Original People Magazine article about M25

[luke]

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20084728,00.html

[Roberta75]

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20084728,00.html

Why do I get a gut feeling that you trying to start up something up?

[rod_rick]

Why do I get a gut feeling that you trying to start up something up?

Roberta, that's only if you take it that way and respond to it. It's funny how some of you will get caught up or create maddness for no reason and then cry about it later after you've gone back and fouth with a poster on these threads.

Luke thanks for the article because I have never read it.

[marv2]

Thanks Luke. I will read it later and let's discuss.

[Methuselah2]

Thanks for posting this, Luke. It's interesting to read this now and to see the focus of the article's attention. The Supremes were not all that Motown was about but it's clear that their popularity and importance eclipsed a lot of other great talents. I was crazy about Diana, Mary, and Flo, too. I still am. But I'm crazy about many others now who were there, as well, and were not there anywhere near long enough for me. Of course Motown had to put its resources into what was most beneficial for the company. But a price was paid, and a lot a very talented people seem to have helped pay for it by not receiving attention.

If I ever get the chance to ask Berry Gordy just one question about the workings of Motown, I would want to know what went into the decision not to invite The Funk Bros. and The Andantes to this event. As much as I don't know about Motown, this is the one issue I would like to understand. And I know it's not really for me to understand, either.

[Jaap]

I am surprised the article does not mention Michael Jackson, whose performance is widely considered to be the highlight of Motown 25 [[though for me personally, the highlight was the Four Tops / Temptations medley... and yes, I did like Ross's little dance during the Adam Ant performance)...

[marv2]

Thanks for posting this, Luke. It's interesting to read this now and to see the focus of the article's attention. The Supremes were not all that Motown was about but it's clear that their popularity and importance eclipsed a lot of other great talents. I was crazy about Diana, Mary, and Flo, too. I still am. But I'm crazy about many others now who were there, as well, and were not there anywhere near long enough for me. Of course Motown had to put its resources into what was most beneficial for the company. But a price was paid, and a lot a very talented people seem to have helped pay for it by not receiving attention.

If I ever get the chance to ask Berry Gordy just one question about the workings of Motown, I would want to know what went into the decision not to invite The Funk Bros. and The Andantes to this event. As much as I don't know about Motown, this is the one issue I would like to understand. And I know it's not really for me to understand, either.

The Funk Brothers were not even mentioned. They along with a host of performers still alive and in Detroit at the time were not invited.

[marv2]

Oh and I was finished forever with Diana Ross after that night when she shoved Mary Wilson and showed out in general. Later that same year I was able to let her know face to face what I thought of her and her actions that night. Thank God!

[woodward]

The Funk Brothers were not even mentioned. They along with a host of performers still alive and in Detroit at the time were not invited.
The most notable omission from this show was the exclusion of Marv Johnson. In an interview with the Metro Times published in the Nov. 23-29, 1983 issue, Marv stated that Motown and BG "wronged him repeatedly" over the years. "Look, I cut the first 45 for Motown and my name was not even metioned on the show. Even the man who can say things real fast, I think they call him motor mouth, didn't even mention my name," Johnson fumed. "I go back to the very beginning of Motown . . . and they left me out." Johnson further claimed he attempted several times to get information pertaining to his career at Motown but was told the company couldn't find any records or photos in their files about him.

However, in retrospect, at Marv Johnson's funeral in Detroit, Esther Gordy Edwards addressed the service praising Marv for his contributions to Motown Records.

[luke]

Do tell Marv! What did Madame say? I do believe it was revealed thay night why the Supremes had been so micromanaged per Diana's behavioral impulses. Ross' career never fully recovered after this evening. Do we know everything that was in the extra three hours of taping--Syreeta, Ashford and Simpson and what else?

[marybrewster]

From a historical standpont, it's an interesting read.

It's pretty telling that this "shove" was mentioned well into the article. For being "big news", one would think it would be the headline; the first sentence. And I had always though this incident happened during "Someday"?

Wasn't there also an article in US Weekely [[I think?) that supposedly included a picture? THAT would be something to see.

