Marvin & Tammi's Easy album

[thomas96]

Who really sang the vocals for Tammi's part? Marvin said it was Valerie, Valerie has insisted it was Tammi. Also, how sick was Tammi at this time? Was she too sick to sing? I'm just curious. It sounds like Tammi, but Valerie can sound like Tammi as well.

[marv2]

Who really sang the vocals for Tammi's part? Marvin said it was Valerie, Valerie has insisted it was Tammi. Also, how sick was Tammi at this time? Was she too sick to sing? I'm just curious. It sounds like Tammi, but Valerie can sound like Tammi as well.

I would bet it was Valerie. She did some singing for another artist she wrote and produced for I have heard.........[[smile)! hehehehehehehe......

[I ♥ The Supremes and Temptations]

I hope my opinion doesn't cause too much controversy but is it me or some parts of Your all I need Sound like Valerie...I do think that Tammi sang on that but little ad libs sound like Val?
Am I the only one hears it? Or am I going crazy...

[I ♥ The Supremes and Temptations]

Love Diana but on one of her songs I definitely did hear val...

I would bet it was Valerie. She did some singing for another artist she wrote and produced for I have heard.........[[smile)! hehehehehehehe......

[bradsupremes]

Who really sang the vocals for Tammi's part? Marvin said it was Valerie, Valerie has insisted it was Tammi. Also, how sick was Tammi at this time? Was she too sick to sing? I'm just curious. It sounds like Tammi, but Valerie can sound like Tammi as well.

This has been discussed and debated for some time. Some people feel Tammi is on the Easy album, some believe it's Valerie and others believe it is a blend of both voices.

Let me put it this way... Your brain is a computer for your entire body. It controls everything. If you touch or operate on portions of the brain it can seriously affect how your body functions. If you have nine brain operations to remove a tumor, what are the chances your singing voice will be the same as before those nine operations?

[marv2]

Love Diana but on one of her songs I definitely did hear val...

Could it have been "The Boss"? I'm just asking........hehehehehe~!

[midnightman]

I hear parts of Tammi and Valerie in most of the songs on "Easy". The songs where it sounds like someone is really trying could be Tammi whereas the more confident sounding vocals could've very well had been Valerie's. That said, Marvin and Valerie, as I think about it, weren't wrong in their stories. Tammi was there but not there, ya dig? But, like "[[ain't nobody come to see you)" Otis said, "Tammi was a fighter" so she probably did her hardest to sing on those tracks. Who knows? Marvin, Tammi & Nickolas are not around to explain further [[and even when Nick was alive, Val only talked about it, he remained tight-lipped lol).

[thomas96]

I hear parts of Tammi and Valerie in most of the songs on "Easy". The songs where it sounds like someone is really trying could be Tammi whereas the more confident sounding vocals could've very well had been Valerie's. That said, Marvin and Valerie, as I think about it, weren't wrong in their stories. Tammi was there but not there, ya dig? But, like "[[ain't nobody come to see you)" Otis said, "Tammi was a fighter" so she probably did her hardest to sing on those tracks. Who knows? Marvin, Tammi & Nickolas are not around to explain further [[and even when Nick was alive, Val only talked about it, he remained tight-lipped lol).

Yeah I agree, I hear both and bet Val did some parts, and Tammi did others.

[thomas96]

I hope my opinion doesn't cause too much controversy but is it me or some parts of Your all I need Sound like Valerie...I do think that Tammi sang on that but little ad libs sound like Val?
Am I the only one hears it? Or am I going crazy...

I'll have to listen through it again. I hope that's not the case, but it very well may be.

[captainjames]

What if Val made a promise to Tammi ?

[thisoldheart]

i have no problem with the whole andante bit ... however the scam motown pulled with valerie simpson singing most, if not all of the later "marvin & tammi" hits, including all of "easy" reeks of a berry gordy money grabbing venture. marvin & tammi were hot, and berry took advantage of this for profit. a far nobler thing to do would have been to release the work under "marvin & valerie" with the acknowledgment that the songs were written for tammi, that she was unable to sing them, and that part of the proceeds would go to tammi's health care [[that motown did in fact pay for). this has always been the most underhanded stories in a long list of motown scams.

[theboyfromxtown]

This "Did she/Didn't she" discussion must be coming up for its 45th anniversary soon!

Older than some of the posters on here. lol

[midnight johnny]

This "Did she/Didn't she" discussion must be coming up for its 45th anniversary soon!

Older than some of the posters on here. lol

........sigh.......................

[captainjames]

double sigh.............................................. .........:confused:


........sigh.......................

[Kamasu_Jr]

This "Did she/Didn't she" discussion must be coming up for its 45th anniversary soon!

Older than some of the posters on here. lol That was funny but it's so true. This has been discussed as much as Flo and the damned Supremes. Listen to Love Woke Me Up this Morning on Easy which is supposed to be by Marvin and "Tammi" and then listen to the song again [[if you have it) by Valerie Simpson. Let me know what YOUR EARS tell you.

[RossHolloway]

Personally I think that Valerie is on more tracks by Marvin & Tammi even before the Easy album.

[midnightman]

Haha @ "Flo and the damned Supremes". You got a point.

