The Marvelettes Unsung

[BayouMotownMan]

I am only 10 min into this show and I was surprised and elated to see Wanda Rogers on TV. She doesn't much look or sound like she used to, but my heart is happy that she was well enough to participate in this. So far, great show.

[pj1]

I am only 10 min into this show and I was surprised and elated to see Wanda Rogers on TV. She doesn't much look or sound like she used to, but my heart is happy that she was well enough to participate in this. So far, great show.

So glad that they chose to interview Georgia , Wyanetta & Katherine as well for authenticity.

[franjoy56]

So glad that they chose to interview Georgia , Wyanetta & Katherine as well for authenticity.

Unfortunately the Marvelettes original lead singer due to her passing was not featured, and she is surely missed.

[franjoy56]

I am enoying the show 40 minutes in, but had Gladys been living when this show was taped it would have been so much more, I would have also like to hear what Georgianna had to say as well, Katherine and Juanita gave some great comments, and it was nice to see Wanda featured for the first time in years.

[RossHolloway]

Wow. What a great show! It certainly answered some question about what really happened to the group. I couldn't believe that they got Ann Bogan to give an interview, it was great to see and hear her.

[luke]

And Ann Bogan interviewed. Comprehensive. VG job. Mary Wilson so supportive. Great to see more and hear Wynetta. Gladys one hell of a woman and mother!

[smark21]

Very good overview. Enjoyed seeing raw film footage of the Dutch photo shoot.

[Jimi LaLumia]

powerful stuff..truth be told...

[skooldem1]

I thing overall it was a very good show.

[RossHolloway]

Glad that they mentioned the two recent box sets at the end. Nicely done.

[stephanie]

This is one Unsung that should have been 2 or even three hours. I would love to see the footage that didnt make it. Great to see Wanda I was shocked! She didnt look as bad as I thought she would and she seemed pretty coherent. Oh the footage of them in Holland? I think that is where they were is priceless! I wish that we could have seen more live concert footage but this was a dream to see Wandas sisters and Ann Bogan! I have heard they interview the subjects for at least 2 hours each Im sure there is more to this story but it was great! Come on UNSUNG give us the Marvelettes the directors cut! Love it Love it! Oh and Katherine was forthcoming and wonderful as usual.

[marv2]

All I can say is Wow! This has to be my now favorite of all the Unsung episodes I have watched. I thought they did a great job on the Sylvers, but they did and excellent job on the Marvelettes! They started off a little too heavy I thought. I was surprised that so many participated. What made this show so special is that they included the children of Georgeanna Tillman, Gladys Horton etc. Seeing Joe Billingsea on national television is always something very special. Robert Bateman, Mary Wilson, Eddie Holland,Georgia Dobbins,Janie Bradford, Bowser, and on and on.

I use to go to the fish frys in the Inkster High gymnasium. LOL! I thoroughly enjoyed this one. I only wished Smokey and Bobby Rogers had been included.

[skooldem1]

It was really great to see so many of the ladies. Of course there were many silent voices. I think it gave a good overview of the group in 50 minutes or so.

[RossHolloway]

Well this was the first time that I've ever heard that Wanda had a substance abuse problem, and was missing performances. I think Bobby Rodgers would have added great insight into what happened to Wanda.

[luke]

Marv-dont you think that for some reason the more" ingrained"/company Motown people eg Berry, Smokey...shy away from the Marvelettes?

[marv2]

And Ann Bogan interviewed. Comprehensive. VG job. Mary Wilson so supportive. Great to see more and hear Wynetta. Gladys one hell of a woman and mother!

I was surprised to see Ann Bogan on the program. Had they not put her name up, I would not have recognized her at all.

[daviddesper]

I agree with all of you that this episode was sooooooo much more comprehensive than any others we have seen. I was very impressed with the vast number of people they chose to interview. They could have really cut corners and only featured half the folks they did and half the comments they did and it would still have been great.

I loved Katherine's obvious sense of humor and frankness. She really told it like it happened and didn't pull any punches. I too was glad that Wanda was featured in the present. I really figured that they would have to gloss right over her and use only old clips.

But by far the most satisfying part of the whole show to me was when they exposed that rip-off of all the fake groups. The public needs to know more about that sort of thing so that it can be stopped once and for all. I saw some Fake-a-lettes myself in a show in the mid 80's and they were so bad it was unbelievable. I wish I had the knowledge then that I have now to have exposed them for the frauds they were.

[marv2]

Marv-dont you think that for some reason the more" ingrained"/company Motown people eg Berry, Smokey...shy away from the Marvelettes?

You're being too kind, hehehehehehehe.... If I were to tell you how Gladys Horton characterized it, it could start WWIII here. But as one of their principle writers, I would have thought that Smokey would have at least volunteered a few memories.

[marv2]

Oh I forgot, it was good to see Otis Williams participating in this episode. I like that several of their teachers and school administration were able to share their thoughts. The only thing I would have added would have been some of the old school Detroit DJ's if there are any still around and have them talk about the Marvelettes initial success. I only saw them perform once back when "Don't Mess With Bill" was their latest release.

[Bokiluis]

I don't own any Marvelettes or Martha Reeves and The Vandellas' studio albums, only compilations. Any thoughts why it took The Supremes to start selling albums even though the ladies enjoyed some big hit singles including, of course, a #1 pop single in "Please Mr. Postman"?
[[The Marvelettes only charted with their first "Greatest Hits" at a disappointing #84 on the Pop Album Chart, faring better on the R&B Album chart at #4, "The Pink Album" made a little noise. And Martha Reeves and The Vandellas #50 on their first Greatest Hits, while their studio albums all hovered below the Top 100 Pop Album chart).

