RUSS/RALPH...Bass player on Love Hangover & Dont Leave Me This Way???

[StuBass1]

Question on a bass website I occasionally visit...Who played bass on Diana Ross' Love Hangover and Thelma Houstons Don't Leave Me This Way? Confusion arises because some posters claim Henry Davis [[who passed away last year I believe) played both those tracks. Eddie Watkins Jr personally told me that HE played Love Hangover and DLMTW sounds like Eddie. Scott Edwards and Eddie Watkins Jr BOTH claim Shake Your Groove Thing and Gloria Gaynors I Will Survive [[which I always believed to be Eddie) on their discographys, and to further complicate things, my old friend Tony Newton lists DLMTW on HIS discography. I believe that Russ engineered Love Hangover and possibly DLMTW. Not looking for opinions here based on playing style, but someone who was AT either of those sessions and could give a definitive answer. At least Carol Kaye hasn't claimed those tracks...yet.

[ralpht]

Stu,
I spoke with Russ and although he didn't record the tracks, but only mixed them, he is guessing Freddie Washington played bass on both songs.

[StuBass1]

Thanks Ralph...that confuses the situation even more since Freddies name hasn't even come upin this discussion. Eddie told me personally that it was him. I guess I can ask Bruce to check with Ready Fredie since he's in contact with him regularly, althoug Freddie may be on the road with Steely Dan right now.

[ralpht]

Stu,
I think it would be a question of the dates of those sessions. I know Russ brought Freddie into Motown at some date and had also gotten involved in working with Hal Davis. So I think it could make a pretty good case for Freddie playing those dates in question. But then again...who knows?

[StuBass1]

LH was recorded in 75 and released in 76. DLMTW...the Motown version was released in 76. Harold Melvin & The Bluenotes had released the Gamble&Huff tune originally in about 75 a year before Thelma Houstons cover. LTD's Henry Davis has been credited with LH...but as I mentioned...Eddie Watkins Jr claimed to me that he played LH when he was still in Motowns good graces. I believe that Joe Sample & James Gadson played those sessions as well on keyboards and drums respectively. I know that Bruce and Russ worked with those guys at Motown around that time as well. Not quitevsure when Ready Freddie did his first sessions at Motown. Tony Newton has also claimed DLMTW on his bio? Its pretty confusing.

[ralpht]

I know that the Thelma Houston song was recorded outside of Motown. The track was then shopped to Motown. An old Hal Davis trick to stay outside the dictates of an A&R department that was somewhat less than qualified [[gee...did I say that?) If the track is picked up, as this one was, Hal gets paid for his offering. Hal wins. Russ told me there was much disdain for this song though, as if Suzanne and inept crowd wanted it to fail to spite Hal. Maybe to teach him a lesson in his outside production ways. At any rate, Russ went on to tell me, every week the song climbed a little higher in the charts until it topped out at #1. Hal wins big again and he and Russ have more freedom than ever to do as they please.

[StuBass1]

Interesting Ralph...So anyone claiming to have witnessed the session [[at Motown) with Henry Davis on bass would likely be telling tales out of school.

[ralpht]

Hard to say, Stu. Your brother may know more about this. Didn't he do some of the arranging?

[StuBass1]

I'm not sure that Bruce did either one of those projects Ralph...but truth be told...unless it was a project he worked on, he usually comes to me with those types of questions LOL.

[StuBass1]

Still haven't conclusively solved the LH or DLMTW question, bassist Scott Edwards has come on the TalkBass site to dispute Eddie Watkins Jr's claims on Shake Your Groove Thing and I Will Survive claiming that he, Scott Edwards played those tracks and says that James Gadson and Ed Greene will verify his claim. Whew. Scott also claims most of the Tavares and some of the Philly hits of the 70's and 80's [[some of which I assumed were Ronnie Baker), and Donna Sommers hits, some Smokey Robinson stuff and a bunch of other songs. He does post some pictures on his website of bhimself and some of the musicians we know like Sylvester Rivers, Ray Parker Jr, Dean Parks, along with pics of him performing with Stevie Wonder, Boz Scaggs, and some other artists. Whew. A real can of worms. I've heard Scotts name around, but he's claiming credit for an awful lot of hits here.

