The Wiz - Cult Classic?

[jobeterob]

Legendary director Sidney Lumet passed away from lymphoma late last week at the age of 86. His remarkable career spanned five decades, from the classic 1957 courtroom drama 12 Angry Men to the critically acclaimed 2007 thriller Before the Devil Knows You’re Dead. His most celebrated work will most likely be his string of New York-based 70s hits Serpico, Dog Day Afternoon and Network, but in the hearts of black audiences a special place is reserved for his much maligned 1978 foray into the world of movie musicals — The Wiz.

Once [[and sometimes still) viewed as a prime example of late-70s excess and credited as the death knell of the once thriving blaxploitation film genre, The Wiz, in recent years, has found new life as a black cult classic. This is due in part to its fabulously eclectic cast of African-American heavyweights. Besides boasting Diana Ross, Lena Horne [[then Lumet’s mother-in-law), Richard Pryor and Nipsey Russell, the film will forever be remembered for giving Michael Jackson his first and last starring role in a major motion picture.

Few outside the film industry know that following The Wiz’s release and during his height as a musician, Jackson strived to get back on the big screen and over the years numerous projects were developed as potential vehicles for the King of Pop and then were shelved as his career floundered and his endless plastic surgeries convinced producers his face would never play on the big screen.

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That leaves us with The Wiz as the one document of Jackson’s movie acting potential. And he is one of the film’s bright lights. To prepare for his role as the Scarecrow, Jackson doggedly studied footage of gazelles, cheetahs and panthers to incorporate their movements into his performance. And according to Lumet, Jackson was such a consummate performer he not only memorized all of his lines, but the entire cast’s as well. Despite negative reviews at the time of its release, Jackson’s sweet and sincere performance as the Scarecrow was widely praised and his interpretation of “Ease on Down the Road” holds up to this day and quite possibly the definitive version.

It was also on this film that arguably the most legendary collaboration in the history of modern pop music was born. This was where Quincy Jones discovered Michael Jackson. Jones has admitted that he had previously dismissed Jackson’s childhood work as amiable bubblegum, but on The Wiz, where Jones served as the music supervisor, he saw the potential in Jackson for a fresh, more adult sound. After working together on this film, Jackson hired Jones to craft his first mature solo album — Off the Wall. The rest is music history.

The film has also endured as one of the few Hollywood productions of any era to embrace an unabashedly black cast in a black musical. The Wiz, while a sensation on Broadway, may never have reached as a wide an audience if it wasn’t for the consistent repeats of The Wiz on cable television. And what was once considered campy has now taken on a more charming quality aided by time and nostalgia.

But for many black cinema fans The Wiz was and remains a big disappointment. While the late Lumet’s skill as a director has never been in question, there has been a perception that he was out of his comfort zone [[gritty dramas) directing a musical and it shows. Others felt the new agey second act lost some of the urban flavor of the stage show.


But on the whole, the most vehement criticism of the film has been for the casting and performance of Diana Ross in the lead role of Dorothy. Despite her Oscar-nominated triumph six years earlier in Lady Sings the Blues, even some of her most ardent fans feel she was woefully miscast in a role that was originally conceived for a much younger woman. Ross was 35 when the film was made but she was playing a 24-year-old.

The esteemed late critic Pauline Kael wrote that fall in The New Yorker, “As far the performers are the concerned, the only problem is the insufferable Dorothy, who’s some sort of superstar neuter, smiling through tears, with her arms to the heavens.” Kael goes on to write, “Judy Garland [who played Dorothy in the original Wizard of Oz] with her fleshy vulnerability, provided a contrast to her companions, but Diana Ross is as much an artifact as they are.”

Lumet was actually not the first director hired for the picture. John Badham [[Saturday Night Fever) departed early when he learned Ross was being cast, also citing her age as a concern. Badham reportedly told the film’s producer Rob Cohen, “She’s a terrific actress and a great dancer, but she’s not this character.”

Cohen later faulted Ross for much of the problems with the script and production. Cohen argued Ross and screenwriter Joel Schumacher were enamored with the popular late-70s Erhard Seminar Training [[better known as ‘est’) fad and insisted on injecting some of the movement’s feel-good mantras into the script [[like the somewhat maudlin “Believe in Yourself” ballad) at the expense of cohesion and character. Ross’ changes backfired and she never starred in another Hollywood film again.

Another one of the most unfortunate casualties of The Wiz’s initial failure was it essentially prematurely ended Motown’s experiment in the film business. In part to jumpstart a film career for Diana Ross but also simply to diversify his media empire, Berry Gordy got into film production in the early 70s. The goal, as Motown film star Billy Dee Williams explained on the Motown25 special in 1983, was not to “make black movies, but to make movies with black stars.” After Lady Sings the Blues became a hit, it was followed by Mahoghany [[starring Williams and Ross) and The Bingo Long Traveling All-Stars & Motor Kings [[starring Williams, Richard Pryor and James Earl Jones). The Wiz was by far the studio’s most ambitious project, costing a then-very high $24 million [[and reportedly going several million more over budget) and shot on location in New York City.