Of course, the R&B Album chart meant more back then because it reflected sales from a lot more mom & pop stores than say in the last 10-15 years as a lover of R&B music now tends to shop in the Walmart, Target and Best Buy big box stores, with the disappearance of more & more mom & pop stores.

[caliluv]

I thought this was a good program too. Since I had just been reading about Ann Bogan, I was really glad to see her on the program. I was also glad that it was mentioned when Florence Ballard was a Marvelette for a brief time. I'm still raising my brow about the story behind "Where Did Our Love Go"

[randy_russi]

Bokiluis, to try to answer your question regarding album sales--at the time the Marvelettes hit big, it was a singles
market, meaning 45s. LPs didn't really become a focus until the late 60s.

[RossHolloway]

Just as a side note: both Smokey Robinson and Berry Gordy were interviewed for the Unsung episode on Teena Marie...

[marv2]

Just as a side note: both Smokey Robinson and Berry Gordy were interviewed for the Unsung episode on Teena Marie...

Interestingly, neither participated in the Unsung episode on Florence Ballard whom they both also knew well. I know Berry was not a part of the David Ruffin episode, but can't remember if Smokey participated.

[RossHolloway]

Is anyone else either shocked or sadden by the number of Motown artist that we now know either had a substance abuse problem or battled problems with alcohol? If Wanda had a drug problem during the mid-late 60's and beyond, does it not make one wonder about her then husband Bobby Rogers or the other Miracles? This episode of Unsung alluded to the fact that Wanda was "protected" thru her husband and Smokey Robinson. Was it just an open secret at Motown, that they just kept from the public? I would find it hard to believe that Berry or the other executives at Motown didn't know about these problems.

Marvin Gaye
David Ruffin
Paul Williams
Florence Ballard
Wanda Rogers
Levi Stubbs

[stephanie]

Did anyone notice how Katherine looked into the camera and said "We were supposed to be a family?!! By the way does anyone know if Wanda can walk? I saw a couple of times she was in a wheelchair.

[marv2]

Is anyone else either shocked or sadden by the number of Motown artist that we now know either had a substance abuse problem or battled problems with alcohol? If Wanda had a drug problem during the mid-late 60's and beyond, does it not make one wonder about her then husband Bobby Rogers or the other Miracles? This episode of Unsung alluded to the fact that Wanda was "protected" thru her husband and Smokey Robinson. Was it just an open secret at Motown, that they just kept from the public? I would find it hard to believe that Berry or the other executives at Motown didn't know about these problems.

Marvin Gaye
David Ruffin
Paul Williams
Florence Ballard
Wanda Rogers
Levi Stubbs

Why did you add Levi's name to that list?

[milven]

Why did you add Levi's name to that list?


I have the same question. I never heard anything negative about Levi or any of the original Tops and always admired how they all stayed together until death or illness seperated them.

[theboyfromxtown]

I still have a late 60's newspaper clipping reporting that Levi Stubbs was caught with drugs whilst in London. The report didn't say any more other than that he would be appearing in court.

[theboyfromxtown]

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KzgDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=levi+stubbs+drugs+london&source=bl&ots=lb4mgTVn0k&sig=6RpEa1iH6Xiko5m-esuAEdtebZM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CcQOUJbnL-WX1AXI_oHQCw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=levi%20stubbs%20drugs%20london&f=false

It was reported in Jet.....June 11 1970....there's also some other interesting bits about the Supremes on that link

[carlo]

It was fantastic seeing the original ladies back on TV and getting their props. I was also very surprised to see Wanda and Ann being interviewed. A real treat. It's such a shame that Gladys wasn't around for this. Rest in peace.

[RossHolloway]

Wow thanks for the link. For some reason I had always thought that Levi had been stopped for marijuana while in England...very interesting indeed. And I would assume that's quite a bit of coke for that time period... I wonder if this little incident had any impact on the groups relationship with Motown....

Interesting two bits on the Supremes and the one on the Jackson 5 as well...

[theboyfromxtown]

Is anyone else either shocked or sadden by the number of Motown artist that we now know either had a substance abuse problem or battled problems with alcohol? If Wanda had a drug problem during the mid-late 60's and beyond, does it not make one wonder about her then husband Bobby Rogers or the other Miracles? This episode of Unsung alluded to the fact that Wanda was "protected" thru her husband and Smokey Robinson. Was it just an open secret at Motown, that they just kept from the public? I would find it hard to believe that Berry or the other executives at Motown didn't know about these problems.

Marvin Gaye
David Ruffin
Paul Williams
Florence Ballard
Wanda Rogers
Levi Stubbs

Motown definitely knew something about the Marvelettes that they weren't prepared to let on publicly. When an application was made to them to set up a UK Marvelettes fan club in the late 60's - it was discouraged. If we can get WestGrandBoulevard to give the Word Association thread a break, he will be able to tell you what happened.

[RossHolloway]

Motown definitely knew something about the Marvelettes that they weren't prepared to let on publicly. When an application was made to them to set up a UK Marvelettes fan club in the late 60's - it was discouraged. If we can get WestGrandBoulevard to give the Word Association thread a break, he will be able to tell you what happened.

Wow, that is some bit of news...

