By McCal (66.32.110.169 - 66.32.110.169) on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 06:55 pm:

Can anyone give me info on how the great Motown bass sound was achieved? I know some(if not all) of it was recorded direct. I wanted to know how much of it was attributed to amplifiers.

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 07:00 pm:

McCal,

there were no amplifiers. It was all direct.
Bob Ohllson, former Motown super engineer, pointed out on another thread that virtually nothing was done to alter the bass sounds of either Jamerson or Babbitt. It all came from their fingers pal.

By McCal (216.130.152.50 - 216.130.152.50) on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 11:22 pm:

So it was straight into the board? You always hear people refer to the Ampeg B-15 as giving that "Motown" bass sound. I know that Jamerson used a B-15 and was photo'd with it, I just didn't know if he used it to record with.

By BOB BABBITT (152.163.206.177 - 152.163.206.177) on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 07:11 am:

HEY MO-FU�S...JAMERSON AND I BOTH HAD........

"FAT FINGER�S�

ALONG WITH SOME OF THE GREATEST ENGINEERS AND STUDIOS IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BELIEVE ME WHEN I MOVED TO THE EAST COAST I HAD A HELL OF A TIME GETTING A BASS SOUND, EVEN TO THE POINT THAT I HAD TO BUY A NEW P-BASS............
AND I KNOW JAMERSON HAD PROBLEMS ON THE WEST COAST..MORE INFO ON ORIGINAL BOB BABBITT THREAD..
BOB BABBITT

By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 03:51 pm:

This was because:

1. most early commercial direct boxes were incredibly bad and couldn't handle the level. The home brew ones from five years earlier that most major studios used didn't have that problem.

2. A lot of engineers run on auto-pilot and start turning knobs before they listen. In their defense, I have to admit that I about had a heart attack the first time I tried to record a bass player OTHER than James or Bob. If you just did what you really need to do for many bass players the results wouldn't be very good on a great player.

3. Because everybody was hearing themselves from the same speaker, you probably HAD to develop a great touch to sound decent to yourself.

4. None of us had a clue about how great we and the studios in Detroit were.

5. A great bass player MAKES a great vocal happen while a mediocre one limits the singer. The bass player is like a pilot keeping the ship away from the rocks. It doesn't draw attention to its self but it's a great big pain when there's nothing wrong with a bass but nothing right about it either.

By Eli (170.115.179.117 - 170.115.179.117) on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 04:48 pm:

The same applied to Ronnie Baker in Philly. It was his incredible touch coupled with one of the tightest rhythm sections on the planet!!
He played a P-bass with dead la bella flat wounds.
Sometimes the B 15 was miked at a low level for more "roundness" if a producer wanted it, but usualy just direct.
Also listen to the Al Green records out of Memphis. Pure unadulterated bass!!
I believe that bas was miked though.

By Eli (170.115.179.117 - 170.115.179.117) on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 07:30 pm:

In my opinion, an engineers nightmare would have to be "popping" bass styles made famous by Larry Graham and Stanley Clarke. One would have to use much compression or limiting to round off the peaks, and sometimes only manual fader rides could accomplish this. I am glad the eighties are no more.BLECCCHH!!!!

By Ed Wolfrum (165.247.228.99 - 165.247.228.99) on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 08:05 pm:

The very FIRST direct box, at least in Detroit where I believe it started,(CIRCA 1960 or so - this was BM - before Motown) was built by Harvey Dodge, an engineer at United. It used a rather small matching transformer and was used on the Del Shannon sessions and the Eddie Holland and other early Motown sessions that Motown did at United. The sound was really started at United with Joe Siracuse, Jimmy's son who did Berry's first sessions.