Many in Hollywood believe that following The Wiz the studios were scared off from bankrolling major movie productions with predominately black casts. For the next two decades that appeared to be overwhelmingly the case — with A Soldier’s Story and The Color Purple being worthwhile exceptions to the rule. Perhaps this is why, despite its all-star cast, Dreamgirls was largely deemed as a pricey risk until it debuted to solid numbers and critical acclaim.

Now that time has passed and the sting of failure is long gone, The Wiz has finally begun to be viewed for what is is — an amusing trifle and a time capsule of a unique and colorful era. In this singular film one can see Michael Jackson right as he was beginning the most storied chapter of his career, delight in the comic prowess of Nipsey Russell as the Tin Man and Ted Ross as the Cowardly Lion, and appreciate Lumet’s light touch as director.

Does The Wiz hold a candle to Lumet’s most seminal work — hardly. But it’s still a fascinating part of an incredible career that has sadly come to an end.

[jobeterob]

http://www.ranker.com/list/entertainment-weekly_s-top-50-cult-movies/movie-info?page=2

[thommg]

Cohen later faulted Ross for much of the problems with the script and production. Cohen argued Ross and screenwriter Joel Schumacher were enamored with the popular late-70s Erhard Seminar Training [[better known as ‘est’) fad and insisted on injecting some of the movement’s feel-good mantras into the script [[like the somewhat maudlin “Believe in Yourself” ballad) at the expense of cohesion and character. Ross’ changes backfired and she never starred in another Hollywood film again.

This is not true at all. The song, Believe In Yourself, was used in the original Broadway production of the show. And I disagree that it is maudlin. It is a power ballad that inspires bot the audience and the character that is singing the song. Not maudlin at all.

[Methuselah2]

Gosh, THE WIZ was a tough one to sit through. Ross wanted very much to do it but it backfired. Badly. Was Ross solely at fault? Did she give the performance that Lumet wanted from her? Was someone else given final approval? For me, the film is virtually unwatchable. I can hear Ross screaming "Toto!" even now. I believe Lumet died last year.

[calvin]

I bought this on dvd and watched it together with my wife for the first time last year. My wife walked out and went to bed about halfway through, bored. I watched it to the end.

I don't really get it as a cult classic. A cult classic doesn't have to be good, but it at least holds your interest and/or entertains. I can't say exactly what's missing in this movie, but something is. With the best of the old hollywood musicals, and even for some of the B ones, they somehow manage to get you to suspend disbelief and just go along for the ride. The Wiz doesn't do that for me. I found it very slow, especially in the beginning - the story seems to take forever to get going.

People love to blame Diana Ross for this, but I don't see this movie working even with a younger actress. The problems are much deeper. I never saw the stage musical but I understand that it really worked, so something must have gone wrong in the adaptation to the screen - Lumet's direction for sure, probably the screenplay too.

It does have its moments, and I think Michael Jackson comes out as the best in this, especially in comparison to the others.

[marv2]

What is this thread really about? Sidney Lumet a year and a half ago. The Wiz tanked because it just wasn't that good. Stephanie Mills should have been the lead. The rest is history.........

[jobeterob]

What is this thread really about? Sidney Lumet a year and a half ago. The Wiz tanked because it just wasn't that good. Stephanie Mills should have been the lead. The rest is history.........

The Wiz may have tanked in it's day .............. but it is now Miss Ross's most successful movie! Just like the Wizard of Oz tanked in it's day.

So I suppose this sticks in your craw too? Or somewhere else?

[Bokiluis]

Though "The Wiz" is my least favorite of Diana's film work, it has indeed found its place in cinematic history. It plays in fairly regular rotation on TVONE, Centric, BET and/or VH1. It is my understanding that a lot of young black kids have embraced it almost to the degree other audiences are attracted to "The Wizard of Oz". It has been released on DVD, no less than 3 times. Movie studios don't release a title, especially 3 times without it having established a good sell through. Between licensing and home video sales, "The Wiz" has finally been profitable for Universal. It also shows as a midnight feature in inner city Theatres. It has also been on the "sing-a-long" movie circuit where audiences sing along with the score.
So while it initially was a major dissappointment, "The Wiz" no longer has any reason to be shunned. [[Oh, and the soundtrack has remained in print since release).

[marv2]

The Wiz may have tanked in it's day .............. but it is now Miss Ross's most successful movie! Just like the Wizard of Oz tanked in it's day.

So I suppose this sticks in your craw too? Or somewhere else?

Nah, I went to see this movie over Thanksgiving break in 1978. After great anticipation, I came away with the conclusion.......it sucked! Diana Ross was no where near convincing as a shy, naive teenager/young adult. Her choice as the lead role destroyed the whole concept and the film overall for me at least.