[nosey]

Kat, cleared up something for me: the Marvelettes just faded away. Perfect opportunity for someone else to trademark the name as apparently Berry Gordy couldn't have cared less about them as his focus was on the Supremes. I was shocked to see how bad Wanda looked. Sorry but I was both shocked and saddened at the same time. [[Ducking for cover)

[Bokiluis]

Bokiluis, to try to answer your question regarding album sales--at the time the Marvelettes hit big, it was a singles
market, meaning 45s. LPs didn't really become a focus until the late 60s.
Of course, I know that, just like it has returned to a singles market again thanks to downloads on iTunes. Explain The Supremes and The Temptations album sales if that were completely accurate. Once The Beatles hit in 1963, albums became more and more relevant. Sigh. Had you said that The Supremes appealed to a more mainstream audience that might explain the success they had with the "Where Did Our Love Go" album, 4 wks at #2, reportedly selling over 3 million albums in the states alone.
That said, "Unsung" has brought one greatest hits compilation to #10 R&B on Amazon and moving #110-#69 on iTunes R&B album chart. Felicidades ladies!

[RossHolloway]

Kat, cleared up something for me: the Marvelettes just faded away. Perfect opportunity for someone else to trademark the name as apparently Berry Gordy couldn't have cared less about them as his focus was on the Supremes. I was shocked to see how bad Wanda looked. Sorry but I was both shocked and saddened at the same time. [[Ducking for cover)

Well the episode definitely gave some insight into her decline, and I think most fans were just happy to see that she was well enough to participate in the show [[at least I was) and it made me smile when she said that the fans still loved the Marvelettes. I'm glad that all the Marvelettes know that they are greatly appreciated and far from being forgotten.

The one rumor that I was hoping that the show would have addressed was about what happened to Wanda while on tour in Europe in 1965.

[kenneth]

It really was a great show, just about as fair and balanced as I think we could expect. I'm anxious to see other episodes now.

[RossHolloway]

It really was a great show, just about as fair and balanced as I think we could expect. I'm anxious to see other episodes now.

My favorites have been on Teena Marie and Tammi Terrell. The one on Tammi just broke my heart all over again.

[copley]

Is anyone else either shocked or sadden by the number of Motown artist that we now know either had a substance abuse problem or battled problems with alcohol? If Wanda had a drug problem during the mid-late 60's and beyond, does it not make one wonder about her then husband Bobby Rogers or the other Miracles? This episode of Unsung alluded to the fact that Wanda was "protected" thru her husband and Smokey Robinson. Was it just an open secret at Motown, that they just kept from the public? I would find it hard to believe that Berry or the other executives at Motown didn't know about these problems.

Marvin Gaye
David Ruffin
Paul Williams
Florence Ballard
Wanda Rogers
Levi Stubbs

Add

Martha Reeves
Paul Williams
Brenda Holloway - prescription drugs
Michael Jackson - prescription drugs
Otis Williams
Rick James
Teena Marie
etc, etc

[smark21]

For me the highlights of the show were getting to hear the living members of the group speak, especially Wanda and Ann Bogan. I enjoyed seeing the clips of Gladys in performance in the late 80’s doing Too Many Fish with an Island flavor. She was very talented and creative and it’s a damn shame she didn’t get as many opportunities to perform as she deserved.

I’m glad Berry and Smokey weren’t on. The show is only 45 minutes or so not including the commercials. This was a chance for The Marvelettes and their family members to tell their story. Berry and Smokey have received plenty of camera time in their lives. It would be great if this episode were released on DVD with bonus footage showing more of the interviews that were conducted for this episode, especially of Katherine, Ann, Georgia, Wyanetta, and Wanda’s family.

One of the most seering moments from the episode was Katherine’s anger at being asked to participate in the photo shoot of the Return of the Marvelettes album cover. Good for her for turning it down. Her anger really articulated the problem fans have with the presence of the Andantes on Motown girl group records in place of the real members because the official members were denied a chance to show their talent on the recordings. And from Katherine’s reaction, you can tell it still burns her that she was not asked to come to the studio to sing on those songs.

[pj1]

[QUOTE=smark21;117874
One of the most seering moments from the episode was Katherine’s anger at being asked to participate in the photo shoot of the Return of the Marvelettes album cover. Good for her for turning it down. Her anger really articulated the problem fans have with the presence of the Andantes on Motown girl group records in place of the real members because the official members were denied a chance to show their talent on the recordings. And from Katherine’s reaction, you can tell it still burns her that she was not asked to come to the studio to sing on those songs.[/QUOTE]

The [[retread) songs that Smokey recorded with Wanda & the Andantes were intended to be used on Wanda's solo album. Sometime after the songs were completed, Motown decided that most people would not recognize Wanda's name. It was then decided to market the lp as The Return Of The Marvelettes rather than a solo Wanda effort. That would explain the absence of Kat & Ann. Think of Diana's first solo album- it would be quite odd if Mary & Cindy provided backgrounds.
It was insane of Motown execs to want Katherine and Ann to pose for the cover photo. If they wanted to market the album as by the Marvelettes, they should have brought Kat & Ann into the studio to record backgrounds that would either replace or be blended with the Andantes background.

[franjoy56]

The [[retread) songs that Smokey recorded with Wanda & the Andantes were intended to be used on Wanda's solo album. Sometime after the songs were completed, Motown decided that most people would not recognize Wanda's name. It was then decided to market the lp as The Return Of The Marvelettes rather than a solo Wanda effort. That would explain the absence of Kat & Ann. Think of Diana's first solo album- it would be quite odd if Mary & Cindy provided backgrounds.
It was insane of Motown execs to want Katherine and Ann to pose for the cover photo. If they wanted to market the album as by the Marvelettes, they should have brought Kat & Ann into the studio to record backgrounds that would either replace or be blended with the Andantes background.