[scottgedwards]

Hello. Glad to be on this site. A documentary was done on the background and history of the song "I Will Survive". The documentary has the writer and co-producer of "I Will Survive", Dina Fekaris doing the honors. To see excerpts of this video, click on the following link and then click on the video - http://scottedwardsmusic.com/i_will_survive_proof.htm

As far as the question of other songs I played on, you can go to Discogs.com, Allmusic.com and Artistdirect.com and see that yes, I did play on all of this material. There is also an article "Bass Player" magazine did on me at this link http://www.bassplayer.com/article/learn-to-play-%E2%80%9Ctoo-much-too-little-too-late%E2%80%9D-overdue-props-for-scott-edwards/4635

This is not the complete article but an excerpt. I'm glad for this site because I like all other "real" bass players, owe Jamerson "the world". he was the "epitome". Once he saw me in a studio in LA and asked could he have my bass and I almost said yes. So thanks for this site. Later.

Scott Edwards/Bass


Still haven't conclusively solved the LH or DLMTW question, bassist Scott Edwards has come on the TalkBass site to dispute Eddie Watkins Jr's claims on Shake Your Groove Thing and I Will Survive claiming that he, Scott Edwards played those tracks and says that James Gadson and Ed Greene will verify his claim. Whew. Scott also claims most of the Tavares and some of the Philly hits of the 70's and 80's [[some of which I assumed were Ronnie Baker), and Donna Sommers hits, some Smokey Robinson stuff and a bunch of other songs. He does post some pictures on his website of bhimself and some of the musicians we know like Sylvester Rivers, Ray Parker Jr, Dean Parks, along with pics of him performing with Stevie Wonder, Boz Scaggs, and some other artists. Whew. A real can of worms. I've heard Scotts name around, but he's claiming credit for an awful lot of hits here.

[ralpht]

Thanks for coming in Scott.

[scottgedwards]

Regarding Thelma Houston's "Don't Leave me This Way", James Gadson, the drummer on the song, told me the bass player was LTD'S , Henry Davis, Gadson on drums and John Barnes on keyboard. On Diana Ross's "Love Hangover" the personnel is the same except Joe Sample took John Barnes palce on keyboards. Later.
Scott

[StuBass1]

Hey Scott. SoCal over at TalkBass here. Yes...Jamerson and all The Funks carry a great deal of well deserved respect on this site.

Yes folks...I can verify that Scott has provided lots of evidence over on the TB site to justify his claims. Also, although Scotts name was not as familiar to me as some other L.A. players...he is absolutely quite highly respected in the L.A. music community amongst his fellow bassists and many of the esteemed musicians, arrangers, and producers on the scene over the past several decades.

[scottgedwards]

Hey SoCal, You're everywhere. Good seeing you here. Hang in there.
Scott

[dvdmike]

You could ask Clay Drayton, who arranged the rhythm track, and who is also a bass player. He is on Facebook.

[thommg]

Hello. Glad to be on this site. A documentary was done on the background and history of the song "I Will Survive". The documentary has the writer and co-producer of "I Will Survive", Dina Fekaris doing the honors. To see excerpts of this video, click on the following link and then click on the video - http://scottedwardsmusic.com/i_will_survive_proof.htm
Scott Edwards/Bass


Thanks for posting the link to the documentary. I find the stories of creating music just fascinating and loved this one. Nice to see the added bonus of "recreation" of the rhythm section after so many years. Just terrific! Thanks for the music!

[scottgedwards]

Hello Thmmog. Glad to be of assistance in revealing truthful and informative information. Thank you for enjoying the music I played bass on. Later.
Scott Edwards/Bass