[marv2]

Though "The Wiz" is my least favorite of Diana's film work, it has indeed found its place in cinematic history. It plays in fairly regular rotation on TVONE, Centric, BET and/or VH1. It is my understanding that a lot of young black kids have embraced it almost to the degree other audiences are attracted to "The Wizard of Oz". It has been released on DVD, no less than 3 times. Movie studios don't release a title, especially 3 times without it having established a good sell through. Between licensing and home video sales, "The Wiz" has finally been profitable for Universal. It also shows as a midnight feature in inner city Theatres. It has also been on the "sing-a-long" movie circuit where audiences sing along with the score.
So while it initially was a major dissappointment, "The Wiz" no longer has any reason to be shunned. [[Oh, and the soundtrack has remained in print since release).

Inner City Theaters? What inner city theaters? I mean where are there inner city theater? What cities?

[stephanie]

I have never cared for this movie only when I saw Diana sing HOME at the end, Michael Jackson dancing and singing and Ted Mills and Nipsey. Cant you Feel A Brand New Day was a tour de force for Diana and I thought she did a good job. The problem was the film was too dark and boring. Another generation discovered it and the people who know the 80s Diana Ross seem to be the ones who cherish this film. Mahogany was better than this but again I saw that in another generation. Lady Sings the Blues speaks for itself and the movie with Brandy well...LOL Double Platinum. Diana Ross gave her best performance in the movie about schizophrenia. Marv I cracked up when you said inner city theatres....LOL

The Wiz does well on cable but I dont think its because its a great movie people want to see Diana and Michael and will sit through a bad script and a halfway decent performance of Diana Ross playing a part she should not have pushed for. Her singing and dancing along with her supporting players make this film. The script and the scenery take away from it. Not an easy film to sit through.

[Bokiluis]

Inner City Theaters? What inner city theaters? I mean where are there inner city theater? What cities?
[[there is never a shortage of cynicism here)The Castro in San Francisco for one, The Retro Dome in San Jose, the Kansas City Rep theatre for another. It runs with "Xanadu" and City Cinemas in Manhattan for another. "Xanadu" has similar tongue and chic appeal. There was also an article in EW about modern day cult classics where it was listed. Hope that helps you. [[Cynicheck)

[marv2]

[[there is never a shortage of cynicism here)The Castro in San Francisco for one, The Retro Dome in San Jose, the Kansas City Rep theatre for another. It runs with "Xanadu" and City Cinemas in Manhattan for another. "Xanadu" has similar tongue and chic appeal. There was also an article in EW about modern day cult classics where it was listed. Hope that helps you. [[Cynicheck)

They do not show this old ass movie in theaters in New York, cut it out! LOL! In Manhattan? Oh LOL!!!!

[marv2]

I have never cared for this movie only when I saw Diana sing HOME at the end, Michael Jackson dancing and singing and Ted Mills and Nipsey. Cant you Feel A Brand New Day was a tour de force for Diana and I thought she did a good job. The problem was the film was too dark and boring. Another generation discovered it and the people who know the 80s Diana Ross seem to be the ones who cherish this film. Mahogany was better than this but again I saw that in another generation. Lady Sings the Blues speaks for itself and the movie with Brandy well...LOL Double Platinum. Diana Ross gave her best performance in the movie about schizophrenia. Marv I cracked up when you said inner city theatres....LOL

The Wiz does well on cable but I dont think its because its a great movie people want to see Diana and Michael and will sit through a bad script and a halfway decent performance of Diana Ross playing a part she should not have pushed for. Her singing and dancing along with her supporting players make this film. The script and the scenery take away from it. Not an easy film to sit through.

Stephanie, I live in 2012 and I have never seen an "inner city theater" in operation since perhaps the very late 70's! LOL!!!!

[smark21]

The Wiz has been a midnight screening every so often at the Sunshine Theater down in the East village. Movies that play midnights at the Sunshine tend to be cult movies with a campy quality for people to laugh at. And I think it was shown at BAM a couple of years back for a Michael Jackson tribute.

Bokiluis, you should probably use a different term than “inner city” in describing where The Wiz does get a screening. That term is usually a euphemism for the poor African American part of a large city.

AS for The Wiz, I wonder if it could have been better if it had a different director. Sidney Lumet specialized in well written dramas. Musicals were not his forte. Maybe if The Wiz had been directed by someone with a better grounding in the conventions of the musical genre, it might have been better.

[gordy_hunk]

I can't recall this film ever been shown in the cinemas, whereas Lady Sings The Blues and Mahogany were.

I know that the song 'liberation / brand new day' made it to number one in the Dutch charts - and was refreshingly energetic.

When I moved to the UK from the Netherlands in 1982, I still had never seen 'The Wiz' and I'm sure that's the first of Diana's films to be made available on video, then DVD. I did have the other film where she played the woman with mental health problems [[I can't recall the title) . That film was very good but I don't think it received much publicity in the UK or Germany.

