Itm

[dvus7]

Better known as, INTERNATIONAL TALENT MANAGMENT......Can somebody please inform me as to "who" received most of the profit from this corporation, besides Mr. Gordy??? Please inform me!!!

[jobeterob]

Better known as, INTERNATIONAL TALENT MANAGMENT......Can somebody please inform me as to "who" received most of the profit from this corporation, besides Mr. Gordy??? Please inform me!!!

At one stage, you could probably search in the appropriate Corporate Registry and find some information and do further searches at it's Registered Office ~ but this was commonly regarded as the Motown Management Company; if it was wholely owned by Motown Record Corporation and Berry was the only shareholder ~ it would not be MOST of the profit, but it would be ALL of the profit went to Mr. Gordy.

Did Motown Record Corporation have any other shareholders?

[dvus7]

At one stage, you could probably search in the appropriate Corporate Registry and find some information and do further searches at it's Registered Office ~ but this was commonly regarded as the Motown Management Company; if it was wholely owned by Motown Record Corporation and Berry was the only shareholder ~ it would not be MOST of the profit, but it would be ALL of the profit went to Mr. Gordy.

Did Motown Record Corporation have any other shareholders?

Yes...Smokey & Esther Edwards, from my understanding!!!

[jobeterob]

Yes...Smokey & Esther Edwards, from my understanding!!!

Then if Motown Record Corporation owned all of ITM, Smokey & Esther owned part of ITM.

Who owned Jobete? That was the cash cow in the end.

[dvus7]

Then if Motown Record Corporation owned all of ITM, Smokey & Esther owned part of ITM.

Who owned Jobete? That was the cash cow in the end.

From my understanding Berry owned that solely!!!

[thomas96]

Are we sure BG, Esther, and Smokey were the only shareholders? Are there any sources to confirm this? I'm just curious, because while I could see those three being the main ones, wouldn't someone like Harvey Fuqua own some shares from when they combined Harvey/Tri-Phi with Motown?

[dvus7]

Are we sure BG, Esther, and Smokey were the only shareholders? Are there any sources to confirm this? I'm just curious, because while I could see those three being the main ones, wouldn't someone like Harvey Fuqua own some shares from when they combined Harvey/Tri-Phi with Motown?


I'm pretty sure that Mr. Fuque received some points on all those artists that were on Harvey/Tri-Phi!!!!

[jobeterob]

I think some book did some research on this ~ maybe Miss Ray or maybe it was in Berry's book. My only memory is that it was Berry only as shareholder and Miss Ray thought she was supposed to be there ~ but the beginning documents for Motown showed Berry only; or maybe Berry and Esther.

I think the public is allowed to do some historical searches to see what they show; and you might be able to find out the Directors; but you might not be able to find out the shareholders.

[kenneth]

I think some book did some research on this ~ maybe Miss Ray or maybe it was in Berry's book. My only memory is that it was Berry only as shareholder and Miss Ray thought she was supposed to be there ~ but the beginning documents for Motown showed Berry only; or maybe Berry and Esther.

I think the public is allowed to do some historical searches to see what they show; and you might be able to find out the Directors; but you might not be able to find out the shareholders.

I don't recall if she discusses that, but I thought Miss Ray's was one of the best books about Motown I ever read.

[dvus7]

Can anybody inform me as to when ITM was shut down???

[reese]

Are we sure BG, Esther, and Smokey were the only shareholders? Are there any sources to confirm this? I'm just curious, because while I could see those three being the main ones, wouldn't someone like Harvey Fuqua own some shares from when they combined Harvey/Tri-Phi with Motown?

The following info comes from Peter Benjamin's book THE STORY OF MOTOWN.

In the early days, some of Berry's family members might have owned some of the company's 1000 shares. But by the mid60s, they were all back in Berry's pocket.

In 1972 and 1974, Berry increased the number of outstanding shares to 4,955. He gave 236 shares [[approximately $1 million) to Esther Edwards, and gave 235 shares to Smokey. This left Berry owning 4,484.

At one point, it was thought that Berry would sell shares to the public. At the last minute, he changed his mind, and many executives who had planned to purchase stock at a low price, quit in disgust.

[jobeterob]

Reese:

Did Berry also own all of Jobete and ITM?

Or did Motown own Jobete & ITM? If Berry owned all of Motown and Motown owned all of Jobete, he was the only game in town.

[reese]

Reese:

Did Berry also own all of Jobete and ITM?

Or did Motown own Jobete & ITM? If Berry owned all of Motown and Motown owned all of Jobete, he was the only game in town.

I believe so.

[ralpht]

Yes, Berry owned Jobette. That was the beauty of the initial sale of Motown to MCA. The sale did not include the Jobette catalogue. I'll bet Berry was hysterical all the way to the bank.

