Queen Ree Selling Poorly This Time Out

[TheMotownManiac]

I'm shocked at Aretha's terrible ticket sales during this tour. EVERY date is way behind projections and both Detroit and Chicago have discounted tickets heavily on Ticketmaster. Detroit lopped off 50% and it barely made a difference. With 2 weeks to go, Detroit added an additional 30% discount and it helped move some seats. $31.85 for orchestra seats and she still didn't sell out the main floor. Balcony was virtually empty. Now Chicago has, with the help of a huge discount, begun to sell better and is no longer an embarrassment, but still may lose money. Her one-night at Caesars Palace is only half sold and despite not offering the loge or balcony for sale at The Nokia, one night has been cancelled and the other is doing "disappointing" business according to a source at the venue. What's going on? Why isn't everyone going to see Queen Ree?

[smark21]

You must be living a very empty life if you have nothing better to do with your time than monitor ticket sales and prices for Aretha’s concerts. Really, such matters are the business of the artist, her management, the venue, the concert promoters and whatever is selling the tickets.

[ralpht]

I think it is a legit Question, Smark. I wonder why ticket sales are slow? I would hope that she would be burning up the tour.

[Jerry Oz]

The economy.
Other entertainment options.
Lack of recent songs or albums.
Fans aging and [[gulp!) expiring.
Possibility that those who are interested in her concerts have already seen the same shows 5-10 times and don't think it's worth paying to see again.
The illusion that an aging diva who appears to be deteriorating physically reminds fans that they are also getting "up in years".

There's any number of reasons why her shows are experiencing tepid sales. I'm leaning toward the fact that there are too many other options and too little money to do everything in this moribund economy, so missing her shows is the opportunity cost of diminished resources.

[timmyfunk]

The economy.
Other entertainment options.
Lack of recent songs or albums.
Fans aging and [[gulp!) expiring.
Possibility that those who are interested in her concerts have already seen the same shows 5-10 times and don't think it's worth paying to see again.
The illusion that an aging diva who appears to be deteriorating physically reminds fans that they are also getting "up in years".

There's any number of reasons why her shows are experiencing tepid sales. I'm leaning toward the fact that there are too many other options and too little money to do everything in this moribund economy, so missing her shows is the opportunity cost of diminished resources.

Very valid reasons you've listed, Jerry. I saw Aretha back in 1995. Not the most exciting show I've ever witnessed, but at least I can say "I've seen her."

[alanh]

Jerry has made some good points. Many 'older' artistes only appeal to those who remember them or if they have recently had a big hit. It's a pity that Aretha [[presumably) still has her air travel phobia - we'd love to see her in the UK! Having said that, I wonder what a UK concert promoter would say? I know that a number of visiting major acts haven't sold old venue capacity simply because not enough people are interested in seeing them anymore.

[copley]

I think that all of the above reasons are very valid. The recession certainly plays a major part in the lack of all ticket sales these days. People have more important things to do with their well stretched cash. Also artists of Aretha's age very often and quite understandably can't put in a performance as of days gone by so sometimes are best remembered for what they were than what they have become. Just my opinion.

[reese]

Maybe Aretha is hitting the same markets too many times in a short span of time. I know there have been some years when I saw Aretha three or four times. Last week, I bought a ticket for her November concert in NJ. That will make at least three concerts that she's given in the NY/NJ area this year.

[TheMotownManiac]

Well, perhaps my life IS empty, but what kind of person are you that you need to remind me of that fact? Do you wish it to be MORE empty? Do you like making people feel bad? Do you go to blind people at yell "LOOK AT THAT!!!"??? Personally, I'd rather be the person with the empty life than the person who goes around saying such bitchy, mean-spirited things to strangers posing a question to a forum open to such topics. I'm sad for you.

As for your comment on who's business this is, you could say that about everything in this board and we could just delete the whole thing.

I love and care about Aretha and am stunned she has slipped so bad and wondered why - like maybe there was some public gaff that I might have missed. I will be seeing her in Vegas next month.