I've never seen Lady Sings the Blues on DVD for sale - and there's no point in importing it from Canada as we use a different system for DVD in the UK.

Did I like the Wiz? Not really. I much prefer to watch Mahogany - and that wasn't the best either. Sadly, I think Diana could have become a really great film actress after Lady Sings The Blues if she had been offered the right scripts.

[sophisticated_soul]

For those folks in the San Diego area "The Wiz" will be shown this Wednesday November 7th at 7pm at the Birch North Park Theater. I'll be there.

http://filmoutsandiego.tix.com/ScheduleSubscriptions.asp?OrganizationNumber=1871

[skooldem1]

The Wiz maybe considered a "cult classic" by "mainstream" USA, but for the black community it is just a classic.

[pghmusiclover]

The Wiz maybe considered a "cult classic" by "mainstream" USA, but for the black community it is just a classic.

Really? It is considered a classic in the black community? As a white forum member, I just find it hard to believe this is thought of so highly. I only managed to sit through it once, and really, the high point was Lena Horne's number.

[marv2]

Really? It is considered a classic in the black community? As a white forum member, I just find it hard to believe this is thought of so highly. I only managed to sit through it once, and really, the high point was Lena Horne's number.

That's because it is not true! This movie is not held in great esteem in the African American Community. I was in the theater in the fall of 1978 and like you mentioned, other than that brief scene with Lena Horne, ,most everyone was disappointed with the film overall. There was a lot of controversy prior to it's release when it was announced that diana ross would be playing the lead, Dorothy. Everyone agreed that it was a poor choice because Ross was too old and too experienced to be believable. She talked Berry into it and it was a failure.

[Ngroove]

"Cult Classic", "Classic" - WHO CARES - I watch it like it's a five star movie, probably even more so than Wizard of Oz! Been watching it as many times as I remember whenever it's on television, and when I saw the Thirtieth Anniversary DVD, I bought that fond heartwarmer in a heartbeat!

[skooldem1]

I will be the first the admit that the direction of this film was not good. I also don't like the way it was shot/filmed. That said, with a cast and musical talent like this....

Starring

Diana Ross
Michael Jackson
Nipsey Russell
Ted Ross
Mabel King
Theresa Merritt
Thelma Carpenter
Lena Horne
Richard Pryor

Music by

Charlie Smalls
Nickolas Ashford & Valerie Simpson
Anthony Jackson
Luther Vandross
Quincy Jones


....I get over the was it was filmed. I don't dwell on the negativity surrounding the casting decisions, or the way it was filmed. I enjoy all the absolutely wonderful good things about the film. I marvel at all the exceptional African american talent in this film, and that is what saves it for me. This movie still shows up in theaters from time to time and is ALWAYS on black entertainment television, BET, Centric, and Bounce TV. Matter of fact, when the Bounce network first came on the airwaves, it's first program was...you guessed it, The Wiz. It is a total lie to say that the African American community doesn't hold this film in high regard. It is not for people of other ethnicity's to like or understand. It is what it is. This doesn't mean that every African American likes or has to like it either. Most of the groans you hear about this movie are from the older folks who still complain about the casting of this movie some 35 years later.

[pghmusiclover]

I will be the first the admit that the direction of this film was not good. I also don't like the way it was shot/filmed. That said, with a cast and musical talent like this....

Starring

Diana Ross
Michael Jackson
Nipsey Russell
Ted Ross
Mabel King
Theresa Merritt
Thelma Carpenter
Lena Horne
Richard Pryor

Music by

Charlie Smalls
Nickolas Ashford & Valerie Simpson
Anthony Jackson
Luther Vandross
Quincy Jones


....I get over the was it was filmed. I don't dwell on the negativity surrounding the casting decisions, or the way it was filmed. I enjoy all the absolutely wonderful good things about the film. I marvel at all the exceptional African american talent in this film, and that is what saves it for me. This movie still shows up in theaters from time to time and is ALWAYS on black entertainment television, BET, Centric, and Bounce TV. Matter of fact, when the Bounce network first came on the airwaves, it's first program was...you guessed it, The Wiz. It is a total lie to say that the African American community doesn't hold this film in high regard. It is not for people of other ethnicity's to like or understand. It is what it is. This doesn't mean that every African American likes or has to like it either. Most of the groans you hear about this movie are from the older folks who still complain about the casting of this movie some 35 years later.

The casting doesn't bother me so much as the fact that the magical land of Oz looks so drab and dreary...

[midnightman]

It is a cult classic for a reason or two or three: the songs, having Diana and Michael cast in the role, and it did a whole lot for Michael's career, if not Diana's. Plus it gave people a chance to choose between which version of "Home" they preferred lol and also the fact that so many talented actors took part in this film from Diana to Nipsey to Ted Ross to MJ to Mable to Lena to Richard on down.