This "good idea" was copied and improved on by Mike McLain and the Motown engineering department, of which I was a small part of in 1965-66 and freelanced for till the 70's. Motown engineering built the monitoring instrument input box you see in the museum studio today. It used a 15 inch Altec 600 series driver with a Mac-60 power amp and custom built electronics with 12AX7's and BIG UTC transformers. I later designed and built a solid atate version for Theme Productions (also called BA Starr studios.) Wingate used that studio often. Babbitt can tell you about that place. I have a shot of Babbit, Dennis Coffee and Don Davis working there in the late 60's for Wingate and plugged into that box. Later, I built a bunch of switchable high and low level (instrument) level direct boxes in BUD BOXES with BIG Triad transformers, purchased surplus, which I sold to numerous studio around Detroit. This helped finance school for me. Artie Field purchased a bunch of them and I think Ralph bought a few and so did Danny Dallas. I still have two of them. In any case, I will again reiterate what Bob said earlier. With players like Jamison and Babbitt it was easy to get a good bass sound with a good quality direct box with lots of IRON in the transformer. It simply reproduced what they did. The other trick, if you want to call it that, was the bullet proof front ends of all of the Detroit home brew consoles. Motown used a home brew tube design by Mike at the time, as well as Altec 1567 pre-mixers. Les Cooley designed the very first (Class A- even before Neve)microphone pre-amp for the United board which also was bullet proof, and Terra Shima had a variation of that circuit built for Milan by Bill Beltz and myself. By personal measurement the United Sound board clipped at +28 terminated to a 600 ohm load. (HEADROOM GALORE)
This, we needed because of producers who wanted to wrap the needle around the pin!!!

By Eli (170.115.179.117 - 170.115.179.117) on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 03:32 pm:

Seemed like an early version of my "electronic scrotum" that actually did something!!
I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall at some of those early sessions.
I may try to build a "metal shop" board as in Motown studio A. I would love to recreate the ambiance. It's a shame that you cannot recreate the Funk Brothers. Just once in a lifetime!!

By Loveuali (205.185.237.132 - 205.185.237.132) on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 07:19 pm:

I just stopped to say "hello" to the masters and the scholars of the Motown Sound. It is a pleasure which makes me breathless, to read the posts from the masters and those who likewise enjoy their music.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 07:50 pm:

Hi "L"

Good to see you here. 'nuff said! ;o)

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 08:19 pm:

the pleasure is all ours L. Welcome to the forum.

By Rich (162.33.235.241 - 162.33.235.241) on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 12:30 pm:

The most incredible neck breaking (as in turning too quickly toward the speaker) bass sound I ever heard came from The Commodores "I Feel Sanctified" in 1974. Even more incredible than Sly & Larry Graham's "Thank-You...". An absolutely stunning combination of sound & style. I know the style belonged to Billy Bass, but I don't know who was responsible for the sound. Jeffrey Bowen was the producer, so I'm thinking that the studio or mix engineers had a lot to do with the sound. Billy introduces himself with that rolling bass sound which he'd used at the end of Chairman of the Boards "Finders Keepers" (on the LP). I heard the same roll at the beginning of Mike Theodore's "The Bull" and asked Mike about it and he graciously told me that it was Eddie Watkins. Eddie & Billy both played on Alton McClain & Destiny's first album in '78. Billy played on the hit "It Must Be Love". Larry Graham probably initiated the beginning of the snap & pop style but I don't think it was ever given the same sonic sound that Billy's bass was given on Sanctified or the Temps Happy People, Shakey Ground, Glass House or Up the Creek. Gotta give the engineers their propers.

By BassLand (63.207.60.155 - 63.207.60.155) on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 02:57 pm:

Hi Soulful Detroit,

This is my kinda subject. I am the guy who has a website up for James Jamerson (http://bassland.net/jamerson.html) and a fellow bassist. I get mail all the time regarding bass lines on particular records. Most end up being about Jamerson but there are plenty of Bob Babbitt and some Wilton Felder, Tony Newton etc lines mentioned. I have a question regarding who played bass on "Poppa Was A Rolling Stone" by the Temptations. I believe that line to be Jamerson but it ws so different than his usual style (ie: the same line repeated with little or no variation and lots of space between phrases). I was wondering what the collective wisdom and wealth of Motown knowlege here would have to say on this subject?

