TCMS- Volume. 12A: 1972 - It's Here!

[RossHolloway]

I just received my copy of this set moments ago! Can't wait to read and listen to this set this weekend!

[motownjohnny]

Hey RossHolloway you're a very lucky person!

I live in the U.K. and have a copy on pre-order with Amazon U.K. but I'm told that it won't be released here until at least 1 July. Perhaps by the time I receive it you'll have had a copy of Vol. 12B!! Who did you order from?

[RossHolloway]

Hey Motownjohnny - I ordered directly from HippoSelect.

[motownjohnny]

HippoSelect won't ship to the U.K. so we can't order from them and neither can anyone else living in an E.U. member state.

Anyone know why that is? Is it a tax thing?

[jack020]

Ordering from Amazon UK will save you from paying a lot of import taxes. Also be careful to buy from a seller on Amazon UK outside of the EU: I made that mistake and had to pay import taxes.

[roger]

I thought that Hippo's policy is because Universal's offices in the U.K./Europe like to "release" their product in the U.K./Europe and didn't like the idea of another Universal company being in competition with them.

Much as, in the same way, if you were Coca-Cola in the U.K. you wouldn't want to find out that your local supermarket was being supplied directly from the U.S.A.

I don't think it has anything to do with "taxes" at all.

This does have an advantage for we U.K./European music fans as if/when a U.K./European "release" ever comes out it is invariably cheaper than in the U.S. [[less overheads I suppose) but it is extremely frustrating for us in the meantime.

Roger

[RossHolloway]

The one thing I've always loved about TCMS is the liner notes. I'm just as fascinated about the history/creation of these songs as much as I am about the music itself. The liner notes read like a great history book. I really hate for this series to end, I still think there's a lot to be told about the music of Motown after 1972.

The introduction starts with how Ralph and Russ Terrana came into the Motown fold and their musical background. Really fascinating stuff.

One bit of trivia that I did not know was the fact that Berry Gordy offered Levi Stubbs a role in the movie Lady Sings the Blues in late 1971, and Levi turned it down. I'm left wondering who broke up with who? Did Motown break up with the Four Tops or did the Four Tops break up with Motown.

Susan Whitall ends by saying, "Change was coming. It still wasn't clear what direction the company would take, but many of its most iconic stars would not be going along for the ride."

I got a lump in my throat half way reading that last sentance.

Now on to the music.

[carole cucumber]

http://faac.us/adf/messages/178308/181320.html?1224444281

[RossHolloway]

http://faac.us/adf/messages/178308/181320.html?1224444281

Thanks Carole. It's hard for me to read memoral threads, and tend to stear clear of them. I do wonder how taking that role would have changed the direction of Levi Stubb's and the Four Tops if he had taken that role.

[mickeymac]

Oh yeah shout out to both Ralph and Russ in the liner notes of this.

[tamla617]

Its only £47 inc. delivery on Amazon UK now !! Pre Order.........July 1st release. Which doesn't make sense as its out in the States

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Complete-Motown-Singles-Vol/dp/tracks/B006XC9AUA/ref=dp_tracks_all_full#disc_1

[carole cucumber]

My copy arrived today. What a nice balance to see not only a previously unreleased single in the front pocket but an [[in 1972) unreleased album [[Motown 733: David) among those pictured on the back cover.
I'm wondering if the fact that there are no photos of some artists [[Blue Scepter, Vincent DiMirco, Eric & The Vikings, Howl the Good, Chris Holland & T-Bone, The Blackberries,and Crystal Mansion) and multiple of several others [[Four Tops, Supremes, Gladys Knight & The Pips,Temptations, Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson & the Miracles, Jackson 5, Michael Jackson, Syreeta, Thelma Houston) played into the long delay for completion of this set in any way. Did some artists not want to be pictured or are there no photos available?

[carole cucumber]

Harry,
I know that you have previously stated that you are not responsible for the song information that appears on our computer screen when we insert cd's. However, it was very odd to see "I Can't Quit Your Love' listed as the U.K. single version.

