"Nightflight" Tue Dec 18, 9P-12M ET:LOUVAIN is BACK!!!! One More Time!

[midnight johnny]

Hello, my friends in Motown! Last week, on "Nightflight", I had the distinct privilege and honor to have with me liveduring most of the show a lady who IS Motown, as much as some and more than many...Louvain Demps...member of Motown's iconic session vocalists...the ANDANTES. The reality of her presence with me not only resonates deep into my heart, but the surrealness of it is hard to wrap my old brain around.
Louvain was with Motown during the greatest of it's golden years, and with her Andantes partners, Jackie Hicks and Marlene Barrows, sang background with the Spinners and the Originals or by themselves, logging in probably more studio time than any other group or artist, only second to the Funk Brothers.
Last week, Louvain and I covered a lot of Hitsville ground in two and a half hours, but it wasn't until after the show
when I reviewed our time together that I realzed just how much we hadn't discussed...Tammi...the Supremes...
Marvin...Brenda...the Vandellas...Carolyn...Stevie...Soupy Sales...and at this point, I'm not sure how I am going to defy the laws of physics, bending time and space, to give all of them, including Louvain, the time they deserve...but I'm damn well gonna try.
Your questions to Louvain were so important...helping to shed light on what went on at Motown through an Andantes-eye view, and I thank you. Please feel free to post more questions here for tonight's show with Louvain.
Do join Louvain and I tonight for 3 hours of a show that doesn't get more Motown than this. Having Louvain join me for not just one show...but TWO...I couldn't ask for a more wonderful Christmas gift. Thank you, Louvain!!
That's tonight...on "Nightflight"....on WOMR 92.1 FM Provincetown and WFMR 91.3 FM Orleans, and we are streaming live in digital stereo at www.womr.org [[http://www.womr.org/)
Thanks so much!!
John
PS...please...no phone calls tonight...I'll be on the phone with Louvain....but I'll be here too!

5751
Louvain with our friend Harry Weinger

[Methuselah2]

Oh, my. You say last week, Louvain was live during MOST of the show???? Well then, I don't even want to think what she was during the rest of it! But she's back tonight, so all is well. In fact, things couldn't be better. Last week's show was such a lively dialogue between you two--I'm elated that there's even more tonight. Wonderful programming on your part, John. Louvain couldn't be a more terrific guest. This has been truly unique radio--a certified rarity. But then, again, very special people make for very special listening.

[Methuselah2]

QUESTION FOR LOUVAIN:

Could Louvain choose a song and take us through the process of getting the back-up vocal on the recording?

Such as:

-- Who comes up with the back-up vocal and arrangement?
-- Who works with The Andantes on it?
-- What's used for the music at that point?
-- How much rehearsal time?
-- Does someone cue The Andantes when to come in with their vocal?
-- Any allowance for ad-libbing by The Andantes?
-- Which is the preferred procedure by Louvain: Recording along with artists and musicians or recording separately to a track?

And is singing back-up as difficult as it seems since It involves often singing counter to the melody; it involves singing as a group to produce the singular sound; and it seems to involve enormous attention to timing. Thank you Louvain.

[R. Mark Desjardins]

Great questions, Methuselah!

[Methuselah2]

Great questions, Methuselah!

Thank you Mark. Much appreciated.

[Methuselah2]

QUESTION FOR LOUVAIN:

I think I'll just call this one TOO HARD TO FIGURE, TOO STRANGE TO KNOW WHAT'S GOIN' ON.

In other words, what's the deal with THE DARNELLS? I cannot figure this one out. HDH in full Phil Spector/Crystals/Ronettes mode with the catchy TOO HURT TO CRY, TOO MUCH IN LOVE TO SAY GOODBYE. By, uh, oh right, THE DARNELLS. Any info on what was behind this idea, this ploy, this marketing strategy? It's quite a mystery.

THE DARNELLS. The world's most mysterious singing group; the group that dared to pose the unanswerable question by their mere existence: WHY? Forget the damn Mystery of the Sphinx! I'd love to know about those darn DARNELLS!

Or, in other words, why was it TOO IMPOSSIBLE TO UTTER, TOO HARD TO MENTION GLADYS AND THE ANDANTES?

[sophisticated_soul]

Hey John, very much looking forward to Part II of your wonderful interview with the amazing Louvain. I thought it was so incredibly kind of her to give so much of her time and share so many of her memories with you and your audience. The interview was informative, thought provoking and fun. And when she agreed to come back for part II - well that was just icing on the cake. Actually it's a whole other cake! With it's own icing! Yummy! Louvain is quite a lady. See you and the gang on the Radiola!:cool:

[Glenpwood]

Hey John, hope you have a wonderful show with Louvain. I hate to miss it but i'm over in London for vacation. Ive sent a letter to Santa at the North Pole in hopes he puts podcasts of this show on the WOMR website. See everyone next week!