There is a page on my site called Jamerson's greatest hits at:

http://bassland.net/jamersonhits.htm

Please feel free to comment on anything you see there. Thanks in advance

BassLand (aka Bob Lee)

By Rich (162.33.234.145 - 162.33.234.145) on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 05:45 pm:

Hey Bob, I was told by someone who worked for Jobete in LA in the 70's that the bass & guitar on the Temps version of "Papa ..." was played by twin brothers, but she didn't have a name to put with them. The line is another matter. Mommy What's a Funkadelic (written by Eddie Hazel & Billy Bass in '68 but played on the Funkadelic session by Bob Babbit in '69) morphed into you the Undisputed Truth's "You Make Your Own Heaven or Hell" by the Undisputed Truth (probably with Billy & Eddie on the session) which was produced by Funkadelic fan Norman Whitfield, and that line was incorporated into The Tempts version of Papa was a Rolling Stone. Interesting in that Billy & Eddie in all likelihood played the bass & guitar on The Undisputed Truth's version of "Papa". Anybody know who played the synthesizer on UT's Smilin' Faces?

By Phillysoulman (170.115.179.117 - 170.115.179.117) on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 06:18 pm:

No disrespect to all the fine bassists here but Ronnie Baker, the bass player on all of the Philly hits is so overlooked and hardly given the props that he deserves. All in all he played on more hits than all the afforementioned bassists combined!! I know because I was there as guitarist
on hundreds of hits too numerous to mention.
Think of Bad luck, For the love of money,You're just the right size, the list goes on.
All great bass performances.

By LTLFTC (12.245.225.79 - 12.245.225.79) on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 06:29 pm:

Amen; Ronnie Baker may be THE underrated bassist.On the Tempts "All Direction" lp, the bassists credited are Jamerson, Leroy Taylor and the infamous Bob Babbitt; I was thinking Babbitt or Jamerson based on tone before I looked up the credits- I'm not up on Leroy Taylor at all. The bluesy guitar stuff Has to be Paul Warren (wonder what happened to him?) Melvin ragen is credited on the album; I'd assume it was him on "WAhs"

By john lester (213.1.129.141 - 213.1.129.141) on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 06:37 pm:

Bobby

Wasn't it Ronnie Baker on the Trammps' 60 Minute Man, Zing When The Strings Of My Heart, Hold Back The Night...

One of my most played albums..

What was the name of the Trammps lead vocalist on those songs.....he had one hell of a voice..

By Eli (170.115.179.106 - 170.115.179.106) on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 06:51 pm:

Hi John,
Affirmative to all, and the lead singers' name is Jimmy Ellis. He is now "in the church" and does not want to sing the "devils music".
I'll bet for the right price he will sing any music!!

By john lester (213.1.129.141 - 213.1.129.141) on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 06:52 pm:

Bob Lee

In the US TV special which we Brits refer to as the Teen Town special, it shows the Supremes at Hitsville USA recording "Mother You Smother You" and James Jamerson is clearly in the studio - head bopping away, as usual. (Hey Bobby....you're friend Gil Askey is in it too!!!) The soundtrack uses the completed mix which appears on vinyl.

I couldn't see the Supremes' "Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart" on your list and even to my untrained ears that is James Jamerson.

The lovely Cal Street of the Velvelettes will tell you that James Jamerson did the bass line on "Bird In The Hand Is Worth Two In The Bush"

By Filthyseoulmon! (170.115.179.106 - 170.115.179.106) on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 07:02 pm:

WWWow GGGill AAskkkkey!! I love him. He is one of my musical mentors and a true genius and a load of fun to be around and can dance his ass off to!!
He is in Melbourne Australia, at least last I checked.I heard that he may be coming back and I will try to get him to post.

By John Lester (213.122.201.72 - 213.122.201.72) on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 07:44 pm:

Bobby

That would be great....Gil is another man with a history....