[carole cucumber]

keith or Harry,
Who are Volume One to whom the Different Shades of Brown tracks were first assigned?

[hwume]

If you have photos of any of those artists please alert me. In all the years of preparation I have seen not a one.


My copy arrived today. What a nice balance to see not only a previously unreleased single in the front pocket but an [[in 1972) unreleased album [[Motown 733: David) among those pictured on the back cover.
I'm wondering if the fact that there are no photos of some artists [[Blue Scepter, Vincent DiMirco, Eric & The Vikings, Howl the Good, Chris Holland & T-Bone, The Blackberries,and Crystal Mansion) and multiple of several others [[Four Tops, Supremes, Gladys Knight & The Pips,Temptations, Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson & the Miracles, Jackson 5, Michael Jackson, Syreeta, Thelma Houston) played into the long delay for completion of this set in any way. Did some artists not want to be pictured or are there no photos available?

[Kamasu_Jr]

I got my copy today. I read some of the notes but haven't listened to it yet. There are some great photos in this set A quick observattion is how few pop hits are on this set. Motown still had a strong R&B presence, but seemed to be waning in the world of pop. There is a noticeable difference between records cut in California and those in Detroit. The Detroit musicians were still better. The Supremes had one single release in 1972, a sign that something was wrong internally.

[carole cucumber]

If you have photos of any of those artists please alert me. In all the years of preparation I have seen not a one.


Some Members of Blue Scepter [[1971):
Gary Quackenbush [[guitar), Richard Haddad [[bass), John ""Scott" Richardson [[vocals)


https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/5420_1127871874421_1564700_n.jpg

[carole cucumber]

A very extensive history of the band that became Blue Scepter for a short time

http://rockprosopography102.blogspot.com/2011/04/fugitives-src-story.html

[carole cucumber]

The Blackberries:

http://longshotsblues.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/clydie-king-venetta-fields-sherlie-matthews.jpg?w=500http://www.sherliematthews.com/motown3.jpg

[carole cucumber]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/THE-VIKINGS-aka-ERIC-AND-THE-VIKINGS/108860562539451

Regrettably the 2 black & white photos in the first section of the photo area are not all that clear.

[carole cucumber]

For Howl the Good, why didn't you just use the group photo from the album back cover?

[carole cucumber]

Crystal Mansion


http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/500/22681567/Crystal+Mansion.jpg

[carole cucumber]

Looking at an older photo of Arnie Corrado [[Chris Holland),
http://www.45cat.com/record/21509

this may just be he in recent years
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27813249@N08/2588501816/ [[http://www.flickr.com/photos/27813249@N08/2588501816/)

[carole cucumber]

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/even-blacker-sabbath-20130611

The 5th review down should be of interest.

[johnjeb]

carole cucumber, thanks for the picture of Crystal Mansion. I know nothing about them or their music, other than through the years seeing their name associated with Motown, but was surprised to read that the lead singer was from my hometown of Waltham, Massachusetts.

Of course my favorite Motown connection with my hometown is that in 1966 I saw The Supremes at Brandeis University which is about a mile from my home.

[Jimi LaLumia]

Hip-O Select/Universal cry about the sales figures of these things, but really, where do they advertise these releases, where do they get reviews? I've never seen an ad anywhere for these deluxe type releases [[except for two reviews in Rolling Stone, I believe I saw Marvin Gaye and the second Marvelettes package)..how can people buy something if they don't know it exists? I've spoken to many people over time, Supremes fans, who know nothing of the delluxe editions, and wwant to own them...

[Kamasu_Jr]

Jim, I've asked the same questions. It seems that only truly knowledgeable music collectors are aware of these releases, which are great. But I'd think they would sell bigger if more people knew about them. Carole, thanks for the picture of the Blackberries with Berry Gordy Jr. I recognize Venetta Fields and Clydie King. I assume the woman with the big afro is Sherlie Matthews?