Please skip my posts from now on as my world is more empty WITH you in it.





You must be living a very empty life if you have nothing better to do with your time than monitor ticket sales and prices for Aretha’s concerts. Really, such matters are the business of the artist, her management, the venue, the concert promoters and whatever is selling the tickets.

[TheMotownManiac]

Me too. I can understand other's slipping for all the very valid reasons others have mentioned, but Aretha IS The Queen and I just assumed everyone would go. I have a few close friends in Detroit & Chicago who state that Aretha can either be great or terrible live and often cancels. They all said the same to me that she has burned her bridges with a lot of fans. I have seen her 3 times and maybe I just love her so that I'm blind to if it's a good show or not. My Detroit friends said they were advertising 31.00 main floor seats on the radio and still it didn't sell. That's shocking to me.


I think it is a legit Question, Smark. I wonder why ticket sales are slow? I would hope that she would be burning up the tour.

[motony]

I think its a very valid subject on a music forum.When an artist of Arethas' standing is having a hard time selling tickets it just shows how bad the economy is.Ofcourse, I've said for years that tickets prices are way to high for all entertainment.I can't beleive that people are still packing these theme parks at $89.00 a person, not counting parking,food ect.

[ralpht]

Motown Maniac,
Okay, Smark had that coming. Let's let this drop now.

[TheMotownManiac]

I think its a very valid subject on a music forum.When an artist of Arethas' standing is having a hard time selling tickets it just shows how bad the economy is.Ofcourse, I've said for years that tickets prices are way to high for all entertainment.I can't beleive that people are still packing these theme parks at $89.00 a person, not counting parking,food ect.

I saw Diana at Caesars Palace last fall and she didn't sell out the first night as there were some empty seats in the back balcony, but the next night was sold out. It was the best I've ever seen her. They were selling her first few rows for 300-500 per seat. We bought 4th row for 225.00 and, it was worth it seeing her up so close. I've always considered Aretha to be as big or bigger than Diana, but I guess that's not the case. I love all the old gals and since Gladys lost her gig in Vegas, i've begun to wonder what is happening to my girls. Probably as someone said, the fan base is dying off and many are unable or unwilling to spend the time, effort and money to see them. I just thought EVERYBODY wanted to hear RESPECT live.

[carlo]

I just thought EVERYBODY wanted to hear RESPECT live.

I saw Aretha about a year ago and it was great to see a living legend in concert, but she seemed a little under the weather and we left feeling a bit disappointed. The show was short, she took a 15 minute break while the band continued to play and came back for no encore. She also didn't sing "Respect". I love her and have the utmost respect for her, but I expected a little more for $80 a ticket.

[copley]

Hi Carlo. Now what did the Temptations sing again? Oh yes 'Superstar, don't forget who put you where you are'. Sadly some do forget :[[

[Roberta75]

I'm shocked at Aretha's terrible ticket sales during this tour. EVERY date is way behind projections and both Detroit and Chicago have discounted tickets heavily on Ticketmaster. Detroit lopped off 50% and it barely made a difference. With 2 weeks to go, Detroit added an additional 30% discount and it helped move some seats. $31.85 for orchestra seats and she still didn't sell out the main floor. Balcony was virtually empty. Now Chicago has, with the help of a huge discount, begun to sell better and is no longer an embarrassment, but still may lose money. Her one-night at Caesars Palace is only half sold and despite not offering the loge or balcony for sale at The Nokia, one night has been cancelled and the other is doing "disappointing" business according to a source at the venue. What's going on? Why isn't everyone going to see Queen Ree?

Well sold out or not Miss Franklin got a real nice review for her Detroit concert.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120623/ENT04/306230001/Aretha-Franklin-throws-down-Fox-Theatre

Roberta

[Glenpwood]

I love Aretha but the answer lies in several things pointed out already in this thread.

