"Since I Lost My Baby"...

[GrtGzu]

Ok, I was just listening to this song off the radio...Funny when you have an earbud stuck in your ear, you can acutally HEAR other instruments...

Anyway, since I heard some "horns", and some "strings and things", and some other interesting "sound stylings", I just wondered how did they get a FULL ORCHESTRA in what seemed like a small recording room - I saw pics of the studio at Motown, and I keep thinking it must've been awful crowded to have singers and musicians in the room at the same time....And I also heard more voices singing than the Temps....I figure it must be those Andante girls [[?)...Wish I coulda been an "Andante girl"..

I might be old [[actually middle-aged), but I ain't dead yet and I can still hear reasonably well...Now I'd like to hear the same song with just the music....

I knew I shoulda stuck with the piano lessons instead of quitting at the 4th grade.....DRAT!!

[carole cucumber]

The track was recorded on May 5, 1965 WITH ADDITIONAL recording taking place on May 10 & May 12. All those musicians weren't likely in that small recording room at the same time
Sorry, but I don't hear any females. In fact I don't hear anyone other than Temps in the background.

[nabob]

Ralph can give you the right answer. If I remember correctly, the Detroit Symphony Orchestra would provide sweetening at the Graystone Ballroom studio. That's not the gospel truth unless someone knowledgeable confirms.

BTW, I'm a fan of stereo recordings, but the mono mix we've been listening to since the Temptin' Temptations album debut is tops in my book. The alternate vocal on the stereo mix sounds like a warm up demo. The stereo mix didn't quite catch the magic of the arrangement.

[soulster]

The symphonic overdubs were done in another studio after the basic tracks were recorded.

There may be a latter-day stereo mix out there now, but until recently, all there had ever been was a mono mix. If there was anything before recently that was once designated as a stereo mix it was actually rechannelled mono.

[nabob]

There may be a latter-day stereo mix out there now, but until recently, all there had ever been was a mono mix. If there was anything before recently that was once designated as a stereo mix it was actually rechannelled mono.The stereo mix with the alternate vocal found on TJ Lubinsky's Motown Box from several years ago was a surprise find while combing through the vaults.

[bradburger]

The stereo mix with the alternate vocal found on TJ Lubinsky's Motown Box from several years ago was a surprise find while combing through the vaults.

The first time stereo mix with alternate vocal was originally issued on the Temptations 'Love Songs' CD. The version on the Motown Box was a sync-up of the 45 mix with the multitrack so as to create a stereo mix with the 45 vocal.

Cheers

Paul

[soulster]

The stereo mix with the alternate vocal found on TJ Lubinsky's Motown Box from several years ago was a surprise find while combing through the vaults.
But, it had alternate vocals. Some of us want the hit vocals.

[marv2]

The track was recorded on May 5, 1965 WITH ADDITIONAL recording taking place on May 10 & May 12. All those musicians weren't likely in that small recording room at the same time
Sorry, but I don't hear any females. In fact I don't hear anyone other than Temps in the background.

How do you know all those musicians were not in that small recording room? I've been in there and it could have been possible. Better to ask Ralph or someone who was in Detroit and involved during that time.

[marv2]

Here is the studio in question. It looks like they were able to get a whole lot of musicians in there :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQyiytA0Fjo

[bradburger]

But, it had alternate vocals. Some of us want the hit vocals.

See Post #6! :confused:


How do you know all those musicians were not in that small recording room? I've been in there and it could have been possible. Better to ask Ralph or someone who was in Detroit and involved during that time.

I'm sure they could have fitted a lot of people in Studio A if need be, but by the time SILMB was cut with 8 track recording coming into full swing, the rhythm tracks were always cut first, followed by the various overdubs as required. [[The video of MWIEWY is clearly a staged session).

I must admit, I've never heard of the Graystone Ballroom being used for overdub recording sessions. My understanding has always been that studio A would have been used for overdubs unitil Golden World [[Motown Studio B) was acquired in mid to late 66.

Cheers

Paul

[marv2]

See Post #6! :confused:



I'm sure they could have fitted a lot of people in Studio A if need be, but by the time SILMB was cut with 8 track recording coming into full swing, the rhythm tracks were always cut first, followed by the various overdubs as required. [[The video of MWIEWY is clearly a staged session).

I must admit, I've never heard of the Graystone Ballroom being used for overdub recording sessions. My understanding has always been that studio A would have been used for overdubs unitil Golden World [[Motown Studio B) was acquired in mid to late 66.

Cheers

Paul

Thank you Paul! I was going to suggest that they may have used Ford Auditorium, but the acoustics there were not known to be the best. Thanks for you response.

[soulster]

See Post #6! :confused:

Missed that!

[ralpht]

Believe it or not, it was possible to fill the studio with musicians. In later years, Motown would add dubbing rooms to Studio A with the intent of them being used for strings and such. They became, basically, store rooms to stash instruments that weren't being used. We even had the Hammond B-3 in one of the rooms , which I never liked. I would have to use it on an occasional over-dub and I would feel so isolated in the room.

