Unsung 2 hour special on disco music full episode

[glencro]

Here it is :
http://tvone.tv/shows/unsung/video/full-episode--disco.html

[soulster]

Aw man! Thank you for that! Finally, a balanced disco doc that tells it like it is from the U.S. point of view, and focuses on the music, with commentary from the artists, producers, and DJs that lived it.

[Ngroove]

After watching it, as I am a Christian who believes in abstinence [[besides "disco sex" it looks pretty cheap, and possibly even AIDS spreading anyways), and in partying IN CONTROL [[without mind-altering substances), kinda makes me glad I wasn't around in the initial disco age.

Laughed my butt off in learning much of disco, in a general mass pop culture sense, has burned down by white people [[well, that's the truth anyways, that case - even Nile Rogers called it!), and they ended it in 1979 - not even 1980 with Diana Ross' "Upside Down" / "I'm Coming Out", Weather Girls' "Its Raining Men", or the continued input of Prelude / Salsoul / SOLAR / West End, through the mid eighties, to even today, if you think about it, as long as there is "danceable" music, DISCO still survives! Isn't C+C Music Factory disco? SNAP!'s "The Power" disco? Haddaway's "What Is Love?" disco? Cece Peniston's "Finally" disco? Amber's "This Is Your Night" disco?

Of today, I'd say, the best disco tune of the last thirteen years, is Daft Punk's "One More Time".

[luke]

Yes it was a little bizarre saying disco ended in 1979. It peaked as do many forms of music. To say a bunch of white rockers in a stadium ended disco is a bit of an overstatement. Same as saying the British invasion eneded so many singers careers. There were tons of hit records by non British groups in the 60s.

[soulster]

After watching it, as I am a Christian who believes in abstinence [[besides "disco sex" it looks pretty cheap, and possibly even AIDS spreading anyways), and in partying IN CONTROL [[without mind-altering substances), kinda makes me glad I wasn't around in the initial disco age.

Well, you just opened the door. My two-cents is that i'm glad I don't adhere to strict christian principles, or take the bible as the absolute word of God. I used to, now I don't. A lot has led me to this point. Don't ask why, and don't prosletyze or preach. Thank you.

I believe that heavily controlling one's self promotes ignorance and stunts personal growth. I believe that not growing as a person, and ignorance, is not of God or his/her plan for us. But, i'll leave it there, as I don't really want to debate faith in this thread, and I know you don't either.


Laughed my butt off in learning much of disco, in a general mass pop culture sense...

Well, you had to have lived through the 70s to understand it. It wasn't like the whole world was suddenly plunged into this hedonistic drug and sex orgy. Not at all! It was just a type of dance music, and people liking to go to a club on the weekends just like today.

Black folk just went to the "club" like they have always done. The music played in "Black discos and "White discos were different, though. Black clubs played R&B and funk like Parliament and Rick James. Predominantly White discos leaned toward Village People and Donna Summer.

And, radio was playing disco records before most people knew the music had a name. When we played MFSB, Barry White, or Hues Corporation, many of us had no clue it was a new kind of music. To most of us, they were just soul records, and they were popular because the baby-boom generation was getting tired of message music and rock records. We had just gone though Watergate and the Viet Nam war ended. We were in a recession, had school bust strikes, oil embargos, double digit inflation, and America just wanted to escape and have fun.


...has burned down by white people [[well, that's the truth anyways, that case - even Nile Rogers called it!),

Someone could get called a racist by saying this, but it is largely true. Disco was hated by many for several reasons. One was that Blacks and Latinos were very prominent. Suddenly, women were out in front, and it all coincided with the women's lib movement. On top of that, the gay movement had bored it's way to the nation's conciseness That brought out the bigots, sexists, and racists, and religious types who felt their way of life and values were being destroyed by this invasion of those "other" people, much like the tea-partiers of today feel.


and they ended it in 1979 - not even 1980 with Diana Ross' "Upside Down" / "I'm Coming Out", Weather Girls' "Its Raining Men", or the continued input of Prelude / Salsoul / SOLAR / West End, through the mid eighties, to even today, if you think about it, as long as there is "danceable" music, DISCO still survives!

That is one area where the documentary is kind of wrong. While the disco backlash started in the spring of 1979, there were still major disco hits all the way up to mid-1980, and beyond. The music never died, it was just forced back underground for a while, only to come back in the 80s. Remember "Gloria" by Laura Branigain? It was a classic disco record in late 1982. If it had been recorded and released three years earlier, it still would have been a disco hit, and probably would have burned up Studio 54. And, Studio 54 was probably still in operation around that time. Shannon's "Let The Music Play", "Funky Sensation" by Gwen McRae, "Somebody Else's Guy" by Jocyln Brown, and "Ai No Corrida", written by Chaz Jankel and made famous by Quincy Jones, are all excellent examples of 80s disco, now called club music to further distance itself from that "d" word.


Isn't C+C Music Factory disco? SNAP!'s "The Power" disco?

I think those would have been called hip-hop, but, yes, it's basically the same thing.


Haddaway's "What Is Love?" disco? Cece Peniston's "Finally" disco? Amber's "This Is Your Night" disco?

Yup!

[jillfoster]

Soulster... many great points, and the truth be told... all those white male bigots at the record burning are today's Tea partiers.. I'd bet my knickers on it! And disco never died really... they just renamed it. "Let The Music Play" like you mentioned, and HELLO.. "Neutron Dance"!, and not to mention "You Spin Me Around". And think about how heavily disco influenced the entire Freestyle genre was... not to mention the techno/dance/house stuff that prevailed from 1987-92. Ain't nobody gonna tell me this ain't disco:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ8UEWVschY

[Ngroove]

Ohhhh, myself, for years, I've kind of thought, when hearing the phrase "Disco Sucks", I basically thought it was being said, because they, as perhaps rock listeners, or possibly even vocal-based rhythm & blues listeners, just thought it "sucked".

Myself, preferrer of eighties disco [[favorites include Sharon Redd's "Can You Handle It" / "Never Give You Up", Sybil Thomas' "Rescue Me", Alisha's "Baby Talk" / "All Night Passion", D-Train's "Keep On", Frankie Smith's "Double Dutch Bus", New Jersey Connection's "Love Don't Come Easy", Vicky D's "This Beat Is Mine", Skyy's " Call Me" / "Let's Celebrate" / "Show Me The Way", Raw Silk's "Do It To The Music" / "Just In Time", Taana Gardner's "Heartbeat", Peech Boys' "Don't Make Me Wait", Regina's "Baby Love", Aurra's "Are You Single" / " Checking You Out" / "Baby Love", Gwen Guthrie's "Should Have Been You", Surface's "Falling In Love" / "When Your Ex Wants You Back")....

The seventies, am only partial, to the more stylized, R&B based disco, from Donna Summer, Chic, and Vicki Sue Robinson, added with Sister Sledge, Sylvers, Linda Clifford, Carol Douglas, Carrie Lucas, and Donna McGhee. Sorry, but while I have heard "Kung Fu Fighting" KC & the Sunshine Band, McCoy's "The Hustle", added with Wild Cherry's "Play That Funky Music" , and dozens more "pop-radio friendly" disco hundreds of times, yeah, kinda gets under my skin, personally, with their formulaic-ness, don't get me started on the Bee Gees' voices after awhile either hahaha!

[jillfoster]

And disco in the strictest sense can still live in more modern times


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE4VlA_9OrI

[soulster]

I just laugh whenever these rockists heap praise on songs like "You Spin Me 'Round [[Like A Record)" by Dead or Alive, while bashing disco music. What do they think it is? They'll bash R&B music...and then confess their love for "Human" by The Human League. See where i'm going here?

[milven]

Soulster... many great points, and the truth be told... all those white male bigots at the record burning are today's Tea partiers.. I'd bet my knickers on it! And disco never died really... they just renamed it.

I never thought of that, but good point and probably true. I remember seeing those record burning idiots on TV and they so much remind me of the current Tea partiers. They probably are the same people. And disco did not die in 1979. But the name did. A disco magazine changed its name to Dance Music, the disco chart in Billboard was renamed and the clubs were now dance clubs. I loved the seventies music. We had disco [[dance) music, smooth soul music like Stylistics, Chi-lites, Blue Magic, and Motown was still going strong too.

I didn't see the Unsung episode, but it is on again today at 6 p.m. and I set my DVR to record it.

[soulster]

I never thought of that, but good point and probably true. I remember seeing those record burning idiots on TV and they so much remind me of the current Tea partiers. They probably are the same people. And disco did not die in 1979. But the name did. A disco magazine changed its name to Dance Music, the disco chart in Billboard was renamed and the clubs were now dance clubs. I loved the seventies music. We had disco [[dance) music, smooth soul music like Stylistics, Chi-lites, Blue Magic, and Motown was still going strong too.