[midnight johnny]

Hey John, very much looking forward to Part II of your wonderful interview with the amazing Louvain. I thought it was so incredibly kind of her to give so much of her time and share so many of her memories with you and your audience. The interview was informative, thought provoking and fun. And when she agreed to come back for part II - well that was just icing on the cake. Actually it's a whole other cake! With it's own icing! Yummy! Louvain is quite a lady. See you and the gang on the Radiola!:cool:

Yes, Joseph....TWo cakes!!!! Sounds GOOOOOOOOOD! See you latah on that ol' Radiola!

[midnight johnny]

Hey John, hope you have a wonderful show with Louvain. I hate to miss it but i'm over in London for vacation. Ive sent a letter to Santa at the North Pole in hopes he puts podcasts of this show on the WOMR website. See everyone next week!

Glen...if you gotta miss the show...London is the best reason I can think of. Have a great time....we'll miss you!

[Methuselah2]

QUESTION FOR LOUVAIN:

Any memories regarding the recording sessions for FOREVER CAME TODAY? Reportedly one of HDH's personal favorites, perhaps thought to be the culmination of their partnership up to that point, this great piece of music was way ahead of its time and seemed to have caught the public unaware. It's one of The Andantes' innumerable performances in your immense catalogue of performances that whenever I sing or hum the tune to myself, I just have to do The Andantes' part, too. That heavenly, celestial choir of you, Jackie, and Marlene is just too sensational, too much a part of what makes this recording great, not to.

[jobeterob]

The Supremes 50th Anniversary says Mary and Flo recorded the background for Stop in the Name of Love and the next day the Andantes re-did it and got the released version.

Did she know this was being done ~ the 2 versions?

Could they always tell the difference between their own voices and those of the Supremes or Vandellas or Marvelettes?

Did the group members know when the songs were released that they were not on the songs? Could they easily tell the difference?

[lovechild]

Hi Johnny Looking forward to hearing more great stories from Louvain :) Hi Louvain!

[midnight johnny]

Hi Johnny Looking forward to hearing more great stories from Louvain :) Hi Louvain!

Hey Tony!!!!!! Welcome! ...in the studio....

[MotownSteve]

Hi John,
Looking forward to the show. Should I say 'hearing forward'?

[sophisticated_soul]

So Louvain is a recovering Andante?:confused::)

[midnight johnny]

Hi John,
Looking forward to the show. Should I say 'hearing forward'?

Welcome Steve!!!! Hello....NEW JERSEY!!!!

[midnight johnny]

So Louvain is a recovering Andante?:confused::)


Heh heh heh....i GET it! [[*smile)

[MotownSteve]

Fantastic version of Uptight. Love it!

[midnight johnny]

Fantastic version of Uptight. Love it!

Thanks Steve!!!

[supremester]

QuestionS For Louvain:

First, I am a HUGE admiarer of The Andantes and thank them for all of their many, many fantastic vocal jobs. They are unsung heroes and deserve so much more than they've been getting.

Questions:
1) How were you paid? Hourly, by the gig? Salary? Were groups like The Supremes billed for Andantes services that you know of?
2)How was Marlene chosen to sub for Flo - how did that affect Andantes studio work? Was everyone cool with it?
3)Did you try to sound like Supremes, Vandellas or Marvelettes? I ask because so often it's tough to tell and what a credit to the versatility and talent of your group!
4)What do you think of the few, but EXTREMELY vocal Supremes fans who cannot handle that you worked on songs like Stop! In The Name Of Love? The controversy has resulted in Motown not giving your group it's props on The I Hear A Symphony Deluxe Set. Thoughts?
5) Did you ever provide Supremes vocals for TV appearances? Which ones?
6) Which Supremes hits did one or more Andante appear?

John I love you and your show. THANK YOU for bringing us the fantastic Louvain Demps.
Thank You, Thank You Thank You!!!!

Gregg from Portland OR

[supremester]

More Questions By The Supremester

1) Could you tell certain songs were gonna hit big - like Love child? Were you surprised at any that didn't hit?
2) Did you ever make up your own arrangements? I love the arrangements on Deke Richards tracks like Bless You, Love Child, I'm Still Waiting, DoobeDoodn Doobe - were you on those?

3) You guys were sensational on No Matter What Sign You Are - do you recall the session? Was Berry there? What was it like?

PS: Hi Joe, Tony & Rob T

[sophisticated_soul]

PS: Hi Joe, Tony & Rob T

Hey Gregg!:cool:

[sophisticated_soul]

Re: Love Child - What a beautiful mistake! I love it! Very cool.:cool:

[supremester]

Deke was on Love Child

Love Child minus Deke Richards equals Im Livin In Shame

[supremester]

Hi - who is this? Oh, must be Joe - Sophisticated Soul - I'm much more of a Marvelettes fan now!


Hey Gregg!:cool:

[sophisticated_soul]

Hi - who is this? Oh, must be Joe - Sophisticated Soul - I'm much more of a Marvelettes fan now!

Yes, it's me, Joe. Tony is Love Child. You have some real good questions for Louvain, Gregg. I am loving this interview!:cool:

[supremester]

Are you on Reflections? What is the lyric in the bg after Diana sings "..........all in vain!"

