Move Over Toys! Move Over Tchaikovsky! It's BRENDA & PATRICE HOLLOWAY & PATTY HUNT

[Methuselah2]

The Wooden Nickels*/SHOULD I GIVE MY LOVE TONIGHT [1965]

Adapted by Chester Pipkin from Tchaikovsky's PIANO CONCERTO IN B-FLAT MINOR

[[But it's a pretty 'sharp' tune.)

Many thanks to Wash Lively for this rare and wonderful YouTube posting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqqHGgQJjCE

____________
*Reportedly: Brenda Holloway, Patrice Holloway, & Patty Hunt.

[theboyfromxtown]

Methuselah2

If I could award a prize for the greatest find - my vote would go to you. Well done!!

[RossHolloway]

Here's a second song by the group. Does anyone know the back story to these songs or what the Wooden Nickles were all about. In the liner notes to the Patrice Holloway collection Brenda did speak about moonlighting in California during her time with Motown.


http://youtu.be/i4y9fZANE0M

[luke]

Very motownesque! Is Brenda on lead?

[blueskies]

Wow....to have a whole LP of their material would have been great. Love the sound.

[thisoldheart]

"nobody but you" ... what is the release date on this? curious ...

[Methuselah2]

It was 1965.

And more Brenda & Patrice & Patty from that same year--but this time as

The Sequins/I'LL BE SATISFIED [1965]:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMynT77Xrvk

Thank you Anthony Reichardt for this rare, great posting on YouTube.

[RossHolloway]

How could Berry Gordy and Motown not know that Brenda was moonlighting??

[johnny_raven]

And another by The Sequins ... "Hey Romeo"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=9XjJjs7t-bM&NR=1

[robb_k]

6607
This Sequins group was from Chicago, and had nothing to do with the L.A. group on A & M Records.

[danman869]

I don't think that's the same Sequins as Brenda, Patrice and Patty. Plus, it's from 1970.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrvqtzfGOfc

[splanky]

I'm not sold on the Wooden Nickels being Brenda and Patrice yet and I definitely know the
Sequins who sang "Hey Romeo" didn't have the Holloway sisters in their line up....

[robb_k]

6609
I agree, Splanky. The Lead on "Nobody But You" sounds only very slightly like Brenda Holloway. The "Tone" of voice of each person is unique. People in the same families have similar tones [[Dionne/Dee Dee Warwick/-Cissy/Whitney Houston), but even identical twins have different tones. The tone of the lead of The Wooden Nickels sounds different from Brenda's. I'd bet against that being her, and I don't hear Patrice or Pat Hunt in the background. I was around at the time, and The Wooden Nickles appeared in L.A. They couldn't have hidden the fact that Brenda was making appearances with a group that had a West Coast hit. Furthermore, I seem to remember seeing a poster advert with their photo, and Brenda wasn't on it. I NEVER heard that Brenda, Patrice and Pat Hunt were The Wooden Nickels. They HAD been The Watesians, who had a local hit out on Bob Keane's Donna Records, in late 1963, before Brenda signed with Motown.

Regarding The Sequins on A&M, -that is a possibility. That group may have been just a "studio group", in which Brenda, and Patrice could "moonlight" for Frank Wilson and Mark Gordon, who did NOT yet have exclusive contracts with Motown in 1965. Their contracts allowed them to have side projects [[Mary Love-Modern, Pat Hunt-Kent). Frank Wilson had a release under an assumed name on A&M during that time. The A&M Sequins could have been the moonlighting to which Brenda was referring [[if not, then she was referring only to backing up other L.A. artists on their non-Motown records).

[Methuselah2]

I'm not sure how much the following will add to this conversation--it might only raise more questions, more doubts--but I submit it for what I hope will be what it's worth. It certainly seems like fruitful, detailed information to me and it may lead to uncovering more music for those interested in investigating further. In other words, the chase continues:

This following link contains Brenda & Patrice info; its last section mentions a lot of interesting recording data:

http://planetbarberella.blogspot.com/2011/04/brenda-holloway-and-patrice.html?m=1

Plus, here are 2 tunes mentioned in the link--

The Four J's/THE NURSERY [1963]:

Written by Priscilla Kennedy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4z-8y2sS0

and

The Four J's/WILL YOU BE MY LOVE [1963]:

Written by R. Gross & Vincent Love

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWkW9yUNr4k

Thank you to DooWop Darrell for both of these posted tunes.

[robb_k]

6613
Notice that The 4 Js and Sequins are included on those lists, but NOT The Wooden Nickels!

[Methuselah2]

Robb - I did notice The Wooden Nickels' omission. It's just difficult to know what that means. My thinking is if it was deliberate, that in itself would have warranted a mention as to the omission. It's just not possible to know the writer's rationale at this point.