I didn't see the Unsung episode, but it is on again today at 6 p.m. and I set my DVR to record it.
why not just watch it right here on the web via the link above?

[timmyfunk]

I never thought of that, but good point and probably true. I remember seeing those record burning idiots on TV and they so much remind me of the current Tea partiers. They probably are the same people. And disco did not die in 1979. But the name did. A disco magazine changed its name to Dance Music, the disco chart in Billboard was renamed and the clubs were now dance clubs. I loved the seventies music. We had disco [[dance) music, smooth soul music like Stylistics, Chi-lites, Blue Magic, and Motown was still going strong too.

I didn't see the Unsung episode, but it is on again today at 6 p.m. and I set my DVR to record it.

I would definitely say that disco, while it may have warped into something else after 1979, definitely lost that unmistakable vibe that defined the music's character up to '79. I do think however, that disco lasted a lot longer in Europe than in the U.S..

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those white bigots at the record burning make up a substantial percentage of the Republikkkan party today.

As usual though, that Unsung episode glossed over many pivotal records that were important to the rise of disco. "Girl, You Need A Change of Mind" by Eddie Kendricks immediately comes to mind. It also would've been nice to hear from members of Funk bands who got displaced on the radio by disco. And there was absolutely no mention of Frankie Crocker, who because of his overall restructuring of the format at WBLS, helped that station to overcome WKTU in the ratings race in 1979.

[soulster]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of those white bigots at the record burning make up a substantial percentage of the Republikkkan party today.
I would put money on it!


As usual though, that Unsung episode glossed over many pivotal records that were important to the rise of disco. "Girl, You Need A Change of Mind" by Eddie Kendricks immediately comes to mind. It also would've been nice to hear from members of Funk bands who got displaced on the radio by disco. And there was absolutely no mention of Frankie Crocker, who because of his overall restructuring of the format at WBLS, helped that station to overcome WKTU in the ratings race in 1979.

I'm listening to "Girl, You Need A Change Of Mind" right now, and I just don't hear anything pivotal about it. Too R&B. But, I agree with everything else you said. George Clinton was very vocal about how disco ruined funk. It didn't, but he felt it made it harder for funk to prosper during that time, and he was right about that much. And, yes, Frankie Crocker, the DJ everyone loved to hate. He appointed himself the gatekeeper of what R&B was to be accepted by radio, and it amounted to slick, watered-down R&B.

[R. Mark Desjardins]

In my mind, "Disco" still lives loud n' proud. Anytime I have a jones for it, I slip some Chic, Cheryl Lynn, Evelyn Champaigne King or Sylvester onto my turntable and I am magically transformed back in the day. Music is my drug of choice, and I love jazz, funk, soul, Motown, etc in equal doses. In a way, music never truly ages, but lies dormant for periods of time awaiting to be newly discovered and savored by new generations. Check out comments on Youtube in regards to "disco" masterpieces being enjoyed by young people today. As Shannon sang, "Let The Music Play."

[marv2]

I would put money on it!



I'm listening to "Girl, You Need A Change Of Mind" right now, and I just don't hear anything pivotal about it. Too R&B. But, I agree with everything else you said. George Clinton was very vocal about how disco ruined funk. It didn't, but he felt it made it harder for funk to prosper during that time, and he was right about that much. And, yes, Frankie Crocker, the DJ everyone loved to hate. He appointed himself the gatekeeper of what R&B was to be accepted by radio, and it amounted to slick, watered-down R&B.

"Girl You Need a Change of Mind" was pivotal because it was probably one of the first extended dance records that became extremely popular in New York City at parties, dance clubs etc.

George Clinton had the biggest hits of his career right in the middle of the Disco era. That's easy to verify.

[glencro]

And there was absolutely no mention of Frankie Crocker, who because of his overall restructuring of the format at WBLS, helped that station to overcome WKTU in the ratings race in 1979.

I too was surprised that there was no mention of Frankie Crocker or Larry Levan [[especially Crocker). The Salsoul label contributed some great music to the genre and was also completely overlooked. I know there was too much to cram into less than two hours but I thought that the Chic segment would have at least segued to a mere mention of Sister Sledge considering they recorded two of the biggest hits of that era.

[soulster]

George Clinton had the biggest hits of his career right in the middle of the Disco era. That's easy to verify.
I don't need to verify it. I was in high school during those years. I know. But, he has gone on record condemning disco music. he may have had a point. Once disco took hold, bands like Ohio Players and AWB couldn't get any action without disco-fying their sound. And, once they did, their popularity went down the toilet.

[timmyfunk]

I would put money on it!



I'm listening to "Girl, You Need A Change Of Mind" right now, and I just don't hear anything pivotal about it. Too R&B. But, I agree with everything else you said. George Clinton was very vocal about how disco ruined funk. It didn't, but he felt it made it harder for funk to prosper during that time, and he was right about that much. And, yes, Frankie Crocker, the DJ everyone loved to hate. He appointed himself the gatekeeper of what R&B was to be accepted by radio, and it amounted to slick, watered-down R&B.

While the Eddie Kendricks track had the R&B edge, it also had a club sensibility to it that gave it prominence in very early disco days.

I don't think that GC ever said disco ruined Funk. But he definitely said that because they narrowed it down to one drum beat [[which Janice Marie Johnson reiterated during the Unsung piece) it actually sowed the seeds of it's own destruction. And while I had some problems with the way that Frankie Crocker altered WBLS's format, he was very open minded, extremely knowledgeable about different kinds of music and had a great love and respect for the Funk.

[timmyfunk]

"Girl You Need a Change of Mind" was pivotal because it was probably one of the first extended dance records that became extremely popular in New York City at parties, dance clubs etc.

George Clinton had the biggest hits of his career right in the middle of the Disco era. That's easy to verify.

True, but they were definitely 'anti-disco' dance records. They were records that would rule most dance clubs, but the Studio 54 audience definitely couldn't handle unbridled Funk like, say, "Aqua Boogie".

You know, I've always wondered if GC and P-Funk had all of those hits because Jimmy Carter was in the white house. All of their biggest hits came during the Carter years.

[timmyfunk]

I too was surprised that there was no mention of Frankie Crocker or Larry Levan [[especially Crocker). The Salsoul label contributed some great music to the genre and was also completely overlooked. I know there was too much to cram into less than two hours but I thought that the Chic segment would have at least segued to a mere mention of Sister Sledge considering they recorded two of the biggest hits of that era.

Excellent observation. Salsoul was the sheeeet!

[manny]

The "Disco Music" concept is something that more I read or heard about it, more confusion I found about it.
Some time [[I believe) I explained here that I worked as barman in a macro - discotheque on my town during my student years and that was between 1979 - 1986. The DJ's on this discotheque were some jazz aficionados who conducted a radio station in another little town very close and the others were simply "workers" without a musical taste. The sessions, started some times with a monographic bloc of reagge [[Bob Marley & The Wailers, Peter, Tosh, Eddie Grant,...) and sometimes with one / one and a half hours of jazz - fusion / smooth jazz [[the entire "Street Life" album by Crusaders and / or the entire 2 x LP "Living Inside Your Love" by George Benson were regulary played jointly with tracks by MFSB [[from "Mysteries Of The World"), by Richard Tee [["Us"), by Grover Washington [["Winelight") or "Love Me, love Me Now" by Curtis Mayfield; the transition ca between fusion or reagge to the more danceable, more beats / p s tracks can be one time "Back To Me Roots" by Richie Havens before starting with the "pachanga" music un the bad sense [[music conceived only for the dance floor, "brain-less" lyrics and no one element to enjoy as a musical product to heard, only to move the body): euro disco [[Boney M, Pino d'Angio), Otawan, Sheila B Devotion, ... In the middle, there was a break of slow music with ballads by pop artists [[Culture Club, Spandau Ballet, italian singers, some soul ballads as "Turn Off The Lights" or "Reunited",...). The second bloc of danceable music can be more interesting as the beats / ps were in crescendo we can heard "Rock, Soul & Disco" or "The Move" by The Trammps, "You Ought To Be Dancing" by People's Choice, "Rap-O-Clap-O" - "Sadie [[She Smoke" by Joe Bataan, "The Breaks" by Kurtis Blow or "Shine On, Silver Moon" by Marylin McCoo & Billy Davis,Jr., Johnny Guitar Watson, Rick Jame's "Superfreak", Gap Band, Lynx, Raydio,... but also rock artists like Mike Oldfield [["Family Man", "Five Miles Out"), Queen, etc. Gradually the music ended with more latin elements [[some Salsoul orchestra track from the post-Vincent Montana era) and definitely ended with salsa in his more insubstantial version [["La Conga de Jalisto" !!!). The sintony that announced the lights went on and the session was finished was, ever, "Beyond" by Herb Alpert.