I actually hear Valerie's voice on "What You Gave Me" and "How You Gonna Keep It". Not too sure about "Good Lovin' Ain't Easy to Come By"... it sounds like BOTH of them lol

[jobeterob]

Maybe new people haven't had the discussion a lot of times. And maybe they have and want to have it again. And maybe there is new info! Ya, right. But I will go listen to the two songs suggested and see if my computer is working or if it is older than the songs and failing.

All I was ever left to wonder is why Valerie denies much if any involvement; but perhaps she is one of the loyal, polite, Motown types.

[Motown Eddie]

Who really sang the vocals for Tammi's part? Marvin said it was Valerie, Valerie has insisted it was Tammi. Also, how sick was Tammi at this time? Was she too sick to sing? I'm just curious. It sounds like Tammi, but Valerie can sound like Tammi as well.

According to the interview that Valerie Simpson gave for Tammi Terrell's "UnSung", Valerie only did the guide vocals for Tammi on the "Easy" album.

[BayouMotownMan]

And those are the vocals Motown wound up using for the lp. Valerie is on ten of the twelve tracks. Tammi is on I Can't Believe You Love Me and More, More, More. If you listen closely you can hear the differences in the vocals. Tammi's vocals are less nasal

[jboy88]

I think the deal is that some fans are still stuck on the myth that Tammi was some kind of shut-in for the last two years of her life. Which is something thats been de-bunked numerous occasions. Either that, or they're just not comfortable with the idea of Tammi actually singing through her illness. I brought the Valerie Simpson anthology for the sole purpose of hearing "Love woke me up" and to me the vocals were apples and oranges in comparision.

[RossHolloway]

I think the deal is that some fans are still stuck on the myth that Tammi was some kind of shut-in for the last two years of her life. Which is something thats been de-bunked numerous occasions. Either that, or they're just not comfortable with the idea of Tammi actually singing through her illness. I brought the Valerie Simpson anthology for the sole purpose of hearing "Love woke me up" and to me the vocals were apples and oranges in comparision.

Tammi had 9 BRAIN SURGERIES between the fall of 1967 and the time of her death, so you'll have to excuse some people for being skeptical of Tammi recording songs in DETROIT at the time in question. Anyone else find it curious that Tammi recorded only ONE solo song after her collapse in the fall of 1967, yet "recorded" two more duet albums with Marvin Gaye? I have my doubts. If Motown could substitute the voice of the Supreme's with the Andantes, why would the company be above substituting Valerie Simpson in for a sick Tammi Terrell?

I also think that A LOT of questions would be answered with the release of the unreleased Nic and Val album that's been in the vaults since 1972/3. Something tells me those duet recordings will never see the light of day because Valerie is sounding a bit too much like Tammi on those recordings...

[thanxal]

If Motown could substitute the voice of the Supreme's with the Andantes, why would the company be above substituting Valerie Simpson in for a sick Tammi Terrell?

At this point I'm apt to believe that Michael Jackson was on that soundstage where they filmed the lunar landing. I love all the conspiracies on this forum. Keeps it interesting. My own is that there is a parallel set of WDOLG where Flo sang all the leads.

[RossHolloway]

At this point I'm apt to believe that Michael Jackson was on that soundstage where they filmed the lunar landing. I love all the conspiracies on this forum. Keeps it interesting. My own is that there is a parallel set of WDOLG where Flo sang all the leads.

And why are you so sure that it is all Tammi? Because Motown told you so? lol

[thanxal]

And why are you so sure that it is all Tammi? Because Motown told you so? lol
I'm not. I think its Flo. Barry secretly hired her back for those sessions.

[kenneth]

There was a long thread on this discussion topic a while back, in which someone posted a link to an Ebony cover story in which Tammi - quite thin and recovering from one of her recent surgeries - was heartbreaking to see. Based on the timeline which the article supported, in that Tammi was looking forward to recording again sometime in the future, it would have been nearly impossible for her to record the "Easy" album which me memory tells me would have been almost immediately concurrent with the article's being published, or even prior to that. [[I don't remember all the details, obviously.)

Whether or not it is possible that she recorded some of "Easy" and they wove together a "vocal tapestry," as someone writes in the Tammi Terrell box set, my ears told me she sounded strange on that album, with a heavier, more exaggerated vocal style, even when I bought it when I was 12 or so. Of course, I would have never had the idea that it wasn't her, but I did wonder why she sounded so different. Even back then, it was easy to pick out the 1 or 2 tracks where you could tell it was Tammi [[via an original solo recording such as "I Can't Believe You Love Me") where they just added Marvin's voice to make it a duet.

I admire Valerie Simpson for protecting her friend's privacy all these years later, but after Marvin Gaye revealed it was Val on the album, it all made sense to me.

Finding the older thread with the photos would be interesting to those who haven't seen it. I think the analysis in that thread about the timeline especially was exhaustive.

[RossHolloway]

There was a long thread on this discussion topic a while back, in which someone posted a link to an Ebony cover story in which Tammi - quite thin and recovering from one of her recent surgeries - was heartbreaking to see. Based on the timeline which the article supported, in that Tammi was looking forward to recording again sometime in the future, it would have been nearly impossible for her to record the "Easy" album which me memory tells me would have been almost immediately concurrent with the article's being published, or even prior to that. [[I don't remember all the details, obviously.)