Regardless, it's funny how something that happened 30 years ago is still being talked about.

[Motown Eddie]

The most notable omission from this show was the exclusion of Marv Johnson. In an interview with the Metro Times published in the Nov. 23-29, 1983 issue, Marv stated that Motown and BG "wronged him repeatedly" over the years. "Look, I cut the first 45 for Motown and my name was not even metioned on the show. Even the man who can say things real fast, I think they call him motor mouth, didn't even mention my name," Johnson fumed. "I go back to the very beginning of Motown . . . and they left me out." Johnson further claimed he attempted several times to get information pertaining to his career at Motown but was told the company couldn't find any records or photos in their files about him.

However, in retrospect, at Marv Johnson's funeral in Detroit, Esther Gordy Edwards addressed the service praising Marv for his contributions to Motown Records.

You are right about Marv Johnson's omission from "Motown 25". And along with him, The Funk Bros & The Andantes, another unfortunate omission from the show is The Marvelettes. As we Motown fans know, The Marvelettes would have the first Motown hit to top both the R&B & Pop charts with "Please Mr. Postman" and would remain major stars on the label through the mid '60s.

[marv2]

The most notable omission from this show was the exclusion of Marv Johnson. In an interview with the Metro Times published in the Nov. 23-29, 1983 issue, Marv stated that Motown and BG "wronged him repeatedly" over the years. "Look, I cut the first 45 for Motown and my name was not even metioned on the show. Even the man who can say things real fast, I think they call him motor mouth, didn't even mention my name," Johnson fumed. "I go back to the very beginning of Motown . . . and they left me out." Johnson further claimed he attempted several times to get information pertaining to his career at Motown but was told the company couldn't find any records or photos in their files about him.

However, in retrospect, at Marv Johnson's funeral in Detroit, Esther Gordy Edwards addressed the service praising Marv for his contributions to Motown Records.

Marv Johnson was a great guy as well as a fantastic singer/performer. He was friends with my parents. He had to have felt hurt when he was practically erased from Motown's history during that and every other Motown Anniversary type program. Look what they did to Rare Earth and the Marvelettes!!!!

[marv2]

Do tell Marv! What did Madame say? I do believe it was revealed thay night why the Supremes had been so micromanaged per Diana's behavioral impulses. Ross' career never fully recovered after this evening. Do we know everything that was in the extra three hours of taping--Syreeta, Ashford and Simpson and what else?

You want to know what she said? She "said" exactly what she said when someone that was hanging with Charlie Murphy at Eddie Murphy's house told her to F-off. She just looked at me, face frozen like it was about to hit the floor and shatter into a million pieces. She backed up like she was doing the moonwalk ,turned and slithered away. Not so much as a cuss word that time. There were people around us at the time. Had there been fewer people she would have said "something" hehehehehehehe.........

[marv2]

From a historical standpont, it's an interesting read.

It's pretty telling that this "shove" was mentioned well into the article. For being "big news", one would think it would be the headline; the first sentence. And I had always though this incident happened during "Someday"?

Wasn't there also an article in US Weekely [[I think?) that supposedly included a picture? THAT would be something to see.

Regardless, it's funny how something that happened 30 years ago is still being talked about.

USA Today carried the story too.

[marv2]

From a historical standpont, it's an interesting read.

It's pretty telling that this "shove" was mentioned well into the article. For being "big news", one would think it would be the headline; the first sentence. And I had always though this incident happened during "Someday"?

Wasn't there also an article in US Weekely [[I think?) that supposedly included a picture? THAT would be something to see.

Regardless, it's funny how something that happened 30 years ago is still being talked about.

They're still talking about the Kennedy Assassination too and that happened 50 years ago! I just read a bleep about Marilyn Monroe's death and that happened like 51 years ago!

[luke]

Two movies made not too long ago about John Lennon's. Not too many stars have had public tantrums and gottten physical with their group mate or else wed still be reading about it historically. I read recently about the Everly Brothers going at it on stage.

