various questions that I have posed over the past years on the Motown Bulletin Boards and on the Soulful Detroit Message site. I stand corrected and will ensure that I will thank all who respond to my questions in the future. I have been amazed at the knowledge that many of you have about Motown and appreciate your help and guidance on the subject. Message to Lars are there any Motown(V.I.P. Soul,Gordy etc etc) singles up to 1986 that you have not got in your collection if there are please advise and I might? be able to help you. Thanks to everyone who has provided me with information over the past 2 years Melmo | ||
Lars (lg_nilsson) 1-Arriviste Username: lg_nilsson Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 213.112.150.210 |
Melmo, If you or anybody else here have info about any of these records... let me know... VIP 25005, 25010, 25014, 25015 and 25048. Tamla 54062 and 54084 Gordy 7210 MoWest 5010, 5024 and 5049 Motown 1017, 1232, 1266, 1273, 1299, 1348, 1509, 1638, 1640, 1686, 1740, 1751, 1753, 1764, 1783, 1809, 1821, 1823, 1841, 1847, 1849, 1861, 1917 and 1932 Info about all others are found at my website http://www.seabear.se/ Give me your mail address and I'll send you my want list... Many thanks Lars | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 4-Laureate Username: robb_k Post Number: 71 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.81.181.65 |
Lars: I got Motown label 45 discographies made up from the Catalogue list at Motown in the early 1970s. I have The Dalton Boys listed for VIP 25010, but no song titles. I don't know what that is worth. From that same list, I have for Tamla 54062: Bob Kayli-"Hold On Pearl"/"Toodle Loo". The record was originally scheduled to be released on Tamla (as had the few most recent Kaylis), but it was switched over to Gordy for its release. The number was never used. That situation also occurred with The Serenaders single, moved from Motown 1046 to VIP, and several others (Isley Bros. moved from VIP to Tamla, etc., etc.) Often, the number then went unused. | ||
Lars (lg_nilsson) 1-Arriviste Username: lg_nilsson Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 212.247.9.242 |
Many thanks for the info Robb! Lars | ||
Mel (melmo) 1-Arriviste Username: melmo Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
lars I have the following for some of your missing numbers V.I.P. I believe that 25033 was scheduled to have been -The Minah Birds -It my time/Its my turn to cry or Go on and cry NR I have been informed over the years by various people and from various sources that the following might have been scheduled and cancelled for the V.I.P. label Parliament -I Misjudged You Hattie Littles -Conscience, Im Guilty/You Got Me Worried Rick Robin and Him, -Copper Kettle R Dean Taylor -Stay Away From That Beetle Bug and possibly Chris Clark -Do I Love You might have been scheduled for V.I.P. 25034 ? -it is known that number had been scheduled for the Velvs these things keep me loving you but it was cancelled. Tamla - 54062 just might have been scheduled for Marvin Gaye -Masquerade/Witchcraft ?, but it could have been for Bob Kayli . Motown -1638 -Bill Cosby -Just The Slew Of Us/Put A Little Punk In Your Funk M 1638 -Smokey Robinson - Greatest Hits Medley/The Only Game In Town M1686 -Gene Van Buren -When Is My Turn/Inst M 1740 -Kidd Glove -Killer Instinct/Hellzarockin M1751 - Willie Hutch -Shes Making A Game Out Of Love/no B side scheduled M1764 - Bobby KIng - Midnight Shine/Aint Never Met A Woman Like You M1809 -Nick Jameson - Gonna Hold You Tight/Casco Bay (Inst) M1847 -Maureen Steele - One More Saturday Night/Rock My Heart M1849 - Alfie - That Look/ b side not selected M1861 - Stevie Wonder - Spiritual Walkers/inst Whilst I do not have the artist for M 1932 I do have most of the artists from then on up to 2007 and some others beyond. Happy Hunting Melmo PS Will E-mail you off board and you can send me your Wants List -Likewise I will send mine to you. | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 4-Laureate Username: robb_k Post Number: 82 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.81.195.45 |