If they decided that the album was going to be a marvelette album instead of a wanda solo then Kat and Ann should have been overdubbed on at least half of the the tracks, and by the way Mary and Cindy appear on Diana's first album with the A's on the track "These Things will keep me lovin you". I tryly enjoyed the Marvelettes unsung i think it was the best unsung show I ever seen. It was great to see all of the living Marvelettest participate, and also the children of the marvelettes as well, and it was great to see Juanita tell how she felt and of course Katherine was right on. If Glady was alive and participated in this episode they would have had to edit a lot out because she was truly angered by her inability to perform thanks to the gaags put on her by Larry Marshak, and it was made possible by Motown selling the name to Marsahk, I am not going to reveal who sold it but Gladys certainly knows. Rest in peace Gladys the Marvelettes mainstay: No one can ever take away what she gave the Marvelettes..

[marv2]

I still have a late 60's newspaper clipping reporting that Levi Stubbs was caught with drugs whilst in London. The report didn't say any more other than that he would be appearing in court.

That wasn't even his man. Name five music artists that didn't smoke or at least tried some weed in the 60's or 70's. Levi was not a druggie, addict or anything remotely close!

[marv2]

Is anyone else either shocked or sadden by the number of Motown artist that we now know either had a substance abuse problem or battled problems with alcohol? If Wanda had a drug problem during the mid-late 60's and beyond, does it not make one wonder about her then husband Bobby Rogers or the other Miracles? This episode of Unsung alluded to the fact that Wanda was "protected" thru her husband and Smokey Robinson. Was it just an open secret at Motown, that they just kept from the public? I would find it hard to believe that Berry or the other executives at Motown didn't know about these problems.

Marvin Gaye
David Ruffin
Paul Williams
Florence Ballard
Wanda Rogers
Levi Stubbs

Why did you leave off Smokey Robinson, Diana Ross, Rick James, Teena Marie and others off of your list? Why pick out just a select few? Whether Motown knew or not, I have to believe that as long as these artists did their job [[make money for Motown), then it was up to the individual to deal with their personal issues. I am pretty sure Motown did not have an EAP program.

[marv2]

If they decided that the album was going to be a marvelette album instead of a wanda solo then Kat and Ann should have been overdubbed on at least half of the the tracks, and by the way Mary and Cindy appear on Diana's first album with the A's on the track "These Things will keep me lovin you". I tryly enjoyed the Marvelettes unsung i think it was the best unsung show I ever seen. It was great to see all of the living Marvelettest participate, and also the children of the marvelettes as well, and it was great to see Juanita tell how she felt and of course Katherine was right on. If Glady was alive and participated in this episode they would have had to edit a lot out because she was truly angered by her inability to perform thanks to the gaags put on her by Larry Marshak, and it was made possible by Motown selling the name to Marsahk, I am not going to reveal who sold it but Gladys certainly knows. Rest in peace Gladys the Marvelettes mainstay: No one can ever take away what she gave the Marvelettes..

I heard who sold the name too.

[marv2]

The [[retread) songs that Smokey recorded with Wanda & the Andantes were intended to be used on Wanda's solo album. Sometime after the songs were completed, Motown decided that most people would not recognize Wanda's name. It was then decided to market the lp as The Return Of The Marvelettes rather than a solo Wanda effort. That would explain the absence of Kat & Ann. Think of Diana's first solo album- it would be quite odd if Mary & Cindy provided backgrounds.
It was insane of Motown execs to want Katherine and Ann to pose for the cover photo. If they wanted to market the album as by the Marvelettes, they should have brought Kat & Ann into the studio to record backgrounds that would either replace or be blended with the Andantes background.

By not bringing Kat and Ann Bogan in to record the album, they did not have to pay them either!

[marv2]

Add

Martha Reeves
Paul Williams
Brenda Holloway - prescription drugs
Michael Jackson - prescription drugs
Otis Williams
Rick James
Teena Marie
etc, etc

add Diana Ross - drugs and alcohol
Smokey Robinson - Crack
All the Debarges - every illegal drug available to them
Mary- cocaine
Stevie and on and on. Why do this list to begin with?

[lakedistrictlad1]

Is this programme available to watch online for us folks outside of the U.S?

[theboyfromxtown]

http://tvone.tv/unsung-videos?pid=mh2kYmAYeM0caZvnO9u7vh6x8HeuQv0e

Phil - You will love it

[captainjames]

Thanks John, I enjoy'd seeing that but, I still found it a bit sad.

[RossHolloway]

I was more focused on the artists from the 1960's.

[Motown Eddie]

The [[retread) songs that Smokey recorded with Wanda & the Andantes were intended to be used on Wanda's solo album. Sometime after the songs were completed, Motown decided that most people would not recognize Wanda's name. It was then decided to market the lp as The Return Of The Marvelettes rather than a solo Wanda effort. That would explain the absence of Kat & Ann. Think of Diana's first solo album- it would be quite odd if Mary & Cindy provided backgrounds.
It was insane of Motown execs to want Katherine and Ann to pose for the cover photo. If they wanted to market the album as by the Marvelettes, they should have brought Kat & Ann into the studio to record backgrounds that would either replace or be blended with the Andantes background.