OK. You can think "What is this"? "a simply biographical note"? Perhaps, but I think there is an different significations in the word "disco" as in a dance floor of the era [[despite the fact I have tell us about the end of 70's - the birth - middle 80's) we can heard rock, pop, salsa, soul, funk, dance music with more and more electronic effects, jazz, fusion... and the word "pachanga" referred here in Spain to the disco-music in a despective sense is some times reserved to the more brain-less and insubstantial dane music [[not TO SOUL, R&B, POP or ROCK that people can only dance to but also to enjoy it herding the music). Sadly many other people during this era [[and the entire 70's previous decade) used to say "pachanga" for referring to ALL the music danceable. For example, I not only can heard a "disco smash" like "Love Is The Message", I can enjoy it without dancing, only hearding. I knows this was a "disco-smash" because more older people tell me they danced to, for me is a perfect jazz fusion number that, as says Kenny Gamble when somebody ask to him about he "invented disco" [[!!), is simply good "music you can heard it and / or dance to enjoying the lyrics" [[if it is a vocal track).

Finally, I think we can't classify as "disco" every track that can be played on a discotheque [[James Brown, Stones, Beatles, Otis, Aretha,... were "disco" stars attending this criteria). And if the 70's see the adoption of the "disco" label is not clear if was a marketing invention by RCA who after the "Soul explosion" logo in the Hues Corporation, Betty Wright or George McCrae 45's, changed it to "DISCO EXPLOSION" and the word goes on, despite the fact the music was the same: danceable soul.

Excuse memy bad english [[and unclear mind, :-) )

Cheers

[timmyfunk]

The "Disco Music" concept is something that more I read or heard about it, more confusion I found about it.
Some time [[I believe) I explained here that I worked as barman in a macro - discotheque on my town during my student years and that was between 1979 - 1986. The DJ's on this discotheque were some jazz aficionados who conducted a radio station in another little town very close and the others were simply "workers" without a musical taste. The sessions, started some times with a monographic bloc of reagge [[Bob Marley & The Wailers, Peter, Tosh, Eddie Grant,...) and sometimes with one / one and a half hours of jazz - fusion / smooth jazz [[the entire "Street Life" album by Crusaders and / or the entire 2 x LP "Living Inside Your Love" by George Benson were regulary played jointly with tracks by MFSB [[from "Mysteries Of The World"), by Richard Tee [["Us"), by Grover Washington [["Winelight") or "Love Me, love Me Now" by Curtis Mayfield; the transition ca between fusion or reagge to the more danceable, more beats / p s tracks can be one time "Back To Me Roots" by Richie Havens before starting with the "pachanga" music un the bad sense [[music conceived only for the dance floor, "brain-less" lyrics and no one element to enjoy as a musical product to heard, only to move the body): euro disco [[Boney M, Pino d'Angio), Otawan, Sheila B Devotion, ... In the middle, there was a break of slow music with ballads by pop artists [[Culture Club, Spandau Ballet, italian singers, some soul ballads as "Turn Off The Lights" or "Reunited",...). The second bloc of danceable music can be more interesting as the beats / ps were in crescendo we can heard "Rock, Soul & Disco" or "The Move" by The Trammps, "You Ought To Be Dancing" by People's Choice, "Rap-O-Clap-O" - "Sadie [[She Smoke" by Joe Bataan, "The Breaks" by Kurtis Blow or "Shine On, Silver Moon" by Marylin McCoo & Billy Davis,Jr., Johnny Guitar Watson, Rick Jame's "Superfreak", Gap Band, Lynx, Raydio,... but also rock artists like Mike Oldfield [["Family Man", "Five Miles Out"), Queen, etc. Gradually the music ended with more latin elements [[some Salsoul orchestra track from the post-Vincent Montana era) and definitely ended with salsa in his more insubstantial version [["La Conga de Jalisto" !!!). The sintony that announced the lights went on and the session was finished was, ever, "Beyond" by Herb Alpert.

OK. You can think "What is this"? "a simply biographical note"? Perhaps, but I think there is an different significations in the word "disco" as in a dance floor of the era [[despite the fact I have tell us about the end of 70's - the birth - middle 80's) we can heard rock, pop, salsa, soul, funk, dance music with more and more electronic effects, jazz, fusion... and the word "pachanga" referred here in Spain to the disco-music in a despective sense is some times reserved to the more brain-less and insubstantial dane music [[not TO SOUL, R&B, POP or ROCK that people can only dance to but also to enjoy it herding the music). Sadly many other people during this era [[and the entire 70's previous decade) used to say "pachanga" for referring to ALL the music danceable. For example, I not only can heard a "disco smash" like "Love Is The Message", I can enjoy it without dancing, only hearding. I knows this was a "disco-smash" because more older people tell me they danced to, for me is a perfect jazz fusion number that, as says Kenny Gamble when somebody ask to him about he "invented disco" [[!!), is simply good "music you can heard it and / or dance to enjoying the lyrics" [[if it is a vocal track).

Finally, I think we can't classify as "disco" every track that can be played on a discotheque [[James Brown, Stones, Beatles, Otis, Aretha,... were "disco" stars attending this criteria). And if the 70's see the adoption of the "disco" label is not clear if was a marketing invention by RCA who after the "Soul explosion" logo in the Hues Corporation, Betty Wright or George McCrae 45's, changed it to "DISCO EXPLOSION" and the word goes on, despite the fact the music was the same: danceable soul.

Excuse memy bad english [[and unclear mind, :-) )

Cheers

Which is why I personally make the distinction between disco records and club records. Club records are more agressive, more tribal, and more soulful. The P-Funk hits would move people in any club at that time, but would be met with indifference at a place like Studio 54 and the other "midtown' clubs.

[jillfoster]

I don't need to verify it. I was in high school during those years. I know. But, he has gone on record condemning disco music. he may have had a point. Once disco took hold, bands like Ohio Players and AWB couldn't get any action without disco-fying their sound. And, once they did, their popularity went down the toilet.

It's also possible that Funk had kind of played out. Some sub-genres of music have a limited lifespan of around 3-4 years.... like the whole "Orchestral pop" thing that was pretty popular from 68-72 [[which is my favorite of all sub-genres), or like Doo-wop, which was around for about 6 years. Disco was basically a hybrid of R&B and Classical, I think that overexposure was one of the biggest problems.

[motony]

there was nothing political or racist about the backlash against "disco" music.What had started in the early 70's as soul/R& B dance music had become labeled in '76 ,as big business got involved , with that galloping hoof beats, anyone can make a disco record sound. The backlash came from out of work musicians, singers & fans of LIVE music.Loved Lattimore' record "Discoed To Death".

[manny]

Yes, Timmyfunk

I understand your point and your comment made reminds me on a review I purchased around 97 - 98 year, spanish "Dance - de - Luxe" specially dedicated to the roots of House. Here the author explains the story of paradise Garage and The Loft where the music that was played [[essentially Motown, PIR, CTI and some first Salsoul tracks) were combined with live performances by Jones Girls, Pattie LaBelle and other luminaries. That is "Club Culture". I remember [[sadly, I don't keep the review) that some famous remixer says, comparing House and Rock, that the Rollings were inspired on John Lee Hooker's music and they the House movement DJ's have their own John Lee Hooker that were The Salsoul Orchestra's legacy. I don't like disco music, I likes soul music or any kind of music that contains feeling, feelings that can made cry or experimenting joy or fun and that is not incompatible with the fact some of these music can be also "danceable". I remember I purchased this number of "Dance - de - Luxe" because there was included a very good CD of the label "K-7!" with good and mellow tracks by Beth Hirsh [[considered by the critically as "the new laura Nyro"), Smith & Mighty, A Guy Called Gerald and the most mellow moods on Peace Orchestra, Tosca and Terranova tracks.

Cheers to all.

[jillfoster]

there was nothing political or racist about the backlash against "disco" music.What had started in the early 70's as soul/R& B dance music had become labeled in '76 ,as big business got involved , with that galloping hoof beats, anyone can make a disco record sound. The backlash came from out of work musicians, singers & fans of LIVE music.Loved Lattimore' record "Discoed To Death".

But really... the type of disco to which you refer is a fairly small percentage of the hits of the disco era. The sad part, was that in the eyes of some people... it was ALL bad, and many really great artists got caught up in it, such as the Bee Gees.. because at that time, for some reason people slagged them off for being a disco group, acting as if "I Started A Joke", "To Love Somebody", and "How Can You Mend A Broken Heart" never existed.