[skooldem1]

please ask her what she meant when she said that they were all there. Does that mean that Mary and Florence knew they were added because they were all in the studio together?

[skooldem1]

If they were all there, Did Mary and Florence have a problem with additional singers in the background?

[lovechild]

More Questions By The Supremester

1) Could you tell certain songs were gonna hit big - like Love child? Were you surprised at any that didn't hit?
2) Did you ever make up your own arrangements? I love the arrangements on Deke Richards tracks like Bless You, Love Child, I'm Still Waiting, DoobeDoodn Doobe - were you on those?

3) You guys were sensational on No Matter What Sign You Are - do you recall the session? Was Berry there? What was it like?

PS: Hi Joe, Tony & Rob T

Merry Christmas Gregg, great questions :)

[skooldem1]

It always sounded to me like there were more than 2 singers in the background.

[skooldem1]

Did they ever sing with the Supremes in concert?

[skooldem1]

How many times did Marlene sub for Flo?

[supremester]

I'll shut up now, but thank you so much, John, for this show. All Motown fans love and send best wishes to The Andantes.

[bradsupremes]

Just tuned in! I know it's Mary singing on "Reflections," but can't decided if it's Marlene or Louvain singing with her because Florence is definitely not on it.

[bradsupremes]

Question for Louvain:

Were there any songs she can remember that was challenging for the Andantes to sing? And Louvain, I love hearing your beautiful soprano shine through on so many songs especially on Tammi Terrell's "All I Do Is Think About You" and the Four Tops' "You Can't Keep A Good Man Down."

Just got back from a function at the Rock Hall and I would love to see the Andantes get inducted into the Side"men" category for their work!

[supremester]

My roomie just ran upstairs and exclaimed "and I still am not sure what the bg is on Forever Came Today" during the break "As you were standing there you didnt speak a single word, but your eyes, your eyes..etc) they buried them and kind of muffled it so neither one of us can tell exactly what they are singing....

[skooldem1]

Thanks for asking my questions. Appreciated. Tell her she is the best. They were great. They are an important part of the "Motown Sound".

[Methuselah2]

And Louvain, I love hearing your beautiful soprano shine through on so many songs especially on Tammi Terrell's "All I Do Is Think About You" and the Four Tops' "You Can't Keep A Good Man Down.

Brad - Yes indeedy. I co-sign!

[skooldem1]

Can you ask her one last Supreme question: How many times did Marlene sub for Florence in concert?

[bradsupremes]

Also does Louvain know which lady is singing at the beginning of P.J.'s "T.L.C. [[Tender Lovin' Care)" and the Originals' version of "The Exodus Song?" Is it her or Marlene?

[MotownSteve]

Great version of What Becomes of the Broken Hearted. How'd I miss it until now.

[supremester]

John, I really consider The Andantes as charter members of The Supremes - I have for years. Love Child alone earns them that moniker. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[lovechild]

JP I really loved the show last week but this week is making me want more of Louvain :)
I hope we can have her back in the future again... Thank you

[skooldem1]

Please tell her that not many Supreme fans resent the fact that she sang on those records. I love the work they did with the Supremes. She needs to know that we don't resent her. We love her contributions. Their background vocals made those records outstanding, and classics.

[supremester]

Any recollections on My Guy or Mary Wells? Or my fave Martha ever "Bless You" a killer bg track

[sophisticated_soul]

"All I Do" always the perfect choice. Thanks John.:cool:

[Methuselah2]

Please tell her that not many Supreme fans resent the fact that she sang on those records. I love the work they did with the Supremes. She needs to know that we don't resent her. We love her contributions. Their background vocals made those records outstanding, and classics.

Well said Skooldem. Beautifully said, actually. Thank you for saying it.

[skooldem1]

Great Show. Informative. Bravo...

[supremester]

Excellent show, John - and excellent closer - it's a fave of mine, too!

[Methuselah2]

This had been the night of nights.
The show of shows.
Louvain was simply wonderful.
As were you John.
I look forward to Louvain's return to the show.
It was such an exciting night on the air tonight.
On the air and suspended in air.
Thank you so much.

[Methuselah2]

"All I Do" always the perfect choice. Thanks John.:cool:

Joseph, you are so right!

[sophisticated_soul]

Thank you so much Louvain for sharing your precious memories with all of us. It was completely fascinating to listen to your perspective. For the record I am yet another Supremes fan who has no problems with The Andantes contributions to refining The Supremes [[or anyone else's) recorded output. You should be proud of your contributions to the many songs that have gone on to become all-time classics. Thank you again.:)

[sophisticated_soul]

Another one out of the park, John!:) Excellent interview! Riveting even! Thank you mi amigo.:cool: And thanks to one and all for making a good thing better. See you all next time . . . unless something apocalyptic happens this coming Friday. Yikes!:eek: In which case I will say "Thanks, it's been fun!";)

[R. Mark Desjardins]

John;
I just got a new computer that actually lets me hear your program loud and clear, but not wanting to chance losing a moment of your three hours with the lovely [[and lively!) Louvain Demps, I didn't want to open up this page to comment, but now that the show is over, WOW, you really gave us the best Christmas present ever. I can't imagine how you are going to play SANTA to us all on your 4 [[!!!) hour show on the 25th, to quote the Jackson 5, "I'll be there!" Thanks again John!