One thing about The Return of The Marvelettes LP. While I know that was originally planned as a Wanda Rodgers album, Motown used two songs; "That's How Heartaches Are Made" and "Uptown" from the group's previous album, In Full Bloom. Very strange. Anyway, I loved The Marvelettes UnSung episode. From the interviews with the surviving members of the group, the clips of them performing, to the teachers at the school at Inkster who helped launch them, the show told the story of the Marvelettes with style and grace.

[johnny_raven]

Motown's lawyers told them that a record released by The Marvelettes must have at least one song using The Marvelettes, so each side of The Return LP features 1 song by The Marvelettes, remixed from the In Full Bloom LP. Whether or not this is true, that's what my understanding is.

[captainjames]

I am hoping Kat and Ann recieved some royalties if that is the case but I am guessing no.

[westgrandboulevard]

Unless their contracts had expired, wouldn't anyone signed with Motown as 'a Marvelette' for recording/stage purposes, then be entitled to receive royalties as a matter of course, from any discs released under 'The Marvelettes' name - even if their voices had been replaced by session singers, who had been paid a flat rate for their services - ?

Apart from being released, the discs would, of course, have to actually sell copies before royalties became applicable. I don't think 'Return of The Marvelettes' was a big seller....?

And by that time, a member of The Marvelettes [[depending on their time with the group) entitled to royalties may still have owed Motown quite a sum in recording fees and other expenses going back years, so any royalties would simply reduce the outstanding balance on their account?

[Motown Eddie]

Motown's lawyers told them that a record released by The Marvelettes must have at least one song using The Marvelettes, so each side of The Return LP features 1 song by The Marvelettes, remixed from the In Full Bloom LP. Whether or not this is true, that's what my understanding is.

Well that explains why those two songs from In Full Bloom had to be included on The Return of The Marvelettes.

[RossHolloway]

So how were the Marvelettes paid say post-Gladys? Were they paid on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? And when did say Katherine and Ann actually stop getting paid by Motown when the group essentially stop recording and performing in 68-69? And have the living group members been receiving royalty payments from their record sales?

[reese]

So how were the Marvelettes paid say post-Gladys? Were they paid on a weekly or bi-weekly basis? And when did say Katherine and Ann actually stop getting paid by Motown when the group essentially stop recording and performing in 68-69? And have the living group members been receiving royalty payments from their record sales?

I think the book on the Marvelettes said that Katherine, Juanita, and Georgeanna's estate sued Motown to get their royalties, probably in the 90s sometime. Wanda, Ann, and Gladys were not part of the suit.

Not sure if its accurate, but the tabloid article on Wanda back in the 90s mentioned that she was receiving royalties.

[kenneth]

I think the book on the Marvelettes said that Katherine, Juanita, and Georgeanna's estate sued Motown to get their royalties, probably in the 90s sometime. Wanda, Ann, and Gladys were not part of the suit.

Not sure if its accurate, but the tabloid article on Wanda back in the 90s mentioned that she was receiving royalties.

Generally, recording artists would continue to get royalties on any records they had made, even long after they were no longer part of the group.

I believe that Mary Wells traded away her rights to future royalties in exchange for a large lump sum payment when she terminated her contract with Motown, as part of the settlement. I know that Florence Ballard also sued Motown when she was fired, but I don't know whether she lost her rights to future royalties by way of her shyster lawyer [[who was later disbarred). Hopefully not. If she didn't, her children would still receive royalties for her recordings today.

[RossHolloway]

Well that explains why those two songs from In Full Bloom had to be included on The Return of The Marvelettes.

Well that's an interesting bit of information. Now I wonder if this was also the policy for Martha Reeves and The Vandella's and Diana Ross and The Supreme's albums from the late '60s when the Andantes were used for most sessions...Now I will have to go home and look at all their albums from 1967 onwards to really see if actual group members were on at least one song/side on all their albums..or even the Marvin & Tammi albums...

[reese]

Generally, recording artists would continue to get royalties on any records they had made, even long after they were no longer part of the group.

I believe that Mary Wells traded away her rights to future royalties in exchange for a large lump sum payment when she terminated her contract with Motown, as part of the settlement. I know that Florence Ballard also sued Motown when she was fired, but I don't know whether she lost her rights to future royalties by way of her shyster lawyer [[who was later disbarred). Hopefully not. If she didn't, her children would still receive royalties for her recordings today.

Flo's 1968 settlement included a lump sum payment in which she gave up her right to future royalties, so unfortunately, her children don't receive anything. She sued Motown in 1971, but the judge wouldn't hear the case unless she could return the money that she received in the 1968 settlement, which was already gone.

Not sure if Mary Wells got any money upon her leaving. I thought she just received the right to leave the company. It was my understanding that she gave up any future Motown royalties, and that some of her post-Motown royalties had to be paid to Motown as well.

[kenneth]

Flo's 1968 settlement included a lump sum payment in which she gave up her right to future royalties, so unfortunately, her children don't receive anything. She sued Motown in 1971, but the judge wouldn't hear the case unless she could return the money that she received in the 1968 settlement, which was already gone.

Not sure if Mary Wells got any money upon her leaving. I thought she just received the right to leave the company. It was my understanding that she gave up any future Motown royalties, and that some of her post-Motown royalties had to be paid to Motown as well.

Regarding Flo, what a shame. I'm sorry to hear that.