[luke]

I was surprised the show said that Loves Theme was the pivotal record for the beginning of disco.

[marv2]

I don't need to verify it. I was in high school during those years. I know. But, he has gone on record condemning disco music. he may have had a point. Once disco took hold, bands like Ohio Players and AWB couldn't get any action without disco-fying their sound. And, once they did, their popularity went down the toilet.

Look! You said that George Clinton stated the following:

George Clinton was very vocal about how disco ruined funk. It didn't, but he felt it made it harder for funk to prosper during that time, and he was right about that much

George said it made it harder for funk to prosper during that time and you agreed with him and I say bullshit!

George Clinton and company had huge hits between 1975 and 80, most notably:

"Tear the Roof Off the Sucka"
"Flashlight"
"One Nation Under A Groove"
"Aqua Boogie"
"Knee Deep" etc. etc

and don't even get me started on the type of success Bootsey and them saw between `1976-80. Those were some of the best funk records made and they were during the "Disco Era". They were not disco records, they were Funk and they sold millions of records during those years!

I am not even going to get into those big assed arena concerts with the Mothership and the whole crew I went to see in those years. George Clinton had it going on right smack dab in the middle of "Disco Fever".
That's my point

[soulster]

Which is why I personally make the distinction between disco records and club records. Club records are more agressive, more tribal, and more soulful. The P-Funk hits would move people in any club at that time, but would be met with indifference at a place like Studio 54 and the other "midtown' clubs.

That's how I see it too.

[soulster]

I was surprised the show said that Loves Theme was the pivotal record for the beginning of disco.
Barry White was one of the very few pioneers who deliberately set out to create disco records in 1973.

[soulster]

George said it made it harder for funk to prosper during that time and you agreed with him and I say bullshit!

George Clinton and company had huge hits between 1975 and 80, most notably:

"Tear the Roof Off the Sucka"
"Flashlight"
"One Nation Under A Groove"
"Aqua Boogie"
"Knee Deep" etc. etc

Hey Marv, my point, and perhaps I didn't explain myself very well, was that as disco danced on, funk records had a harder time on the pop charts with the mainstream audiences. Starting from around 1977, funk records were being regulated back to the soul charts. Sure, they were huge with the R&B audiences, but the pop crowd...well, "Brick House" was almost it.

Bands like Ohio Players, who, until 1977, made heavy-ass funk records that everyone loved. Then, they decided that they had to do disco to survive. Or, more likely, the record label decided for them. back then, companies put it in their contracts that each R&B artist had to have at least one disco song on an album. Some of them made a big joke out of it, too. remember "Don't Forget To Boogie Woogie" by Hues Corporation, or "Disco Dancin'" by Billy Preston? Terrible, terrible songs! Maurice White was pressured to make more pop tunes for Earth, Wind & Fire. His answer? "September". Later, he would put a lot of disco in their "I Am" album.


and don't even get me started on the type of success Bootsey and them saw between `1976-80. Those were some of the best funk records made and they were during the "Disco Era". They were not disco records, they were Funk and they sold millions of records during those years!

I am not even going to get into those big assed arena concerts with the Mothership and the whole crew I went to see in those years. George Clinton had it going on right smack dab in the middle of "Disco Fever".
That's my point

I'm not arguing with you. This stuff was huge, and I was all into P-funk at the time, just as much as I was into Chic. Again, I am saying that the popularity did not entirely cross over into mainstream success. Rick James may have scored with his semi-disco hit "You And I" in late 1978, but it took him three more years until "Street Songs".

[Ngroove]

I too was surprised that there was no mention of Frankie Crocker or Larry Levan [[especially Crocker). The Salsoul label contributed some great music to the genre and was also completely overlooked. I know there was too much to cram into less than two hours but I thought that the Chic segment would have at least segued to a mere mention of Sister Sledge considering they recorded two of the biggest hits of that era.

Hope it's only because Sister Sledge are yet to be UNSUNG-ed themselves - still pretty darn good lookin' today - and LOVE their "He's The Greatest Dancer", "We Are Family", "Thinking Of You", "Lost In Music", "Easier To Love", "Love Somebody Today", "You Fooled Around", "Easy Street", "Reach Your Peak"....

Same goes to, Vicki Sue Robinson - got her "Never Gonna Let You Go" and "Half and Half" albums, and gotta tell ya', hardly a single unlistenable track, especially "Never Gonna Let You Go", "We Can Do Almost Anything", "Common Thief", "Act Of Mercy", "Feels So Good It Must Be Wrong", "Jealousy", and yeah, "Turn the Beat Around", although dig "Never Gonna Let You Go" slightly more.

And Cheryl Lynn, whom personally, you'll probably find me groovin' more to "Encore" than "Got To Be Real".

[soulster]

And Cheryl Lynn, whom personally, you'll probably find me groovin' more to "Encore" than "Got To Be Real".
You serious??? "Got To Be Real" is still the jam! You must be young[[er).

[marv2]

Hey Marv, my point, and perhaps I didn't explain myself very well, was that as disco danced on, funk records had a harder time on the pop charts with the mainstream audiences. Starting from around 1977, funk records were being regulated back to the soul charts. Sure, they were huge with the R&B audiences, but the pop crowd...well, "Brick House" was almost it.



Ok, I'll buy that and that makes total sense. I guess I was in the lucky group because I could enjoy Funk and Disco all during the same time. I bought more albums in that era and partied harder that I should have been allowed to at that time LOL!

[soulster]

Ok, I'll buy that and that makes total sense. I guess I was in the lucky group because I could enjoy Funk and Disco all during the same time. I bought more albums in that era and partied harder that I should have been allowed to at that time LOL!

Oh, I also listened to both. In the 70s, didn't really buy disco albums, unless you consider Chic, Sister Sledge, and GQ disco, but I had almost all of the Parliament and Funkadelic albums, had The Brothers Johnson, Stevie Wonder, Rick James, The Jacksons, Natalie Cole, Commodores, Graham Central Station, Earth, Wind & Fire, Emotions, Brick, Ohio Players, Maze featuring Frankie Beverly, Johnny Guitar Watson, Ronnie Laws, Roy Ayers, Heatwave, Chuck Mangione, Bar-Kays...stuff like that...you get the picture. I had a few rock albums like Peter Frampton, Wild Cherry, Boston, ELO... But, I didn't have a lot of money, so I bought a lot of 45s. More bang for the buck.

I didn't really start buying tons of albums until the 1980. But I digress...

[Boogiedown]

After watching it, as I am a Christian who believes in abstinence [[besides "disco sex" it looks pretty cheap, and possibly even AIDS spreading anyways), and in partying IN CONTROL [[without mind-altering substances), kinda makes me glad I wasn't around in the initial disco age.

.
Makes me kinda glad you weren't around then either . Don't worry though, you could have stayed home and listened to your Anita Bryant records on Friday and Saturday nights .

That however, would have meant not participating in the intense dance scene that disco was inventing for itself.

I usually feel sorry for those who missed out on it, but not for those who wouldn't have appreciated it anyway . The disco scene wasn't for everybody , or should I say, just anybody.

Enjoying the reflections and thoughts by others on this topic .

[milven]

Makes me kinda glad you weren't around then either . Don't worry though, you could have stayed home and listened to your Anita Bryant records on Friday and Saturday nights .


:):):D Too funny. It was definitely a fun era. I'm glad I didn't miss it.

The two hour UNSUNG did leave out a few things. The club deejays were always searching for something new and unique. They found a lot of it in imported music. Artists like Love & Kisses, Santa Esmarelda, Cerrone and others were discovered by the dee-jays and then picked up by American Labels.

I enjoyed the two hours. Enough materiel to make it three of four hours.

[soulster]

Makes me kinda glad you weren't around then either . Don't worry though, you could have stayed home and listened to your Anita Bryant records on Friday and Saturday nights .

.........Naaaaah! I was gonna say something funny that would just fan the flames, but i'll let it go. besides, I already said my piece. We don't need to create hostility around here, but Ngroove did open the door. He grew up in the conservative era. He can't help it.

[glencro]

There's been this going debate about which songs actually are disco. I truly believe that a lot of the songs on the PIR label from Teddy, The O'jays, Jean Carne and others were straight up disco but some will argue that they were dance records done by soul singers DUH!!! [[what's the difference). Rufus & Chaka's "Any Love" IMO was a disco record while some will argue no. It was a great era of music that birthed out some great songs. I believe that the ones who are defensive and will argue that the records are not disco are probably trying to disassociate with the campy side of the genre [[such as the "Disco Ducks" )

[glencro]

Hope it's only because Sister Sledge are yet to be UNSUNG-ed themselves - still pretty darn good lookin' today - and LOVE their "He's The Greatest Dancer", "We Are Family", "Thinking Of You", "Lost In Music", "Easier To Love", "Love Somebody Today", "You Fooled Around", "Easy Street", "Reach Your Peak"....