Mel, the listing I saw with Bob Kayli scheduled for Tamla 54062 was an official Motown, in-house listing of the catalogue numbers. It MUST have been scheduled for that number, at least at one time. As far as Marvin Gaye's Masquerade/Witchcraft,-I saw an actual Tamla commercial pressing of that with ZTSC number, which was definately pressed at Columbia's Terre Haute pressing plant in the sixties, as I saw the record in the mid sixties. It had NO Tamla catalogue number!!! But, it was DEFINATELY a real Motown pressing-impossible to be a bootleg. It was in a collector colleague's collection. I believe it was John Raino's collection. He was the brother of a DJ at San Francisco's KDIA in the '60s. The ZTSC number indicated that if it HAD been issued with a catalogue number, it would have fallen in the early to mid 54050's (earlier than 54062). The acetate of Chris Clark's "Do I Love You" listed VIP 25034 on the label (hand written). There's no reason to believe it WASN'T scheduled, at least at one time, for that issue. it's possible that when it was withdrawn, The Velvelettes' songs were later scheduled for that open number. That had been done more than once at Motown. However, I thought I remember seeing "These Things Will Keep Me Loving You" scheduled for an earlier (lower) VIP number. Was Hattie Littles' "You Got Me Worried" actually scheduled for VIP? I thought she was already gone from Motown after the first few numbers of VIP were issued? I thought I remember that record being scheduled for Gordy? | ||
Jimmy Mack (luke) 3-Pundit Username: luke Post Number: 63 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.198.48.201 |
Was Chris Clark's Do I Love U the same song as the Ronettes had done or something else? | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 4-Laureate Username: robb_k Post Number: 84 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.81.21.194 |
It was a completely different song. It was "Do I Love You (Indeed I Do)", which was also sung by it's writer, Frank Wilson, on Soul 35019. | ||
Flynny (anoraks_corner) 2-Debutant Username: anoraks_corner Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 213.122.37.145 |
I've had the Marvin Gaye 45 on Tamla...and Robb's correct in stating that it has no release number on the label...it also states, 'Single not available extracted from the album (TM-221)', and it also spells his name as 'Gay'. | ||
Mel (melmo) 1-Arriviste Username: melmo Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
Thanks for the information Yes I too was surprised about the Hattie Littles track . Perhaps you can through a little light on the following Tamla - 54108 -Scheduled for Stevie Wonder - Pretty Little Angel/Tears In Vain but not released, was Gino Parks - Same Thing Will Happen To You/Thats No Lie , scheduled in its place but not released ? T 54227 was scheduled for The Courtship - Love Aint Love Till You Give It To Somebody/Ooops It Just Slipped Out but not released - I think that the songs came out on Glades instead, was anything scheduled for that number in its place ? T 54233 -Stevie Wonder - Higher Ground, was this number originally scheduled for The Third Creation -Rolling Down A Mountain side -I know that this track ended up on Motown -1250 ? Was Tamla -54272 -Smokey -An Old Fashioned Man/Thelma Houston - One Out Of Evey Six -which was never released also scheduled for the Miracles - Take It All ? M 1046 scheduled for the Serenaders - If Your Heart Says Yes (Transferred to V.I.P.) -was it then scheduled for Amos Milburn - My Daily Prayer/Ill Make It Up To You Somehow ? -If So Was It ever Released ? M 1079 -Supremes -The Only Time Im Happy/Supremes Interview -Promo Only, was Little Lisa -Because I Love Him scheduled in to that number ? But not released ? M1168 -Scheduled for Blinky - How You Gonna Keep It/This Time Last Sunmmer - not released, was it replaced with the Ding Dongs ?Gimme Dat Ding ? M 1285 -released as Charlene Duncan -All That Love Went To Waste/Give It One More Try -was it to have been the Originals - Supernatural Voodoo Woman ? which ended up on Soul 35112 ? Was M 1391 - Supremes - Im Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking originally scheduled to have been Leslie Uggams - I Want To Make It Easy For You / which came out on Gordy - 7149 ? M 1457 -scheduled for Commadores Say Yeah but not released, was this number also scheduled for Motown Sounds -Space Dance ? Was If I Was Your Woman to have been scheduled for Bettye Lavette on Motown but never allocated a number ? Gordy 7151 was scheduled for the Tempts - Ill Take You In/Let Me Count The Ways I Love You, but not released was that number also scheduled for Tempts Who Are You Promotional Only ? Soul 35007 - The Merced Blue Notes -Thompin ? Was this ever scheduled for Soul -I believe it actually came out on another non Motown related label ? Soul 35101 - Bob Babbit - Gospel Truth/Run Like A Rabbit I believe was actually recorded but never released -has anyone ever heard the tracks ? Soul 35112 Originals -Supernatural Voo Doo Woman , was this number originally scheduled for Edwin Starr -Aint It Hell Up In Harlem - which was transferred to M 1284 ? Thanks for all the help Melmo | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 4-Laureate Username: robb_k Post Number: 86 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.81.194.139 |
