Nick and Val

[masterblaster]

In 1973, a Nicholas Ashford and Valerie Simpson album entitled "Nick & Val" was scheduled for release on Tamla [[T324L). Has anything ever been released from this album or is the entire album still lurking in the vaults?

I would have thought that Motown would have wanted to cash in on this release following the couples success after they left the company and I am sure a there would be a market for it now, particularly since Nicks demise.

[carole cucumber]

In 1973, a Nicholas Ashford and Valerie Simpson album entitled "Nick & Val" was scheduled for release on Tamla [[T324L). Has anything ever been released from this album or is the entire album still lurking in the vaults?

I would have thought that Motown would have wanted to cash in on this release following the couples success after they left the company and I am sure a there would be a market for it now, particularly since Nicks demise.

When Hip-O-Select was initiated, Harry Weinger had hoped to make the Nick & Val album one of its first releases. However, Valerie and/or Nick did not want the album to see release.
As far as I know Val's desire to keep the album vaulted still holds.

[RossHolloway]

When Hip-O-Select was initiated, Harry Weinger had hoped to make the Nick & Val album one of its first releases. However, Valerie and/or Nick did not want the album to see release.
As far as I know Val's desire to keep the album vaulted still holds.

My theory is that Valerie is still sounding like Tammi Terrell on this album and does not want it release. Those recordings are 40 years old at this point, why would she not want them released?

[thisoldheart]

My theory is that Valerie is still sounding like Tammi Terrell on this album and does not want it release. Those recordings are 40 years old at this point, why would she not want them released?
the answer is in your question. isn't this the album where they sing hits they wrote for marvin & tammi? simpson has been lying for so long, we will never see this in her lifetime!

[RossHolloway]

That theory makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Valerie had two solo lps [[which were fantastic and underrated and sound almost nothing like Tammi) prior to the Nick and Val album. If that were the case, the solo records would of been vaulted as well.

So what's your theory?

[jboy88]

My theory is that Valerie is still sounding like Tammi Terrell on this album and does not want it release. Those recordings are 40 years old at this point, why would she not want them released?
That theory makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Valerie had two solo lps [[which were fantastic and underrated and sound almost nothing like Tammi) prior to the Nick and Val album. If that were the case, the solo records would of been vaulted as well.

[jboy88]

I never really considered it. But it could be because Nick and Val weren't satisfied with the finished product. The tracklisting is available on DFTMC in case anyone's curious.

[carole cucumber]

A side question.... How is post # 5 able to reply with quote from post #6 when post #6 is timed 3 minutes after post #5?

[jboy88]

I deleted the post because I didn't do the right option. I rarely post on here anymore so i forgot a few things

[RossHolloway]

A side question.... How is post # 5 able to reply with quote from post #6 when post #6 is timed 3 minutes after post #5?

That sounds like an SAT question lol

[RossHolloway]

I never really considered it. But it could be because Nick and Val weren't satisfied with the finished product. The tracklisting is available on DFTMC in case anyone's curious.

What is the album listed under? And with all the unreleased tracks that have come out in the past 25+ years by Ashford and Simpson, I'm sure not all the tracks were to their liking or standard, but none the less have been released. Why is Valarie so adament about this one particular project?

[thisoldheart]

the two released simpson albums are how i came to learn the similarities between her solo singing voice and her tammi terrel-like singing voice. i wish simpson would stop her 40+ year charade!

[RossHolloway]

the two released simpson albums are how i came to learn the similarities between her solo singing voice and her tammi terrel-like singing voice. i wish simpson would stop her 40+ year charade!

Well I think there is a strong financial incentive to keep up with the charade lol But no matter I still love all of Marvin's and Tammi's/Valerie's duets.

[Motown4Ever518]

As a disclaimer I must say that my feelings about A & S are such that I would describe my feelings towards my wife and her feelings towards me as an Ashford and Simpson type love affair. The best way to describe it would be to listen to any of the A+S classic Motown productions, Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing, comes to mind as I am writing this, with the strings, and flutes and voices it's almost as a Hollywood musical.

