Ronettes backgrounds

[floyjoy678]

After reading all the junk regarding the Supremes background vocals it got me to thinking of the Ronettes and how Estelle and Nedra are only on about 20% of their recordings, most of the time it was the Blossoms and Sonny and Cher doing the backgrounds with Ronnie on lead. Anyone know which songs actually have Estelle and Nedra on them? The only ones I remember that they sing on are the ones on the Christmas album and possibly "Be My Baby"; there's a quote from Cher where she says her, Sonny, the Ronettes and others all sang together on one microphone like a choir for the song so I'm assuming that means they're on there. Also if you watch clips of them performing their songs it seems like "Be My Baby" was the only song where they actually knew the backgrounds.

[floyjoy678]

Anyone know how I can move this thread to the main forum? I didn't realize I posted this in the Motown Forum.

[milven]

Only the moderator can move threads. But the topic is Motown related. It shows how Motown wasn't the only one who replaced background singers. In fact, Phil Spector replaced a whole group for a recording session. The industry is full of legends and one legend says that The Crystals were on the wrong coast when Phil Spector wanted them to quickly record He's A Rebel to compete with a version that Vikki Carr recorded. So he got Darlene Love and the Blossoms to record it while the real Crystals were performing in NY. It was released as a Crystals record.

At least the Supremes had the lead singer on all their songs. The Crystals had an entirely different group record as the Crystals

[BigAl]

Spector was not particular about who sang backgrounds on any of the songs he produced. He'd pull whoever happened to be in the studio at the time and that encompassed a huge array of people, mostly women: Darlene Love, Jean King, Fanita James, Edna Wright, Grazia Nitzsche, LaLa Brooks, Barbara Alston, Cher, Bobby Sheen [[okay, not a woman, but a tenor), and the list is almost endless. The backgrounds sounded pretty much the same regardless of whether the song was credited to Ronettes, Crystals, Bob B. Soxx/Blue Jeans, Righteous Brothers, Checkmates Ltd., etc. I imagine on many "Ronettes" sides, Nedra and Estelle are often somewhere in the mix but there's no way you could pick them out. About the only voice I've ever been able to discern on a Spector background is Cher's on "Da Doo Ron Ron." [[On the same song you can also faintly hear Darlene Love's original lead vocal buried underneath LaLa's.) Usually it's more like a choir, blurred by all the layering which formed The Wall. Although this was an extreme example, it was a common practice across the industry and Gordy's using the Andantes was no big deal to anyone except for fans years later. After 1966, as we know, they were used almost all the time as "Supremes," "Marvelettes," and "Vandellas," with the actual Supremes, Marvelettes and Vandellas often nowhere even near the studio. Thus, it has always puzzled me why, for instance, Martha got so distressed about Syreeta's being called in to add a voice to "I Can't Dance to That Music You're Playin'" when, before that, Andantes had been used on her recordings for quite some time in place of Vandellas. I suppose it was because Syreeta's part was miked up.

[antceleb12]

The Ronettes were signed to Colpix before Phillies, and recorded a handful of stuff. On that material is where Nedra and Estelle appear. Check out "Silhouettes," for example.

[motony]

the first Crystals recordings, Theres No Other & Uptown & the Crystals Twist Uptown LP were just the Crystals...Estelle & Nedra were on Be My Baby & most of the others with others including Cher in the mix. They Crystals & The Ronettes were great acts LIVE.As far as I'm concerned they were the only real competetion the Motown girls had both on the charts[['62 -'64) & onstage.

[marybrewster]

Great thread.

It's interesting to see that no one cares "much" that Estelle and Nedra are barely on any of the Ronettes recordings, but if you mention that mary or Flo [[or Cindy) aren't on a Supremes recoring, everyone cries fowl. :)

BigAl: I have wondered about the Martha/Syreeta recording as well; I had thought that Martha was more upset because she wanted the lyrics changed, and Motown [[?) wouldn't oblidge. Doesn't the story go that the lyric Syreeta sang hit "too close to home"?

Also: for those of you on Facebook, have you checked out LaLa's page? She does NOT have a lot of nice things to say about Darlene.

[reese]

The Ronettes were signed to Colpix before Phillies, and recorded a handful of stuff. On that material is where Nedra and Estelle appear. Check out "Silhouettes," for example.