I think you're right about Mary Wells. I think she got a big cash advance from 20th Century Fox, not a settlement from Motown. Your comment jogged my memory. Thanks.

[BayouMotownMan]

I came away from the show, which was excellently done, feeling quite sad for these women. I interviewed Gladys and spoke with her several times and although many are saying she was bitter, she didn't come across that way to me. It was matter-of-fact and she had accepted it. Gladys usually had only good things to say. She was an orphan, had a disabled child and had a tough life. She would not fly, I remember, and when she got gigs her son drove her.

I think the reason so many prominent Motowners did not participate here is for embarassment. The legacy of the Marvelettes should have been preserved.

[R. Mark Desjardins]

I still have a late 60's newspaper clipping reporting that Levi Stubbs was caught with drugs whilst in London. The report didn't say any more other than that he would be appearing in court.
I remember a DJ in Ottawa, Canada announce a current Four Tops record at the time and state that a concert appearance they were due to perform at in Vancouver was cancelled due to the group not being allowed into Canada because of a drug problem. With Canada, being part of the Commonwealth, it makes sense that an arrest in England would automatically bar them from entering Canada at the time. With your comment John, the pieces all fit together now.

[lakedistrictlad1]

I never thought i'd see such a programme. Great stuff. For a short run it packed a lot in. I still get a buzz listening to their music ALL these years later.
Sad to see how Wanda's life hasn't been all it should have been. But she was smiling at the end of the programme. That counts for a lot.

Thanks for the link John.

[BayouMotownMan]

When Wanda looked straight into the camera and said "People still love the Marvelettes," I smiled from ear to ear

[BayouMotownMan]

Mary Wells, the original Vandellas and the original Marvelettes did sue Motown in the 80s and 90s and received undisclosed out of court settlements. Mary Wells got hers shortly before she died

[pbenjamson@aol.com]

Is anyone else either shocked or sadden by the number of Motown artist that we now know either had a substance abuse problem or battled problems with alcohol? If Wanda had a drug problem during the mid-late 60's and beyond, does it not make one wonder about her then husband Bobby Rogers or the other Miracles? This episode of Unsung alluded to the fact that Wanda was "protected" thru her husband and Smokey Robinson. Was it just an open secret at Motown, that they just kept from the public? I would find it hard to believe that Berry or the other executives at Motown didn't know about these problems.

Marvin Gaye
David Ruffin
Paul Williams
Florence Ballard
Wanda Rogers
Levi Stubbs

Very unfortunately, Mary Wells had an extensive drug problem as well, which is described in my upcoming book, "Mary Wells: The Tumultuous Life of Motown's First Superstar." Her drug problem is one of the aspects of her life that made the last half of her life especially tumultuous. Peter Benjaminson.

[pbenjamson@aol.com]

Flo's 1968 settlement included a lump sum payment in which she gave up her right to future royalties, so unfortunately, her children don't receive anything. She sued Motown in 1971, but the judge wouldn't hear the case unless she could return the money that she received in the 1968 settlement, which was already gone.

Not sure if Mary Wells got any money upon her leaving. I thought she just received the right to leave the company. It was my understanding that she gave up any future Motown royalties, and that some of her post-Motown royalties had to be paid to Motown as well.

You're right about Flo, Reece. Mary also was paid for giving up her royalties. For both of them, it was a big mistake. No one knew how popular Motown records were going to be for the next 50 or more years.

[franjoy56]

I came away from the show, which was excellently done, feeling quite sad for these women. I interviewed Gladys and spoke with her several times and although many are saying she was bitter, she didn't come across that way to me. It was matter-of-fact and she had accepted it. Gladys usually had only good things to say. She was an orphan, had a disabled child and had a tough life. She would not fly, I remember, and when she got gigs her son drove her.

I think the reason so many prominent Motowners did not participate here is for embarassment. The legacy of the Marvelettes should have been preserved.

and the Marvelettes legacy was not preserved. In 1991 Gladys was flying with comments about what happened to the Marvelettes, she sent me a tape and it is very telling the interview she did when she performed in England in 1991 with Bill Rhandle. She spoke about writers credits, and how people at Motown would take writers credits for songs they had nothing to do with and "Playboy" was one of them. As the years went on Gladys sort of made peace with the way things were and accepted it, for instance she had praise for Diana for becoming a superstar, but in the 80's and 90's she was trying to make a Marvelettes rebirth, and things started standing in her way which was not pleasant for her, she did make some very successful tv performances one with two girls the other on her own that i remember. I last saw Gladys in 07 in Long Island on a show the Bobby Vee and Felix Cavaliere of the Rascals. Motown simply did not respect the legacy of the Marvelettes and just watching this episode you don't need Gladys to say a single word, she is now at peace.

[BayouMotownMan]

By not bringing Kat and Ann Bogan in to record the album, they did not have to pay them either!

Yes they did, they were still under contract. It is highly unlikely that the Marvelettes received much in the way of royalties after 1966. Most Motown artists stayed in the red because they were charged for so many things that unless they sold in huge numbers [[Supremes, Tempts, Tops, Marvin) they were always owing Motown money.

[BayouMotownMan]

By not bringing Kat and Ann Bogan in to record the album, they did not have to pay them either!

Yes they did, they were still under contract. It is highly unlikely that the Marvelettes received much in the way of royalties after 1966. Most Motown artists stayed in the red because they were charged for so many things that unless they sold in huge numbers [[Supremes, Tempts, Tops, Marvin) they were always owing Motown money.