Whether or not it is possible that she recorded some of "Easy" and they wove together a "vocal tapestry," as someone writes in the Tammi Terrell box set, my ears told me she sounded strange on that album, with a heavier, more exaggerated vocal style, even when I bought it when I was 12 or so. Of course, I would have never had the idea that it wasn't her, but I did wonder why she sounded so different. Even back then, it was easy to pick out the 1 or 2 tracks where you could tell it was Tammi [[via an original solo recording such as "I Can't Believe You Love Me") where they just added Marvin's voice to make it a duet.

I admire Valerie Simpson for protecting her friend's privacy all these years later, but after Marvin Gaye revealed it was Val on the album, it all made sense to me.

Finding the older thread with the photos would be interesting to those who haven't seen it. I think the analysis in that thread about the timeline especially was exhaustive.


I remeber that article in Ebony and if my memory is correct Tammi also mentions that she had not done any recording in over 18 MONTHS. And you're right about those pictures of Tammi, they were heartbreaking.

[kenneth]

I remeber that article in Ebony and if my memory is correct Tammi also mentions that she had not done any recording in over 18 MONTHS. And you're right about those pictures of Tammi, they were heartbreaking.

You're right. Now that you mention the 18 month gap, I recall that as well from the article. To me, the reason the article had so much credibility on this issue so many years later is because it was in her own words at the time, where there was no "Easy" album controversy whatsoever.

[carole cucumber]

One heartbreaking revelation in the article was that Tammi & David announced their engagement publicly onstage when they were both appearing at the same theater. She only found out after the fact that that he was already married!
One heartwarming revelation is Tammi's acknowledgement of Berry Gordy's great generosity in taking care of her medical expenses.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZFDqAUi7h-QC&pg=PA94&lr=&rview=1&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

[kenneth]

Wow, Carole, you found the article. What a beautiful article that was. Thanks for the link.

[jboy88]

Tammi had 9 BRAIN SURGERIES between the fall of 1967 and the time of her death, so you'll have to excuse some people for being skeptical of Tammi recording songs in DETROIT at the time in question. Anyone else find it curious that Tammi recorded only ONE solo song after her collapse in the fall of 1967, yet "recorded" two more duet albums with Marvin Gaye? I have my doubts. If Motown could substitute the voice of the Supreme's with the Andantes, why would the company be above substituting Valerie Simpson in for a sick Tammi Terrell?


That's what I mean; the same one-sided selective exposed argument. Any evidence that sugestt Tammi was even was in the room during "easy" is almost completely ignored. Tammi had at least one operation prior to YAINTGB a six month gap between the november session for Good lovin ain't easy to come by. During which there were at least 3 operations. While dftmc has the session dates, we don't know the dates for the surgeries.

More later when im home

[Kamasu_Jr]

... I brought the Valerie Simpson anthology for the sole purpose of hearing "Love woke me up" and to me the vocals were apples and oranges in comparision. The vocals on both songs are done by the same singer. They are almost identical. The singer's style was already intact.

[midnightman]

The vocals on "Easy" do sound nasal...

[RossHolloway]

All one needs to do is compare the songs done by Tammi on her anthology versus those duet songs in question and it's almost shockingly obvious that Tammi is not singing those songs. It's like night and day- One singer is Tammi Terrell and the other one is a singer trying to sound like Tammi Terrell.

[Kamasu_Jr]

All one needs to do is compare the songs done by Tammi on her anthology versus those duet songs in question and it's almost shockingly obvious that Tammi is not singing those songs. It's like night and day- One singer is Tammi Terrell and the other one is a singer trying to sound like Tammi Terrell. You are right.

[jboy88]

you know what, i'm done! Cause I can't deal with being blasted just because I have a different opinion from the majority. I've stated my piece many times, so you can just sort the achieves if your really interested.

[RossHolloway]

you know what, i'm done! Cause I can't deal with being blasted just because I have a different opinion from the majority. I've stated my piece many times, so you can just sort the achieves if your really interested.


We're all individuals here and it's perfectly fine to have a different opinion. People are just expressing their opinions on this one subject and some put more significance on certain "facts" while others don't. All is ok. If you have something of value to contribute to this discussion [[or any discussion), I, as a fan of all things Motown, want to hear it. I may not agree with you at all times, but I do respect your right to express yourself.

[midnight johnny]

All one needs to do is compare the songs done by Tammi on her anthology versus those duet songs in question and it's almost shockingly obvious that Tammi is not singing those songs. It's like night and day- One singer is Tammi Terrell and the other one is a singer trying to sound like Tammi Terrell.

Ross...I'm confused by your statement. None of the Tammi solos were redone by Valerie.
Any of Tammi's solos that were engineered into duets with Marvin were in fact Tammi.
The only 2 tracks on "Easy" that are Tammi vocals are "I Can't believe You Love Me" and "More More More".