[Bokiluis]

The Wiz has been a midnight screening every so often at the Sunshine Theater down in the East village. Movies that play midnights at the Sunshine tend to be cult movies with a campy quality for people to laugh at. And I think it was shown at BAM a couple of years back for a Michael Jackson tribute.

Bokiluis, you should probably use a different term than “inner city” in describing where The Wiz does get a screening. That term is usually a euphemism for the poor African American part of a large city.

AS for The Wiz, I wonder if it could have been better if it had a different director. Sidney Lumet specialized in well written dramas. Musicals were not his forte. Maybe if The Wiz had been directed by someone with a better grounding in the conventions of the musical genre, it might have been better.
Point taken. But let it be known that I lived in Néw York for 20 years and "The Wiz" definitely played[[s) at the Chelsea Cinema on either 21st or 23rd St. as part of their midnight classics.

[Bokiluis]

That's because it is not true! This movie is not held in great esteem in the African American Community. I was in the theater in the fall of 1978 and like you mentioned, other than that brief scene with Lena Horne, ,most everyone was disappointed with the film overall. There was a lot of controversy prior to it's release when it was announced that diana ross would be playing the lead, Dorothy. Everyone agreed that it was a poor choice because Ross was too old and too experienced to be believable. She talked Berry into it and it was a failure.
Didn't know you were authority on the African American Arts. Funny, you'd best tell TVONE because they use "The Wiz" as part of their commercial bumpers. And you might also tell that to Centric as well. [[And I guess the East Village doesn't count as Néw York.
The term "inner city" can also refer to "not the suburbs".

[Bokiluis]

[QUOTE=marv2;129941]That's because it is not true! This movie is not held in great esteem in the African American Community. I was in the theater in the fall of 1978 and like you mentioned, other than that brief scene with Lena Horne, ,most everyone was disappointed with the film overall. There was a lot of controversy prior to it's release when it was announced that diana ross would be playing the lead, Dorothy. Everyone agreed that it was a poor choice because Ross was too old and too experienced to be believable. She talked Berry into it and it was a failure.[/QUOTE

[Bokiluis]

They do not show this old ass movie in theaters in New York, cut it out! LOL! In Manhattan? Oh LOL!!!!
I just figured out why you seem to make caustic remarks if someone dares posts something that favors Diana. How did I miss that one? Now I get it.

[marv2]

Didn't know you were authority on the African American Arts. Funny, you'd best tell TVONE because they use "The Wiz" as part of their commercial bumpers. And you might also tell that to Centric as well. [[And I guess the East Village doesn't count as Néw York.
The term "inner city" can also refer to "not the suburbs".

I am a bit of an authority on African American Arts. Studied it in school and experienced it in life! "The Wiz" was not nearly good enough to be classified as a classic. It was a B Grade movie from the moment it hit theaters around Halloween 1978.

[luke]

Grade B is being generous. Most film books refer to it as a "disaster."

[simplysupreme]

Grade B is being generous. Most film books refer to it as a "disaster."

A "disaster" that I bet YOU can quote with ease!

[sophisticated_soul]

Bump:)_____


For those folks in the San Diego area "The Wiz" will be shown this Wednesday November 7th at 7pm at the Birch North Park Theater. I'll be there.

http://filmoutsandiego.tix.com/ScheduleSubscriptions.asp?OrganizationNumber=1871

[jobeterob]

Well, we have the usual two twiddle dee/twiddle dum doubters, so to them, Entertainment Weekly and the TV Channels will say: "Sweet things, let us tell you about the world and the way things are; you come from a different place and we know you're far far far out; so we will point you toward The Wiz and he'll grant you no Wishes" cuz The Wiz has become a very popular, many times reissued and repeated success.

Even with Miss Penniless Diane "I Dun Throwed You Out of My Show" Ross.

[marv2]

Grade B is being generous. Most film books refer to it as a "disaster."

I was trying to refrain from making any "caustic remarks" because of Diane. In reality, I know that the film was called a bomb, a stinker and a huge waste of money.

[thommg]

I don't think Diana's performance is what made the movie bad. I blame it on the direction which is leaden and unimaginative. Frankly, it is one of Sidney Lumet's worst films. They special effects from The Wizard of Oz in 1939 looked more magical than what was in The Wiz. Some of the shots are just laughable - the babies hanging from the wires, the shots of the ceiling in Brand New Day... Stepping back from Dorothy being a teenager, I think the use of a sheltered and scared adult could have potentially worked, but Diana really needed an actors director to help her with the arc of the character, which she really didn't get.

[jobeterob]

That is what is interesting and fascinating about The Wiz. It can't touch Out of Darkness or Lady Sings the Blues for the performance of Diana Ross. And the story is leaden. But yet the movie runs regularly, is rereleased again and again and makes these lists of Top Cult Classics. It also regularly appears in the Best Selling DVDs on CD Universe.