[kenneth]

and the Marvelettes legacy was not preserved. In 1991 Gladys was flying with comments about what happened to the Marvelettes, she sent me a tape and it is very telling the interview she did when she performed in England in 1991 with Bill Rhandle. She spoke about writers credits, and how people at Motown would take writers credits for songs they had nothing to do with and "Playboy" was one of them. As the years went on Gladys sort of made peace with the way things were and accepted it, for instance she had praise for Diana for becoming a superstar, but in the 80's and 90's she was trying to make a Marvelettes rebirth, and things started standing in her way which was not pleasant for her, she did make some very successful tv performances one with two girls the other on her own that i remember. I last saw Gladys in 07 in Long Island on a show the Bobby Vee and Felix Cavaliere of the Rascals. Motown simply did not respect the legacy of the Marvelettes and just watching this episode you don't need Gladys to say a single word, she is now at peace.

There's an interview stored here, in which Gladys talks about the infringement on her rights, along with some audio of a concert. I can't tell for sure, but I think it's the same concert as the "Recorded Live on Stage" LP.

I don't really agree with the comparisons she makes to 9/11, but the lady obviously was mistreated by the music business.

http://soul-patrol.com/soul/marvelettes.htm

[R. Mark Desjardins]

5209Talk about perfect timing. The spotlight on The Marvelettes aired on the the radio program I was a cohost on last Sunday, on CITR 101.9 FM in Vancouver, followed by the Unsung television documentary on the group, made for a truly special week for their fans.

The entire 3 hour radio program, entitled "Shake A Tail Feather," hosted by Dj Vee, is now available on podcast. I listened with critical ears this afternoon, and apart from a few minor technical glitches, it is a damn good show, if I must say so myself. For the first hour, we featured some of the standout unreleased tracks from the recent Hip-0 Select release "The Marvelettes Forever More." The next two hours focused on the expanded editions of "More Hits By The Supremes," "Supremes At the Copa," Earl Van Dyke, The Miracles "Renaissance / Do It Baby," and the "Diana Ross" releases.

It's somewhat more difficult to obtain these wonderful CD collections in Canada, and many people never hear about them till way after they have sold out their limited pressing. Hopefully some listeners will be impressed enough to seek out some of this music.

Here's the link to the podcast. http://playlist.citr.ca/podcasting/audio/20120722-150500-to-20120722-180000.mp3

[R. Mark Desjardins]

Note to Peter Benjaminson. Peter, I am the proud owner of your Motown theme books and am anxiously awaiting your upcoming Mary Wells biography. Marc Taylor's book on the Marvelettes is as good as it could possibly be with the limited input of Gladys Horton, and lack of support from Ann Bogan.

I have since learned [[perhaps it was on the site mentioned above about a British interview) that Gladys was putting together her own memoir, which would be in the form of "Letters" to Berry Gordy, Smokey Robinson, etc. , playing on the "Mr. Postman" theme. Now, with the recent Unsung Marvelettes program, Ann Bogan seems more open in speaking of her experiences in the group.

I am wondering, in the light of all this renewed interest in The Marvelettes, and the access to previously unknown facts, if the time would be right for a much deeper examination of this pioneer recording group. Perhaps the surviving members of Gladys' family may have access to her proposed manuscript and would like to see it used to tell her story in her voice. What a powerful book that would potentially make, and I can't think of anyone else more qualified to undertake this than you.

[pbenjamson@aol.com]

Note to Peter Benjaminson. Peter, I am the proud owner of your Motown theme books and am anxiously awaiting your upcoming Mary Wells biography. Marc Taylor's book on the Marvelettes is as good as it could possibly be with the limited input of Gladys Horton, and lack of support from Ann Bogan.

I have since learned [[perhaps it was on the site mentioned above about a British interview) that Gladys was putting together her own memoir, which would be in the form of "Letters" to Berry Gordy, Smokey Robinson, etc. , playing on the "Mr. Postman" theme. Now, with the recent Unsung Marvelettes program, Ann Bogan seems more open in speaking of her experiences in the group.

I am wondering, in the light of all this renewed interest in The Marvelettes, and the access to previously unknown facts, if the time would be right for a much deeper examination of this pioneer recording group. Perhaps the surviving members of Gladys' family may have access to her proposed manuscript and would to see it used to tell her story in her voice. What a powerful book that would potentially make, and I can't think of anyone else more qualified to undertake this than you.

Thanks for the kind words, Mark. I'll definitely look into it. Peter.

[dvus7]

You're being too kind, hehehehehehehe.... If I were to tell you how Gladys Horton characterized it, it could start WWIII here. But as one of their principle writers, I would have thought that Smokey would have at least volunteered a few memories.

I'm pretty sure!!!! that Smokey was the one that was pulling Wanda out the group!!! And I'm pretty sure that Bobby rodgers was happy for IT!!!

[dvus7]

Is anyone else either shocked or sadden by the number of Motown artist that we now know either had a substance abuse problem or battled problems with alcohol? If Wanda had a drug problem during the mid-late 60's and beyond, does it not make one wonder about her then husband Bobby Rogers or the other Miracles? This episode of Unsung alluded to the fact that Wanda was "protected" thru her husband and Smokey Robinson. Was it just an open secret at Motown, that they just kept from the public? I would find it hard to believe that Berry or the other executives at Motown didn't know about these probl

Marvin Gaye
David Ruffin
Paul Williams
Florence Ballard
Wanda Rogers
Levi Stubbs

Thank you!!!! 100% agreement!!