[midnightman]

All one needs to do is compare the songs done by Tammi on her anthology versus those duet songs in question and it's almost shockingly obvious that Tammi is not singing those songs. It's like night and day- One singer is Tammi Terrell and the other one is a singer trying to sound like Tammi Terrell.

I think you meant the "Easy" songs only, right? Because everything else was Tammi's.

[RossHolloway]

Ross...I'm confused by your statement. None of the Tammi solos were redone by Valerie.
Any of Tammi's solos that were engineered into duets with Marvin were in fact Tammi.
The only 2 tracks on "Easy" that are Tammi vocals are "I Can't believe You Love Me" and "More More More".

I'm not saying that Valerie ever personally re-recorded any of Tammi's solo songs. I'm saying listen to the tracks on Tammi's anthology Come On And See Me- The Complete Solo Collection and get a true sense of Tammi's singing style, diction, and phrasing AND THEN listen to the song off the Easy album [[I Can't believe You Love Me and More More More are in fact Tammi) the other songs are NOT Tammi, but instead Valerie Simpson singing as Tammi. I also think that Valerie is also on some songs on the You're All I Need to Get By album. I haven't listened to the album in a while, but if you know what to listen for, Valerie's voice jumps out on that album as well.

[midnightman]

^ Interesting. I may have to listen to that album and see if I hear any Valerie-esque vocals going on.

[kenneth]

There was also some basic documentary evidence that one astute observer pointed out from the annotations on the Complete Singles sets. All of the "Easy" singles session notes credited Marvin Gaye solo recording dates, but never Tammi. Instead, it would say "Additional Lead Vocal" or something like that. I forget the exact wording, but if you check the later box sets [[I think the "Easy" singles would have been '69 or '70), you'll see what I mean.

I'm not sure, but I think "Good Lovin' Ain't Easy to Come By" and "The Onion Song" were the only singles off the LP.

[BayouMotownMan]

Good Lovin' was the first single, What You Gave Me the second. Onion Song/California Soul was issued posthumously as the third single

[carole cucumber]

Kenneth, thanks for pointing that out.
For 'The Onion Song' Marvin records his lead vocal on March 15, but 1 day later for 'What You Gave Me', 'How You Gonna Keep It [[After You Get It)' and 'California Soul'. Whether the term 'demo lead vocal recorded' or 'vocal added' or' vocal added at GW' follows Marvin's information in reference to the female voice, the log shows the exact same date of March 17, 1969 [[Happy St. Patrick's Day!) for all four songs.
Good Lovin' Ain't Easy To Come By' annotation ends with Marvin Gaye lead vocal recorded in New York, November 21, 1968; 'Satified Feelin' shows Marvin's lead vocal date as May 23, 1968 followed by demo and background vocals added November 7, 1968.
While this proves nothing, it is interesting to ponder.

[RossHolloway]

Kenneth, thanks for pointing that out.
For 'The Onion Song' Marvin records his lead vocal on March 15, but 1 day later for 'What You Gave Me', 'How You Gonna Keep It [[After You Get It)' and 'California Soul'. Whether the term 'demo lead vocal recorded' or 'vocal added' or' vocal added at GW' follows Marvin's information in reference to the female voice, the log shows the exact same date of March 17, 1969 [[Happy St. Patrick's Day!) for all four songs.
Good Lovin' Ain't Easy To Come By' annotation ends with Marvin Gaye lead vocal recorded in New York, November 21, 1968; 'Satified Feelin' shows Marvin's lead vocal date as May 23, 1968 followed by demo and background vocals added November 7, 1968.
While this proves nothing, it is interesting to ponder.

So between those recording dates and the November 1969 interview that Tammi gave to Ebony magazine where she stated that she had not recorded in a year and a half...something doesn't quite add up. Where's Harry, Andy and George S. when we need them?

[midnightman]

"Ain't Nothing Like the Real Thing" was recorded in 1967 [[prior to her collapse, or to her buckling downwards, according to an audience member that night). "You're All I Need to Get By", if you believe Unsung's account, was recorded six weeks after the collapse [[the collapse was in October, so she probably recorded later that November or December of 1967). Somebody's lying. If Tammi herself said she hadn't recorded for a year and a half [[which in her timeline is between possibly December of 1967 and November of 1969), then Valerie Simpson and Ludie Montgomery are not being truthful about the details.

[carole cucumber]

According to session info available in the Complete Motown Singles Collection Vol 8: 1968
the track for 'You're All I Need To Get By' was recorded April 15, 1968; horns and strings recorded April 27; demo lead vocals recorded May 21; lead vocals -May 22; Marvin re-cut May 23; background vocals May 27; Tammi re-cut May 28; lead & backgrounds re-recorded May 29.
Tammi's collapse occurred on Sat. Oct 14, 1967.
In the first full paragraph of page 102 of the Ebony article, Tammi relates about going back to performing after her first operation against the advice of her doctor. Her unmentioned brief visit to Hitsville in the spring of '68 could have taken place around that same time.
Obviously no-one [[even Tammi herself) gave any indication to Art Peters that Tammi[[she) had made a brave visit to the studio in 1968.