Hopefully that is the case Ngroove

[manny]

There's been this going debate about which songs actually are disco. I truly believe that a lot of the songs on the PIR label from Teddy, The O'jays, Jean Carne and others were straight up disco but some will argue that they were dance records done by soul singers DUH!!! [[what's the difference). Rufus & Chaka's "Any Love" IMO was a disco record while some will argue no. It was a great era of music that birthed out some great songs. I believe that the ones who are defensive and will argue that the records are not disco are probably trying to disassociate with the campy side of the genre [[such as the "Disco Ducks" )

Hi, Glencro
Sorry I disagree totally with your assertion [["a lot of songs of PIR"). I started hearding soul music before my teens [[spanish Pop Tops, los Bravos, Edwin Hawking Singers,...) and started buying albums and 45's in my first teens [[O'Jays "Ship Ahoy" and "War Of The Gods" by Billy Paul were my first acquisitions): can you explain where is the "disco" element on these two albums? For me this is not only pure soul / jazz - soul but also great lyrics, innovative arrangements and bass - lines and, something that some criticals said: the guaranty in the first 70's that the SOUL idiom can survive after the impasse of the genre after the tragical Otis death.

You can say that "some" [[not a "lot") of PIR records exploited their own brings as the Earl Young 4 / 4 drum formula on "The Love I Lost" [[that was a simple accident! nothing deliberated) and we can see how this brings on some People's Choice, Trammps or O'Jays [["I Love Music") stuff, but, PIR keep on made jazz - soul, pure soul or fusion good stuff during the rest of seventies and until the 90's with The Dells and Universe. Another thing is they can produce "pure" disco music [[Frantique, The Force) or some of their regular producers [[Montana, Baker-Harris-Young, Bobby Martin, Bobby Eli, etc.) can be after or simultaneously involved producing dance music for Salsoul records, but at the same time we can say their signature on B.B. King, Fania all-Stars, Grady Tate albums. They are JAZZ MUSICIANS and they give a jazz flavor in all they do. Don't forget that Baker and Harris started on the jazz combo Catalyst and Bobby Martin with Lynn Hope Big Band and the natural utterance for jazz by Gamble, Huff, Billy Paul, Jean Carn or Lou Rawls.

You can say also "PIR invented [[or accidentally discovered) the elements that can be used for made dance music" and they used them themselves [[as Motown, TK, Soul Train - Solar,...) in the same way you can say that PIR "discovered" hip-hop [[the Jean Claude T album, from 1977! many years before Guru - Jazzmatazz); they "discovered" rap with Jocko Henderson and they contributed with new different versions of fusion with Dexter Wansel, Yellow Sunshine,... and keep on light the flame of soul revitalizing the carriers of soul classic singers [[Jerry Butler, Joe Simon, Wilson Pickett, Don Covay,...). They launched internationally some artists until now only famous locally or nationally. They made rock [[Jaggerz, Soul Survivors, Spiritual Concept,...), Jazz [[Thad Jones, Monk Montgomery,...), Blues [[Bobby Rush), gospel [[Ted Wortham, 5 Blind Boys,...). From the point of view of the general public who only knows about PIR by the usual "greatest hits compilations" perhaps PIR can be considered a source of ballad / mid tempos / danceable - disco-soul up tempos, but we are here talking between supoussed "serious soul aficionados".

Of course, this is MHO, and this is a friendly "disagree". A great salute to you and all.

[timmyfunk]

It's also possible that Funk had kind of played out. Some sub-genres of music have a limited lifespan of around 3-4 years.... like the whole "Orchestral pop" thing that was pretty popular from 68-72 [[which is my favorite of all sub-genres), or like Doo-wop, which was around for about 6 years. Disco was basically a hybrid of R&B and Classical, I think that overexposure was one of the biggest problems.

Funk was in no way played out during this time. In fact, Funk definitely out lasted disco, as you still had major Funk hits going to number one long after the disco train derailed [[[[not just) Knee Deep, Funkin For Jamaica, and More Bounce To The Ounce immediately come to mind).

[soulster]

There's been this going debate about which songs actually are disco. I truly believe that a lot of the songs on the PIR label from Teddy, The O'jays, Jean Carne and others were straight up disco but some will argue that they were dance records done by soul singers DUH!!! [[what's the difference). Rufus & Chaka's "Any Love" IMO was a disco record while some will argue no. It was a great era of music that birthed out some great songs. I believe that the ones who are defensive and will argue that the records are not disco are probably trying to disassociate with the campy side of the genre [[such as the "Disco Ducks" )

The difference is in the bass line and the tempo. R&B tends to be a bit slower, and disco tends to have simple bass lines, where R&B has more elaborate and deliberate bass lines.

Many people will argue that "Love Train" by The O'Jays, from 1972, is not disco [[probably because they like it :) ), but if you take off the vocals, as in Tom Moulton's remix, It's straight up disco, even though that's not what we called it back then.

[jillfoster]

Funk was in no way played out during this time. In fact, Funk definitely out lasted disco, as you still had major Funk hits going to number one long after the disco train derailed [[[[not just) Knee Deep, Funkin For Jamaica, and More Bounce To The Ounce immediately come to mind).

All three of those were 1979/1980. Ross had that many disco hits during the same period, try to find some examples from 1983/84. In the downfall of any genre, there are always going to be "stragglers".

[Ngroove]

all three of those were 1979/1980. Ross had that many disco hits during the same period, try to find some examples from 1983/84.

Madonna!!!

If it's danceable, it's DISCO - "Holiday", "Lucky Star", "Burning Up", "Angel", "Dress You Up", "Into The Groove"...

[jillfoster]

Madonna!!!

If it's danceable, it's DISCO - "Holiday", "Lucky Star", "Burning Up", "Angel", "Dress You Up", "Into The Groove"...

Oh, I agree... but I was challenging him to name funk hits from 83/84 to support his claim that funk outlasted disco. I think they both lived about the same.

[soulster]

Madonna!!!

If it's danceable, it's DISCO .
Nope. Is Does Your Mother Know That You're Out" by ABBA disco? You can dance to it...

The last bona-fide funk hit was probably "Word Up" or "Candy" by Cameo.

[glencro]

Hi, Glencro
Sorry I disagree totally with your assertion [["a lot of songs of PIR"). I started hearding soul music before my teens [[spanish Pop Tops, los Bravos, Edwin Hawking Singers,...) and started buying albums and 45's in my first teens [[O'Jays "Ship Ahoy" and "War Of The Gods" by Billy Paul were my first acquisitions): can you explain where is the "disco" element on these two albums? For me this is not only pure soul / jazz - soul but also great lyrics, innovative arrangements and bass - lines and, something that some criticals said: the guaranty in the first 70's that the SOUL idiom can survive after the impasse of the genre after the tragical Otis death.

You can say that "some" [[not a "lot") of PIR records exploited their own brings as the Earl Young 4 / 4 drum formula on "The Love I Lost" [[that was a simple accident! nothing deliberated) and we can see how this brings on some People's Choice, Trammps or O'Jays [["I Love Music") stuff, but, PIR keep on made jazz - soul, pure soul or fusion good stuff during the rest of seventies and until the 90's with The Dells and Universe. Another thing is they can produce "pure" disco music [[Frantique, The Force) or some of their regular producers [[Montana, Baker-Harris-Young, Bobby Martin, Bobby Eli, etc.) can be after or simultaneously involved producing dance music for Salsoul records, but at the same time we can say their signature on B.B. King, Fania all-Stars, Grady Tate albums. They are JAZZ MUSICIANS and they give a jazz flavor in all they do. Don't forget that Baker and Harris started on the jazz combo Catalyst and Bobby Martin with Lynn Hope Big Band and the natural utterance for jazz by Gamble, Huff, Billy Paul, Jean Carn or Lou Rawls.

You can say also "PIR invented [[or accidentally discovered) the elements that can be used for made dance music" and they used them themselves [[as Motown, TK, Soul Train - Solar,...) in the same way you can say that PIR "discovered" hip-hop [[the Jean Claude T album, from 1977! many years before Guru - Jazzmatazz); they "discovered" rap with Jocko Henderson and they contributed with new different versions of fusion with Dexter Wansel, Yellow Sunshine,... and keep on light the flame of soul revitalizing the carriers of soul classic singers [[Jerry Butler, Joe Simon, Wilson Pickett, Don Covay,...). They launched internationally some artists until now only famous locally or nationally. They made rock [[Jaggerz, Soul Survivors, Spiritual Concept,...), Jazz [[Thad Jones, Monk Montgomery,...), Blues [[Bobby Rush), gospel [[Ted Wortham, 5 Blind Boys,...). From the point of view of the general public who only knows about PIR by the usual "greatest hits compilations" perhaps PIR can be considered a source of ballad / mid tempos / danceable - disco-soul up tempos, but we are here talking between supoussed "serious soul aficionados".

