Who Came First, Joyce Kennedy or Chaka Khan?

[Kamasu_Jr]

A friend played some Mother's Finest forme this afternoon. Good gawd! Black funk meets rock n roll. I was knocked out. The band could rock with the best of them, but the public wasn't ready I've been told. Lead vocalist Joyce Kennedy had some lungs on her. She reminded me a little of Chaka, no actually a lot. Is Joyce where Chaka got it from? Both singers are from Chicago. Research shows that Rufus and Mother's Finest both issued records in the early Seventies. Rufus had hits first.

[soulster]

It's hard to say. Rufus was technically a band under The American Breed in 1967 [[Bend Me, Shape Me), and Chaka Khan joined Rufus as a replacement for the former lead singer in 1972, the same year Mother's Finest formed. But, of course, Rufus had much more success because no one would accept a Black hard rock band in the 70s. They both had major label signings with Rufus at ABC, and Mother's Finest first at RCA, then Epic.

I have four Mother's Finest albums, and all but the last three Rufus albums.

[Kamasu_Jr]

Interesting. I read some stuff about Joyce "biting" Chaka's style. But I'm not sure that's the case.

[soulster]

Chaka, as a singer, is a natural. You do have their first album, right? The interesting about it is that it explores several different styles. I guess it was the band finding their way, the one that was realized on "Rags To Rufus", once they and the label found out what style of music attracted buyers.6875

[Kamasu_Jr]

There were some good songs on the first Rufus album like Whoever's Thrilling You and Slip N Slide, Maybe Your Baby, Keep It Coming, etc .

[jack020]

In Holland in the 70's Mothers Finest was more popular than Rufus with several top 40 hits.

Joyce also had a hit with the ballad duet with Jeffrey Osborne: The Last Time I Made Love.

[robb_k]

Joyce Kennedy first had a 45 released in 1963. I doubt that Chaka Kahn was singing professionally that early.

[soulster]

Joyce Kennedy first had a 45 released in 1962. I doubt that Chaka Kahn was singing professionally that early.
That says Joyce Kennedy has been around longer because Chaka Khan was still a teenager when she joined Rufus. But, as part of a band, they were both in one about the same time.


In Holland in the 70's Mothers Finest was more popular than Rufus with several top 40 hits.

Joyce also had a hit with the ballad duet with Jeffrey Osborne: The Last Time I Made Love. She also had a solo hit single in the 80s called "Stronger Than Before" on A&M Records. It was a pop ballad.

Mother's Finest was, at it's heart, a rock band, but in the late 70s, when they signed with Epic, Larkin Arnold decided they should do straight ahead R&B. They achieved a minor hit, but they just weren't too happy. In 1981, or thereabouts, they signed with Atlantic and released a metal album "Iron Age".

Here in the U.S., MF was mostly known in rock circles. Rufus, on the other hand, was popular with both R&B and rock audiences. Rufus had several top 10 ten and top R&B hits. They stopped coming in 1980, after Khan had already established a successful solo career. Rufus tried to go it alone without her, but finally reunited for a live album and some more hit sides. Various member combinations of Rufus have played together with Khan over the years. Mother's Finest, I believe, is still touring together.

[soulster]

There were some good songs on the first Rufus album like Whoever's Thrilling You and Slip N Slide, Maybe Your Baby, Keep It Coming, etc . If you have it on CD, keep it! I had it on CD back in the 90s and didn't like it, so I sold it. A couple of years ago, I decided to create my own Rufus featuring Chaka Khan singles collection and needed the songs from that album, so, it took me the good part of a year, but I found it again.

BTW, I had to recreate a few 45 single edits from the album versions on CD because almost none of the singles are available on CD. At least, now, I have nice digital versions of the singles.

I like Mother's Finest, but I do not have all of the albums. I have the essential ones, though.

[splanky]

Mother's Finest was from the south, Georgia if I remember not Chicago. And though Chaka
had sung in other groups before joining Rufus where she was their second female lead, not
first as some believe, she was always Chaka. [[Well after the name change from Yvette Stevens:)...) Joyce Baby Jean Kennedy was a very good singer in 1972 yes, I'll agree but
she did indeed like at least 2 or 3 other singers, adopt Chaka's phrasing by the time of Love Changes. It's happened before with Orlons biting Martha Reeves, etc..Also, I suspect the
Joyce Kennedy robb k mentioned earlier is a different singer than Baby Jean. Mother's
Finest always had a complicated, almost love/hate relationship with their followers and
I think that hurt them more than anything else...

[glencro]

She also had a solo hit single in the 80s called "Stronger Than Before" on A&M Records. It was a pop ballad.


I always found it interesting that Chaka re-recorded "Strong Than Before" after Joyce released it

[robb_k]

Mother's Finest was from the south, Georgia if I remember not Chicago. And though Chaka
had sung in other groups before joining Rufus where she was their second female lead, not
first as some believe, she was always Chaka. [[Well after the name change from Yvette Stevens:)...) Joyce Baby Jean Kennedy was a very good singer in 1972 yes, I'll agree but
she did indeed like at least 2 or 3 other singers, adopt Chaka's phrasing by the time of Love Changes. It's happened before with Orlons biting Martha Reeves, etc..Also, I suspect the
Joyce Kennedy robb k mentioned earlier is a different singer than Baby Jean. Mother's
Finest always had a complicated, almost love/hate relationship with their followers and
I think that hurt them more than anything else...

No Joyce Baby Jean Kennedy was the same Joyce Kennedy who recorded for small Chicago labels [[Ran Dee) in 1963 and 1964, and for Mercury's Fontana and Blue Rock Records in 1964 and 1965. She was only 13 years old when she first recorded in 1963.

[robb_k]

Here's Joyce's biography. She was Andre Williams' niece. He produced all her early recordings.

[splanky]

I stand corrected. Thank you robb k...I also stand by my point about Joyce 's being smitten
with Chaka Khan's vocal style...
Joyce singing on early Mother's Finest recording:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSAvXAzxFA0

and Joyce with MF's later big hit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ivtekjf7iw

[Kamasu_Jr]

Someone told me Joyce Kennedy influenced or inspired Chaka's vocal style. Joyce Kennedy is 5 years older than Chaka, which means Joyce could have been gigging around Chicago when she was 20 and Chaka was 15. As Robb says Joyce made recordings before Chaka. It's hard to say who influenced who. However both singers were influenced by Tina Turner. You can hear that Tina swagger in Joyce Kennedy.

[splanky]

Kam, I doubt you listened to the two tracks I posted above of Joyce's but again I have to
say I don't care if Joyce was older and recorded first. I cannot hear anything in her early
Ran recordings that I've found that I think made a major impact on Chaka's style...come on,
this???:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-bbXW_3vRw

I think Chaka was more influenced by Aretha Franklin and jazz singers like Sarah Vaughn than anyone else. As far as swagger Tina didn't have a monopoly on that, Betty Davis, Yvonne Fair, Etta James and a number of James Brown's featured ladies had swagger to burn...

And BTW, no offense,robb k, but didn't you say you stopped listening to most music
recorded after 68, 69 or some such year? How would you notice the changes in 70's
vocal trends?...

[Kamasu_Jr]

I did listen to the songs provided Splank.I still don't know. I've gotta borrow my dad's Rufus Lp to listen to Chaka's early vocal style. Did she record anything before joining Rufus? By the time Chaka and Rufus did Rags to Rufus, her style was pretty much set.