That said, I think coming off her two solo LP's that would have been promoted like there was no tomorrow by any other company on the planet, Valerie Simpson was at the zenith of her singing. Nick may he Rest In Peace, as evidenced by the first Warner Bros LP Give Me Something Real, was still establishing his style. I love the brother very much, but some of his singing on that disc, especially compared to where Ms. Simpson was vocally at the time, had me feeling bad for Mr. Ashford. Therefore my take is that the total vocal performance was not as good as what the pair would eventually produce at a time when being able to sing mattered.

[R. Mark Desjardins]

Motown4Ever518,
Your thoughts on a possible reason why Valerie Simpson wishes her Motown duet album with Nick Ashford remain vaulted make a lot of sense. Berry Gordy must of had reservations himself about releasing the recording, or he surely would have do so when he was in control. Diehard fans will always pine for the "holy grail," but I'm sure there are very valid reasons for Valerie to feel so strongly about this. One can only imagine.......

[thomas96]

Has anyone seen any of the tracks pop up on acetate or test pressing any where? In '72/'73 there had to have been many tests made and they can't have all been destroyed...

[jobeterob]

Several times we have heard artists object to some of what is released saying the quality was not what they wanted at the time and they did not want it released then, nor do they now. I would buy that as the reason for the non release. But this is one album I sure wish they would release.

[BayouMotownMan]

This was a catalog-planned issue, but many times Motown would schedule a release complete with title when the particular album was either not assembled or unfinished. Harry Weinger would be the go-to person on this. To my recollection, Gordy agreed to this album in an effort to retain A&S for Motown as they were courting other offers because, like many artists at Motown at the time, they felt they were not being compensated accordingly. The song Remember Me was intended to be Valerie's first solo release, but Gordy convinced them to do it on Ross. There may not be finished tracks on Nick and Val together to do a whole lp. HW would know.

When Nick and Val became hot on Warners, Motown quickly issued the lp "Keep It Coming" on Val, a collection of her solo tracks in or around 1977.

[thomas96]

This was a catalog-planned issue, but many times Motown would schedule a release complete with title when the particular album was either not assembled or unfinished. Harry Weinger would be the go-to person on this. To my recollection, Gordy agreed to this album in an effort to retain A&S for Motown as they were courting other offers because, like many artists at Motown at the time, they felt they were not being compensated accordingly. The song Remember Me was intended to be Valerie's first solo release, but Gordy convinced them to do it on Ross. There may not be finished tracks on Nick and Val together to do a whole lp. HW would know.

Thats very true, maybe there is no album at all...

[carole cucumber]

Either Harry Weinger, Andy Skurow, or George Solomon commented not all that long ago [[in a post while being interviewed on Nightflight) that he really would like to see the Nick and Val album released. I don't think any of them would have said so if there was not a complete album master in the vaults.
It's likely that one or all three have heard the tapes and feel that they are not substandard.

[thomas96]

Either Harry Weinger, Andy Skurow, or George Solomon commented not all that long ago [[in a post while being interviewed on Nightflight) that he really would like to see the Nick and Val album released. I don't think any of them would have said so if there was not a complete album master in the vaults.
It's likely that one or all three have heard the tapes and feel that they are not substandard.

Do we know if Valerie has the tapes, or just the right to say "you can't release it" and the tapes are in the vaults?

[carole cucumber]

Do we know if Valerie has the tapes, or just the right to say "you can't release it" and the tapes are in the vaults?

I can't answer that question as I've never seen/heard that part addressed. But it does seem odd that Hip-O-Select would consider issuing the album so early after its formation if Valerie possessed the tapes.
One would think that a company would opt to release recordings it owned before licensing something from another company/party.
Perhaps you've hit upon another factor, springing from BayouMotownMan's recollections. If Berry Gordy allowed the recording of the Nick & Val album in an effort to keep them at Motown, one might assume there were sour grapes when they left. Perhaps they wanted to "borrow" the masters so as to produce copies to distribute to companies they were courting/companies that were courting them to show just what they were capable of as a performing duo. Or perhaps they asked to buy the masters and Berry said no. That may be a contributing factor to Valerie's reluctance to allow the album to be released.