Of course, this is MHO, and this is a friendly "disagree". A great salute to you and all.

Manny, I am aware that PIR was responsible for more than dance music. They released some of the greatest ballads of our time and the blues of Bobby Rush, spoken word of Jean Claude T, funk and rock of Spiritual Concept and so much more. My point was that many soul heads will not admit that certain songs are disco because many thought that disco was campy.

There's no denying that such songs as Teddy P's "The More I Get, The More I Want", Harold Melvin's "Bad Luck", The O'jays "I Love Music". Jean Carne's "Was That All There Was", Lou Rawl's "See You When I Get There" and various tracks from The Trammps, People's Choice, Bunny Sigler and others were great disco records. But we are here to agree to disagree. That what makes a forum a forum.

[glencro]

Madonna!!!

If it's danceable, it's DISCO - "Holiday", "Lucky Star", "Burning Up", "Angel", "Dress You Up", "Into The Groove"...

There's definitely a different Ngroove. Madonna's music would never be considered disco, dance yes but not disco

[manny]

Hi, Glencro

Of course, we're here to agree or disagree and that is not only the "soul of the forum" but in addition something highly positive to get everyone richer on our own points of view. Despite the fact I hate to see the typical various artists selections were under the umbrella of "Greatest Disco Hits from 70's" we can see Boney M, Village People, Otawn and Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes, O'Jays and Herbie Hancock. The same on viceversa cases, the typical "70's Soul Selection", where we can see Otis, Aretha, Marvin, Three Degrees, etc. jointly with Donna Summer, Roberta Kelly or Silver Convention. I can admit "You Can't Hide From Yourself" got a up-tempo high on bpm but is a 100% R&B - Soul idiom! The same in the most danceable Trammp's song, as "Disco Inferno" in no one way comparable with "YMCA", as The Trammps [[The Volcanos in the 60's!) do all the things they do in a 100% R&B basis.

Perhaps we should to admit that, simply, that "disco" is a "polisemic" - poliedric word where we can put danceable rock, danceable soul, danceable classical music or simply that some "heads have difficult to admit the same and common definition", the brain less, campy and unsubstantial music that George Clinton hated and the stupid people of "Disco Sucks" burned...

A great salute and a pleasure to discussing with you

[timmyfunk]

All three of those were 1979/1980. Ross had that many disco hits during the same period, try to find some examples from 1983/84. In the downfall of any genre, there are always going to be "stragglers".

Let's see now: Atomic Dog by George Clinton, Dance Floor by Zapp, Early in The Morning by the Gap Band, Juicy Fruit by Mtume, Cold Blooded by Rick James. And those are just the number one hits. I didn't get into the Funk jams were rocked in the clubs that didn't hit the top ten. Please keep in mind that Funk wasn't just a genre. It was an musical outgrowth of Black experience. As long as the experience is alive, the music produced from that experience will live as well.

[Ngroove]

Oh, I agree... but I was challenging him to name funk hits from 83/84 to support his claim that funk outlasted disco. I think they both lived about the same.

Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis?

Extend it to 1987:

-SOS Band - "Just Be Good To Me"
- SOS Band - "Just the Way You Like It"
- SOS Band - "Borrowed Love"
- SOS Band [[feat. Alexander O' Neil) - "The Finest"
- Cherrelle - "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On"
- Alexander O' Neal [[should be feat. Cherrelle) "Innocent"
- Cherrelle & Alexander O' Neal - "Saturday Love"
- Alexander O' Neal & Cherrelle - "Never Knew Love Like This"
- Alexander O' Neal - "Fake
- Alexander O' Neal - "Criticize"
- Alexander O' Neal - "All True Man"
- Cherrelle - "Affair"
- Morris Day "Fishnet"

LOVE that keytar!

[timmyfunk]

Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis?

Extend it to 1987:

-SOS Band - "Just Be Good To Me"
- SOS Band - "Just the Way You Like It"
- SOS Band - "Borrowed Love"
- SOS Band [[feat. Alexander O' Neil) - "The Finest"
- Cherrelle - "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On"
- Alexander O' Neal [[should be feat. Cherrelle) "Innocent"
- Cherrelle & Alexander O' Neal - "Saturday Love"
- Alexander O' Neal & Cherrelle - "Never Knew Love Like This"
- Alexander O' Neal - "Fake
- Alexander O' Neal - "Criticize"
- Alexander O' Neal - "All True Man"
- Cherrelle - "Affair"
- Morris Day "Fishnet"

LOVE that keytar!

Cameo, Rick James, ConFunkShun, Prince, Midnight Star, The Time and various other Funk bands kept the music alive way past Disco's shelf life.

[timmyfunk]

Nope. Is Does Your Mother Know That You're Out" by ABBA disco? You can dance to it...

The last bona-fide funk hit was probably "Word Up" or "Candy" by Cameo.

What about "Da Butt" by E.U.? "Jerk Out" by The Time? "HouseQuake" and "Sign O The Times" by Prince?

[Ngroove]

Cameo, Rick James, ConFunkShun, Prince, Midnight Star, The Time and various other Funk bands kept the music alive way past Disco's shelf life.

Admittedly, yeah, half see Jillfoster's point - by 1983, with different line-ups, Commodores and Shalamar were not the same, to virtually die down by 1985, Lakeside, Dynasty, Con Funk Shun, and Dazz Band would soon eventually lag, Patrice Rushen, though love "Watch Out!", her big ones were further in between, so would be Earth, Wind, and Fire, Kool and the Gang, their "survival" was complete 360 change, Skyy, Surface, Atlantic Starr, by the time they would hit again, slightly that too.

[glencro]

Some people won't say "soulful" and "disco" in the same sentence. I agree that a track by the Village People and a track by the Trammps had a different feel but I still feel that they are both disco. Enjoyed discussing with you. IMO this song is soulful, funky yet disco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxeq_K0K6-o

[soulster]

What about "Da Butt" by E.U.? "Jerk Out" by The Time? "HouseQuake" and "Sign O The Times" by Prince?
Forgot about "Housequake"!

I call EU "go-go" music, a genre that was popular particularly in the D.C. area in the 70s and 80s. It was given nationwide exposure primarily by bands like Chuck Brown & The Soul Searchers [["We The People", "Bustin' Loose"). By the time The Time came out with the "Pandemonium" album, I had given up on them. They just aren't the same without Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis. I don't even recall if Jesse Johnson was on that album.

[soulster]

Some people won't say "soulful" and "disco" in the same sentence. I agree that a track by the Village People and a track by the Trammps had a different feel but I still feel that they are both disco.
Sure they were!

There are two things at work here: Some people believe that if the song had the soulful, even sweaty, gruffy male vocal, it can't be disco. The music was powerful and driving just enough to be...ahem...manly. It has a strong bass line. It has a blaring brass section. The keyboards recalled the Blaxploitation sound of the early 70s. The only thing "disco" about "Disco Inferno", they may say, are the strings. The Village People's music had a different rhythm pattern. The secret of the difference between disco and R&B/funk is always in the rhythm section, not in the vocals. But, most people [[non-musicians) tend to focus on the vocals.

[daddyacey]

As I have always said..... The LABEL of "Disco" is just a commercial and in effect a GENERIC label for many types of DANCEABLE music ,that already existed. One example is "NOW THAT WE FOUND LOVE". The song itself is constant in content ,yet the O'JAY's version [[the original) has been considered as Philly R&B and Disco and the Third World version is considered REGGAE and Disco. W.T.F.??? DISCO is the only "genre" that can claim [[lump) recordings made prior to it's [[DISCO)"creation" ,as "DISCO" which came into being in 75. One example---- Kendricks "GIRL YOU NEED A CHANGE OF MIND" ,from 72. Burned up the dance floor in 72 ,and we didn't call it DISCO , until 75-76 , all of a sudden it's a DISCO classic? W.T.F.?


IMO ,"DISCO" is a bad word ,given too much attention and a stigma given to many recordings ,causing them to be attached to a FAD that's cartoonish in nature and simply just a victim of commercial and pimpification of good music ,R&B and FUNK ,LATIN and JAZZ in nature. That is shown in the many examples that all of you have shown in naming the many tracks in the above posts. Bottom line is that it ,"DISCO" ,applies to certain recordings more so than others , and that application is subjective to individual opinion , however ,one thing remains , no two things remain constant throughout the genre they call "DISCO" and that is R&B and THE FUNK. However way you mix it they both MUST be and are there.