1) She works the same markets over and over, particularly the Northeast because its close to home and her fear of flying seems to keep her from her international fans which would really be the place for her to clean up ticketwise at this point. Get on a cruise ship and get to England would be my advice...

2) The economy is slowly improving with folks being a little more willing to spend money on a night out but eighty bucks is still a bit high for an artist who I've read in different forums usually gives you a 45 minute set padded out slighly longer by band instrumentals and a solo number from her son to make it seem like you got more Ree-Ree for the dollar. Granted, when booking a lot of dates back to back you have to preserve your voice but it can be misconstrued as shorting your fans who tell others of their disappointment not hearing Respect or Natural Woman.

3) No new album to promote or cause excitement. The last one died on the Walmart shelf from underexposure and faulty pressing issues. The Christmas album didn't do much better only being available at Borders. I know she makes more money being independent but the exposure she gets being on a major label like Arista helps since they will get the word out there to a point that there is new product coming or available.

4) I don't mention this to stir the pot but Aretha really upset a lot of folks by not appearing at Whitney's funeral for medical reasons then performing a full concert later that night. I'm not going to pass judgement on that issue but it certainly got her name dragged through the mud by the gossip rags and bloggers. Judging from the comments on a lot of forums it certainly alienated a lot of grieving folks.

So if you blend all these things together in my opinion you get closer to why the tickets aren't shifting like they should. I wish Aretha nothing but continued success as should everyone. Since she annnounced news of working with Clive Davis again I'm sure this is just a temporary blip and she'll be back to her winning ways shortly....

[jobeterob]

This is disappointing and a shame.

But Oz spelled it out; many Americans have lost a lot of money in house values the last few years. Jobs aren't that easy to come by for many.

The voices of these women are nowhere near what they used to be and Aretha may have had the best voice or one of the best ~ but hers has suffered a lot.

The hits are years back and as Jerry Wexler pointed out, there was only one platinum album at the time of issue - the Gospel Album. Aretha is much more a critics favorite, an artists favorite - she never really nailed the "performer" as Beyonce, Whitney and Diana did.

What gig did Glady lose in Vegas?

[skooldem1]

Aretha is one of my "must see" performers before it's too late. With that said, after her health scare last year, when everyone for a moment realized that she may not be here forever, I thought surely that would result in renewed interest.

[smark21]

The basic question, why aren’t Aretha concert tickets selling, is a very valid question. What provoked my ire was Motown Maniac [[he’s not kidding with that name) admitting to monitoring ticket prices, amount of ticket sales and what sections were empty, not just in one city, but three cities. From my vantage point, that’s obsessive. If he was connected with Aretha or the concert promoters, such a concern makes sense. I just find it pathetic that someone gets so worked up about ticket sales that they need to start monitoring the situation in such detail. Buy your tickets, go to the concert, enjoy the music and have a good time. And if you can’t go for whatever reason, hope that someone will have a good cam and will put some footage on youtube and enjoy some concert clips so you have an idea of what happened that night.

But to the main question at hand: Besides the recession, I think another reason why Aretha is not a prime concert draw is because over the years she’s developed a reputation as not being a great live act. I’ve never purchased a ticket to see her show because I’ve heard she runs hot and cold. I finally saw her live for the first time last summer at a free concert at Coney Island. I’m glad I saw her, but I do think she coasted at times, but then there were moments that were just musically brilliant. Now, I would pay to see Aretha in concert, but only at a jazz club or a church. Not a theater or a show room. It’s not that she’s a bad entertainer, but she’s really more of a musician, an artist and a singer for the Lord more than she’s an entertainer and I rather pay to see her in a venue where she might be inspired to be at the top of her game throughout the show, not just when inspiration hits.

[mr_june]

Groupon has a half price deal on tickets. I've never seen Aretha in concert and wish I could have when she was in her prime. I've seen Dione a few years ago [[with her son in tow) and she was no where near the singer she use to be understandably. One of her problems though is she's smoking again and that accounts for the husky tone she now has.