[jobeterob]

If there are any shows requiring a Podcast, these two are critical. Please post a new thread when they are available.

I missed the entire show tonite..........Christmas and all.

Would anyone care to highlight any of Louvain's comments.

I agree - The Andantes were loved, just like Mary and Cindy, Diana and Flo, Jean and Lynda, Barbara and Barbara, Susaye and Scherrie and all the other groups.

[midnight johnny]

Great version of What Becomes of the Broken Hearted. How'd I miss it until now.

Thanks so much, Steve!

[midnight johnny]

JP I really loved the show last week but this week is making me want more of Louvain :)
I hope we can have her back in the future again... Thank you

Thanks, Tony....I know what you mean. I could talk with Louvain endlessly.

[midnight johnny]

Great Show. Informative. Bravo...


Thanks, skooldem!!!

[midnight johnny]

QuestionS For Louvain:

First, I am a HUGE admiarer of The Andantes and thank them for all of their many, many fantastic vocal jobs. They are unsung heroes and deserve so much more than they've been getting.

Questions:
1) How were you paid? Hourly, by the gig? Salary? Were groups like The Supremes billed for Andantes services that you know of?
2)How was Marlene chosen to sub for Flo - how did that affect Andantes studio work? Was everyone cool with it?
3)Did you try to sound like Supremes, Vandellas or Marvelettes? I ask because so often it's tough to tell and what a credit to the versatility and talent of your group!
4)What do you think of the few, but EXTREMELY vocal Supremes fans who cannot handle that you worked on songs like Stop! In The Name Of Love? The controversy has resulted in Motown not giving your group it's props on The I Hear A Symphony Deluxe Set. Thoughts?
5) Did you ever provide Supremes vocals for TV appearances? Which ones?
6) Which Supremes hits did one or more Andante appear?

John I love you and your show. THANK YOU for bringing us the fantastic Louvain Demps.
Thank You, Thank You Thank You!!!!

Gregg from Portland OR

Gregg.....thanks....I appreciate it!

[midnight johnny]

Excellent show, John - and excellent closer - it's a fave of mine, too!

Gregg...thank you again....

[midnight johnny]

This had been the night of nights.
The show of shows.
Louvain was simply wonderful.
As were you John.
I look forward to Louvain's return to the show.
It was such an exciting night on the air tonight.
On the air and suspended in air.
Thank you so much.

Bruce...thank you so much...for the kind words...I appreciate it!

[midnight johnny]

Another one out of the park, John!:) Excellent interview! Riveting even! Thank you mi amigo.:cool: And thanks to one and all for making a good thing better. See you all next time . . . unless something apocalyptic happens this coming Friday. Yikes!:eek: In which case I will say "Thanks, it's been fun!";)

Joseph....much appreciated, my friend!!

[midnight johnny]

John;
I just got a new computer that actually lets me hear your program loud and clear, but not wanting to chance losing a moment of your three hours with the lovely [[and lively!) Louvain Demps, I didn't want to open up this page to comment, but now that the show is over, WOW, you really gave us the best Christmas present ever. I can't imagine how you are going to play SANTA to us all on your 4 [[!!!) hour show on the 25th, to quote the Jackson 5, "I'll be there!" Thanks again John!

Mark...thanks...glad you enjoyed the show....Louvain, who really doesn't know us at all, did give us allsuch a generous and beautiful Christmas gift...a most wonderful lady....
Glad you'll be listening to the 4 hour [[gasp) Christmas show!!!

[midnight johnny]

If there are any shows requiring a Podcast, these two are critical. Please post a new thread when they are available.

I missed the entire show tonite..........Christmas and all.

Would anyone care to highlight any of Louvain's comments.

I agree - The Andantes were loved, just like Mary and Cindy, Diana and Flo, Jean and Lynda, Barbara and Barbara, Susaye and Scherrie and all the other groups.

Rob....sorry you missed the show. They are in the process of being edited for podcast as we speak.
I CAN tell you that Louvain said that the Andantes were NOT on "No Matter What Sign You Are"...
makes you wonder who was.....
[[by the way...who was the SECOND Barbara that you identify?)

[jobeterob]

LOL - it was late; and Betty became Barbara.

But heck, if Lynda can be on the cover of Floy Joy and be a temporary Supreme and if the Andantes are now on virtually all the big hits of the Supremes, then Betty can be Barbara for a while!

The podcasts will be a Christmas present! Cant wait for them.

[midnight johnny]

LOL - it was late; and Betty became Barbara.

But heck, if Lynda can be on the cover of Floy Joy and be a temporary Supreme and if the Andantes are now on virtually all the big hits of the Supremes, then Betty can be Barbara for a while!

The podcasts will be a Christmas present! Cant wait for them.