[marv2]

Let's see now: Atomic Dog by George Clinton, Dance Floor by Zapp, Early in The Morning by the Gap Band, Juicy Fruit by Mtume, Cold Blooded by Rick James. And those are just the number one hits. I didn't get into the Funk jams were rocked in the clubs that didn't hit the top ten. Please keep in mind that Funk wasn't just a genre. It was an musical outgrowth of Black experience. As long as the experience is alive, the music produced from that experience will live as well.

Timmy, I would add "Rock It" - Herbie Hancock
"Smurf"
"Ain't Nobody" - Rufus featuring Chaka Khan
"Mr. Groove" & "Cutie Pie" - Al Hudson and One Way
"Pac Jam" - Jonzun Crew

[manny]

Hello again, Glencro, Daddyacey and all.

This thread is becoming more and more interesting. The track by Tata Vega made me think on the one by Teena Marie, "I Need Your Lovin'"...

Daddyacey. Here in Spain, along the second half of the 70's and the first half of the 80's there was a great STIGMA with "afroamerican music" in general. There was only two categories from the point of view of the criticals and the general public who "heard PROGRESSIVE ROCK" [[!!??): "There's only Jazz, Blues, James Brown, Aretha and Otis in one extreme and simply brain less dance-disco music in the other whiteout a grey - scale". And everybody who heard "brain - less / reiterative rhythm dance music, of course is a BRAIN LESS person". I've been stigmatized when i owned a soul music program in a little radio station on my town. And by my friends [[who heard "progressive rock", folk, John Mayall,... They called me "hortera" [[= "freaky") for the reason I heard Philly Sound, Motown, and Curtis and The Crusaders!

The label "disco" have been doing a very HURT in many musicians; as the example I put before [[RCA and the logo "Soul Explosion" and little after "Disco Explosion"), there was a time in the middle - late 70's when the label "Disco" / "Especial para Discotecas" was on the front cover of 45's by The Crusaders [["Stomp Buck & Dance"), Gil Scott-Heron [["Johannesburg"), Joe Tex [["Rub Down"); Return To Forever [["Nite Sprite") and MIKE OLDFIELD [[so admired by the progressive rock lovers and also by myself) [["family Man" and "Guilty"). Of course, those "progressive rock lovers" don't admit that Mike Oldfield made no one disco record.

Theres also one spanish author who writes a "Rock History" on two separate volumes and says that "In the beginning of the 70's, Barry White, MFSB, G & H and the artists they "MANIPULATED", created a vulgar kind of funk exclusively orientated to the dance floor, many good artists followed this movement and soul music was dead because this fact". He added also "some of the artists on the 70's as Rufus, Earth Wind & Fire, etc., were safe of this phenomena". Also, he talks very good about Hall & Oates and says as a "credential" and in the first place that they "DON'T HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WTH GAMBLE & HUFF, DESPITE THE FACT THEY'RE FROM PHILLY". I launched this book from the window of the train when i purchased it and was reading it backing to my home from Barcelona. These stupid people have contributed to stigmatizing many good afroamerican music in general and the music created in the "STIGMA" Sound Studios on particular.

A great salute to you' all

[jillfoster]

Just puttin this out there:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6UTgwKbz3o

[milven]

Just puttin this out there:

Kinda makes me appreciate Ethel Merman's disco album :D

[daddyacey]

Thanks manny and jillfoster for your info. Acroos the globe "DISCO" is labeled as "Afroamerican Music" ,which is what "DISCO " was derived from. Just as "ROCK &ROLL" was and "RAP" was turned to "HIP-HOP was and so on and so on. HIP-HOP/RAP influenced GOSPEL is popular now, a big business. The lines of R&B/FUNK/POP have been blurred to an extreme degree because of a steady progression of commercial influence over the last 30 years starting at the "DISCO" era. Yes even JESUS has been DISCOFIED and HIP-HOPPED over the years. All of this has affected how we view music today ,along with social and techno changes. That's why the history of the genre ,[[R&B) should be taught and not generalized in programe's the way they are in the TV1 series. Detail is the key. Facts...

[glencro]

Kinda makes me appreciate Ethel Merman's disco album :D

LMAO...OMG wow, as much as I want Jesus to lift me higher that was rough to get through. Now The Clark Sisters dabbled in a lil disco during the era and put a lil fire on it IMO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElxOitekT-k

[jillfoster]

Love the Clark Sisters' songs! Yeah, Tammy Faye is a good singer, and has some great records... but that one ain't one of them! LOL

[timmyfunk]

Admittedly, yeah, half see Jillfoster's point - by 1983, with different line-ups, Commodores and Shalamar were not the same, to virtually die down by 1985, Lakeside, Dynasty, Con Funk Shun, and Dazz Band would soon eventually lag, Patrice Rushen, though love "Watch Out!", her big ones were further in between, so would be Earth, Wind, and Fire, Kool and the Gang, their "survival" was complete 360 change, Skyy, Surface, Atlantic Starr, by the time they would hit again, slightly that too.

It may not have been my favorite period of Funk, but the bands that I've listed definitely kept the genre alive when disco was all but a fleeting memory.

[timmyfunk]

Forgot about "Housequake"!

I call EU "go-go" music, a genre that was popular particularly in the D.C. area in the 70s and 80s. It was given nationwide exposure primarily by bands like Chuck Brown & The Soul Searchers [["We The People", "Bustin' Loose"). By the time The Time came out with the "Pandemonium" album, I had given up on them. They just aren't the same without Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis. I don't even recall if Jesse Johnson was on that album.

And what is Go-Go music but a branch of the Funk music genre. In the end, Go-Go IS the Funk.

[chidrummer]

Damn Right, T-Funk!!:cool: '88's Doin' Da Butt has always been my [[un)official end of the Funk era song before rap just completely dominated everything.

I thought the show was pretty much dead on except for some of the minor details that have been listed here on the forum. Some things I'd like to add:

In one of my very early posts on SDF, I mentioned that I thought Disco started with the PIR records of the early 70's. Bobby Eli schooled me that what MFSB was doing was Philly Soul.
I got the impression from him and some of the other musicians involved with Gamble & Huff's productions, that they felt music was co-opted and repackaged and marketed to the mainstream public as Disco.

That kind of blends with what I remember George Clinton saying about Disco at the time. Quotes like, " Disco will get on your last nerve" was his way of saying Disco was prepackaged music with out a personality. The music had no soul. I think the musicians at PIR were trying to say the same thing.

In many ways I've always thought of the Saturday Night Fever phenomenum as being late to the party; the two minute warning before the end. From time to time I still hear rumblings about the Disco Demolition stunt at Cominsky Park in the summer of '79. Both Steve Dahl and Gerry Meier are still on the radio [[different formats, different stations) but that day really did change things. As for whether or not there was a racial component to Disco Demolition, of course there was, it was just one of a handful of reasons.

For those of you who were not there, the Unsung piece was right when it says that Disco was everywhere in 78/79. It was all over the radio, commercials, TV shows, fashion. So, if you were a red-blooded lover of KISS, Rush, Aerosmith, ELO, YES, etc. you absolutely HATED Disco with a passion. These also tended to be the same people who couldn't dance if you put a gun to their heads, so just had no use for it. Add to this base, the homophobes, the racists and the sexists youths of the time and you have 70 thousand mostly white folks ready to blow up anything that reminded them of these outside groups. The fact that not just Disco records, but Motown, PIR and JB records were all thrown into the box that night is a testament to how wide-spread the hatred was.

The funny thing was is that the music itself never died, but the marketing sure did. The very night of the demolition, Frankie Knuckles was already throwin' down some heavy duty parties at The Warehouse. In New York, rap had been on the streets for almost 3 years and
Rapper's Delight was about month away from its release.

Disco just morphed into House. Here in Chicago the Hot Mix 5, Micky "Mixin'" Oliver, Scott Seals, Kenny "Jamin'" Jayson, Farley "Funkin'" Keith and Ralphie "Rockin'" Rosario were playing House grooves on the WBMX every Saturday Night until the early 90's. They still pop up air occasionally. Over time, the beats at The Warehouse and later The Muzic Box got faster and faster and so Disco still lives to this day. It's just going by a variety of aliases.

[chidrummer]

BTW, Where's Tom Moulton on this?!!!!

[timmyfunk]

Damn Right, T-Funk!!:cool: '88's Doin' Da Butt has always been my [[un)official end of the Funk era song before rap just completely dominated everything.