By Caleb (65.149.126.99 - 65.149.126.99) on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 08:50 pm:

Regarding the question as to what happened to Paul Warren.He has been with Richard Marx the last 15 years.

By BOB BABBITT (152.163.207.211 - 152.163.207.211) on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 11:39 pm:

BOB LEE..RICH..LTLFTC..CALEB
�PAPA WAS A ROLLING STONE�
TEMPTATION VERSION............SOMETIMES WHEN NORMAN WOULD USE TWO BASS�S, TWO DRUMS, HE WOULD CALL IN THE UNDISPUTED TRUTH LIVE BASS PLAYER AND DRUMMER, THE DAY BEFORE PAPA WAS RECORDED I HAD BEEN CALLED TO DO THE SESSION BUT DENNIS COFFEY HAD AN OUT OF TOWN GIG AND I WAS PLAYING WITH HIM AT THAT TIME........THE DRUMMER (AARON SMITH) HAD TOLD ME THAT THE BASS PLAYER, HIS NAME WAS LEROY TAYLOR ,WAS THE ONE WHO PLAYED ON THE TEMPTATION VERSION......BUT AT THE FILMING OF THE FUNK BROTHER FILM NATE WATTS (STEVIE WONDER BASS PLAYER) WHO APPEARS IN THE FILM, TOLD ME THAT EDDIE WATKINS WAS THE BASS PLAYER ON THE TEMPTATION VERSION.....................
MAYBE SOMEONE CAN CONTACT THESE GUYS AND CLEAR IT UP.................................
AS FAR AS THE BASS PLAYER ON THE UNDISPUTED TRUTH VERSION...YOURS TRULY
�SMILIN� FACES�......I DON�T KNOW WHO PLAYED THE SYNTHESIZER...BUT THE BASS WAS AGAIN YOURS TRULY.....
PAUL WARREN.........PAUL DID SPEND SOME TIME WITH RICHARD MARX, BUT ALSO WITH TINA TURNER AND I THINK HE IS CURRENTLY WITH JOE COCKER...........
BY THE WAY IT WAS PAUL (16 YEARS OLD) WHO PLAYED THE LEAD GUITAR ON THE TEMPTATION RECORD �PAPA WAS A ROLLING STONE..........AND................
WAH WAH WATSON...WAS...WAH WAHING..........
BOB BABBITT

By Son of Thunder (65.149.125.30 - 65.149.125.30) on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 01:09 am:

Babbitt,see notes by Caleb on Norman Whitfield thread regarding "Papa Was A Rolling Stone".

By Rich (162.33.235.215 - 162.33.235.215) on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 12:10 pm:

Both threads (Whitfield) are turning out to be great reads. I love the threads that shine a spotlight on musicians, song-writers, arrangers, producers & engineers as oppossed to the singers who got all the credit in the general public and have been able to bank on the hits that were put together for them by folks who often got paid once for the session. Eddie Watkins is sounding more and more like another overlooked heavy contributor the Motown sound. But it is also very true as mentioned above that, Ron Baker as one-third of the Baker-Harris-Young tandem in Philly made so many incredible contributions to the sounds we take for granted from the late sixties to the late 70's. Thanks to all for clearing up the Papa was a Rolling Stone credits. I'd still like to know who played the synth on UT's Smilin Faces. Any ideas Dennis?

By Eli (170.115.179.106 - 170.115.179.106) on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 03:48 pm:

Excuse me!! It should read Baker/Harris/Young/Eli
That is THE contingent on all of the recordings. As a matter of fact Eli played on more records with and without BHY. Thank you very much!!

By Rich (162.33.234.196 - 162.33.234.196) on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 04:11 pm:

LOL-sorry Bobby, I didn't forget you, you're here to represent. I've just always heard those three referred to together, Like Holland-Dozier-Holland. Sorry if its its a source of irritation.

By john lester (213.1.128.160 - 213.1.128.160) on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 05:30 pm:

Bobby....