Rob...
Betty is Barbara.....The Andantes are the Supremes....
has the whole world gone MAD?!?!? [[*smile)

I checked and the first Louvain show is being edited for podcast upload as I post this!
I'll bring in the 2nd show tomorrow to be edited.

[supremester]

Johnny, I think The Blackberries might be on No Matter What Sign You Are. When Louvain mentioned the move to LA, I remember seeing an interview in LA with Miss Ross shortly before it was released and she recalled a song that she just recorded that Berry had just written for her. It probably was all done in LA. I love the song and the bg is so well sung, I erroneously chalked it up to another facet of The Andantes..... they must have totally given up using Mary & Cindy - because it would be less work if it had to be sweetened anyway. And Mary & Cindy probably didn't care anyway - like on Love Child. They got paid, why spend the day in the studio when they could be out running around LA? I'm going to sniff this out.

PS I think the second Barbara was meant to be Betty.
PPSS: I didn't know The Andantes were on Up The Ladder, but it explains a lot as far as the sound goes....... what a killer record that is.




Rob....sorry you missed the show. They are in the process of being edited for podcast as we speak.
I CAN tell you that Louvain said that the Andantes were NOT on "No Matter What Sign You Are"...
makes you wonder who was.....
[[by the way...who was the SECOND Barbara that you identify?)

[skooldem1]

Although with all the post over the years- I suspect I already had read that they performed on earlier hits- it was kind of a surprise that she mentioned that they sang on almost ALL of the hits- early hits included. Even after all these hours of interviews with Louvain- I suspect there is still a lot she hasn't told. She wants to keep it classy, and like she said doesn't want to cause ill feelings and conflict.

Was the version of STOP you played from the #1's CD? She said that they all recorded the background and she clearly heard Flo. I ask was it from that CD because that is the only one I know that had that acapella ending. That wasn't the released version was it?

[skooldem1]

As far as "Up the Ladder" that wipes out the theory that The Supremes became a group again once Diana left.

[midnight johnny]

As far as "Up the Ladder" that wipes out the theory that The Supremes became a group again once Diana left.

skool....I do think that's stretching it a bit. We've known for years that the Andantes were on quite a number of the Jean Terrell vocals recorded just after Jean joined Motown. And the Supremes were a group from 65 on even though the Andantes were on many of "the group's" tracks. I don't think it interfered with the integrityof the group simply because session singers were used. To me, it's all in the mixing and editing...that someone
decided the kind of sound they wanted on a particular recording, and they mixed the track accordingly.
It really had nothing to do with people...it had to do with the Motown Sound.

[supremester]

Another tidbit: The Andantes are on TCB.


If there are any shows requiring a Podcast, these two are critical. Please post a new thread when they are available.

I missed the entire show tonite..........Christmas and all.

Would anyone care to highlight any of Louvain's comments.

I agree - The Andantes were loved, just like Mary and Cindy, Diana and Flo, Jean and Lynda, Barbara and Barbara, Susaye and Scherrie and all the other groups.

[skooldem1]

skool....I do think that's stretching it a bit. We've known for years that the Andantes were on quite a number of the Jean Terrell vocals recorded just after Jean joined Motown. And the Supremes were a group from 65 on even though the Andantes were on many of "the group's" tracks. I don't think it interfered with the integrityof the group simply because session singers were used. To me, it's all in the mixing and editing...that someone
decided the kind of sound they wanted on a particular recording, and they mixed the track accordingly.
It really had nothing to do with people...it had to do with the Motown Sound.


It is hard for some fans of the Supremes in the 70's to admit this. I have seen it. As far as they are concerned, it was only Jean, Cindy and Mary on these recordings and the Andantes were not included like they were when Diana wanted it all for herself. Facts don't matter because they don't fit the narrative.

[supremester]

Very well said. Everything was about making the best product - and, thus, the most money. No thought was given to anything but that. Mary, Flo & Cindy didn't get chances to shine. So what? - get to rehearsal. Diana isn't eating - go learn your dance routine. It was how they did things. I just think of The Andantes as I do The Funk Bros - needed to make the magic.


skool....I do think that's stretching it a bit. We've known for years that the Andantes were on quite a number of the Jean Terrell vocals recorded just after Jean joined Motown. And the Supremes were a group from 65 on even though the Andantes were on many of "the group's" tracks. I don't think it interfered with the integrityof the group simply because session singers were used. To me, it's all in the mixing and editing...that someone
decided the kind of sound they wanted on a particular recording, and they mixed the track accordingly.
It really had nothing to do with people...it had to do with the Motown Sound.

[jobeterob]

Where did it come from that the Andantes are on TCB?

[bradsupremes]

Another tidbit: The Andantes are on TCB.

The Andantes are not on TCB.

[Methuselah2]

Just as long-thought lost music still comes forth from the vaults to see the light of day, so, too, does Motown history continue to be revealed.

Just to add my 2-cents' worth to the discussion:

Very few people seem to know that the Vandellas had been sent to Sweden to undergo a very radical and controversial experiment to be miniaturized in order to fit into the glass jar used for the SUGAR N' SPICE album cover photoshoot. Furthermore, the experiment had actually been attempted once before that but it didn't quite work out: As you can see on the RIDIN' HIGH album cover, the miniaturizing did not take effect on Martha. And Rosalind and Lois had to perform on Martha's shoulder for the next 6 months.

