question about "this old heart"

[thisoldheart]

when did sylvia moy's name get added to h-d-h's writing credits for this song? i was just looking at wikipedia and her name appears as co-writer. it was never on the original isley release. what's up?

[motownjohnny]

I don't have a copy of the original single so I can't say whether she was given writing credits when it was first released. Ditto for the Tammi Terrell version released in 1968. I do have a copy of the album "This Old Heart........." and Sylvia Moy is definitely not credited on it as a co-writer.

However, in Volume 6 of The Complete Motown Singles series [[Disc 28 tracks 4 and 6) she is listed there as a co-writer. She is also named on the Don't Forget the Motor City listing for this song, so I can only guess that some time after the original release her name was added perhaps following some inspection of the original Motown paperwork.

[nabob]

I don't have a copy of the original single so I can't say whether she was given writing credits when it was first released. Ditto for the Tammi Terrell version released in 1968. I do have a copy of the album "This Old Heart........." and Sylvia Moy is definitely not credited on it as a co-writer. Sylvia Moy didn't receive writer's credit on the 60s albums by the Isley Brothers, the Supremes or Tammi Terrell. Surprisingly, she received credit on the 1986 [À Go-Go/Love Child] twofer by the Supremes, but not on the Isley's [This Old Heart/Soul on the Rocks] twofer. She did receive credit on the 1991 Tammi Terrell Irresistible.

[motownjohnny]

Sylvia Moy didn't receive writer's credit on the 60s albums by the Isley Brothers, the Supremes or Tammi Terrell. Surprisingly, she received credit on the 1986 [À Go-Go/Love Child] twofer by the Supremes, but not on the Isley's [This Old Heart/Soul on the Rocks] twofer. She did receive credit on the 1991 Tammi Terrell Irresistible.

I have the Isley Brothers twofer and Sylvia Moy IS credited as a writer.

[roger]

I have the Isley Brothers twofer and Sylvia Moy IS credited as a writer.

Is that the 1986 U.S. release or the 2002 U.K. Toofer?

I have the U.K. 2002 Toofer of "This Old Heart of Mine"/"Soul On The Rocks" and Sylvia is indeed credited as co-composer. She is also credited on the 2000 U.K. Toofer of "Supremes A Go-Go"/"Love Child".

I also have the 1981 U.S. vinyl reissue of the "This Old Heart Of Mine" L.P. and she doesn't get a credit.

Roger

[motownjohnny]

Roger I live in the U.K and like you I have the 2002 U.K. version of "This Old Heart Of Mine / Soul On The Rocks".

It would seem that sometime in the 80's or early 90's Sylvia's name was added to the writing credits on this, but I don't know why she was left off when it was first released.

I wonder if she received any backdated royalties that were due to her?

[Methuselah2]

Sylvia Moy's name was not included on the originally released 45 rpm single. The crediting of her somewhat later has been a confusing issue for some time. But I know of no clear answer as to how it occurred.

It might have been an oversight, an editorial error, possibly even a sticking point regarding authorship versus contributorship. There might be many other possibilities, as well, as to how the discrepancy came about.

R. Dean Taylor's name appears with HDH's on a few recordings--I'LL TURN TO STONE, for example--so Sylvia's omission originally from THIS OLD HEART OF MINE [[IS WEAK FOR YOU) seems additionally puzzling. Perhaps HDH's name on a recording became so well known--easy to spot and instantly recognizable--that it had the cachet of almost being a 'brand', so maybe it had been decided that such A-sided releases would carry only an HDH credit. I have no infornation about this--I mention it only as a possibility.

I have seen IT'S A GOOD FEELING on labels credited solely to HDH. But I have also seen it attributed to HDH along with Smokey Robinson. And there may well be others that have similar crediting issues.

Maybe it boils down to the producers who perhaps had final crediting approval. And maybe there were certain benchmarks that, at the time, had to be met in order to get it.

One thing seems certain: It's an interesting issue for Motown aficionados. And I would guess for some former Motown writers, too.

[Motown4Ever518]

Get Out Of Town! "It's A Good Feeling", is one of my favorite Motown songs possibly top 5. The reason it works IMO is that it is an HDH and Smokey Song! It gives us the best of each camp. Hearing that it could possibly be an HDH only song after all of these years is a little disappointing. I thought about this as I am writing this, and the reason I feel it's a collaboration is that it wasn't written to be a hit[[HDH), but was written to be the best song it could be and let the chips fall where they may[[Smokey). Truth be told, I feel there is a Gospel Song here, I wonder if the authors would consider rewriting it in the Gospel vein.