[StuBass1]

Meth...I believe that I can answer the question you asked. Keep in mind that at the time of Motown 25 there were no Funk Brothers. They had disbanded as a session group and scattered to various parts. Plus, The Funk Brothers were Detroit studio musicians and few of them with only one or two exceptions like Joe Messina had ever really done much television orchestration which is a different scene than recording in the snakepit. Berry Gordy used the best available west coast musicians for M-25. Most of those musicians had lots of experience in that type of environment. Until The SITSOM project, [[which took years to develop) the musicians known collectively as The Funk Brothers had been largely forgotten.

[Methuselah2]

Thanks, Stu. I appreciate your response. But my interest in The Funk Bros. in regard to the M25 event, as well as that of The Andantes, is as invited guests to it--which, I understand, none of them were. Reportedly, one source says James Jamerson did attend but on his own doing and own purchase of admission. But I don't know that for a fact.

[marv2]

Thanks, Stu. I appreciate your response. But my interest in The Funk Bros. in regard to the M25 event, as well as that of The Andantes, is as invited guests to it--which, I understand, none of them were. Reportedly, one source says James Jamerson did attend but on his own doing and own purchase of admission. But I don't know that for a fact.

Yes it is true that Jamerson had to purchase his own ticket in order to attend and sit in the audience just like most others.

I don't recall the names Jimmy Ruffine, Florence Ballard or Tammi Terrell being mentioned at all.

[marv2]

David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks might have well been non-existent.

[jobeterob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9Y0x1jLkLg

[StuBass1]

I completely agree that The Funk Bothers and all the other Motown musicians...the guys we all know who MADE the Motown sound were largely overlooked in favor of the marquee Motown acts for the Motown 25 show, but thankfully thanks to SITSOM and the various accolades theyve received since them, The Funk Brothers are getting their due [[perhaps a bit too late. Remember that we have a ceremony tentitively scheduled for their long awaited Star on The Hollywood Walk Of Fame March 21, 2013. Sad about the Jamerson snub...but also lets not forget that by that time James was pretty well "out there"...and probably not in much contact with the folks at Motown. History finally gave James and all the others their due.

[Methuselah2]

History finally gave James and all the others their due.

That's a very good point, Stu, a very important one, and it's good to be reminded of it because, as a fan, it does provide some consolation and satisfaction. But not inviting The Funk Bros. and The Andantes to such a marker of an event in Motown history--when The Funk Bros. and The Andantes were so much a part of that history, contributed so much to it, were so intertwined with Motown making history--well, for me as an outsider looking in, I can't help but wonder what went into any decision not to invite them, let alone not ensure that they were there and acknowledged publicly when so many others were. Without knowing the specific considerations that went into it, it feels like a lot more than a missed opportunity that some might view it as. But I certainly don't have the inside track on this one and I know there could have been a slew of other concerns and considerations that Motown had and addressed that I'm not even thinking of that, ultimately, effected their decision. Some might say it's all in the past. But Motown isn't only in the past--it's still very much in the present because of all it was able to create and accomplish. And my interest is because Motown means so much to me.

Thank you for your posts, Stu. I enjoy and appreciate them very much because they're considered and insightful. And clearly heartfelt.

[Motown4Ever518]

It's funny to me that while today the omission of the Funk Bros./ Andantes is a big deal to me today. When the special was aired, my feelings were completely the opposite. And in 1983 I considered myself beyond the average fan, but I was more missing the Marvelettes, Nick and Val, etc.