[jobeterob]

Berry was so lucky sometimes ~ as in how could he possibly have known when he sold Motown to MCA that catalogues would end up virtually worthless in terms of selling CDS within about 15 years? And he got $61 million for that!

But as much as he was lucky, he also some traits in his stars that he was able to nurture and develop and turn out so many giants of music from Detroit ~ some of the voices weren't the strongest, but he made them so special. And he was able to push them in the right direction and turned out Diana and Michael and Smokey and Marvin and Lionel as well as the Temptations and Four Tops.

[Roberta75]

Yes, Berry owned Jobette. That was the beauty of the initial sale of Motown to MCA. The sale did not include the Jobette catalogue. I'll bet Berry was hysterical all the way to the bank.

Mr Gordy was a real smart businessman Ralph wasnt he.

Fondly,

Roberta

[dvus7]

Berry was so lucky sometimes ~ as in how could he possibly have known when he sold Motown to MCA that catalogues would end up virtually worthless in terms of selling CDS within about 15 years? And he got $61 million for that!

But as much as he was lucky, he also some traits in his stars that he was able to nurture and develop and turn out so many giants of music from Detroit ~ some of the voices weren't the strongest, but he made them so special. And he was able to push them in the right direction and turned out Diana and Michael and Smokey and Marvin and Lionel as well as the Temptations and Four Tops.

@jobeterob...I don't know what would prompt you to SAY THAT....Boston Ventures & MCA sold it for 300 million!!!!

[jobeterob]

Well they were smart enough to unload it pretty fast and the next buyer "bit" it. Perhaps those companies diversified fast enough and had enough other interests to weather the collapse of CD sales.

Who did Boston Ventures and MCA sell to?

The continued amalgamations and swallowing up of these companies indicate that they were in a sunset industry.

Berry only seems to have netted about $400 million for Jobete and Motown; a decent return on $800 still.

[supremester]

The brilliance of ITM was that the percentage it collected off performance fees was off the top. Then, as in the case of DR&TS & the Tempts, add'l percentages went to Mr Gordy for "personal management." Other personal managers, such as Shelly Berger, also got paid after ITM. Also, Motown's booking agency got it's fee for every concert, TV appearance, film role etc. THEN, "expenses" for travel, food, lodging, band, music etc were deducted from performance fees. That is why many artists had no money even though they worked like dogs. Case in point: it has been stated that The Supremes were paid $600 per week for Dick Clark's tour. DMF & Mrs. Ross could have eaten high on the hog for $20 a day plus, maybe $30 for nicer Motel rooms per day, makes their road cost $350 per week - and that's for 2 motel rooms per night plus eating way above the 40 cents needed for a burger, fry and coke at Mc Donalds. They had no musician costs. Those were their expenses, toured for nearly 3 months and didn't get a dime. Baby, Baby, where did that other $250 a week go? of course, no one pressed the question. DMF came off the road at #1, were probably given a few hundred from royalties and never asked another question. It's not my nature to accept this kind of inadequate explanation of payment, but, I can see how not everyone thinks the same. [[When I asked not-exactly-free-with-a-buck-Mary about her royalties, she has no idea what specifically they are from and doesn't ask. She gets the check, cashes it and that's it. So if Red Hot appears on a compilation, she doesn't know if she's compensated for it or not.) This practice was eventually deemed unfair and illegal. Ask Martha, The Marvelettes, The Velvelettes, Brenda, Monitors, Chris Clark how much they made ..........

[jobeterob]

There has to be some validity to that point of view, Supremester. You can tell from this forum over the years that there are a lot of angry ex-Motown people out there.

[supremester]

For me,he fairness of Motown's financial relationship with it's artists is a curious paradox. On one hand, especially in the days before 1965, Motown needed every dime to continue to build and develop acts, infrastructure and legalities. After the fourth quarter of '64 - with huge money coming in off The Supremes [[10 million units world wide) the seed money to sign & develop acts like Gladys Knight & The Pips was no longer an issue. Yes, it was still a family - but Gordy's sisters were making more than some of the artists. It sickens me that Flo, Mary & Cindy wound up with little. Flo & Cindy were stupid to sign their departure deals and I don't blame Motown at all for that. Mary has what she has now from royalties and her solo work. Miss Ross, after signing the huge RCA deal and taking charge of things herself, came out fine, but she got screwed as well. At some point, after Motown got things rolling, the financials could have been eased a bit for the bigger stars at least. Motown deserved a lot but not everything. Plus, the acts weren't savvy enough to really look after themselves and do stooopid things. Mary still doesn't examine her royalty statements, yet spent "millions" fighting for the name when she never came up with it or even chose it. Why would she have any claim to it at all, and if so, wouldn't Flo, Barbara and Miss Ross all be equal partners in ownership? I'll never understand how they let so much go by without asking questions, but I'd have been counting the boxes of Baby Love 45's going out every day. !