[midnightman]

According to session info available in the Complete Motown Singles Collection Vol 8: 1968
the track for 'You're All I Need To Get By' was recorded April 15, 1968; horns and strings recorded April 27; demo lead vocals recorded May 21; lead vocals -May 22; Marvin re-cut May 23; background vocals May 27; Tammi re-cut May 28; lead & backgrounds re-recorded May 29.
Tammi's collapse occurred on Sat. Oct 14, 1967.
In the first full paragraph of page 102 of the Ebony article, Tammi relates about going back to performing after her first operation against the advice of her doctor. Her unmentioned brief visit to Hitsville in the spring of '68 could have taken place around that same time.
Obviously no-one [[even Tammi herself) gave any indication to Art Peters that Tammi[[she) had made a brave visit to the studio in 1968.

That's usually the danger with stories like these. I do believe Tammi did make that visit to Hitsville after the first surgery. Doggone, I didn't know they waited until April-May to do "You're All I Need"...

[midnight johnny]

So between those recording dates and the November 1969 interview that Tammi gave to Ebony magazine where she stated that she had not recorded in a year and a half...something doesn't quite add up. Where's Harry, Andy and George S. when we need them?

ANd the truth was staring us in the face all the time......

[midnightman]

And Marvin was the first one to pull the wool over everyone's eyes.

[jboy88]

I'll try one more time to give my take. Yes, I believe that Valerie is on "Easy", that's no big secret. I'm just not on board with those who say it's all Val and No Tammi! And the ebony article, dftmc, the TCMS, Unsung, and my own audio research have all been factors to my reasoning. The common story is that the pairing of Marvin with Val as Tammi was done to help with the medical bills, which in reality, was already being taken care of by Berry. I also believe Val's voice was too raw and powerful. Plus, given all the stories we've heard about Tammi's endurance, I don't think she would of responded well to being replaced. Hell, she could only watch Marvin sing her songs with Carla Thomas for so long before she caught Marvin's attention and stole the show[[ this was after "Easy" had been recorded). If that had happened in the studio, I think "Good Lovin' Ain't Easy" would of been a one-off single . Again, just my two cents.

[mysterysinger]

"Inspired" by some of the posts above, I just had a listen to the "United", "You're All I Need" and "Easy" albums. "United" is all Marvin and Tammi, and I would suggest that the "YAIN" album is also all Marvin and Tammi with the exception of the title song [[and it pains me to say it) since the female vocal on "You're All I Need To Get By" and "Good Lovin Ain't Easy To Come By" sound very much the same to me then it's Valerie Simpson. It sounds to me like Valerie on all the harmony parts with Marvin, and if Tammi is on it at all I would suggest just the verses OR verse and harmonies with help from Valerie. As regard "Easy", I would agree that aside from the 2 obvious Tammi songs, the rest are Marvin and Valerie. Just an opinion, of course!

[daddyacey]

The 2009 thread on this issue. It's a long read.

Start here...................http://faac.us/adf/messages/131452/202342.html?1256821878

and here's the rest ...http://faac.us/adf/messages/131452/202104.html?1258518846

[midnightman]

God I remember that. I posted on it! Ha.

[midnightman]

From Jobeterob's posts, it seems like all the parties that were alive at the time admitted only that Tammi was "there" and she tried her best but they stopped short of admitting that Valerie was singing with Tammi on the records. I'm gonna conclude that both Tammi and Valerie are on it in various degrees.

[mysterysinger]

This is definately Valerie Simpson singin "You're All I Need To Get By" plus there's "Stand By Me". Both songs have an association with Tammi I believe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ76RZbc9_U

[captainjames]

Well, at least we know Ain't No Mountain High enough was them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmUFDVv4sZQ

[BayouMotownMan]

What could have been the case is that when Gordy ordered the release of this lp, which Gaye was against doing, he left Valerie's vocal on those tracks likely without Valerie know it. More likely is that Valerie is championing Tammi and helping give her memory a more lasting impression. In either case, it's an outstanding album. To me the best of the three.

[mysterysinger]

In the November 1969 interview, Tammi said that she hadn't recorded for a year and a half which would make her final recording around May 1968. That puts it firmly at the session for "You're All I Need To Get By" where TCMS states that Tammi's vocal was re-cut on 28th May 1968. Some re-recording took place the day after [[which I believe would be Valerie singing the final pieces). I have read that a recording session with Tammi was very difficult because she was so ill and there had to be frequent breaks. I suggest that it describes this session on 28th May. I've also read that Valerie has described recordings being a "rich tapestry" of hers and Tammi's vocals, and again, I suggest that this refers to YAINTGB. Finally, most of the published versions of the song YAINTGB have Marvin saying "Tammi listen" between the first and second verses. However, the single just has the word "listen" and this is the track that is on TCMS. None of the recording sessions for singles following YANTGB have Tammi listed, but they do Marvin [[check out TCMS).

[BayouMotownMan]

To my ears Tammi is on the first verse of YAINTGB. Valerie is on the second [[Darling in you I found...). I say this because the nasal intonations are different, also because suddenly "Tammi" is singing in a high register on the second verse than on the first.