[StuBass1]

One more thing to keep in mind Meth...maybe two. First, while The Funk Brothers were known to each other as that self made moniker, to the Motown producers they were looked at more as individual musicians at that time, and when the session calls went out, 5 or 6 or 9 or 10 of the 13 guys we now know as The Funk Brothers were called for the date plus many other musicians who were not associated with that core group. They weren't hired as The Funk Brothers, but the guys who got most of the calls were a part of that core group along with others. Samr pretty much for The Andantes. They were not the only background singers at Motown and when the arrangements were done for the M-25 special there were plenty of top notch background vocalists on the scene in Los Angeles who were doing all the contemporary work out here and were actually here to work with the shows producers on the telecast. I doubt they would have considered bringing The Andantes out here for a month or two to hang out and rehearse the performances, plus, like The Funks...The Andantes didn't have much, if any experience doing television work where theres more to it than just showing up and singing their parts into a mike on a given track and it's also likely that like The Funks...the hadn't sung together for many years on such a project...something slick hollywood segment producers were not going to risk when they had access to the finest musicians and singers in Los Angeles at that time. Also...since Suzanne DePasse was the executive producer, she was not there at Motown in those early days and was much more familliar with the L.A folks she had been working with for several years at Mowest. That said...a mention would have been nice.

[Methuselah2]

Stu - You mean the only way to be included in the M25 festivities was to work? In other words: Sing for your supper? You're invited . . . but you're working? Gosh, I hope that wasn't the threshold to cross in order to get in.

[StuBass1]

Stu - You mean the only way to be included in the M25 festivities was to work? In other words: Sing for your supper? You're invited . . . but you're working? Gosh, I hope that wasn't the threshold to cross in order to get in.

Perhaps you misunderstood or I didn't make myself quite clear. The Funks were not a marquee act and there was actually no known or official entity as The Funk Brothers. It was a name a bunch of guys gave to themselves and it's likely that years in the California sun and years of working with west coast musicians [[some of whom also worked in cliques) left The Funk Brothers largely forgotten [[sadly) by the 80's. Only a hand full of us even knew much of the history of these guys. They were scattered around the country working for and touring with individual artists. I knew of the legacy largely due to my brothers close association with Joe Messina and the fact that Bruce hired Earl VanDyke and Robert White to tour with him when he was Paul Ankas musical director and he'd pass along some of the stories to me in the early 70's. As for the background singers for the show...they used the top L.A singers they were used to working with. As Eddie Willis stated in the SITSOM film, he stated that one of the reasons Berry Gordy went to California was that he was looking for a new, more contemporary sound which the L.A. guys provided. Even Jamersons "dead string" style had fallen out of favor with the newer brighter bass sound in 70's pop music which is likely why the philly bass players who emulated Jamersons style were told to change their style or lose the gig as Jimmy Williams stated. As for The Andantes...it was not like popular artists of the 60's singing their material. The Andantes really had no material of their own, thus the M-25 producers used the background singers they were familiar with since nobody would have stayed tuned in to see featured a group of former background singers except the most ardent 60's Motown aficianatos.

[Methuselah2]

Thanks, Stu. With logistics being as they were, it was no doubt impossible to invite everyone, so perhaps they had to draw a line somewhere. Motown had a huge roster of artists and those on the production side of things--who were certainly artists, as well--that inviting everyone just wasn't possible or feasible. But if that's the case, I would have loved an exception to have been made for Funk Bros. that could be located and The Andantes to have made the guest list cut.

[StuBass1]

All that said Meth, I never did get Adam Ant ???

[Methuselah2]

You and me both, Stu. But I did think Ross' coming out and prancing around was actually to try to save the number. Not sure that it did, though. Not sure anything could. Now here's where we needed a shove!

[marybrewster]

All that said Meth, I never did get Adam Ant ???

Here's my theory on Adam Ant:

In 1982, Soft Cell's cover of Tainted Love" set a Guinness World Record at the time for the longest consecutive stay [[43 weeks) on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 chart. If anyone has heard the song, many will remember that this song is "mixed" with "Where Did Our Love Go".

[[Maybe?) in an effort to draw in a "younger" audience, Ant was chosen to sing the song [[he was HUGE at the time) and quite honestly for those of us in the U.S., who was Soft Cell?

In fact, I have seen and heard "Tainted Love/Where Did Our Love Go" credited to Ant, not Soft Cell. Maybe because of Motown 25?

[marybrewster]

By the way, have you all caught Adam's "button popping" on Motown 25?

This pre-dates Janet's "malfunction" by about 2 decades, LOL.