[RossHolloway]

As a disclaimer I must say that my feelings about A & S are such that I would describe my feelings towards my wife and her feelings towards me as an Ashford and Simpson type love affair. The best way to describe it would be to listen to any of the A+S classic Motown productions, Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing, comes to mind as I am writing this, with the strings, and flutes and voices it's almost as a Hollywood musical.

That said, I think coming off her two solo LP's that would have been promoted like there was no tomorrow by any other company on the planet, Valerie Simpson was at the zenith of her singing. Nick may he Rest In Peace, as evidenced by the first Warner Bros LP Give Me Something Real, was still establishing his style. I love the brother very much, but some of his singing on that disc, especially compared to where Ms. Simpson was vocally at the time, had me feeling bad for Mr. Ashford. Therefore my take is that the total vocal performance was not as good as what the pair would eventually produce at a time when being able to sing mattered.

Interesting theory, I never thought about the singing quality angle.

[Motown4Ever518]

Anyone who has had the misfortune of hearing me sing in the shower would wonder where I managed to acquire the nerve to comment on another human beings singing, so again, I am not suggesting that Nicks vocal was not up to par, just that at the time perhaps it paled in comparison to Ms. Simpsons singing ability. If you think about it, we can all agree that Mr. Gordy was interested in sales, yes? Perhaps he did not see sales from this project. And yes all of a sudden Motown developed an interest in the two back catalog items from Ms. Simpson in the mid seventies a couple 3-4 years after she and Mr. Ashford had left the company and enjoyed success with Warner Bros.

[RossHolloway]

Anyone who has had the misfortune of hearing me sing in the shower would wonder where I managed to acquire the nerve to comment on another human beings singing, so again, I am not suggesting that Nicks vocal was not up to par, just that at the time perhaps it paled in comparison to Ms. Simpsons singing ability. If you think about it, we can all agree that Mr. Gordy was interested in sales, yes? Perhaps he did not see sales from this project. And yes all of a sudden Motown developed an interest in the two back catalog items from Ms. Simpson in the mid seventies a couple 3-4 years after she and Mr. Ashford had left the company and enjoyed success with Warner Bros.

So what year did A&S actually leave Motown? And what two albums were released by VS after she left?

[Motown4Ever518]

Off the top of my head, the Valerie Simpson Solo Albums were released 71-72- ish. Valerie had had a turn on Bridge Over Troubled Waters on a Quincy Jones Set. The first Warner Bros Duet Album came out in 1973. By the time that the album had come out, I believe both Glaydas Knight and The Pips and the Four Tops as well as the Spinners had had huge sales upon leaving Motown around the same time. A fact that may not have been lost on A+S, they already saw Vals albums not promoted. The question then becomes are there any unreleased Valerie Simpson solo tapes in the vault?

[luke]

I thought I read that one reason they left Motown was that their album didnt come out. Gimme Something Real is one of my all time fave records--it's the blend of their voices with their symphonic like music that gives me the chills. I just love the lyrics to Gimme Something Real as well.

[Motown4Ever518]

I do have a life that involves not commenting on every post on this thread, really.

Luke, given what you stated about GMSR, and I agree with you, what do you you think Mr. Gordys response to the album Gimme Something Real would have been had the finished lp been presented to him back in 1973? He might have released it to keep the duo in the fold, and enjoyed it personally as it back to back to back......contains outstanding songs, but it was certainly different than anything coming out of MoWest.

I think you nailed it with regards to Nicks voice as a backup singer, with the backup harmonies being another instrument. Reference the Ms. Ross productions that they sang backup on, I am smiling just thinking about how beautiful it is. More importantly, I was not at the sessions, but I can hear them smiling while singing those backgrounds.

[captainjames]

For some reason this what I remember as well. Motown wanted Val as a single artist but Nick and Val wanted them as a duo. Don't know why I remember that but I do.



I thought I read that one reason they left Motown was that their album didnt come out. Gimme Something Real is one of my all time fave records--it's the blend of their voices with their symphonic like music that gives me the chills. I just love the lyrics to Gimme Something Real as well.