[carole cucumber]

Yes, here is another photo of just Sherlie from that era.

http://www.sherliematthews.com/me-motown.gif

[RossHolloway]

Carole Cucumber - WOW. Thanks for sharing those great pictures!
I've really enjoyed reading about all these little known groups [[at least they are little known to me). There are some really nice tracks on this set and the liner notes read like a history book- I find them quite fascinating.

[masterblaster]

Hip-O Select/Universal cry about the sales figures of these things, but really, where do they advertise these releases, where do they get reviews? how can people buy something if they don't know it exists? I've spoken to many people over time, Supremes fans, who know nothing of the delluxe editions, and wwant to own them...
The should open sales to the Europe if they want to improve their sales figures. Rediculous that they prevent any purchases to overseas markets.

[jobeterob]

Great pictures Carole.

I have all of these volumes, but I've stalled getting this one ~ I'm not even sure why ~ I think it is that there is so much on them that is unknown.

I've always had a suspicion that some of the prolific Supremes debaters don't have any of these volumes.

[Nothing But Soul]

I've always had a suspicion that some of the prolific Supremes debaters don't have any of these volumes.

Touché, Jobetrob!

[roger]

The should open sales to the Europe if they want to improve their sales figures. Rediculous that they prevent any purchases to overseas markets.

They usually do Masterblaster. It is just that that we have to wait a few weeks and then buy via "Other Ume" sources.

I'm intending to order this set via Amazon.co.uk next week ... :)

Roger

[RossHolloway]

Great pictures Carole.

I have all of these volumes, but I've stalled getting this one ~ I'm not even sure why ~ I think it is that there is so much on them that is unknown.

I've always had a suspicion that some of the prolific Supremes debaters don't have any of these volumes.

The unknown is what attracts me the most about these [[and other releases). You just never know what's going to make you smile or be your musical revelation. I was really caught off guard by the Frankie Valli songs on this set and by some of the male groups and how much of it sounds like Philly soul. There are some real quality songs in this set, I can't wait for the last volume to come out later this year.

And make no mistake, I LOVE the Supreme's but I also LOVE Motown.

[tamla617]

I just pre ordered mine £59! gits on Amazon put it up . It was £47 on the 6th June.
Thought I'd better get in there before they decide to rip us off some more as the release date gets nearer.

[keith_hughes]

keith or Harry,
Who are Volume One to whom the Different Shades of Brown tracks were first assigned?

As I recall it, the session logs show that a number of tracks started by Volume One were subsequently completed by DSOB. We thought that maybe the logs were just reflecting a name change, but Nate Newsome told us the group had never gone by that name. We also wondered whether Volume One were any relation to the Volumes, who had a single that appeared on Volume 8, but that turned out to be a bad guess too.

It might be interesting to pull out some of Volume One's archive and see whether any tracks are complete enough to include in some future compilation somewhere. At least we'd have a chance to try and research them properly!

[thisoldheart]

just got back home from vacation to my mail and vol. 14a.

it reminds me of the early volumes and the last volume, a company in search of a cohesive sound. the first volumes were working toward a unique sound. this volume sounds like a company bereft of purpose, its prime components leaving a sinking ship, and its new stars still unformed. EXCEPT for the wondrous syreeta [[and stevie) track "to know you is to love you" and marvin's much maligned "you're the man". i forgot how great these tracks were.

i was also surprised how weak michael Jackson's voice was. he sounded sharp on the perfect "i want you back", but very juvenile on most other tracks. "rockin' robin" is an embarrassment. wonder's early stuff is a mature voice trapped in a kid's body. it is surprise that jackson turned into a wickedly phenomenal singer as an adult. that motown didn't stick with him shows they didn't think his popularity would last.

for such a mastermind berry gordy certainly made a considerable amount of poor decisions. his ego far out reached his business acumen.

[lakedistrictlad1]

I just ordered mine from Sainsburys Entertainment [[that's an online supermarket in the U.K).

I had a £50 gift voucher so it only ended up costing me about £7. If I hadn't had the voucher to spend I must admit I wouldn't have purchased this set. It sounds like this is where the Motown sound evaporates. I doubt I will play it much.