[jobeterob]

Young, unsophisticated, not lots of formal education at a time when the world was a lot more naïve than it is now. No internet. Perhaps not enough lawyers.

Anyone that has been on this Forum for a few years can see the spillover anger at what happened. It's so odd because publicly, singing the praises of Berry never ends ~ but so many people came out with so little.

[dvus7]

The brilliance of ITM was that the percentage it collected off performance fees was off the top. Then, as in the case of DR&TS & the Tempts, add'l percentages went to Mr Gordy for "personal management." Other personal managers, such as Shelly Berger, also got paid after ITM. Also, Motown's booking agency got it's fee for every concert, TV appearance, film role etc. THEN, "expenses" for travel, food, lodging, band, music etc were deducted from performance fees. That is why many artists had no money even though they worked like dogs. Case in point: it has been stated that The Supremes were paid $600 per week for Dick Clark's tour. DMF & Mrs. Ross could have eaten high on the hog for $20 a day plus, maybe $30 for nicer Motel rooms per day, makes their road cost $350 per week - and that's for 2 motel rooms per night plus eating way above the 40 cents needed for a burger, fry and coke at Mc Donalds. They had no musician costs. Those were their expenses, toured for nearly 3 months and didn't get a dime. Baby, Baby, where did that other $250 a week go? of course, no one pressed the question. DMF came off the road at #1, were probably given a few hundred from royalties and never asked another question. It's not my nature to accept this kind of inadequate explanation of payment, but, I can see how not everyone thinks the same. [[When I asked not-exactly-free-with-a-buck-Mary about her royalties, she has no idea what specifically they are from and doesn't ask. She gets the check, cashes it and that's it. So if Red Hot appears on a compilation, she doesn't know if she's compensated for it or not.) This practice was eventually deemed unfair and illegal. Ask Martha, The Marvelettes, The Velvelettes, Brenda, Monitors, Chris Clark how much they made ..........

Some of these groups were spending LIKE they were Millionaires!!!! Even today, It happens!!!Motown became a "loan company" with HIGH interest rates, after it was a record company!

[jobeterob]

Dvus7 makes the point that rarely is raised ~ the money came in easy and it went out easy.

What is the responsibility of Motown to those people that worked for it? Is it morally responsible for those people that worked for them or recorded for them 40 years ago? Is it responsible for those people that did not save or spend wisely? Is it responsible for those people that did not receive proper credit for songs written? Is it responsible for those who willingly signed away their rights to royalties for lump sum payments?

Generally the legal answer is no. Morally some people feel differently.

I'm sure Berry and Diana and Stevie and Lionel and Smokey get requests nearly every day, many genuinely needy, for assistance ~ financial and otherwise.

Is there a moral obligation to help?

There was a recent thread on here about Stevie Wonder being asked for money ~ it sounded genuine, needy, and there definitely was a Stevie Wonder connection from the past. And I believe the Stevie Wonder camp response was something like "we are aware of the situation".

The dark side of the "family".

[smark21]

When some of the Motown acts began to hit really big both on the charts and in live venues, I wonder if any of the big show business agents, managers and lawyers sent out feelers to the acts and what measures Motown took to prevent them from luring their stars away from the in house managers and bookers?

[stephanie]

I truly believe Motown couldnt pony up the amount of money Diana Ross was getting from the RCA offer. Smokey and Berry would have kept her but it would have put the company in bankruptcy. Her live shows Im sure were bringing in tons of money but I never understood how when she was still at Motown she was able to have ANAID? I thought that Berry didnt allow people to have production companies at Motown and things like that. Maybe since Ross was not a writer he didnt care.

[jobeterob]

I truly believe Motown couldnt pony up the amount of money Diana Ross was getting from the RCA offer. Smokey and Berry would have kept her but it would have put the company in bankruptcy. Her live shows Im sure were bringing in tons of money but I never understood how when she was still at Motown she was able to have ANAID? I thought that Berry didnt allow people to have production companies at Motown and things like that. Maybe since Ross was not a writer he didnt care.


Did she have ANAID while she was at Motown or did it start when she left?

I feel you are right; Motown, the company, would have been compromised by giving her $20 Million.

[reese]

Did she have ANAID while she was at Motown or did it start when she left?

I feel you are right; Motown, the company, would have been compromised by giving her $20 Million.

She started JFF [[Just For Fun) as well as Diana Ross Enterprises while at Motown. I believe Anaid came during the RCA years.