[Methuselah2]

M4E518 - I agree with you completely--It's a great tune [[one of my favorites) and part of what's great about it is that it does sound like it could be an HDH/Smokey collaboration. But the Smokey & the Miracles' album on which it first appeared lists only HDH as its writers.

"What 'cha gonna do, oh yeah--that tune is always itchin' in my heart and, baby, I'm not exactly sure who wrote it."

That recording had 'A-side smash' written all over it. How did that one slip by from being released as a single? I'd love to know.

[Motown4Ever518]

M4E518 - I agree with you completely--It's a great tune [[one of my favorites) and part of what's great about it is that it does sound like it could be an HDH/Smokey collaboration. But the Smokey & the Miracles' album on which it first appeared lists only HDH as its writers.

Could I have gotten the impression from the original Make It Happen LP, and not the latter Tears Of A Clown re-issue? Ironically, in Philly, probably The Hy Lit Show, the was a video shown of SR and the Miracles doing the song, kind of a video with the group sitting down, without a fancy stepping. I am going to see if I can locate on You Tube.

[Methuselah2]

It was hugely popular in Philadelphia for doing the great dance The Wagner Walk on Jerry Blavat's TV show and at his dances. His dancers always knew the real deal. Hy Lit's show was another great show, too. Hy is really missed--but there's still Hy Lit Radio to enjoy. And Jerry is still going strong on radio, at his NJ club, and everywhere else.

[Motown4Ever518]

It was hugely popular in Philadelphia for doing the great dance The Wagner Walk on Jerry Blavat's TV show and at his dances. His dancers always knew the real deal.

Would that have been from Wagners Ballroom near Broad and Onley?

[Methuselah2]

That was the place. Jerry also did great dances at Chez Vous [[dance hall & roller rink) at 69th St. in Upper Darby, PA.

[Motown4Ever518]

I did look @ what was one you-tube, the dance is incredibly in-sync with the song, I really liked it, but could not do it without notes.

[Methuselah2]

M4E518 -

If you haven't seen these, here's 2 fairly recent video clips that include some dancers who actually danced at the Wagner Ballroom and at Chez Vous back in the day--mid 1960s. In the second video, the guy in the white shirt in front is really terrific.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P6_VPSxGT4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41RvHKPVnhs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Methuselah2]

Here's the MAKE IT HAPPEN album label showing IT'S A GOOD FEELING as being solely by HDH:

http://sinistersaladmusikal.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/100_2497.jpg

[thisoldheart]

so who and how is it decided to add a writer many years after the song was released?

[masterblaster]

Sylvia Moy's name was not included on the originally released 45 rpm single. The crediting of her somewhat later has been a confusing issue for some time. But I know of no clear answer as to how it occurred.



I have the Tammi Terrel single on Motown [[M1138) and Sylvia Moy is credited.

[roger]

I have the Tammi Terrel single on Motown [[M1138) and Sylvia Moy is credited.

So she is .. I've found a scan of the demo version ..

http://collectorsfrenzy.com/details/380637870220/NM_NORTHERN_SOUL_PROMO_45_TAMMI_TERRELL_THIS_OLD_H EART_OF_MINE

Roger

[Methuselah2]

Here's the Isleys' original single label--no Sylvia:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8fb75bwwJ1r4k8ny_1344407194_cover.jpg

And Tammi's--with Sylvia:

http://images.45cat.com/tammi-terrell-this-old-heart-of-mine-is-weak-for-you-motown.jpg

Isleys': released Jan. 1966
Tammi's: Dec. 1968

Production credit for both: Holland-Dozier

[Motown4Ever518]

Here's the MAKE IT HAPPEN album label showing IT'S A GOOD FEELING as being solely by HDH:

http://sinistersaladmusikal.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/100_2497.jpg

My final thought I believe, on it's A Good Feeling. My best friend in the world from 1975 - 1990 and I were Motown Junkies living in New York City. When it came to songwriters, he was a fanatic about all things HDH, I was a fan of all things William Robinson solo and in concert with others. We split the difference with Ashford and Simpson whom we mutually liked. We talked about the song in question and discovered that we both loved it, partially because we thought it was a four person composition.

Greg if you are out there let me know me know my friend.