[RossHolloway]

just got back home from vacation to my mail and vol. 14a.

it reminds me of the early volumes and the last volume, a company in search of a cohesive sound. the first volumes were working toward a unique sound. this volume sounds like a company bereft of purpose, its prime components leaving a sinking ship, and its new stars still unformed. EXCEPT for the wondrous syreeta [[and stevie) track "to know you is to love you" and marvin's much maligned "you're the man". i forgot how great these tracks were.

i was also surprised how weak michael Jackson's voice was. he sounded sharp on the perfect "i want you back", but very juvenile on most other tracks. "rockin' robin" is an embarrassment. wonder's early stuff is a mature voice trapped in a kid's body. it is surprise that jackson turned into a wickedly phenomenal singer as an adult. that motown didn't stick with him shows they didn't think his popularity would last.

for such a mastermind berry gordy certainly made a considerable amount of poor decisions. his ego far out reached his business acumen.

Interesting post, but I think your assessment is a bit harsh on Berry Gordy. I think there were a couple of different factors going on during this time period. I remember reading a quote from Berry Gordy where he basically said that by this point "they/Motown" had achieved all that there was to achieve on the musical front and that he was now turning his attention to movies. It seems that Gordy just was not as involved in the day to day operations of Motown at this point and others had stepped in to run the company. Plus I also think that musical taste were changing in the early 1970's and Motown just wasn't at the front of the musical pack at this point. It was still churning out some great quality music, it just wasn't at the same clip as a few years earlier. I think some artists were ready for a label change for any number of reasons and left the company or were not resigned, and some artists just called it quits all together and didn't make the transition out to California. I think some of the newer artists wern't given the proper attention and promotion they needed or deserved, but their efforts are remembered here on this set.

One thing that I find remarkable is the true diversity of the music and the artists on this set and that's one thing that Motown never fully ever gets credit for, their musical diversity. I'm glad that this set was finally released. My hope and wish is that another company picks up where HippoSelect left off and continues this series.

[kenneth]

@RossHolloway - I'm in complete agreement with you on this.

I haven't purchased the set yet, just shopping around trying to find a good price. Even if it won't get played much, as a full document of all the Motown singles during this period, it is an amazing project. I have the Stax complete singles as well, but I don't think theirs include the B-sides, which to me are essential.

I agree that in the latter days the material is not that cohesive, but Motown was of course branching out, and the impact of FM Radio on what everyone was listening to was enormous. I think the latter volumes of the series are not as much of an enjoyable listening experience, from start to finish, as the earlier volumes, but they are nevertheless full of interesting music. I do sometimes get tired of the single [[Mono) version, and then having to hear the promo [[Stereo) version a couple tracks later, especially of course if the song isn't that interesting.

But hey, I'm a collector, and I think Hip-O will be remembered for this series, if for nothing else, for a long long time to come.

[jobeterob]

You can't have all the rest of these and miss out on the last couple.

[roger]

You can't have all the rest of these and miss out on the last couple.

Quite ...

This site has sound-clips of a lot of the tracks ..

http://www.allmusic.com/album/the-complete-motown-singles-vol-12a-1972-mw0002525170

When I listen to them there are only a few duds among the 50% or so of the tracks that I don't already know and have, and some of them are really good.

I think that any "problem" is that by 1972 very few of these Motown releases actually SOUNDED like "Motown" [[as we knew the term back in the 1963-1970 period). The company's output was a lot less generic and instead was a more broad reflection of what was happening in Pop/R&B at that time.. Musically I think I'd prefer a "Complete P.I.R. singles of 1972" but there are still enough highlights on this collection for me. :)

Roger

[thisoldheart]

... One thing that I find remarkable is the true diversity of the music and the artists on this set and that's one thing that Motown never fully ever gets credit for, their musical diversity. I'm glad that this set was finally released. My hope and wish is that another company picks up where HippoSelect left off and continues this series.
i will admit to the diversity, but not to a very consistent quality. but, you can bet your bottom dollar i will get14B because as jobeterob said, " you can't have all of these and miss out on the last couple[[!)