Ta very much for the info on the Trammps...and I bet you are right about Jimmy Ellis performing devils' music for the right price. I am not sure why it is called devil's music though, in any case, I dread to think what he might call current day rap music!

Rich.....
We are lucky to have this site to be able to give Bobby his props for his INCREDIBLE contribution to the music that we have loved and worshipped for some 40 years....and even better, he's still raring to go....and good on you Bobby - that's the spirit!

By LTLFTC (12.245.225.79 - 12.245.225.79) on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 07:09 pm:

Amen again about giving Bobby his props. What a wonderful thing this site is; having the opportunity to thank and give props to folks like Ralph Terrana , Russ Terrana, Jack Ashford, Bob Babbitt, Dennis Coffey, Bobby Eli- not a day goes by - not one- that isn't seriously enhanced by the contributions you (and others mentioned here)have made to the world. As far as I'm concerned y'all have earned the right to be carried around on pillows all day long by Manpower Temps in loin cloths or something (preferably women) but since that probably ain't gonna happen, at least I can thank you for helping make life worth living- and I mean that sincerely.
Steve K
Thanks to David and Lowell for providing this opportunity for us (and dig Lowell's artwork!)

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 07:44 pm:

LTFLTC,
I think I can speak for the others when I tell all of you how much we appreciate the respect you have shown us in this place.It wasn't always easy to do what we have done and your interest in this serves to give those years so long ago, purpose. I'm sure none of us had any idea at the time.

By harryweinger (68.37.255.124 - 68.37.255.124) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 01:12 am:

One more word re the bass sound (the tech side): in handling the half-inch session reels the last few years I've noticed that every Motown recording on 8-track assigns the direct-mic'd bass to track 8 - the outside track, the fattest one, with the drums right next to it (track 7). That may have been standard in the era - anyone know if so? - but that consistency surely added to the vibe. Sure helps when mixing, too.

By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 02:52 am:

It was standard at Motown because the outside tracks on our home-brew 8-tracks didn't have very good high frequency response! Maybe Mike McLean will chime in here and tell about them.

By harryweinger (68.37.255.124 - 68.37.255.124) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 02:57 am:

OK Bob thanks - and hi again, hope all is well.

By M.McLeanTech (63.210.123.100 - 63.210.123.100) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 04:23 am:

Sure enough: as Bob Olhsson said, here I am with a chime.

During the period from 1979 through 1990, I became very involved with maintanance of the magnetic heads on magnetic film recorders and (by that time)"multi-track" recorders. All that was left, by that time, in the way of such a format was the two inch, 24 track format.

I learned to hand "contour" magnetic heads to restore the "like new" performance.

As tape wears metal off the face of a new head, it gradually creates a surface that is no longer flat, and one of the resulting problems is poor tape to head contact near the edge of the tape.

At Motown, we did not maintain the high standards that we should have to prevent this degradation. We were off on other wars with other windmills. As a result, we only faced up to the huge problem of putting a machine off line while we attempted to deal with the problem of recontouring the heads, when we were forced into it by service requests.

Knowing what I do now, about what it takes to keep an analog magnetic recorder sharp, I feel that I should have pressed much harder to get this work done.

I have no comment about Bob's statement to the effect that the recording engineers formatted the tracks under the influance of poor recorder performance, other then to admit that it is possible that this happened.

By M.McLeanTech (63.210.123.100 - 63.210.123.100) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 04:30 am:

In the future, I intend to submit some interesting information about the Motown direct amplifier, which I designed, and which Ed Wolfrum described comprohensivly above.

There were a few minor errors (it was a 30 Watt McIntosh, not a 60)in Ed's discription, but there is a fantastic point about the design of this unit that seems to have been missed by all who knew this unit.

I am utterly exhausted by all the effort to keep up with all the letters. Tomorrow is another day. I want to tell the story of the direct amplifier.