Probably the reasons for it are:

The music

Diana and Michael together

Michael on screen

A certain warmth and bewilderment contributed to by a question about what this story is all about

An appeal to an African American Audience [[ you know who excepted, but he doesn't really belong anyway).

[arrr&bee]

The wiz is a terrible movie[i can't even watch that thing drunk]and to cast diana over stefanie mills was bad too!!!

[marv2]

The wiz is a terrible movie[i can't even watch that thing drunk]and to cast diana over stefanie mills was bad too!!!


Hey Jai, you got that right! These guys think that just because it is an old movie now that somehow it has gotten better! It stunk when it was released in 1978 and the odor lingers on.........LOL!!

[marv2]

The wiz is a terrible movie[i can't even watch that thing drunk]and to cast diana over stefanie mills was bad too!!!

That was there biggest mistake! Diana Ross had no business being in that movie. That decision caused quite a bit of controversy as I recall. Stephanie Mills should have been the star.

[luke]

Everyone knew she was too old for the role but she put the screws to Berry.

[luke]

Torture would be having to watch Mahogony and the Wiz-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

[marv2]

Torture would be having to watch Mahogony and the Wiz-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Back to back horror? LOL!!!!!

[kenneth]

The Wiz may have tanked in it's day .............. but it is now Miss Ross's most successful movie! Just like the Wizard of Oz tanked in it's day.

It is??? Are you forgetting a little film Diane made called "Lady Sings the Blues"?

And by the way The Wizard of Oz did not tank in its day...a common but untrue myth.

[luke]

Back to back? I couldnt survive it. Lady Sings the Blues and Out of Darkness I could! I wish theyd rerun the latter. Is it on dvd?

[Roberta75]

Torture would be having to watch Mahogony and the Wiz-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Oh please watch them and let us know the extent of your pain.

Roberta

[jobeterob]

Despite the fact that Lady and Mahogany were financial successes in their day and are still making some money these days, I would not be surprised if the Wiz has become Miss Ross's most successful movie financially. Very much like The Wizard of Oz.

[simplysupreme]

Might be hard to do, Roberta, the psychiatrist must first learn how to spell "Mahogany"
Oh LOL hehehe

[jobeterob]

Spelling is another one of his problems, but dwarfed by "Diane". LOL, hehehe

[simplysupreme]

LOL Right on Rob, one of many :rolleyes:

[Kamasu_Jr]

Yaw'll are becoming real smart asses with your responses to "Twiddle Dee" and Tweedle Dum-Dummy. [[LOL). Glad to see they get on others' nerves too. But I usually have them on ignore. I don't need to see whatever they have to say. They have become so predictable.
Rob, that putdown was classic and dead on. Somebody's quick and snarky wit has apparently rubbed off on you. LMAO
But frankly, I'm loyal to the version of The Wiz that starred Stephanie Mills. She usually brought the house down with her performances. The Wiz with Michael Jackson and Diana Ross has become a staple of cable TV. It seems to be on all of the time.

[jobeterob]

Despite the fact the Wiz is now listed as a cult classic and has become a success, I don't think it is such a good movie either !

[nomis]

Andy Warhol went out for a night on New York town with Diana and Ashford and Simpson in 78..his diaries record how the black communtiy Diana mingled with that night praised the film..he tells Pat hackett in the diary that this surprised him as the movie was a commercial and critical disaster,,,now Im not saying Warhol was an expert on african American tastes but the man had his pulse squarely on pop culture..theres few who understood trends more than Warhol..he was not the kind of person easily surprised but he was to the support Diana recieved that night about The Wiz..he also witnessed a backstage fight between her and Gordy when he refused to spend any more cash on The Wiz songs she was performing in her current tour..he pulled the plug on rehearsals and Diana was left crying in her dressing room in front of her guests she tried to explain her lack of rehearsal in the show saying to the audience.."forgive me my fans..",

[SupremeBoy]

I've been listening to the Original 1975 Original Broadway Cast Album as well as the Original 1978 Motion Picture Soundtrack to THE WIZ a lot this past month alone. The musical boasts a wonderful score of songs which are timeless.

That being said, it is unfortunate that the much anticipated-at-the-time film version was a huge disappointment. Diana Ross' casting in the role of "Dorothy" was definitely one factor, but the other big one was that they completely re-did the book of the show. The original show as presented on Broadway was still the story we all grew up on. The "Dorothy" Stephanie Mills portrayed in the original Broadway production was very much still the young, wistful and hopeful little girl from Kansas who gets whisked off by a tornado to the magical land of Oz.

Joel Schumacher's adaptation did away with all that and re-wrote the character of "Dorothy" as a 24 year old spinster schoolteacher living in Harlem who gets whisked off in a snowstorm to an Oz that was just a fanciful re-imaging of New York City. The only real component carried over from the original stage version for the film were the musical numbers, everything else was re-worked and re-imagined and not in a very good way.