[jboy88]

Given some thing i've read about David Ritz in a different forum, it's possible, I repeat possible, that Marvin's may have actually given a statement similar to Valerie's. Since Marvin had passed before the book was released, Ritz might of twisted the story to make it juicer. If you've read over the passage about "Easy" the whole thing made Tammi out to be a complete invalid and a charity case far removed from what's depicted in the article.

Martha Reeves also stated in her book that Valerie in on "Easy" but she states that it was only on a few songs and done to help downplay the effects of Tammi's illness on her voice. Which to me seems to me the most logical scenario. I also believe it's all Tammi on You're All I Need to Get By, and I think I may heard Marvin sing Tammi's name towards the fade on Good Lovin' Ain't Easy to Come By.

[mysterysinger]

I don't think you can ignore the Ebony article in which Tammi herself saud she hadn't recorded for a year and a half. Given what we know, it is my belief that the recording session for "You're All I Need To Get By" was her last and that even then she was very poorly - some of the vocals are clearly Valerie's on that track. I think I agree too with BayouMotownMan as to the make up of the vocals on it. That has nothing to do with David Ritz. Tammi is not on "Good Loving Ain't Easy To Come By" and is not listed as being at any recording session for it, or any after YAINTGB unless anyone knows different for a fact?

[jboy88]

I don't think you can ignore the Ebony article in which Tammi herself saud she hadn't recorded for a year and a half. Given what we know, it is my belief that the recording session for "You're All I Need To Get By" was her last and that even then she was very poorly - some of the vocals are clearly Valerie's on that track. I think I agree too with BayouMotownMan as to the make up of the vocals on it. That has nothing to do with David Ritz. Tammi is not on "Good Loving Ain't Easy To Come By" and is not listed as being at any recording session for it, or any after YAINTGB unless anyone knows different for a fact?

The article stated at the beginning that Tammi was enroute to her first session after having six operations, her first in nearly two years [[ which was likely a typo). That would imply that she was going to do the sessions for Easy. This was backed up in TCMS 1969. 8 of the ten track were finished by March 17th, three days before she gave a brief performance in New Jersey.

[mysterysinger]

Always an interesting topic this, but we've perhaps nailed it here. The Ebony mag was published in November 1969. I'm not sure when the incident with Tammi on the plane is meant to have happened [[I've probably missed it), but if it was not much earlier than November, then Tammi couldn't have been going to a recording session for Easy because all the tracks were complete by 18th March 1969 and the album issued in September 69. In fact the single of "Good Lovin Ain't Easy To Come By" was released earlier on 14/1/69. So I think that answers it. She couldn't have been on Easy [[aside from the 2 tracks recorded previously).

[midnightman]

^ According to the Soulful Detroit archives, the plane incident was in early 1968, probably right after the first surgery.

[jboy88]

Always an interesting topic this, but we've perhaps nailed it here. The Ebony mag was published in November 1969. I'm not sure when the incident with Tammi on the plane is meant to have happened [[I've probably missed it), but if it was not much earlier than November, then Tammi couldn't have been going to a recording session for Easy because all the tracks were complete by 18th March 1969 and the album issued in September 69. In fact the single of "Good Lovin Ain't Easy To Come By" was released earlier on 14/1/69. So I think that answers it. She couldn't have been on Easy [[aside from the 2 tracks recorded previously).

I'm not sure we read the same article! Because it said she was giong to record after 6 operations. She only had 1 before YAINTGB! If anything the article proves Tammi IS on "Easy". It also said she'd had 6 operations within 18 month, no reference was made to recordings.

[mysterysinger]

The article clearly says that Tammi was on her way to her first recording session in nearly 2 years [[which feels a bit too long). However, on a re-read it appears that the plane incident took place in Spring 1969. On that basis, she could have been going to the final sessions for "Easy" because the tracks were all completed by 28th March 1969 [[and indeed this could have been the catalyst for their completion). But if Tammi did make the sessions, why would she not be shown as such in TCMS for the relevant singles tracks? Moreover, the recording sessions for "Good Lovin' Ain't Easy" took place between 27/9/68 and 21/11/68 and it had been released on 14/1/69 - it's very hard to believe that Tammi had any involvement with that.

Since the recording dates for "Satisfied Feelin" are very similar to YAINTGB, is is entirely feasible that Tammi could have recorded some of that, but she was already poorly and the dentist incident and first operation had taken place.

The final vocal session for "The Onion Song" and "California Soul" is shown as on 17th March 1969 in TCMS and although it doesn't credit Tammi, could this have been the Spring session she was travelling to? The TCMS write up says that these were recorded at Tammi's "last recording session" but also that she "adamantly attended recording sessions to the end" which could, of course, have been simply a reference to the final session.

Time for another listen to "Easy". May be someone can point out where they can definately hear Tammi [[but not on the 2 obvious ones!).