Mike McLean

By john lester (213.122.199.124 - 213.122.199.124) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 10:17 pm:

Mike......take it slowly and easy...we are only too happy to have you on board...please don't exhaust yourself

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, April 26, 2002 - 10:27 pm:

Mike

What John actually means is, you're typing too fast for him to keep up with you. ;o)

By M.McLeanTech (63.208.246.176 - 63.208.246.176) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 04:39 am:

I feel better now that I have had a little rest. Here is the story of the design of the "Motown Five Channel Guitar Direct Amplifier."

We felt that we should have a high fidelity, high performance preamp between the guitar and the line input of the console mixer position. The term "preamp" is short for "preliminary amplifier."

A preamp is tailored, at its input, to accommodate the unique characteristics of the source (be it a phono cartridge, a dynamic microphone, a condenser microphone capsule, a magnetic reproduce head, a photo cell in an optical sound reproducer, or an electric guitar.)

The output of a preamp is tailored to provide professional "line level" characteristics as follows:

Output level: +4 dBu (4 dB above 0.775 Volt, R.M.S. [the voltage required to dissipate 0.001 Watt in a 600 Ohm load resistor] which is 1.228 Volts, R.M.S.: [the level that will cause a standard VU meter to read "0" on the scale with a steady sine wave tone.])

Output configuration: Balanced and floating output source (free of ground: usually a transformer secondary winding.)

Current capability: Able to drive a 300 Ohm load (In case the recording engineer doubles up the loading when patching, it is better to provide for full performance with a 300 Ohm load, without overload distortion.

Headroom: 23 dB of headroom before clipping, which means that the amplifier would clip at an output level of +27 dBu.

We decided that five such preamp channels (five guitars) would be sufficient to meet all practical needs.

In addition, a monitor mixer was required to mix together the five preamp outputs so that the resulting modulation could be fed to a power amplifier and speaker so that the musicians could hear themselves.

The original monitor system that was in use at Motown when I arrived in 1961 consisted of two Altec Lansing type 605-A "Duplex" coaxial speakers which were a fifteen inch low frequency unit with a separate compression driver with a 4 by 2 multicell horn mounted in the center. These speakers were capable of very high sound levels without being damaged.

We had replaced these speakers with other units that were supposed to be an improvement, and we had the two of them sitting in the store room. The musician's guitar monitor seemed like an ideal application for one of these speakers. Further we had a lovely McIntosh type MC-30 mono 30 Watt power amplifier sitting in the store room.

The combination of this amplifier and speaker promised to provide very reliable and appropriate monitoring for the musician. This proved to be true in practice. We built an infinite baffle (sealed box) cabinet for the 605-A, which would take the place of all the old clunker, humming, Fender amplifiers that the musicians used to drag in. Space was at a premium in the old Hitsville studio, and elimination of all those Fender amps and the microphones, with stands, to pick up the sound, was a big advantage.

At first, the tendency was to think in terms of installing the five preamps in the control room, and possibly having them equipped with variable gain controls to that the recording engineer could adjust for correct line output level. I didn't like this because gain pots tend to get noisy, and most important of all, it is difficult to maintain the maximum dynamic range in a preamp which must accommodate a wide range of gain. I liked the idea of a fixed gain preamp that was designed for maximum performance at that gain.

The thought occurred to me that it would be hip to make the setting of the preamp output level the responsibility of the musician. If the preamp gain was sufficient to allow a moderate setting loss on the volume control on the musical instrument, then it would be ideal to simply have the musician set this instrument volume control to provide the correct line level at the preamp output. All that was needed was a VU meter in the studio so that the musician would know when the level was correct. The preamp was designed with fixed gain.

The second step was for the musician to adjust the mixer pot on the little five-channel monitor mixer so that his volume level was comfortable over the Altec 605-A speaker.

We mounted five beautiful 3.5 inch rectangular Triplett VU meters, five rotary monitor mixer pots, and five quarter inch input jacks for the guitar cables, on a seven inch high rack panel, and built the five vacuum-tube preamps on a Bud aluminum chassis mounted directly behind the panel.