Mel, I saw "Thompin'" listed as the other side of "Do The Pig" scheduled for Soul 35007 on an in-house list at Motown in the early 1970s. It must have been scheduled at least at one time. I believe it WAS recorded. I don't remember seeing a pressing of it in the Jobete Music file in 1979, but already at that time, the Frank Wilson 35019 had been "removed" (lifted). I'm guessing that it WAS pressed up, at least to the extent the Frank Wilson was (Ron's guess of 6 copies). I was told they never press up less than a DJ box of 25. Maybe Berry Gordy got a bunch(kept 19), and the remaining 6 copies went to the Company and Jobete record files, as well as a few family members in the offices (while some of Berry's 19 went to family members to keep at home?). The Amos Milburn was definately NOT released comercially. Tamla 54108, "Pretty Little Angel" by Little Stevie Wonder, was, I believe, originally scheduled; but then, held back. It should have been printed as a "globed" Tamla. Later, some file copies were pressed, but on the newer label design. I don't believe any were issued comercially. Gino Parks' "Same Thing"/"That's No Lie" was issued commercially as Tamla 54042, and had decent Midwest sales. But, I find it unbelievable that Motown would have considered re-releasing it in 1964. There just wasn't any market for Gino's semi-bluesy style, then. | ||
Flynny (anoraks_corner) 2-Debutant Username: anoraks_corner Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.131.243.60 |
Here's another interesting Motown 7"...pressed in the US for the UK fan club:   | ||
Ron Murphy (ron_murphy) 2-Debutant Username: ron_murphy Post Number: 21 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.90.140 |
just a note about what the former supervisor of American Record Pressing told me when I drove to Owosso to buy a box of Motown records he had saved...he said because Motown made so many re-cuts before a final approval of a general promotional pressing, they would press only 6 copies and keep 3 on file and send the other 3 to Motown, then once they got the ok then they would press however many promos and/or stock copies were needed... in that box of records was the Frank Wilson along with about 100 other test poressings of which were remixes, sides that had different tracks and missing numbers like the Chris Clark "Do I Love You" on V.I.P. 25034. in 1990 Martin Koppel was in town and Tim Brown was over from England, at that time everyone said Brown and myself had the only copies of the Frank Wilson record and Brown had got his from Simon Soussan who got a Motown employee to "lift" it from their filing cabinet...now Koppell got mine when he purchased my collection, I know he intended on keeping it until he was made an unbelieveable offer for it . so anyway I still believe if the pressing plant got no furher approval then no more than the first test press of 6 was made, and I fornot to mention that the supervisor I got the box from was told to put all those "old" records in the garage, but he decided to save 1 of the 3 copies for his self, so if his story is correct that leaves only the other 2 copies that were sent down to Motown unaccounted for. | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 4-Laureate Username: robb_k Post Number: 90 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.81.30.66 |
Thanks for the clarification, Ron. So, for many of the "missing" records, there WERE only 6 pressed. As far as the 3 copies sent to Motown, I know that one was put in the Motown Company Record File, and one was put in The Jobete Music Record File. Did the third copy go to Berry Gordy? | ||
Ron Murphy (ron_murphy) 2-Debutant Username: ron_murphy Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.90.140 |
Hi Robb; My guess would be a copy went for listening by BG and the Quality Control panel, and ARP by 1964 did their record plating and label printing so it was Motown's prime source for manufacturing intial promos until a record broke, unless it was a big artist then of course they might start it at other plants as well. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 5-Doyen Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 235 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Good afternoon all! You guys are deep! I've never heard of most of the songs that you guys are speaking of, much less heard them. You guys are amazing! The only feeble bit of info that I can contribute is that The Mynah Byrds material was recorded in 1968 & featured a young Rick James & Neil Young. Has anyone heard any rumblings about this material possibly being released? Thanks! Juice | ||
Flynny (anoraks_corner) 2-Debutant Username: anoraks_corner Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.135.13.89 |
Thanks for the info Ron...here's an ARP test press for the Vandellas 'Show me the way'...great track given a new lease of life on the coat-tails of J.J.Barnes' 'Tell me the truth' currently getting UK turntable action.  | ||
Joe Moorehouse (joe_moorehouse) 1-Arriviste Username: joe_moorehouse Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.138 |