[motony]

yes, I think ciggarettes [[it was very cool to smoke in the 60's) has taken its toll on all my faves voices.As far as Aretha goes, it would depend on the venue & price to compel me to see her again as when I saw her a few years ago at the House of Blues in Orlando her song choice was really questionable to me... I mean she opened with "Uptight", I mean come on with all her hits she's singing others hits?

[jobeterob]

A 45 minute show from anyone would ensure that I wouldn't come back.

[reese]

The first few times I saw Aretha [[back in the 90s), she sang 60- 75 minutes, including a break. But most of the shows I've attended since then have been closer to the 90 minute mark.

Most of the time I leave satisfied. But there have been a few shows where Aretha dumped her own hits and sang MY HEART WILL GO ON and BEAUTY AND THE BEAST instead. Thank goodness there have only been a few of those. And to her credit, Aretha is one of the few artists who if I see her multiple times in a year, the show will change.

[jobeterob]

I would love to see Aretha Franklin; never have. And she is smart to change up the shows.

She should have got some counselling to allow her to deal with the flying issue; she probably still could. And that could open up areas she has never touched and give her a new life in her old age.

The only thing I have never understood about Aretha Franklin is that anger that occasionally surfaces; I can understand that she is "somebody" and expects to be acknowledged as a VIP; she does possess a voice that is amongst the very best ever; she is a Presley and a Streisand. But there are lots of good voices around.

But despite all she has, she has some strange traits, like not paying her bills for some reason. And the anger always goes with her and always surfaces; like over Tina Turner being called the Queen of Soul; I can recall Dick Clark 25 years ago rushing out to save a moment when Aretha got pissed "live" on some Awards show that she was presenting on. A lot of that probably goes back to things that happened in her childhood but so much of this she carried for an entire life ~ it makes it interesting but it may not be so much fun to live it. On the other hand, she outlasted Whitney Houston and Michael Jackson.

[marv2]

I'm shocked at Aretha's terrible ticket sales during this tour. EVERY date is way behind projections and both Detroit and Chicago have discounted tickets heavily on Ticketmaster. Detroit lopped off 50% and it barely made a difference. With 2 weeks to go, Detroit added an additional 30% discount and it helped move some seats. $31.85 for orchestra seats and she still didn't sell out the main floor. Balcony was virtually empty. Now Chicago has, with the help of a huge discount, begun to sell better and is no longer an embarrassment, but still may lose money. Her one-night at Caesars Palace is only half sold and despite not offering the loge or balcony for sale at The Nokia, one night has been cancelled and the other is doing "disappointing" business according to a source at the venue. What's going on? Why isn't everyone going to see Queen Ree?

The Recession is still very deep....especially in Detroit.

[ralpht]

Good point, Marv. I know the recession has been hurting concert sales the past couple of years.

[smark21]

Last summer, Aretha had a great turnout for the free concert at Coney Island [[well actually some seats were $5, but still a great price). It was packed all the way from the stage to the boardwalk.

[milven]

...What gig did Glady lose in Vegas?

She was performing at the Tropicana at the Tiffany Theater which was renamed the Gladys Knight Theater. At first, they said that her contract would be extended to the end of 2011, but then they rescinded the extension and said that her show would close at the end of October.

It didn't seem to hurt her. She was on DWTS and simultaneously appearing in concert. I saw her locally three times last month, and each venue was sold out. There were enough people in the local area for her to put on three shows in three different venues. Tickets were not cheap, so I don't think she has any career worries.

[jobeterob]

Could Gladys not sell enough tickets to keep going in Vegas or was something else going on.

I noticed Mary Wilson said she wanted a gig in Vegas as well but she appeared last year and that appearance did not sell well.

Maybe many people want a job in Vegas because they can just stay there and be comfortable.