The preamps were designed to provide first class professional performance specifications, in accordance with the discussion above. In practice, the recording engineer could forget all about the guitars (except, of course, for mixing them.) He automatically had a perfect line level to patch into his console, because the musician had adjusted the level right at his guitar, using his VU meter. The musicians loved the sound of that McIntosh/Altec combination, and could set the speaker volume to suit their requirements very easily. The entire system was a reliable as the tide, and worked beautifully. Everybody loved it.

I feel that it worked out very well to assign the responsibility for the level control to the musician. As far as I know, we never had any problems with improper levels. I got the feeling that it made the musician feel good to be responsible for this function.

Considering the horrors that could happen when a musician turned down his instrument volume control, while at the same time the recording engineer was fooling around jacking up the gain on a variable gain preamp: It seems to me that this design approach was a minor "stroke of genius." (If you don't mind me saying so.)

If only everything I did at Motown had made as much sense as this did!

By Ed Wolfrum (165.247.228.99 - 165.247.228.99) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 05:03 am:

Hello Mike and all the Gang:

I must add that Mike is correct, a MAC 60 probably would not have fit in the box and the heat load would have been too great. He built it and he knows. But the MAC-30's must have been bigger than I remember. I think I was correct about the old Altec driver you used in the box, but that was over 30 years ago!!!

I should also point out that the performance of the solid state version of this box which I built around OP-AMP labs components for the Theme/B-A Starr studio never was as good as the one at the Blvd despite my attempts at keeping the input Z very high to prevent pickup loading. The big transformer direct boxes, which I built and sold with surplus TRIAD transformers (LOTS OF IRON) worked wonderfully. Ask Russ,Ralph and Artie. I wish I could find some of that TRIAD iron today!!!

Regarding head contouring... We had the same problems at United and we took the same approach, Bass and Bass Drum on the outer tracks unless we we locking to SMPTE which was then put there at -15 below 250 nW/M level to prevent crosstalk. Jimmy Siracuse taught me how to re-lapp heads, which we did as we had the time and could put the machines out of service as we had 2 sets of heads, but just as at Motown, Artie Fields, Terra-Shirma, Pack-3 and all the rest, when a machine was out of service for head changes the room was dark and not making money. Client's screamed!!! Regardless of a closed shop like Motown or a commercial studio like United the economic issues prevail. Jimmy like the rooms to be tip top as we all did, but clients rule!

Mike...Do you remember the MAC 200's, 60's amd 30's in the basement driving your tri-amped AR-3 monitors with the Holland guys frying the midranges almost daily?

By the way Mike, how are you doing out there!!! I speak to Henry Root regularly and I will give him your best.

Peace to All,

Ed

By M.McLeanTech (63.208.241.142 - 63.208.241.142) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 03:30 am:

Dear Ed,

You did real good! You said the 600 series Altec Lansing speaker, which is, in essence, the 605A.

Actually, to be accurate, Altec Lansing made some full range speakers that had numbers lower then 604, which was the magic number.

The 604B was a sensation in 1948! I remember going down with my father to the sound room at "Radio Specialties" at 456 Charlotte Avenue, and seeing Dirk Roos, who went on to be the Sales Manager at McIntosh Labratotory, in Binghamton, New York, for the rest of his life, speaking as if the "604B was the balls of God All Mighty."

Altec numbers below 604 were about full range drivers, like the JBL D-130. The co-axial units started with 604.

I was astonished at how well you remembered the guitar amp. The 60/30 Watt stuff is a non issue.

I have a tape that you loaned me, thirty three years ago, of members of the Detroit Symphony Orchestra performing a serious classical work.

Please note my remarks elswhere in this forum, regarding my failier to accomplish my goals to record serious classical music in a personal eight channel stereo format.

I suspect that if I had been able to join forces with you, I could have made some eight channel tapes to play in my basement.

Of course, I would never have had the time to recognise anything, other then my latest obsession, as I wormed my way through my employment at Motown.