[thisoldheart]

well, despite all of the different scenarios, we seem to have made quite a bit of progress since the last visit to this subject. almost everyone agrees that tammi terrell is either only mixed "in a rich tapestry" [[valerie simpson's covert way of getting out of answering the question), or not on the "easy" album.

i still maintain that this remains the most underhanded act that berry gordy performed at motown. i don't for one second believe he did this to help terrell. he was already paying her doctor's bills, but instead he wanted more hit singles, fame, and glory. what an egotistical man.

the fact remain that motown lied to its fans. i do feel hurt that i, as a teenager, was duped by his actions. i wised up in my twenties, when my ear was sharper! the sad fact remains that had the singles from "easy" been correctly labeled, we the fans would have been more than sympathetic. it isn't as if we didn't knew that terrell had been a fabulously sexy and very talented singer, who if she had been well could have tossed off these songs with the ease and flair she recorded all of her music.

motown did not hire singers who couldn't sing, writers who couldn't write, or producers who couldn't produce. why lie to us, berry? money, that's what he wants!

[Kamasu_Jr]

Gosh, it is Valerie Simpson on You're All I Need...as well.

[mysterysinger]

How about a reminder?
6323

[thomas96]

Wow, great thread. After listening to You're all I Need I think it definitely is Valerie throughout the whole song. Very disappointing. As much as I respect Berry Gordy, and am thankful for him starting the company, etc, it's things like this that make me skeptical.

[zebop]

Gosh, it is Valerie Simpson on You're All I Need...as well.

I've been listening for clues of Valerie's work on these songs--and it's right there on one of their biggest hits. I didn't really expect that...

[jboy88]

http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?4223-Valerie-on-the-Tammi-vocals-question-At-last!!!!!!! Ross, Dave and Nixon dug deep!

[mysterysinger]

The words of Johnny Bristol are interesting, as are the others quoted, and it is clear just how much folks are/were wanting to ensure Tammi's legacy and body of work would endure, and why not? I for one can't get enough of Tammi Terrell's songs. I don't share the view that Berry Gordy's motive's were simply to raise more money - it seems like everyone just pulled together to do their best for her. What is apparent is that there was a long gap in recording sessions for Tammi and piecing together the info from the Ebony article and others [[and as jboy88 has insisted all along) she was there for the final sessions on Easy but they just used the best vocals for the final tracks whether it was Val or Tammi or a mixture -and that would have been normal for Motown I think). The clue, from Johnny Bristol, is that he says he can tell where Tammi is singing - which means there are times when she isn't.

But none of this is meant to take anything away from Tammi Terrell, or anyone else. Quite the opposite, in fact, they should be [[and are) admired for what they achieved - and it had me fooled for a long long time as I never suspected anything all those years ago. Moreso because it is apparent that Tammi had some difficulty on all of her recordings after her collapse. This included much help from Val on "You're All I Need To Get By" [[but I'm sure I can hear more of Tammi in the verse parts of that record). However, "Satisfied Feelin" has a very similar chronology to YAINTGB in terms of recording sessions and that seems to me to be mostly Valerie, as do all the tracks thereafter. BUT all of the info suggests to me that Tammi could not have been on "Good Lovin Ain't Easy To Come By" at all. Please persuade me otherwise.

So now I've ordered Ludie's book - I wonder if my mind will be changed once again when I've read it [[always from cover to cover with any book about Motown lol).

[thisoldheart]

...I don't share the view that Berry Gordy's motive's were simply to raise more money - it seems like everyone just pulled together to do their best for her ...
i don't understand why gordy is given so much slack. his motive was fame and money ... i am not sure which was more important to him ... it was probably a tie! simpson was a driven "a" type personality, and marvin & tammi were her biggest creation at this point in her career. ashford was a mellow guy and steered clear of questioning the autocratic simpson. marvin went along with the deal knowing in his soul it was a pact with the devil. he suffered long and hard over his part in this scam!

i don't like the way people treat this as "business as usual" at motown. at this time in the recording studio using seasoned professionals to play background instruments and vocals was the norm. it was never acceptable to purposefully mislable a record "marvin gaye & tammi terrell" when terrell was not the co-lead singer. shame on motown! all of these records should be correctly attributed, and we, the purchasers of the mislabeled records should be offered the chance to here the tapes of tammi and valerie for history's sake. i think tammi was one of motown's most delightful singers. simpson has a fine gospel voice. let us hear whatever recordings are "in the vault"!

i don't suppose this part of history will make it into "motown: the musical"! just seeing "gordy" sing "you're all i need to get by" [[or is it "ain't no mountain high enough"?) to "ross" is enough to keep me away from broadway until the dang play closes!

bless you tammi terrell ... you are an angel in my book!

[RossHolloway]

I stand by what I wrote in this thread and the previous thread on this topic.

[Methuselah2]

This has been a very interesting thread. Unfortunately, the issues and concerns at the center of it may never get answered with any final or official response unless, perhaps, the producers of the recordings in question come forward with the actual production specifics. I would like to think that the discussions that come up about this are a means of leading to the information that many, including myself, would like to know. It could happen but, for now, it seems highly unlikely. As The Marvelettes once sang, THE TRUTH'S OUTSIDE MY DOOR. If only it were.

What's so unsettling is that one's admiration towards certain recordings and very specific artists is now re-mixed with doubt. The movie business has always used stand-ins, stunt doubles, body doubles, special effects, editing, you-name-it--all to produce a desired effect. It's distressing to realize that--in some cases--the record business could proceed along the same lines. And any such decisions to do so may have been made directly for the sake of expediency rather than any pointed attempt at misleading. But in the end, something may have been advertised and promoted as one thing when, in fact, it wasn't quite that. And there's the rub that's troublesome. And baby, I can't scratch it.