[Kamasu_Jr]

Excellent program in my opinion. Glad to see the group getting its story told on a major cable network. I loved Kat's contributions. She gives it to you straight with candor and no bull. And I loved seeing Ann Bogan and Wanda both interviewed - finally. WANDA RODGERS is the queen of Motown sexy soul and is blessed to have her family's support. The parts about Gladys Horton's career disappointments made me want to punch AND KICK somebody, but it seems to be the fate of many veteran singers. I just shook my head and threw up my hands.

[franjoy56]

If they decided that the album was going to be a marvelette album instead of a wanda solo then Kat and Ann should have been overdubbed on at least half of the the tracks, and by the way Mary and Cindy appear on Diana's first album with the A's on the track "These Things will keep me lovin you". I tryly enjoyed the Marvelettes unsung i think it was the best unsung show I ever seen. It was great to see all of the living Marvelettest participate, and also the children of the marvelettes as well, and it was great to see Juanita tell how she felt and of course Katherine was right on. If Glady was alive and participated in this episode they would have had to edit a lot out because she was truly angered by her inability to perform thanks to the gaags put on her by Larry Marshak, and it was made possible by Motown selling the name to Marsahk, I am not going to reveal who sold it but Gladys certainly knows. Rest in peace Gladys the Marvelettes mainstay: No one can ever take away what she gave the Marvelettes..

I have been informed by a member of the Marvelettes family contrary to my earlier post that the Marvelettes name was not sold to Larry Marshak [[the promoter of unauthentic touring groups) by Motown. It is not known how he gained use of the name. However Gladys Horton was the last official Marvelette to perform on stage beyond the new millenium, all others are not the Marvelettes. Thank you Unsung for bringing the true Marvelettes Story "Out of the Closet" and for lining up The Marvelettes and the supporting staff to tell their story.

[franjoy56]

Thanks for the kind words, Mark. I'll definitely look into it. Peter.

Peter, I think Gladys story being told would be the perfect project for you to undertake next,. I know Gladys would be smiling on you if it cold be become a reality. Her demise should not had ended this soon, she had more work to do.

[marybrewster]

What happened to Gladys' book? She talked about it in the early 90's [[in a Florence Ballard Fan Club Newsletter). Or is this book a Motown Myth like Cindy's "Secrets of a Songbird". LOL.

[Jimi LaLumia]

Gordy lost the rights to the Horton book at the gambling tables in Las Vegas............................................. .[[just kidding....but the story is that he DID give up the rights to the Marvelettes name to cover massive losses at a gambling table in Vegas or elsewhere..)

[marybrewster]

Gordy lost the rights to the Horton book at the gambling tables in Las Vegas............................................. .[[just kidding....but the story is that he DID give up the rights to the Marvelettes name to cover massive losses at a gambling table in Vegas or elsewhere..)

LOL Jim. For all of the re-writing of history that goes on around here, I'm shocked I haven't heard that one before! :)

[Motown4Ever518]

I would be very interested in knowing the numbers for the various episodes of Unsung. The Marvelettes piece was one of the best in the series. All of us who love most things Motown will watch, I wonder if the stories are being viewed by those outside the core audience.

[marybrewster]

I would be very interested in knowing the numbers for the various episodes of Unsung. The Marvelettes piece was one of the best in the series. All of us who love most things Motown will watch, I wonder if the stories are being viewed by those outside the core audience.

Somewhere it was mentioned that over a million people tuned in to watch this episode, and if I understood correctly, it made it the most watched "Unsung" to date.

I see Facebook is all a-fire with the Marvelettes now. There is a new fan club page:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/The-Marvelettes-Fan-Club/175760009215936

and an effort to get them inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/101135096700721/

[Motown4Ever518]

Thank you Mary Brewster for the information, it makes me feel very good that it is one of the most watched Unsung episodes to date. I especially appreciate,showing Wanda Rogers doing as well as anyone who has been through what she has gone through. And on the same topic having read Mr. Taylors excellent book on the group the extremely tasteful way that Ms. Youngs previous issues were presented. to date. perhaps the producers can look into releasing DVD's in which the artists could possibly share in any funds generated.

[R. Mark Desjardins]

5343Reading the large amount of comments on the various threads regarding The Marvelettes on this site, interest in the group is at an all time high. The petition to induct the group into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame gains momentum daily. Facebook links to the Unsung segment, radio program tributes and upcoming interviews are getting a lot of attention. Hopefully Hip-o select will make available the Forever and Forever More Complete Album compilations in a more consumer friendly price range, as the first volume is already sold out. These sets are an absolute must have. It is my hope that the surviving members of this fabulous group gets to feel the love and esteem that they may not have been fully aware of previously.

[franjoy56]

5343Reading the large amount of comments on the various threads regarding The Marvelettes on this site, interest in the group is at an all time high. The petition to induct the group into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame gains momentum daily. Facebook links to the Unsung segment, radio program tributes and upcoming interviews are getting a lot of attention. Hopefully Hip-o select will make available the Forever and Forever More Complete Album compilations in a more consumer friendly price range, as the first volume is already sold out. These sets are an absolute must have. It is my hope that the surviving members of this fabulous group gets to feel the love and esteem that they may not have been fully aware of previously.
All of these accolades are long overdue and its about time.

[Penny]

All of these accolades are long overdue and its about time.

Fraujoy, I couldn't agree more. It is long overdue that the Marvelettes received this honor. They were trailblazers.

Penny:D