As to the voices we're hearing on these recordings, I'm not seasoned enough to know exactly who's who. But I will say I haven't heard anyone who sounds like Brenda to me. But that certainly doesn't rule her out from being there. Perhaps with other obligations, that was intentional. Of course another possible answer: It's not her or Patrice or Patty--not any of them. That could be, too. I'm just not in a position to say so based on what my ear is able to decipher. With just a soloist, it might be possible to pinpoint with more assurance. But dealing with a group makes it much harder to get at. In my original posting of the thread, I used the word "Reportedly" in reference to the singers specified. I'm skeptical and have some doubts of my own. The only thing I can say flat-out is: I'm really taken with SHOULD I GIVE MY LOVE TONIGHT. I think it's extremely well done. And clever. Very much--and beautifully--of its time. Perhaps it's Patrice or Patty on lead. Or perhaps it's not for the simple, possible reason that they weren't there. I sure would like to know. But that might not be possible until someone steps up who knows because he or she was there and involved with the recordings. To paraphrase The Marvelettes: "The Truth's Outside My Thread." And, yet again, maybe it's already in it.

[keith_hughes]

A couple of points on the lead vocal. First, you can always tell Brenda from the breathing: she takes [[no giggling) BIG BREATHS. But the moment I was sure was when I heard the falsetto. Brenda rarely attempts those leaps, and when she does, she sounds entirely different.

[RossHolloway]

A couple of points on the lead vocal. First, you can always tell Brenda from the breathing: she takes [[no giggling) BIG BREATHS. But the moment I was sure was when I heard the falsetto. Brenda rarely attempts those leaps, and when she does, she sounds entirely different.

So is it your opinion that it is Brenda on these songs or not?

[brother_love]

66166615

I once played The Wooden Nickles 45 for Brenda and she said that she was not on that record. Now when it come to "I'll Be Staisfied" the fact that Brenda and Patrice co-wrote the song along with Chester Pipkins makes it more likely that they just maybe on this one. If you notice Chester Pipkins was also involed as the producer and person who adapted the song on the Omen single which was also a division of A&M Records.:confused:

[Methuselah2]

Brother Love - Thank you very much for that info. Really interesting. Although Brenda told you she was not on SHOULD I GIVE MY LOVE TONIGHT, would you happen to know if she had actually been associated with The Wooden Nickels group?

[brother_love]

No I don't believe so.
Brother Love - Thank you very much for that info. Really interesting. Although Brenda told you she was not on SHOULD I GIVE MY LOVE TONIGHT, would you happen to know if she had actually been associated with The Wooden Nickels group?

[robb_k]

6619
But Chester Pipkin could have written "I'll Be Satisfied", together with Patrice and Brenda BEFORE Brenda signed with Motown as a singing artist. The Holloways worked with Hal Davis, Marc Gordon, Frank Wilson, and Chester and Gary Pipkin in L.A.'s Jobete Music office from 1963-1966, when ALL of those producers were given NON-exclusive contracts with Motown [[meaning that they could work on side projects not related to Motown. Furthermore, Brenda and Patrice only signed artist contracts with Motown records. So, they were legally free to write songs for other people. The A&M work by Frank Wilson and Chester and Gary Pipkin was totally above board because of their non-exclusive producer/writer contracts. As The Holloways didn't have exclusive songwriter contracts with Motown [[unlike Morris Broadnax, Janie Bradford, HDH, Mickey Stevenson, Ivy Hunter, etc., who did), they could certainly join those legally moonlighting producers in non-Motown songwriting. I think The Holloway sisters may have co-written that song, and not necessarily sung on the recording. Incidentally, the Frank Wilson record on A&M was likely written and recorded in late 1965 or early 1966, while Wilson still had his NON-exclusive producer/writer contract with Motown, and before he was signed to his exclusive producer/writer contract in 1966, and brought to Detroit.

I don't think The Holloway sisters sang on The Wooden Nickels' cuts, and I have doubts that they sang on The Sequins' cuts. I suspect that both Brenda and Patrice may have sung, along with Pat Hunt, back-up on some independent L.A. Soul productions while they had exclusive singing artist contracts with Motown.

[Methuselah2]

Gosh, Robb, that's wonderful insight. Thank you for that. It spurred me on to look further for The Wooden Nickels. I came across a discussion that mentioned Dorothy Berry, Oma Heard, and Zelpha Crawford as possibly being the group but it was not conclusive or corroborated. [[I think I just might start spelling that 'corROBBorated'--with your knowledge and careful, considered observations, your word often turns out to be a defining one. And I appreciate it. It's needed to set the 'record' straight. Thank you.)