There are elements of the film which I have to admit still hold up. Michael Jackson is an endearing Scarecrow, Ted Ross and Mabel King get the opportunity to reprise their stage roles as "Cowardly Lion" and "Evelene", respectively. Nipsey Russell and Lena Horne are also standouts in their roles. I don't really care for Richard Pryor as "The Wiz".

The film is entirely too dark and just too damned long. That entire "Emerald City Sequence" is a waste of time and film stock. I get that on some level because of it's all star cast and the wonderful musical adaptation by Quincy Jones of the score that the film has garnered a cult classic status, but I still cannot sit through the whole thing without thinking how this wonderful little show which won 7 1975 Tony Awards including Best Musical became one of the all time musical failures in Hollywood history.

[jobeterob]

I just watched the movie The Wiz [[Michael Jackson and Diana Ross) with my kids, and thoroughly enjoyed it. What movies did you see as a kid that get you excited to watch again as an adult? [[self.movies)
submitted 21 hours ago by mamajunebug


Actually I'll agree and also say The Wiz. It is such a entertaining energetic movie that some people look past because they altered a classic story into something entirely different.
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goonies always
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I LOVE goonies!!
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[+]Tob22 2 points3 points4 points 19 hours ago [[0 children)
[–]Tob22 2 points3 points4 points 19 hours ago

Hook


My mom actually plays that for her 1st and 2nd grade students. They absolutely love it.
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I love The Wiz. I've watched it a million times and it still doesn't get old

[Motown4Ever518]

A huge disappointment to me when it was originally released. I will admit that I was not expecting Fredrico Fellinis, Satiricon, but it had an incredible promotional push, which got folks into the theaters, and it simply could not meet the hype.

However, any movie that I can watch with my daughter repeatedly over the years, from the time that she was a young child, she is 14 now, is OK with me.

[smark21]

Why is it so important for some Diana Ross fans that The Wiz be popular? Isn’t it more important that they consider the movie good, at least for their particular viewing pleasure?

[jobeterob]

What is most fascinating is that it IS pretty much an unwatchable movie but something about it has a charm ~ for me it's the music that is attracting. That is more interesting than whether I like it; I don't like it much.

[BayouMotownMan]

The Wiz was painful to sit through in a movie theatre in 1978. I was a movie and record critic for a local publication at the time and I got free lps to review and free movie passes. I remember well it was released during the holidays and even though I knew that there was skepticism about Ross playing Dorothy, I ignored it because there was also that same skepticism about her playing Billie Holiday.

I remember thinking the movie would never end. It just lumbered on and on and on. To me Ted Ross and Mabel King were the only viable performances in there. Nipsey Russell and Michael Jackson were passable. I'd even say Michael was impressive in his movie debut but didn't get enough screen time. Richard Pryor was stiff and wooden. Lena Horne's version of Believe In Yourself was rather embarrasing [[Believe in Yourself, WOOP, yea).

Diana gave one of her worst performances. The little wig and plain dress didn't help. She was clearly aging and because of this the character of Dorothy seemed childish in a way that bordered on having mental issues. It simply did not work and should have been halted. Also her performance of Home in the movie had her reaching for notes out of her range, sounding raspy at times with her veins sticking out of her neck. One would never expect that same actress to give such arresting performances in Lady Sings and Out of Darkness.

The movie has a cult following because of Michael Jackson. It's his only big screen role. After the explosion of Thriller in 1983 the movie did far better in tape and DVD sales than it did in its theatrical release...where it lost millions and millions of dollars. It tanked Ross's big screen career. Whatever profits it may have turned after the monumental losses came too late.

I remember after Thriller one of the networks ran The Wiz in prime time. After the commercial break the announcer would say "And now back to The Wiz...starring Michael Jackson."

[jobeterob]

The Wiz - referred to in the article on the new Diana Ross release!

[captainjames]

Actually, when I first saw the WIZ on Broadway I hated it. Sorry,but I said this is crap. The movie I thought was even worse but Miss 1 had me laughing all the way through the song. Today, I have probably seen the movie maybe 7 or 8 times because of kids, nephews and nieces. In reality its really not that bad. Miss 1 is still funny, Evileen is hilarious, I love Diana's cartwheels in Everybody Rejoice and if Michael rolled his eyes one more time like that I would be in stitches. It was entertainment for me.

[jobeterob]

For whatever reason, it is popular whether with kids, seniors, as a cult classic or with Michael Jackson fans. The music is good. I always thought every version of it was airy fairy good feeling fluff but it's a break from Isis, bombings, and Donald Trump

[Bluebrock]

Actually, when I first saw the WIZ on Broadway I hated it. Sorry,but I said this is crap. The movie I thought was even worse but Miss 1 had me laughing all the way through the song. Today, I have probably seen the movie maybe 7 or 8 times because of kids, nephews and nieces. In reality its really not that bad. Miss 1 is still funny, Evileen is hilarious, I love Diana's cartwheels in Everybody Rejoice and if Michael rolled his eyes one more time like that I would be in stitches. It was entertainment for me.