I thought the show was pretty much dead on except for some of the minor details that have been listed here on the forum. Some things I'd like to add:

In one of my very early posts on SDF, I mentioned that I thought Disco started with the PIR records of the early 70's. Bobby Eli schooled me that what MFSB was doing was Philly Soul.
I got the impression from him and some of the other musicians involved with Gamble & Huff's productions, that they felt music was co-opted and repackaged and marketed to the mainstream public as Disco.

That kind of blends with what I remember George Clinton saying about Disco at the time. Quotes like, " Disco will get on your last nerve" was his way of saying Disco was prepackaged music with out a personality. The music had no soul. I think the musicians at PIR were trying to say the same thing.

In many ways I've always thought of the Saturday Night Fever phenomenum as being late to the party; the two minute warning before the end. From time to time I still hear rumblings about the Disco Demolition stunt at Cominsky Park in the summer of '79. Both Steve Dahl and Gerry Meier are still on the radio [[different formats, different stations) but that day really did change things. As for whether or not there was a racial component to Disco Demolition, of course there was, it was just one of a handful of reasons.

For those of you who were not there, the Unsung piece was right when it says that Disco was everywhere in 78/79. It was all over the radio, commercials, TV shows, fashion. So, if you were a red-blooded lover of KISS, Rush, Aerosmith, ELO, YES, etc. you absolutely HATED Disco with a passion. These also tended to be the same people who couldn't dance if you put a gun to their heads, so just had no use for it. Add to this base, the homophobes, the racists and the sexists youths of the time and you have 70 thousand mostly white folks ready to blow up anything that reminded them of these outside groups. The fact that not just Disco records, but Motown, PIR and JB records were all thrown into the box that night is a testament to how wide-spread the hatred was.

The funny thing was is that the music itself never died, but the marketing sure did. The very night of the demolition, Frankie Knuckles was already throwin' down some heavy duty parties at The Warehouse. In New York, rap had been on the streets for almost 3 years and
Rapper's Delight was about month away from its release.

Disco just morphed into House. Here in Chicago the Hot Mix 5, Micky "Mixin'" Oliver, Scott Seals, Kenny "Jamin'" Jayson, Farley "Funkin'" Keith and Ralphie "Rockin'" Rosario were playing House grooves on the WBMX every Saturday Night until the early 90's. They still pop up air occasionally. Over time, the beats at The Warehouse and later The Muzic Box got faster and faster and so Disco still lives to this day. It's just going by a variety of aliases.

This post deserves a standing ovation in terms of cogent and intelligent analysis. Not that the other posts weren't on target. But this post was dead on target. I cannot stand when people deny the racist component of that horrid disco demolition rally. Nile Rodgers at least had the guts to point out the supreme absence of black folks at that rally.

[soulster]

And what is Go-Go music but a branch of the Funk music genre. In the end, Go-Go IS the Funk.
I agree! It ain't no disco, that's for sure!

[marv2]

This post deserves a standing ovation in terms of cogent and intelligent analysis. Not that the other posts weren't on target. But this post was dead on target. I cannot stand when people deny the racist component of that horrid disco demolition rally. Nile Rodgers at least had the guts to point out the supreme absence of black folks at that rally.

I know there was a racial component to it. I was in my Freshman year of college when Disco was in full swing. It was a private school with a 99% white student population. We all got along for the most part until it came to the music! This was the fall of 1978 and many of the dudes in my dorm were into Rock and harder Rock! LOL! I remember Chic's "Le Freak" being played at a Halloween Party. It did not go over exceeding well with some at the party ,but I partied!!!!

[soulster]

I know there was a racial component to it. I was in my Freshman year of college when Disco was in full swing. It was a private school with a 99% white student population. We all got along for the most part until it came to the music! This was the fall of 1978 and many of the dudes in my dorm were into Rock and harder Rock! LOL! I remember Chic's "Le Freak" being played at a Halloween Party. It did not go over exceeding well with some at the party ,but I partied!!!!
Lots of whites are ashamed of the racist component That's why they deny it just as much as they deny that the tea party is racist.

[marv2]

Lots of whites are ashamed of the racist component That's why they deny it just as much as they deny that the tea party is racist.

Racism is something to be ashamed of. It's stems from ignorance, but at the same time some people seem to have an inability to control it or themselves. They know it does not make sense but they go with it any way. I had not heard of a "tea party" until Obama became President.

[soulster]

Racism is something to be ashamed of. It's stems from ignorance, but at the same time some people seem to have an inability to control it or themselves. They know it does not make sense but they go with it any way. I had not heard of a "tea party" until Obama became President.
That's because there was no modern-day tea-party until he became president.

[manny]

The difference is in the bass line and the tempo. R&B tends to be a bit slower, and disco tends to have simple bass lines, where R&B has more elaborate and deliberate bass lines.

Many people will argue that "Love Train" by The O'Jays, from 1972, is not disco [[probably because they like it :) ), but if you take off the vocals, as in Tom Moulton's remix, It's straight up disco, even though that's not what we called it back then.

Hi, Soulster

And if I made the mental effort of takin' off the instrumentation on "Love Train", the result I can "heard" is PURE GOSPEL

[chidrummer]

Why Thank You, kind sir. Just trying to tell it like it was.

manny and soulster, this is the point I was trying to make. The sound of Love Train without the vocals is the sound of classic Philly Soul as played by MFSB with the string and horn arrangements by Bobby Martin.

Parts of that sound: Mainly, Earl Young's drum pattern and the way Martin used brass & strings were just straight up "stolen" . Add an octave bass line [[think Car Wash) and you have the basic formula for every Disco tune ever made. The only thing that changed much was the singer[[s) and the guitar and keyboard parts.

In my opinion, it's Bobby Martin who is never given proper credit for his massive contribution to the original sound of Disco.

[luke]

Does Tammy Faye have a frog in her throat? Scary

[cozmic]

By the time The Time came out with the "Pandemonium" album, I had given up on them. They just aren't the same without Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis. I don't even recall if Jesse Johnson was on that album.
The complete and original Time-lineup was still together on that album, hence for Jesse getting expanded exposure to cut his axx on jams such as "Blondie" and "Skillett", or Morris nodding to Jesse to "cut it" during the breakdown of "Jerk Out". All that and more with Jam & Lewis on the ride with interviews, shows on Saturday Night Live, Arsenio Hall, plus a brief tour in Europe and Japan.

Cameo went briefly into the new wave-rock direction with tracks like "Alligator Woman", "Secrets Of Time", "This Life Is Not For Me", "Style", "Cameo's Dance", "Let's Not Talk Slot" and "L'eve Toi", before redirecting their formula with a customized and industrial beat in tracks such as "Single Life", "Word Up" and "Candy".

[cozmic]

"Girl You Need a Change of Mind" was pivotal because it was probably one of the first extended dance records that became extremely popular in New York City at parties, dance clubs etc.
Yep, appears around 13:40 along with an excellent explanation by dj Nicky Siano [[The Gallery).


www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zQpMnU6N4o

[cozmic]

BTW, Where's Tom Moulton on this?!!!!
He's on the UK docu which I posted above. Both Unsung's & UK's episodes either fill or leave out gaps somewhat. The disco genre could therefore have a few episodes.

Speaking of "Da Butt". That jam had a grammy nomination or either won one, by producer/writer Marcus Miller.

[cozmic]

Admittedly, yeah, half see Jillfoster's point - by 1983, with different line-ups, Commodores and Shalamar were not the same, to virtually die down by 1985, Lakeside, Dynasty, Con Funk Shun, and Dazz Band would soon eventually lag, Patrice Rushen, though love "Watch Out!", her big ones were further in between, so would be Earth, Wind, and Fire, Kool and the Gang, their "survival" was complete 360 change, Skyy, Surface, Atlantic Starr, by the time they would hit again, slightly that too.
Some of the mentioned groups were still active during the late 80s or into the 90s, if you check their discographies. Atlantic Starr pretty much went the "quiet storm" route because that was a selling format with artists like Anita Baker, Sade, Freddie Jackson and others.

[marv2]

Yep, appears around 13:40 along with an excellent explanation by dj Nicky Siano [[The Gallery).


www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zQpMnU6N4o

Thanks Cozmic! I knew my memory is mostly still there, hehehehe!

[cozmic]

Thanks Cozmic! I knew my memory is mostly still there, hehehehe!
You're welcome! And thank you too + others here to share your memories! :cool:

[cozmic]

Patrice Rushen, though love "Watch Out!", her big ones were further in between, so would be Earth, Wind, and Fire, Kool and the Gang, their "survival" was complete 360 change, Skyy, Surface, Atlantic Starr, by the time they would hit again, slightly that too.
That's indeed a great track which video I recently checked again online :cool:
, with solid bass fills by Freddie "Ready" Washington


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaB9xEr1JPU