[jobeterob]

Can you guys present what you know about TCB?

I have read that a lot of TCB was recorded in the studio...........or at least that Diana Ross re-did parts in the studio.

What makes you think the Andantes were or weren't on it?

I recall ten years or so ago, Andy Skurow said some line about the Supremes like: "You better be careful of the questions you ask about them because you might not like the answers you get". And that answer was in relation to who sang on those songs.

[Methuselah2]

Jobeterob, I believe a question was submitted to John asking about The Andantes doing any vocalizing for TV performances, and Louvain answered affirmatively. Asked further if it was done for TCB, and again the answer was affirmative. Whether John said "vocals" or "Supremes' vocals," that I cannot recall. That could make a difference as to the questions posed and the answers given. The forthcoming podcasts should provide everything just as the audience heard it--except for the terrific music and superlative remixes that were played. I think you will enjoy the podcasts whole-heartedly. Part 1 was simply wonderful, and Part 2 even more so--although I wouldn't have thought that possible.

[supremester]

Better take that up with louvain - were you involved with the production of TCB? What is your point of reference?




The Andantes are not on TCB.

[bradsupremes]

Better take that up with louvain - were you involved with the production of TCB? What is your point of reference?

No, I was not involved in the production of TCB nor do I mean to be disrespectful to Louvain, who I love dearly, but you have to consider all sources before believing something as fact. First, the show was done out in LA. The Andantes were Detroit based. Could Motown have flown the Andantes out to LA? Very possible. It's also possible that since Motown was still recording so much in Detroit that they could have just brought the tapes back to Detroit and had the Andantes added? That's possible. Second, you have to look at dates. When was TCB recorded and filmed? Dates are an important factor. If the show was being completely recorded in September, 1968 then we should compare the dates with what was being done back in Detroit. If we see that the Andantes are doing background vocal work to studio tracks in Detroit while TCB is being recorded in LA then the probability of the Andantes being in LA doing TCB is very slim. Now, the Andantes could have added vocals at a later date, but if the session logs and master tapes indicate no further recording dates other than what was done in LA in September 1968 then the chances are slim. Third, you have to know what was actually going on during the production of TCB. I had the pleasure to meet and listen to Dennis Edwards speak about his experience working on TCB. As he said everything was recorded live with the orchestra in the TV studio where they filmed the special. Nothing was done in a recording studio. The "Hits of 60's medley" and the Supremes' "I'm The Greatest Star" was filmed without a studio audience, but the music and vocals were recorded in the TV studio live and then played back when they filming so they were all lip-synching to a live track. Would Motown hide the Andantes behind a curtain while they were recording this? Motown has done sneaky things, but I just can't see it happening. Fourth, you have to know the ladies voices. I know Mary's voice and Cindy's voice very well. I also know the Andantes' voices and their sound together very well. People can have their own opinions, but I can assure you that I don't hear the Andantes anywhere on the TCB soundtrack. The only thing we can reference to confirm all of this are the master tapes. As I once told "It's all in the tapes." If we were to listen and isolate the background vocals for the soundtrack and were to find the Andantes then I've been proven wrong. However; if we listen to the tapes and all we hear is Mary & Cindy, then what? I'm not calling Louvain a liar, but I sometimes feel that people get confused about what they were and weren't on after 45 years. Louvain may say the Andantes are on TCB, but what if we were to ask Dennis Edwards or Otis Williams or Cindy Birdsong? They all may say "No, they weren't." Who is wrong and who is right? Do we immediately throw out Louvain's claim? Do we throw out the other's claims? That's why you have to always consider all sources before coming to a conclusion and finding the fact. I wasn't there, but I know, seen, held, touched, and heard things that I think some people wouldn't want to believe. Yes I am young, but that doesn't mean that I'm less educated about the Motown recording process than others. You've got to look at the full scope of things.

[theboyfromxtown]

Just as long-thought lost music still comes forth from the vaults to see the light of day, so, too, does Motown history continue to be revealed.

Just to add my 2-cents' worth to the discussion:

Very few people seem to know that the Vandellas had been sent to Sweden to undergo a very radical and controversial experient to be miniaturized in order to fit into the glass jar used for the SUGAR N' SPICE album cover photoshoot. Furthermore, the experient had actually been attempted once before that but it didn't quite work out: As you can see on the RIDIN' HIGH album cover, the miniaturizing did not take effect on Martha. And Rosalind and Lois had to perform on Martha's shoulder for the next 6 months.

HAHAHAHAHA

Did Stevie Wonder go with them for the Signed Sealed Delivered album so he could fit in a box!

[sophisticated_soul]

HAHAHAHAHA

Did Stevie Wonder go with them for the Signed Sealed Delivered album so he could fit in a box!