Once Motown acquired Golden World, creating Studio B, string, and horn over-dubs, were much easier to deal with.

[marv2]

Believe it or not, it was possible to fill the studio with musicians. In later years, Motown would add dubbing rooms to Studio A with the intent of them being used for strings and such. They became, basically, store rooms to stash instruments that weren't being used. We even had the Hammond B-3 in one of the rooms , which I never liked. I would have to use it on an occasional over-dub and I would feel so isolated in the room.

Once Motown acquired Golden World, creating Studio B, string, and horn over-dubs, were much easier to deal with.

THANK YOU RALPH!

Well Carole, there you have it! From some one that was there! Always go with the real deal! LOL!

[midnightman]

I could imagine how hard it was to fit all that equipment in just one studio. On that, I tip my hat off to the people who worked at Motown to try to make it work...

[nabob]

The first time stereo mix with alternate vocal was originally issued on the Temptations 'Love Songs' CD. The version on the Motown Box was a sync-up of the 45 mix with the multitrack so as to create a stereo mix with the 45 vocal.

Cheers

PaulThanks for the correction Paul. Between memory fades with age and being too lazy to walk over to the library, bad information gets spread. I'll pull the two sources out and give a listen. Much appreciated!

[GrtGzu]

Well, I'm certainly glad I came to the right place to get the right answers...

Man, you guys are good!!

Btw, I forgot to tell you that the [[Dennis Edwards') Temptation Revue is coming to Cleveland this month for the MoonDog Coronation Ball....

[soulster]

The first time stereo mix with alternate vocal was originally issued on the Temptations 'Love Songs' CD. The version on the Motown Box was a sync-up of the 45 mix with the multitrack so as to create a stereo mix with the 45 vocal.

Cheers

Paul
But, if it doesn't sound just like the hit single mix, i'm not interested. I'm just not into hearing alternate mixes.

[bradburger]

But, if it doesn't sound just like the hit single mix, i'm not interested. I'm just not into hearing alternate mixes.

I don't have the 'Motown Box' [[http://www.allmusic.com/album/the-motown-box-mw0000312240)but seem to recall hearing samples of the new mixes from it when it came out.

It would seem that some were critical of these new mixes, as many felt that they sounded over processed and were not any better than the orignal Motown stereo mixes, although the extended endings were popular.

SILMB sounded ok from the sample I heard, [[you can hear a sample for yourself in the link for the box I posted above) but it did seem to have probems associated with a sync-up [[as did the other songs that were sync-ups), and people picked up on this too.

As it stands, I'm happy to have the stereo mix from the 'Love Songs' CD, even though it has a 'rougher', less polished, but more soulful lead vocal than the 45.

But it's a real pity that the final lead take no longer exists.

Cheers

Paul

[carole cucumber]

THANK YOU RALPH!

Well Carole, there you have it! From some one that was there! Always go with the real deal! LOL!

Thank you, Ralph, for saying it was possible. But, you don't say it was specifically that way for the sessions for this recording as Marv is trying to indicate. And as Ralph has verified on another thread, the session logs and tape library cards are the real deal that I've been going on. LOL!

[marv2]

Thank you, Ralph, for saying it was possible. But, you don't say it was specifically that way for the sessions for this recording as Marv is trying to indicate. And as Ralph has verified on another thread, the session logs and tape library cards are the real deal that I've been going on. LOL!

Carole go back to post #8 and read it again S-L-O-W-L-Y......

come on, I know you can do it......

This is what I said

"I've been in there and it could have been possible."

The keywords are "could", "have" and "been". Put them together, say them out loud to yourself and maybe, just maybe you will understand that what I said does not equate to "it was specifically that way for the sessions....."


LOL!!!!

[marv2]

Thank you, Ralph, for saying it was possible. But, you don't say it was specifically that way for the sessions for this recording as Marv is trying to indicate. And as Ralph has verified on another thread, the session logs and tape library cards are the real deal that I've been going on. LOL!

Ralph never said that Fran Heard was at those Johnny Bristol/Supremes sessions in LA in 1969! Try not to stretch things in order to try to look like you're right.

[carole cucumber]

Carole go back to post #8 and read it again S-L-O-W-L-Y......

come on, I know you can do it......

This is what I said

"I've been in there and it could have been possible."

The keywords are "could", "have" and "been". Put them together, say them out loud to yourself and maybe, just maybe you will understand that what I said does not equate to "it was specifically that way for the sessions....."


LOL!!!!

I won't belittle you as you attempt to do here to me .
But if you go back and read post #2 , you will note that I said that as the session logs indicate 3 recording dates it was not LIKELY that all the musicians were present in the studio on that first date. I didn't say it wasn't possible, not that it couldn't have happened with all the musicians jammed into that limited space.
In post 8 , you say that I said that all those musicians were not in the same room - which is a complete distortion of what I said, which I chose in kindness to ignore.... but since you now choose to bring it up prompts this post.