I agree. I have only seen it once and I thought it was terrible. I haven't been brave enough to watch it since. I think I shall check out the soundtrack and see how that holds up before approaching the movie again.....

[REDHOT]

BayouMotownMan,you are on point,i also remember watching the Wiz on TV,and when they said starring Michael Jackson,all i could think,how times have changed lol,from what i heard,back in the day,they wanted Melba Moore to star as Dorothy,and Jimmy Walker as the Scarecrow,it was Diana,who wanted Michael Jackson in the movie.

[thommg]

I guess I am one of the people who thinks a good movie could have been made of The Wiz starring Diana Ross. The problem, for me, was the lack of imagination in the entire movie. There is no sense of fantasy once Dorothy gets to Oz. The filming of individual segments is mundane and often boring. The Emerald City sequence is a prime example. It is far too long and there is no payoff for such a lengthy sequence. The dance segment in Brand New Day relies on the same tracking shots of the ceiling over and over again. The big face of the Wizard that houses Richard Pryor is cumbersome and shows no sense of wonderment at all. Lena Horne hanging in the air and singing a song that focuses on babies that hang in the air is just bad filming. NYC is seen as a dark and dismal place instead of a fantasy wonderland. That, to me, is the problem with the film - bad film making. And, I don't think Lumet helped her in reimagining the character as a twenty-something adult who is lost.

[arr&bee]

The wiz is crap,i'll stick to the[1939]original.

[marv2]

The wiz is crap,i'll stick to the[1939]original.

I agree. I remember we had this great anticipation from all of the press. So great that as a freshman in college during the time, I wait until Thanksgiving break to go see it when I got home. That was Nov. 1978. I remember the theater quiet most of the time. No laughs, no gasps, no singing along LOL! Afterwards we pretty much just looked at each other like "what the heck was that?" and went home. I never try to watch it another time after that.

[marv2]

I guess I am one of the people who thinks a good movie could have been made of The Wiz starring Diana Ross. The problem, for me, was the lack of imagination in the entire movie. There is no sense of fantasy once Dorothy gets to Oz. The filming of individual segments is mundane and often boring. The Emerald City sequence is a prime example. It is far too long and there is no payoff for such a lengthy sequence. The dance segment in Brand New Day relies on the same tracking shots of the ceiling over and over again. The big face of the Wizard that houses Richard Pryor is cumbersome and shows no sense of wonderment at all. Lena Horne hanging in the air and singing a song that focuses on babies that hang in the air is just bad filming. NYC is seen as a dark and dismal place instead of a fantasy wonderland. That, to me, is the problem with the film - bad film making. And, I don't think Lumet helped her in reimagining the character as a twenty-something adult who is lost.

The Emerald City scene was cool, but it was out of place for this movie. It was just a bad film.

[luke]

So considering very mixed feelings about the Wiz at best why on earth is Motown now releasing this music again ? It seems to me people would be much more interested an a go go.

[thommg]

So considering very mixed feelings about the Wiz at best why on earth is Motown now releasing this music again ? It seems to me people would be much more interested an a go go.

This music isn't being released again. It is being released for the first time. While I think the movie is bad, I LOVE the music of this piece. Hearing Diana's solo versions, for me, is well worth my time. I still want A Go Go but I'll take this as well. And for those that are interested, here's the star-packed soundtrack of the LIVE! version:
http://www.broadwayrecords.com/cds/the-wiz-live-cd

[midnightman]

I'll just post Stephanie Mills' version of "Home" from the Apollo in '89:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPvIwq03NIY

[jobeterob]

Massive advertising for the new Wiz!

Songs sound like they did in the movie!

[jobeterob]

So considering very mixed feelings about the Wiz at best why on earth is Motown now releasing this music again ? It seems to me people would be much more interested an a go go.

They will far outsell Wiz music over A Go Go

[REDHOT]

Hey Luke,i agree with you,give me The Supremes A Go Go Expanded Edition.

[marv2]

Hey Luke,i agree with you,give me The Supremes A Go Go Expanded Edition.

Good solid business sense would have them go with a winner like "The Supremes A Go Go" not the Wiz music that was a loser the first time around in 1978.

[marv2]

I'll just post Stephanie Mills' version of "Home" from the Apollo in '89:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPvIwq03NIY


Stephanie should have been in the movie to begin with.

[marv2]

Massive advertising for the new Wiz!

Songs sound like they did in the movie!

Nobody is going to buy that. It will be sure loser.

[vgalindo]

Good solid business sense would have them go with a winner like "The Supremes A Go Go" not the Wiz music that was a loser the first time around in 1978. The Wiz soundtrack was a double Gold Album in 1978. So I wouldn't call that a loser!

[jobeterob]

I wish that A Go Go would outsell The Wiz songs; but it wouldn't even come close. But when you come to Motown fans, we want A Go Go. But the world at large will take The Wiz, both new and old.