Or The Supremes so they could fit in a Christmas ornament!:D

[theboyfromxtown]

They must have got help from Santa Claus for that one. LOLOL

[ejluther]

I checked and the first Louvain show is being edited for podcast upload as I post this!
I'll bring in the 2nd show tomorrow to be edited.
If it's up I can't find it - in fact, there only seems to be one NIGHT FLIGHT podcast episode at WOMR.org ~ is that right? I know at one time there was quite a few...any help would be appreciated and I'm looking forward to the show very much. Happy Holidays, John!

[skooldem1]

From what I recall, Lovaine said that they recorded their vocals and they were sent to California. Without the podcast I can't be certain. In any event, the way I interpreted it was that Mary and Cindy sang over the pre-recorded vocal track of the Andantes. According to Dennis, for this special he said that they- speaking for both groups I suppose, sang live earlier in the day, and then when they taped the special they were singing to the live track recorded earlier in the day- so there weren't any mistakes. So Diana and all the leads were singing to their own live tracks, and Mary and Cindy were basically singing over the Andantes. Listen to Dennis explain.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHvWvmAmzZU

[skooldem1]

Yes it is 45 years later, but Louvain is sharp. She clearly knows what she did or didn't record. I'd go with her version. It is straight from the horses mouth. Not second hand guesses by fans.

[midnight johnny]

If it's up I can't find it - in fact, there only seems to be one NIGHT FLIGHT podcast episode at WOMR.org ~ is that right? I know at one time there was quite a few...any help would be appreciated and I'm looking forward to the show very much. Happy Holidays, John!

Eric....the Louvain Part one isn't up yet....the tech is working on it presently...it may take him a bit of time, just becasue there is so much music to edit out [[sadly). I will post a new thread when the podcast is up. A very Merry Christmas to you too, Eric!! Thanks!

[midnight johnny]

From what I recall, Lovaine said that they recorded their vocals and they were sent to California. Without the podcast I can't be certain. In any event, the way I interpreted it was that Mary and Cindy sang over the pre-recorded vocal track of the Andantes. According to Dennis, for this special he said that they- speaking for both groups I suppose, sang live earlier in the day, and then when they taped the special they were singing to the live track recorded earlier in the day- so there weren't any mistakes. So Diana and all the leads were singing to their own live tracks, and Mary and Cindy were basically singing over the Andantes. Listen to Dennis explain.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHvWvmAmzZU

skool....thanks for that Dennis interview. Great to see him talk about TCB...and it sort of addressed some questions.

[rod_rick]

Yes it is 45 years later, but Louvain is sharp. She clearly knows what she did or didn't record. I'd go with her version. It is straight from the horses mouth. Not second hand guesses by fans.

Okay folks the statement I'm about to make is totally true and I have the tapes to back it up.
I Me Rod recorded ALL backup vocals parts for TCB, Farewell, Live @ The Talk Of The Town, Temptations, Live, Four Tops Live, Martha & The Vandellas Live, Motor Town Revue Vol 1 &2 Diana % Supremes Love Child album, Temptations Anthology, Marvin & Tammi Greatest Hits, The Emotions Live, Earth Wind & Fire Live, Shalamar Greatest hits and quite a few others. I said that to say the Andantes may have recorded everything that Louvan mention don't mean it was ever released. In regards to TCB, that is clearly only Mary & Cindy and if you can't tell the difference your Supreme fan club card is revoked :)

[skooldem1]

I just re-listened to Dennis explain how it all went down. I had to refer back to this because it doesn't seem to me that they are lip-syncing on the special. Diana Ross is not good at lip-syncing, so you would be able to tell if she was. They recorded vocals earlier in the day so in case when they were taping the show if someone messed up, they could then use the pre-recorded vocals. Doesn't seem to me that they had to use them, because clearly they appear to be singing live and both groups were great. So perhaps the Andantes did record vocals, but it doesn't seem that they had to be used afterall.

[bradsupremes]

I just re-listened to Dennis explain how it all went down. I had to refer back to this because it doesn't seem to me that they are lip-syncing on the special. Diana Ross is not good at lip-syncing, so you would be able to tell if she was. They recorded vocals earlier in the day so in case when they were taping the show if someone messed up, they could then use the pre-recorded vocals. Doesn't seem to me that they had to use them, because clearly they appear to be singing live and both groups were great. So perhaps the Andantes did record vocals, but it doesn't seem that they had to be used afterall.

Diana Ross not good at lip-syncing? She is probably one of the few people who made it look natural. They were lip-syncing to the Taste of Honey medley.

As for the Andantes' vocals, if they weren't used then they are not on TCB. It's Mary & Cindy clearly from start to finish.

[jobeterob]

You guys are better than me with respect to those background voices.

I had no idea it was Johnny Bristol on Someday We'll be Together until 1986 or so. I had no idea it was the Andantes on Love Child. And I have no clue who is backing Diana Ross on TCB.

When I realized it was the Andantes on the single version of Stop in the Name of Love, I also realized I would never again know when Mary and Florence or Mary and Cindy sang because I always thought the Andantes on Stop in the Name of Love were Mary and Florence.

I'll stick with it's Florence on Manhattan and You Keep Me Hangin On.