Sincerely,

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (63.210.112.176 - 63.210.112.176) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 02:40 am:

Dear Ed,

My previous answer to your letter was written after a few beers. I am now writing a formal answer.

Thank you for your interesting points. I am starting to wonder if I remember those full range (mechanical crossover) Altec Lansing speaker model numbers accurately. I seems to me that they might have made a coaxial 12 inch with a 603 number.

I paid my dues and then some with Opamp Labs products. About five years ago, I ripped out a video transfer room and reused the parts to build a new bay consisting of five tall racks. I had a whole bunch of Opamp Labs 425 amplifiers, and a bunch of those TRIAD round can 600/600 Ohm transformers that had the hollow 3/8 inch bushing (like a rotary pot bushing with the shaft missing) on one end, with wire leads coming out. I built up some interfacing amplifier panels with that stuff that we still use today. You can pass high quality audio through them, and nobody has ever complained about any fidelity loss. Those transformers suffer from severe overshoot and ringing at somewhere around 80 KHz, but all it takes is about a 1.8 KOhm load to damp it right down as nice as can be. This still leaves enough current to drive a 600 Ohm load with no problems. You would think that we would have problems with low frequency distortion, but we don't seem to, in practice.

Regarding the economics of head recontouring: It really was a shame that the economic atmosphere was so restrictive as to lead to letting things slide out of Spec. There should have been a spare head assembly in house to allow proper maintenance. Later, when I worked at the Warner Hollywood Studios (also known as "Goldwyn") it was a different story! Those machines had to be sharp as a razor at all times. I spent a lot of time doing head work, and also, a lot of dull, repetitive work lining up machines. Every dummy (magnetic film reproducer) was adjusted for azimuth and preamp equalization (using a real time 1/3 octave analyzer and pink noise) and gain (using a hand held VU meter that plugged into the front of the machine, and 1 KHz tone.) and then the Dolby SR was aligned using SR noise. We did all this each time we hung a new edited roll of track ("unit" is the correct term.) Since it was normal to have around fifteen units or more hung when dubbing, this added up to a lot of work.

Every time we hung a new roll of blank 35 MM magnetic film stock on a film recorder, we would "bias up" the machine. This meant degaussing the head stack, running a pink noise loop and peaking the playback azimuth, setting equalization, running a 1KHz loop and adjusting the playback gain, and then adjusting the record bias for 0.5 dB over peak, adjusting the record head azimuth, record equalization, and record level. Then the SR was checked for correct alignment. Finally, pink noise, 1 KHz tone, and SR noise was recorded at the head of the roll for use in future alignment.

This probably sounds incredible, but it was just everyday routine. When you have three (at $100,000./year each) dubbing mixers sitting at the console with a director like Jack Nicholson or Steven Spielburg, dubbing a twenty million dollar picture, you simply can't afford to allow anything sloppy to start dragging the quality down or causing time consuming problems.

Working in a situation like that should have been heavenly for me, but it was just a lot of boring hard work, when it came time to actually do it.

Regarding the tri-amped AR-3 monitors, that is a great story, but it will have to wait until I can get around to telling it. In the mean time, check in another thread ("Technical discussion with Mike McLean") for a related story ("Training the hearing�").

If you have not looked over that thread, you might find it interesting. For the latest, look in the new thread "Mike McLean 2."

If you have any further comment regarding the above, please post it on the new thread "Mike McLean 2."

I'm still alive, but I drink too much. There is a bunch of personal information in the thread "Technical discussion with Mike McLean."

Say hello to Henry Root for me!

Cheers,

Mike McLean

By Eli (170.115.179.106 - 170.115.179.106) on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 05:47 pm:

Mike,
Did you have any kind of "vintage"synching devices to lock up machines??

By M.McLeanTech (64.156.152.18 - 64.156.152.18) on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 07:55 pm:

Eli,

We purchased an RCA "Unilock" unit, at Lawrence Horn's insistance, but we never were able to get the thing to work very well. Before long, it fell into disuse. That's about it.

Mike McLean