[thisoldheart]

I stand by what I wrote in this thread and the previous thread on this topic.
you are a voice of reasoned sanity!

[jboy88]

you are a voice of reasoned sanity!

That did it! I'm done for real now! It's obvious that I've just been wasting my time here.

[RossHolloway]

That did it! I'm done for real now! It's obvious that I've just been wasting my time here.

No! Please wait! Don't go! Stop.... Oh, well, I tried.

[RossHolloway]

you are a voice of reasoned sanity!

I can't tell if you're being serious or just poking fun.

[midnightman]

i don't understand why gordy is given so much slack. his motive was fame and money ... i am not sure which was more important to him ... it was probably a tie! simpson was a driven "a" type personality, and marvin & tammi were her biggest creation at this point in her career. ashford was a mellow guy and steered clear of questioning the autocratic simpson. marvin went along with the deal knowing in his soul it was a pact with the devil. he suffered long and hard over his part in this scam!

i don't like the way people treat this as "business as usual" at motown. at this time in the recording studio using seasoned professionals to play background instruments and vocals was the norm. it was never acceptable to purposefully mislable a record "marvin gaye & tammi terrell" when terrell was not the co-lead singer. shame on motown! all of these records should be correctly attributed, and we, the purchasers of the mislabeled records should be offered the chance to here the tapes of tammi and valerie for history's sake. i think tammi was one of motown's most delightful singers. simpson has a fine gospel voice. let us hear whatever recordings are "in the vault"!

i don't suppose this part of history will make it into "motown: the musical"! just seeing "gordy" sing "you're all i need to get by" [[or is it "ain't no mountain high enough"?) to "ross" is enough to keep me away from broadway until the dang play closes!

bless you tammi terrell ... you are an angel in my book!

I agree. Marvin was tired of the recording business afterwards. I remember after Tammi's death he told David Ritz he wanted to actually quit the business and go into another field [[this was around the time he tried to have a tryout with the Detroit Lions and we know how that went). Marvin didn't like being "phony". I think the situation with Tammi forced him to look into himself but he seemed to have a hard time coping with it. The thing with Marvin was he didn't lie about Gordy in this particular incident. "It was all a part of BG's moneymaking scheme..." I think there's truth to that.

[rovereab]

With respect to YAINTGB, you can clearly hear Marvin say "Tammi listen" in the background which easier to hear on the stereo mix. On the basis that he never "spoke or sung" to Tammi, using her name, on any of the Easy recordings I think that it is Tammi on YAINTGB.

[skooldem1]

With respect to YAINTGB, you can clearly hear Marvin say "Tammi listen" in the background which easier to hear on the stereo mix. On the basis that he never "spoke or sung" to Tammi, using her name, on any of the Easy recordings I think that it is Tammi on YAINTGB.

No offense, but that is not proof of anything. That could have been put in there to throw the public off.

[RossHolloway]

With respect to YAINTGB, you can clearly hear Marvin say "Tammi listen" in the background which easier to hear on the stereo mix. On the basis that he never "spoke or sung" to Tammi, using her name, on any of the Easy recordings I think that it is Tammi on YAINTGB.

It's not really proof of anything. I think that most people were really surprised to learn [[years, if not decades later) that Marvin and Tammi were not in the studio singing Ain't No Mountain High Enough together, much less that it started off as a solo recording done months before Marvin added his vocals.

[Methuselah2]

Has anyone offerred actual proof here so far?
Although it's been interesting, here's what I've read to this point:

-- Opinion
-- Conjecture
-- Speculation
-- Guesses

As SDF members, what you have to say has my attention.
As potential members of a jury, I'm already planning my escape.

[mysterysinger]

If the recording of "Good Lovin Ain't Easy To Come By" took place from 27/9/68 to 7/11/68 and was released on 14/1/69 and
If the Ebony article is correct that at the time of travelling to Motown in Spring 1969 Tammi had not recorded for up to 2 years
Then how could Tammi have been on "Good Lovin Ain't Easy To Come By"?

[thisoldheart]

I can't tell if you're being serious or just poking fun.
we agree, so of course i am serious!

[TammiTerrellFan]

One heartbreaking revelation in the article was that Tammi & David announced their engagement publicly onstage when they were both appearing at the same theater. She only found out after the fact that that he was already married!
One heartwarming revelation is Tammi's acknowledgement of Berry Gordy's great generosity in taking care of her medical expenses.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZFDqAUi7h-QC&pg=PA94&lr=&rview=1&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false

Tried to read article but couldn't get it to enlarge on phone! I have no access to a computer because of covid. Anyway the photos were sad to see, especially the one where Tam mi is walking with the man, seems like her whole right side is affected

[SatansBlues]

Tried to read article but couldn't get it to enlarge on phone! I have no access to a computer because of covid. Anyway the photos were sad to see, especially the one where Tam mi is walking with the man, seems like her whole right side is affected
So you're an obvious TT fan. What are your thoughts on the Easy album? What do you hear, Tammi or Valerie?