And there were even additional vocalists on some of the Colpix recordings, according to Ronnie's book.

Of course, none of this is unique to Motown, Philles, or any other record company.

[reese]

Great thread.

It's interesting to see that no one cares "much" that Estelle and Nedra are barely on any of the Ronettes recordings, but if you mention that mary or Flo [[or Cindy) aren't on a Supremes recoring, everyone cries fowl. :)

BigAl: I have wondered about the Martha/Syreeta recording as well; I had thought that Martha was more upset because she wanted the lyrics changed, and Motown [[?) wouldn't oblidge. Doesn't the story go that the lyric Syreeta sang hit "too close to home"?

Also: for those of you on Facebook, have you checked out LaLa's page? She does NOT have a lot of nice things to say about Darlene.

Deke Richards, the writer/producer of I CAN'T DANCE...wrote a very detailed thread on his take of what happened during the recording of the song. I'm sure it is in the Archives section somewhere.

[floyjoy678]

Here's a video of the background vocals of "Be My Baby":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UUZkj7xeVI
I'm able to pick out Ronnie, Sonny, Cher and possibly Fanita James. Also there's a very deep bass voice singing in there too, I wonder who that is.

[luke]

As motony said Nedra and Estelle are on most of the recordings-along with others- per Nedra. They never reached the heights of the Supremes so there hasnt been as much discussion.

[Sacramento John]

I have long thought that the "business model" that Berry Gordy & Phil Spector mimicked was that of Louie B Mayer's MGM. The product presented & delivered to the public was all important! The who, how, what, where.. actual details were unimportant, everything could be manipulated to the best advantage for marketing, public consumption and maximum profit. MGM & Motown especially were "dream factories."

[antceleb12]

And there were even additional vocalists on some of the Colpix recordings, according to Ronnie's book.

Of course, none of this is unique to Motown, Philles, or any other record company.

Yeah, after taking another listening I realized that "Silhouettes" had additional voices. But there is a released recording of a rehearsal of "Silhouettes" in which you can hear them speaking, so you know they're on there!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5w2DT3RYbg

[luke]

Ronettes and Supremes really quite different. I dont believe Nedra and Estelle ever got any solos at all and Spector was always going for that wall of sound hence 500 other singers.

[floyjoy678]

Well contrary to what Nedra said, both Ronnie and Phil have gone on record saying most of the recordings feature only one Ronette: Ronnie. One song I know for sure is only Ronnie is "Baby I Love You", Estelle and Nedra went on tour with their cousin while Ronnie stayed in California to record the song with Cher and Darlene Love.

Nedra sang lead on "The Wah-Watusi" but it was credited to the Crystals and Phil kept promising her she would sing lead on a song around '64/'65 but it never happened.

[skooldem1]

It is a sad reality for fans of the background singers. The reality is that it is 90% all about the lead singer- on record anyway.

[floyjoy678]

It is a sad reality for fans of the background singers. The reality is that it is 90% all about the lead singer- on record anyway.

I agree that was definitely the case with the Ronettes for me anyway. On the songs it was all about Ronnie for me but live it was all three of them, they were all sexy ladies who knew how to move especially Nedra she was a real looker back in the day.

[motony]

their GREAT ORIGINAL recording of "I Can Hear Music" is just the Ronettes...their last Philles release, produced by Jeff Barry as Phil went into seculsion from the chart failure of "River Deep". The Ronettes were a GREAT LIVE act & I think they were the prettiest girl group of all time.

[luke]

And I heard Nedra sing lead at the girl groups stamp ceremony--no way should she have gotten solos.

[BigAl]

In Nedra's defense, when The Ronettes toured the UK with The Beatles and Phil would not allow Ronnie to go, Nedra was handed the job of singing leads and their cousin, Elaine, took Nedra's place as backup. Of course, it probably didn't matter who was singing because the audience was hysterical with beatlemania and hardly anyone was listening, even if the singers could be heard above the screams. I'll wager that only a handful of the audience was even aware that it wasn't Ronnie up there. Nedra's solo inspirational album, Full Circle, proved that she could sing adequately when she was younger, but her voice lacked any ready identifiability.