[marv2]

I won't belittle you as you attempt to do here to me .
But if you go back and read post #2 , you will note that I said that as the session logs indicate 3 recording dates it was not LIKELY that all the musicians were present in the studio on that first date. I didn't say it wasn't possible, not that it couldn't have happened with all the musicians jammed into that limited space.
In post 8 , you say that I said that all those musicians were not in the same room - which is a complete distortion of what I said, which I chose in kindness to ignore.... but since you now choose to bring it up prompts this post.

That is not what you said. This is what you said verbatim:

" All those musicians weren't likely in that small recording room at the same time
"

[carole cucumber]

Ralph never said that Fran Heard was at those Johnny Bristol/Supremes sessions in LA in 1969! Try not to stretch things in order to try to look like you're right.

Again, I invite you to go back and re-read and follow the progression of the thread:

http://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?8166-Someday-We-ll-Be-Together-question

Discussion shifted quickly between "Someday We'll Be Together" and "These Things Will Keep Me Loving You".[[#27-29). Although Marv says Johnny Bristol told him he wanted to use Mary & Cindy, here's what he revealed in the Supremes' box set "I had re-recorded the song in 1969, to give to Jr. Walker. He and I had some success with that kind of feel. But with Junior, the conversation didn't last too long. Then I had the intention of singing it myself.
When Mr. Gordy heard the track, he said 'How'd you like to do this on Diana Ross & the Supremes?' There was no contest. The track was complete when Mr. Gordy heard it; it was totally loaded with what you hear now, including the backup vocals and strings, except for the lead vocal. Since I didn't cut it with the Supremes in mind, you'll notice it has a little more R&B flavor in it than most of the Supremes' material. the timing was perfect because Diana Ross was just going off on her own. it started her career, in a way, as a solo artist."
Talk shifted to the possibility that Mary & Cindy might be the back-up on Diana's early solo singles. In post #35 Franjoy refers to an entry in Mary's book as proof.
Post #43 logbooks & session tapes show another possibility.
Post #44, Fran agrees that Mary's book is not infallible.
Post #45 , Marv post his view on conversation between Fran & Carole.
Post #50, Carole addresses value of Fran Heards work with logs & library cards.
Post #52 Franjoy asks if Fran Heard was there when that song was recorded .
Post #54 Marv answers Franjoy's question, Fran Heard in Detroit at time
Post #62 Marv INACCURATELY AND ABSURDLY tries to claim that Carole SAID that Fran Heard was present or directly involved in the recordings.

How Marv arrives at the statement that I, Carole, said that Ralph said that Fran Heard was at the session is again utterly ridiculous. It seems to be based on improper reading, purposeful distortion, or emotions run wild or some combination of the above.

[hwume]

Back to "Since I Lost My Baby."

As the person who wasn't there in 1965 for the original recording but is the one who found the multi-track tape with the alternate lead vocal, and studied the sessions and the recording dates on the title cards and session log book - with help from colleague Keith Hughes - as well as the physical tape, I can confirm that the backing track was cut in Hitsville onto 1-inch eight-track recording tape on May 5, then the strings and lead vocal were overdubbed to that reel on two later dates, May 10 and 12, respectively, in the same studio.

[soulster]

Back to "Since I Lost My Baby."

As the person who wasn't there in 1965 for the original recording but is the one who found the multi-track tape with the alternate lead vocal, and studied the sessions and the recording dates on the title cards and session log book - with help from colleague Keith Hughes - as well as the physical tape, I can confirm that the backing track was cut in Hitsville onto 1-inch eight-track recording tape on May 5, then the strings and lead vocal were overdubbed to that reel on two later dates, May 10 and 12, respectively, in the same studio.
Thank you, Harry! So, my question is, was the vocal used on the hit version on that 8-track, or just the alternate vocal?

[hwume]

I found that tape while searching for an opportunity to create a "true stereo" master, and found out why the song has never been in stereo: the multi-track master Motown saved on the reel has the alternate vocal, not the vocal used for the original release.

[carole cucumber]

Thank you, Harry, for your clarification.
Hoping to hear more from you soon regarding the upcoming 5oth Anniversary sets in the respective thread[[s).

[marv2]

Back to "Since I Lost My Baby."

As the person who wasn't there in 1965 for the original recording but is the one who found the multi-track tape with the alternate lead vocal, and studied the sessions and the recording dates on the title cards and session log book - with help from colleague Keith Hughes - as well as the physical tape, I can confirm that the backing track was cut in Hitsville onto 1-inch eight-track recording tape on May 5, then the strings and lead vocal were overdubbed to that reel on two later dates, May 10 and 12, respectively, in the same studio.

Harry thanks. Could you check your private messages for me? Marv

[soulster]

I found that tape while searching for an opportunity to create a "true stereo" master, and found out why the song has never been in stereo: the multi-track master Motown saved on the reel has the alternate vocal, not the vocal used for the original release.
This explains it all. Thanks!

[marv2]

The Temptations & Sam Remo Golden Strings recording in Motown's Studio A

[GrtGzu]

The Temptations & Sam Remo Golden Strings recording in Motown's Studio A

WOW!!! Fascinating!!!!! Got any more pics? This is sooooo interesting......Me and Mr.GrtGzu might be planning a trip to Hitsville this summer......