[milven]

I guess it is ideal for the entertainer to have the audience fly in to see them , rather than for them to fly all over the country to find their audience. Cher and Bette also had extended runs in Vegas too. But, with the economy is bad and people are not traveling as much. Also, Vegas faces much competition now. People no longer have to travel to Vegas to lose their money. There are many places to gamble locally. Atlantic City is also facing some tough times because of the economy.

Back to Gladys. Her contract wasn't cancelled. She performed her entire contract obligation. She was then offered an extension and it was the extension that was rescinded.

[luke]

If most us arent a bit obsessive about Motown...then why are we here? Baseball fans know all kinds of minutiae as do we about sould music and Motown and do Beatles fans.... Why people get judged here of all places about music info is beyond me.

[jobeterob]

Nothing wrong with obsessing some about Motown; we dont need to be harsh and mean to any of the artists though; many of them have had the normal ups and downs of a life, hard times, lean times, bumps. But they were part of a fun time and ALL deserve the love and support of MOTOWN FANS.

Right?

[Jerry Oz]

Absolutely right. If you don't love them, no need to tell everybody how much you absolutely hate them. That is the biggest buzz kill on these boards sometimes.

[TheMotownManiac]

Aretha is one of my "must see" performers before it's too late. With that said, after her health scare last year, when everyone for a moment realized that she may not be here forever, I thought surely that would result in renewed interest.

I did as well. I'm too big of a fan to be totally objective, but I always have thought that anyone who liles Respect, would want to see her. Gladys, Diana, Dionne, Tina, Chaka, martha - none of them have a song as identifiable, or, perhaps, as big and well loved as Respect, so I just assumed Queen Ree would always be a big draw. I've seen her several times and will again next month.

[TheMotownManiac]

She was performing at the Tropicana at the Tiffany Theater which was renamed the Gladys Knight Theater. At first, they said that her contract would be extended to the end of 2011, but then they rescinded the extension and said that her show would close at the end of October.

It didn't seem to hurt her. She was on DWTS and simultaneously appearing in concert. I saw her locally three times last month, and each venue was sold out. There were enough people in the local area for her to put on three shows in three different venues. Tickets were not cheap, so I don't think she has any career worries.

Wow - where do you live? I'm jealous! Gladys' voice is still spot on!

[TheMotownManiac]

Could Gladys not sell enough tickets to keep going in Vegas or was something else going on.

I noticed Mary Wilson said she wanted a gig in Vegas as well but she appeared last year and that appearance did not sell well.

Maybe many people want a job in Vegas because they can just stay there and be comfortable.

Gladys' original deal was 8 months a year, open ended - expecting a similar drawing power like her great run at The Flamingo. Despite heavy promotion and discount tickets, it just didn't work this time, sadly.
Mary really needs The supremes name to sell in Vegas. The whole weekend I was there, the room was only half full and she was really unhappy about it. I wish she and Diana could get together, just to help out Mary & Cindy financially.

[TheMotownManiac]

If most us arent a bit obsessive about Motown...then why are we here? Baseball fans know all kinds of minutiae as do we about sould music and Motown and do Beatles fans.... Why people get judged here of all places about music info is beyond me.

I feel the same way. Even after Ralph said to end it, Smark continued his harsh, personal attack. How could we even know if Aretha wasn't selling, if we didn't check more than one show?

[antceleb12]

I remember seeing Aretha on DWTS a couple years ago. I was thoroughly disappointed in her performance, vocally. I thought, "OK, she could be sick," and didn't give much a second thought about it. But I saw more live performances of hers more recently and was, again, let down by the decline her voice has taken over the years. I think that many of her fans have realized that her voice doesn't have the same strength as did did 30 years ago, and probably don't wanna be reminded of how time has changed things - for both her and for them.

Though I have never been the biggest fan of Aretha, I have always wanted to see her live. But seeing these recent live performances have made me less enthusiastic about traveling and spending the cash to see a less-than stellar performance.

[ralpht]

I guess this thread has about played out, so I'll freeze it here before things get too ugly. All in all a rather interesting thread. Sorry to stop it.