[luke]

Didnt know that--I assumed Elaine sang lead--thanks for info! What was Estelle's voice like?

[floyjoy678]

Estelle's voice was similar to Ronnie's but not as distinctive. I actually used to have a clip saved on my computer of their act during the Beatles final tour. Some guy from the audience tape recorded it so it sounded pretty bad but from what I could make out Nedra sounded fine singing lead and they did "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" with Estelle on lead.

[blueskies]

Estelle went on to another girl group, The Love Chain. I do believe they recorded some material...maybe an LP?

[luke]

The Girl Group stamp ceremony is quite interesting if you can get it on dvd or vhs. The original Crystals, Sarah Dash, Nedra, Martha[[throwing a fit cause band played her song ), ...

[motony]

yea, I have that Girl Group Stamp thing on DVD...didn't like La La Brooks hoochie mama dancin on "Da Doo Ron Ron" & Dee Dee & Barbara were shocked by it too....hope she doesn't do that anymore, LOL....I didn't blame Martha about that situation ...very stupid of that band & "singers", unprofessional to say the least.

[bradsupremes]

I was there for that Girl Group Stamp ceremony. I thought Martha acted very unprofessional running onto the stage yelling and screaming at them to stop. The poor singers didn't mean any harm and were visibly shaken. It made Martha look bad. Yes, it was her song but she could have handled herself far differently than running on stage yelling in the midst of the song. It was like a child throwing a fit.

[skooldem1]

someone has got to upload that to Youtube.

[luke]

U said it Brad. ALso the Shirelles performance was weird. With Beverly jumping up and down while Shirley sang lead! I heard all was not well backstage with them.

[luke]

LaLa seems to have toned down a bit but I kinda like it!! Shes so in shape and attractive. Though she did carry it a bit far.

[floyjoy678]

I found the clip of the Ronettes on the Beatles final tour and the listing goes:

1. Shout [[Nedra lead)
2. Be My Baby [[Nedra lead)
3. Will You Love Me Tomorrow [[Estelle lead)
4. Unknown song [[Nedra lead)
5. Walkin in the Rain [[Estelle lead)
6. What I'd Say [[Nedra lead)

Like I said the sound quality is really bad so the one song I couldn't make out I know it's a song Nedra sings lead on cause Estelle says "I'm gonna hand the mic back over to my cousin Nedra"

[luke]

Do they say anything about Ronnie not being there?

[motony]

luke I doubt that audiance cared... a bunch of screamin white teen age girls for the most part.Thats why Nedra told Ronnie she was't missin anything.The Beatles cared, I'm sure & this could have been a big thing for the group.....Ronnie was the one that had that spark of real passion for show business. On the above Be My Baby bg I hear Nedra & Estelle with Cher, Sonny, Darlene, Fanita & Bobby Sheen. Phil didn't want to pay royalties when they all sued in the 80's thats why its his vested interest to say Estelle & Nedra were not on the records & Ronnie who knows , seems she had a strange family relationship with her sister & Nedra when they didn't jump for joy to be Ronettes again when she left Phil in the 70's.After all it was her involvement with Phil that broke up the group.

[floyjoy678]

luke no they don't mention about Ronnie not being there, the only things I can make out them saying is Nedra saying "We'd like to thank you all for making this next song our biggest hit" then they go into "Be My Baby" then Nedra goes "My cousin Estelle is going to sing this next song".

motony to be fair Nedra played a part in the disbanding of the Ronettes by becoming a reborn again loony. When Ronnie wanted to put the group back together in the early 70s Nedra wasn't very nice to her about it and Estelle was in no shape mentally. I think Phil didn't let Ronnie on the Beatles tour because he knew there was a history between her and John Lennon.

[randy_russi]

All three Ronettes, like the Supremes, went on to record solo. Estelle had a solo single in 1969 on the Laurie label, Nedra did a couple lps, Christian rock style. By the way, the

[randy_russi]

don't know what happened, but...

Beatles tour was in the U.S. not the U.K.

[luke]

The Ronettes won their court case but only for royalties like after 1980 and that ruling may even have gotten stuck on appeal or something.

[luke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UUZkj7xeVI&feature=relmfu ok here we go--just the backrground voices!