[RossHolloway]

The track Funky Music Sho Nuff Turns Me On by the Temps on Disc 70 states that it was recorded Live at the Funky Monkey. Does anyone know if the entire concert recording ever appeared anywhere? I see where it also says in the liner notes that its really a studio recording, but it really sounds like a live recording. Anyone have any thoughts?

[roger]

i will admit to the diversity, but not to a very consistent quality. but, you can bet your bottom dollar i will get14B because as jobeterob said, " you can't have all of these and miss out on the last couple[[!)

Errr .. Don't you mean 12B?

I would love it if this series went to 14B :)

Roger

[thisoldheart]

Errr .. Don't you mean 12B?

I would love it if this series went to 14B :)

Roger opps! 12B ... i don't think i would want the series to go beyond 1972!

[lakedistrictlad1]

Thanks for the link to the music Roger - and I agree with your review.

So many of these singles sounds like rock music - not soul. But then buy the early 70's the fire that was soul music in the 60's was just about burned out. If I listened to them in a blind test i'd never believe some of this music was on a Motown label.

I will get both editions of 12 to complete the series - but I will wait for 12b until it's at the £16 a set price mark which I see a lot of the early sets are online now.

[masterblaster]

The track Funky Music Sho Nuff Turns Me On by the Temps on Disc 70 states that it was recorded Live at the Funky Monkey. Does anyone know if the entire concert recording ever appeared anywhere? I see where it also says in the liner notes that its really a studio recording, but it really sounds like a live recording. Anyone have any thoughts?

I don't think this was a true "live" recording, Whitfield has dubbed in an audience to give the track a "live" atmosphere. IMHO He did the same with the Yvonne Fair track of the same song.

[Nothing But Soul]

As several SDF posters have already pointed out, there was no longer a "Motown sound" per se by 1972. I guess it's not surprising then that some of my favorite tracks on this set sound like they came from other labels. The Sisters Love tracks would have been right at home on Stax, and Blinky's bluesy take on "Money" would have fit right in on one of the Stan Lewis labels [[Jewel, Paula, etc.).

It's worth noting also that there are two Junior Walker B-sides on this set that have not appeared on CD before. And, given the little interest shown on the part of Universal [[or any other label for that matter) in reissuing Junior's 70s Motown recordings, this set may well be the only time these tracks are issued on CD [[albeit in mono).

[gordy_hunk]

Finally, I get to hear some of these tracks which have alluded me all these years.

I appreciate that many of the tracks may not have been commercially hit singles, but listening to the variety of tracks on here now, I realise why I became a serious Motown collector.

Tracks by the Devastating Affair [[I've never heard 'My place' before); Thelma Houston [[No one's gonna be a fool forever);

Jr Walker's 'Walk in the night' - just pure bliss. 4 Tops 'Simple game' just oozed passion and no wonder it became their second biggest hit in my country; Temptations 'Take a look around' a turning point [[for me) of the group just being a singles act, to an album focus; J5 heading towards serious pop music 'lookin' through the windows'; the most beautiful person at Motown - Syreeta and 'to know you is to love you and of course, the final Marvelettes single - A breath taking guy.

This collection is just packed with delightful tracks - and well done on HW in finally getting this set out to us.

[144man]

I wonder why so many of the labels pictured are promo versions rather than commercial copies.

[mjdestiny]

Volume 12B ?
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Motown/dp/B00F4386VS/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1378914674&sr=1-1&keywords=motown

[kenneth]

I wonder why so many of the labels pictured are promo versions rather than commercial copies.

Well, they're usually more collectible I think. Another reason may be that a lot of them didn't sell a lot, so the stock [[commercial) copies may be harder to find.

[carole cucumber]

Volume 12B ?
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Motown/dp/B00F4386VS/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1378914674&sr=1-1&keywords=motown

You may be on to something...
Keith Hughes posted that 'The Artistry of Brenda Holloway" Ace/Kent cd should be released in late October, with the last volume of TCMSC following shortly thereafter, [[if all goes as planned).