Ron, I have reason to believe that one of the other copies of Frank Wilson was thrown away--along with a significant cache of additional early Motown 45s--about two years ago. The records had belonged to a Motown employee, who passed them on to relatives in 1968. They had them until the husband passed away and the wife moved from her home to an apartment in a retirement community. Because her new quarters were so much smaller, she simply set the records at the curb on garbage day, and they are now presumably in a landfill. It's enough to make me rent some earthmoving equipment and start digging. | ||
Ron Murphy (ron_murphy) 2-Debutant Username: ron_murphy Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.90.140 |
Joe: well it's a good thing that most people don't do that, because there would be very few records for us to find...I've found over the years that people save records because they figure even if they don't want them that somebody else can use them.(thank God) | ||
Lady Mystique (ladymystique) 5-Doyen Username: ladymystique Post Number: 195 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 66.33.227.122 |
Juice...regarding the Mynah Birds, according to the Motown Boards, there are no plans to release it. Hopefully that would change as I am a HUGE fan of Rick James.  | ||
Mel (melmo) 1-Arriviste Username: melmo Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
Thanks to everyone for all that info Can anyone verify was Thompin by the Merced Ble Notes (originally scheduled for the Soul label in 1965 the same song that appeared on Galaxy 738 also in 1965 or was it a re -recording ? Thanks Melmo | ||
Mel (melmo) 1-Arriviste Username: melmo Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.93.33.10 |
I know of one person who says that they have heard the Terry Johnson song My Springtime he said that it was not as good as the next single Whatcha Gonna Do Melmo | ||
Lars Nilsson (lg_nilsson) 1-Arriviste Username: lg_nilsson Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 212.247.9.242 |
Many thanks Melmo and everybody else for all info about the "missing" numbers. My Internet has been down for almost a week. Hope it will work from now on. Yes, Tamla 54227 was released on Glades 1710. Lars | ||
GrahamD (grahamd) 2-Debutant Username: grahamd Post Number: 19 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 62.254.0.32 |
Here's Marvins Rare interview 45!  | ||
GrahamD (grahamd) 2-Debutant Username: grahamd Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 62.254.0.32 |
And the B side.  | ||
Lars Nilsson (lg_nilsson) 2-Debutant Username: lg_nilsson Post Number: 11 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 213.112.150.203 |
I have the Mynah Byrds listed as a VIP single that was supposed to be released around March 1966. V.I.P. 25033A Mynah Birds "It's My Time" b/w "Go On And Cry" Lars | ||
Flynny (anoraks_corner) 3-Pundit Username: anoraks_corner Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 213.122.149.154 |
Keeping with the label scans...The Supremes:  ...and...question for Ron...you say that ARP made x6 copies of each Motown 45...would these all be finished label (promo) copies, or on their generic plain label ARP ones at that stage? Seems strange to make test presses with finished labels if the cutomer regularly changed their minds/details? | ||
Ron Murphy (ron_murphy) 2-Debutant Username: ron_murphy Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.42.90.140 |
hi Flynny:most test presses were made with the white ARP label but I've had some using stock labels with "promo" noted ,since they did labels right down the street it wasn't much trouble to change just the master number in most of those cases, sometimes ARP would take chances, for example the first record we did up there in 1966 ,we pressed up 1000 to start with then when we started to get orders on it I called ARP up and ordered 4000 more but said I want to make one change on the label, she said let me check something....she came back and said could you take 3000 with the label change and 1000 the old way, because we pressed an extra 1000 when you first odered because we knew it would be a hit, so they did some funny things for sure. but remember the story about doing the 6 test copies came from a supervisor that worked there, however I believe his story because he told me other things that I knew about and so other things made sense. | ||
Flynny (anoraks_corner) 3-Pundit Username: anoraks_corner Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 81.135.130.130 |
Thanks for the answer, Ron...I'm sure that label manufacturers have many a tale to tell, that would help shed light on releases with differing label variants etc...we've got a thread running on raresoulforum.co.uk discussing discs with the same label, but actually are different takes in the grooves! |