[Methuselah2]

As someone who listened intently--actually, it would have been impossible not to--to the amazing 2-parter NIGHTFLIGHT that spotlighted the work of The Andantes and the words, experience, and history of Louvain Demps, it was inevitable that it would generate discussion as shown here on SDF. I submitted a slew of questions myself during the shows for Louvain, so I can easily understand how everyone is feeling and why we all want to settle a neverending list of issues, concerns, and uncertainties. Images and perceptions long-rooted in our hearts and minds are still up for grabs, it seems. And I don't want those things chipped away at. But the truth is the truth and images and perceptions can be far from it. And John and Louvain, throughout all 6 hours total of the shows, got to it in everyway possible way whenever the truth was there to be known.

Louvain made numerous things clear, and perhaps the clearest thing was that The Andantes were at Motown to do a job. A job that utilized their talents and creativity and skill but, in the final analysis, a job first and foremost. They had a part to play that ultimately became a major contribution to the entire enterprise. But Louvain was very precise about what that was--and what it was was exactly what the producers wanted them to furnish for the recordings. She said that the producers always had a very clear and definite idea of the sound they wanted to capture at the very start of each recording session. And The Andantes did everything they could to do as directed. Once their part of the recording was made, they didn't yet know how it would be used or how it would end up. And their job didn't include being part of those decisions. And they didn't expect it to be. John, as well, made it very clear throughout that whatever ended up on the recordings was at the discretion of the producers or those in decision-making positions. So, it boils down to the simple fact that only the producers can answer certain questions with definitive answers.

The rapport between Louvain and John over the course of the shows lent to a remarkable, indepth, insightful examination of the recording process as it was for The Andantes. It covered so much and uncovered many, many things--the most wonderful of all: Louvain herself. For me, Louvain was the true revelation--her way of speaking, her temperament, her personality, her humor, her candor. It was all just as beautiful as we've known her singing voice to be. This 2-parter NIGHTFLIGHT was not just a show--it was an event. An extremely rare one. I thank Louvain for saying yes to it. And I thank John for making it happen. I anxiously await the podcasts so I can hear it happen again.

[ejluther]

I will post a new thread when the podcast is up. A very Merry Christmas to you too, Eric!! Thanks!

Great - can't wait!

[sophisticated_soul]

As someone who listened intently--actually, it would have been impossible not to--to the amazing 2-parter NIGHTFLIGHT that spotlighted the work of The Andantes and the words, experience, and history of Louvain Demps, it was inevitable that it would generate discussion as shown here on SDF. I submitted a slew of questions myself during the shows for Louvain, so I can easily understand how everyone is feeling and why we all want to settle a neverending list of issues, concerns, and uncertainties. Images and perceptions long-rooted in our hearts and minds are still up for grabs, it seems. And I don't want those things chipped away at. But the truth is the truth and images and perceptions can be far from it. And John and Louvain, throughout all 6 hours total of the shows, got to it in everyway possible way whenever the truth was there to be known.

Louvain made numerous things clear, and perhaps the clearest thing was that The Andantes were at Motown to do a job. A job that utilized their talents and creativity and skill but, in the final analysis, a job first and foremost. They had a part to play that ultimately became a major contribution to the entire enterprise. But Louvain was very precise about what that was--and what it was was exactly what the producers wanted them to furnish for the recordings. She said that the producers always had a very clear and definite idea of the sound they wanted to capture at the very start of each recording session. And The Andantes did everything they could to do as directed. Once their part of the recording was made, they didn't yet know how it would be used or how it would end up. And their job didn't include being part of those decisions. And they didn't expect it to be. John, as well, made it very clear throughout that whatever ended up on the recordings was at the discretion of the producers or those in decision-making positions. So, it boils down to the simple fact that only the producers can answer certain questions with definitive answers.

The rapport between Louvain and John over the course of the shows lent to a remarkable, indepth, insightful examination of the recording process as it was for The Andantes. It covered so much and uncovered many, many things--the most wonderful of all: Louvain herself. For me, Louvain was the true revelation--her way of speaking, her temperament, her personality, her humor, her candor. It was all just as beautiful as we've known her singing voice to be. This 2-parter NIGHTFLIGHT was not just a show--it was an event. An extremely rare one. I thank Louvain for saying yes to it. And I thank John for making it happen. I anxiously await the podcasts so I can hear it happen again.

Excellent post, Bruce! Thank you.:cool:

[midnight johnny]

Excellent post, Bruce! Thank you.:cool:


Bruce...I agree with Joseph....a wonderful post [[and thank you).

Bradsupremes...I don't know if I agree with your insistance about who sang what on which...I think one thing we learned over this past 2 years is that information given to fans changes, and fans can't always depend on their ears
to tell them who sang what on which...no matter how old or young they are. But I DO agree with you that Diana was pretty good with a lipsync...too bad she wasn't as good remembering lyrics.

Rod_Rick...I am fascinated by your involvement in the Motown recordings that you mentioned. I didn't know
you had a history with the company. Can you share when you were with them and what you did. I'd appreciate knowing. Thanks so much!